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Author Topic: That Ain't Workin' - My New Book  (Read 3989 times)

OfflineChris W

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Re: That Ain't Workin' - My New Book
« Reply #60 on: April 14, 2025, 07:05:57 PM »

Did I ever say that ? No

Well you are, because you are thinking the book cost £5 to £8 to print and then saying I should sell it for £27.50 and make less profit.
So let's be honest here...
You are completely discounting (to £0) the man hours it took to produce, the cost of software, capture One, Photoshop, (In Design £22 a month and this is the only reason I needed it), the film scanning equipment, macro lens, 24mb digital camera.
Even just the exclusive nature of the photographs, never previously published, no other photographers embedded on the tour.
And you went to all the trouble of phoning your local book store?
This isn't a commercially published book. I'm doing it myself, I'm signing every copy, packing it and posting it at various local post offices.

OfflineChris W

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Re: That Ain't Workin' - My New Book
« Reply #61 on: April 14, 2025, 07:10:28 PM »

This is SO god damn fucking rude.

Thanks Dusty.
I get it, some people can't afford £55 for a book. I'm am immensely grateful for every purchase. I have printed a lot of books with my own money and if they didn't sell I'd be out of pocket.
But again, the gobsmacking thing is discounting the toil of one man to produce the work, not a team at a global publishers, not a pro photographer who spent a weekend on the road with Dire Straits. It represents over a year on the road taking photographs, then nearly two years since 2023.

Offlinevape68

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Re: That Ain't Workin' - My New Book
« Reply #62 on: April 14, 2025, 07:18:26 PM »

Did I ever say that ? No

Well you are, because you are thinking the book cost £5 to £8 to print and then saying I should sell it for £27.50 and make less profit.
So let's be honest here...
You are completely discounting (to £0) the man hours it took to produce, the cost of software, capture One, Photoshop, (In Design £22 a month and this is the only reason I needed it), the film scanning equipment, macro lens, 24mb digital camera.
Even just the exclusive nature of the photographs, never previously published, no other photographers embedded on the tour.
And you went to all the trouble of phoning your local book store?
This isn't a commercially published book. I'm doing it myself, I'm signing every copy, packing it and posting it at various local post offices.

Did I tell you to sell for raw costs ? No.
At £27.5 you would get a 70-80% profit margin which is really very good for any seller or any product,
I also thought the main point was to get your nice photographs to as many fans as possible, so that everybody wins.

Re the bookskop, I obviously asked if I wanted to print my own book 100 pages A4 black and white what's the cost and that was the answer, so same case as yours. I guess you don't want to answer what's your cost and that's fine.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2025, 07:20:30 PM by vape68 »

OfflineChris W

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Re: That Ain't Workin' - My New Book
« Reply #63 on: April 14, 2025, 07:23:49 PM »
The cost varies with the quality of the paper, whether it includes colour images or just B&W, the size of the book, the number of pages, the print run - how many you are ordering and paying for upfront.
I guess you went into all that detail when getting your £5 to £8 quote.

No I'm not telling you the cost of the print per book, because I haven't sat down and calculated all the hours I worked on the book, at what would you say £12.20 per hour (UK minimum wage)? Then the cost of the test prints I made at home, the scanning equipment, the software etc.
So unless you expect EVERYTHING but the actual print to come for free, I'd probably end up costing the book at £100 each based on the hours spent making it.

OfflineChris W

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Re: That Ain't Workin' - My New Book
« Reply #64 on: April 14, 2025, 07:25:47 PM »
It's like going into a restaurant and saying an onion costs 20c, how come your French Onion soup is $10on the menu.

Offlinevape68

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Re: That Ain't Workin' - My New Book
« Reply #65 on: April 14, 2025, 07:29:38 PM »
It's like going into a restaurant and saying an onion costs 20c, how come your French Onion soup is $10on the menu.

no, it's more like saying at $5 vs $10 you can sell many more and please many more fans. that's the only concept I expressed.

Onlinedustyvalentino

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Re: That Ain't Workin' - My New Book
« Reply #66 on: April 14, 2025, 07:32:58 PM »
Vape68, what country is this bookshop you phoned in? Could be much cheaper to print there than in the UK for one thing (not that I have any idea where Chris printed).
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

OfflineIngrained

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Re: That Ain't Workin' - My New Book
« Reply #67 on: April 14, 2025, 07:51:52 PM »
I worked as a photographer for many years and when I buy books from other photographers at galleries, they often cost more. Chris does not have to justify any cost, to anyone.

To question the amount of time or money put into the production is missing the point, however “well intended”. He wasn’t working for an hourly rate, nor should he or other artists have to justify costs in that way. He can charge what he likes. It’s a unique book that someone will VALUE themselves, if they want it.

I’ve felt before that some people on this forum also view all of DS work more as “consumables” and perhaps don’t seem to view them as creative works, made by all the creatives involved.

Chris has been realistic and upfront on getting things shipped, which should be enough in itself. It’s unfair to focus in on his shipping costs and potentially bog him down in admin, over a few quid. All of which is frankly beneath him in my view. On the contrary, he has gone out of his way to help.

From an archival perspective, Chris’ images are also a valuable record of that time. Film can degrade over the years, hence I questioned Ed last year on whether he knew if the unused Alchemy footage was all accounted for, as I feel that it would be prudent to have it all scanned at least for archival purposes, even if not to be released, akin to how a photo agency or museum would archive historic pieces, to avoid further degradation. Black and white film tends to be more stable, though colour film dyes can fade over the years depending on storage conditions. So, well done Chris for being proactive and getting your work collated and archived. It must have been a lot of work but I’m sure rewarding to hold the printed book in your hands.

Archiving the images is priceless.

Very well done on a beautiful looking book and getting it realised.

OfflineWaldo

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Re: That Ain't Workin' - My New Book
« Reply #68 on: April 14, 2025, 07:55:35 PM »

I shared the info on web, FB, Insta, X, and even LinkedIn

I hope it will give you more orders :)

Thank you so much.

Hi Chris,

Knew about it thanks to JF post on both his blog and LinkedIn.
I ordered it today and I'm looking forward to receive it.
It's me who asked you to send it to a UK adress as my best friend is currently there.
Will save me the 10£ postage  ;)

Greetings from Belgium

OfflineLove Expresso

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Re: That Ain't Workin' - My New Book
« Reply #69 on: April 14, 2025, 07:58:51 PM »
Chris must be admired to stand this fruitless discussion and patiently gives reflected answers instead of saying F#@k Off!

I want to say thank you for this new book, which comes totally unexpected. As I fully invested in RSD and the full monty of the BIA Jubilee (vinyl and Blu-Ray), I hope there might be some books left end of May/early June. It's a must-have from my point of view.

LE

I don't want no sugar in it, thank you very much!

Offlinevape68

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Re: That Ain't Workin' - My New Book
« Reply #70 on: April 14, 2025, 08:11:09 PM »
Vape68, what country is this bookshop you phoned in? Could be much cheaper to print there than in the UK for one thing (not that I have any idea where Chris printed).

Switzerland

Offlinevape68

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Re: That Ain't Workin' - My New Book
« Reply #71 on: April 14, 2025, 08:13:05 PM »
Chris must be admired to stand this fruitless discussion and patiently gives reflected answers instead of saying F#@k Off!

I want to say thank you for this new book, which comes totally unexpected. As I fully invested in RSD and the full monty of the BIA Jubilee (vinyl and Blu-Ray), I hope there might be some books left end of May/early June. It's a must-have from my point of view.

LE

CEOs spend weeks with their boards to select the right price for a product, it's the key to sell more and profit more,
I was trying to help Chris and also please more fans, the exact opposite of fruitless

Onlinedustyvalentino

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Re: That Ain't Workin' - My New Book
« Reply #72 on: April 14, 2025, 08:16:03 PM »
Vape68, what country is this bookshop you phoned in? Could be much cheaper to print there than in the UK for one thing (not that I have any idea where Chris printed).

Switzerland

Really.
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

OfflinePottel

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Re: That Ain't Workin' - My New Book
« Reply #73 on: April 14, 2025, 08:40:03 PM »
Isn't the cost of producing it just about £5-8 ? I think you should have kept the profit margin much much lower

Gotta love a forum!!!

Apart from the fact I spent many spare minutes taking the photos on the tour, instead of sitting in the dressing room sipping a beer. The fact it's taken me two years of work to make the book, which was mostly hours and hours of painstaking work cleaning hundreds of dust spots and scratches one by one on at least 100 images, using software like Capture One and Photoshop. The fact I paid for those software programme's monthly subscriptions for two years while I worked on the book.
The fact is took me four months of work to actually build the book in Adobe's InDesign, which I had no idea how to use in the beginning and spent hours watching Youtube tutorials and made many mistakers along the way..
And even THEN, the book does NOT cost £5-£8 to actually print.
I'm usually eating some of the postage, the shipping boxes cost £92 for the first 150 books. It took me all morning today to sign, pack, drive to the post office and half an hour in the post office filling in custom forms and going through the different nations the books would be going to with the man behind the counter. PayPal is deducting a £3 - £4 fee from most sales too (not all).
In the end, if you have a 106 page book with 80+ never seen before behind the scenes images of a beloved tour that took place 35 years ago, please make your OWN book and sell it for £10. Please do it - LOL
it is amazing how one tends to not notice all the praise one gets and gets stuck on trolls trying to annoy the hell out of you. (just noticing, not blaming) do not get all worked up about such moaning know-it-alls Chris.
he is NOT forced to buy your book, just like he is no way entitled to know the cost of your book. ignore is the message here
any Knopfler, Floyd or Dylan will do....

OfflinePottel

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Re: That Ain't Workin' - My New Book
« Reply #74 on: April 14, 2025, 08:45:49 PM »
Vape68, what country is this bookshop you phoned in? Could be much cheaper to print there than in the UK for one thing (not that I have any idea where Chris printed).

Switzerland
weird, your ip says otherwise...
any Knopfler, Floyd or Dylan will do....

 

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