Manu Katche speaks about working with MK

[rmarques821]

From 1:03:25

[hunter v2.0]

Nice. Not that I trust medical diagnostic skills, but he clearly suggested that Mark suffers from some degree of bipolar disorder. Interesting thought.

[TheTimeWasWrong]

Genius drummer! I've always loved his work with Gabriel and saw them live together. Didn't he and Mark drink a beer after the session and make amends? It reminds me of the story of Phil Palmer recording the OES outro for hours on countless Strats, and then Mark letting the engineer pick a take, more or less not caring about it. Btw the fill Manu plays at 4:48 - 4:52 is the best part of "Heavy Fuel" imho.

[ds1984]

Nice. Not that I trust medical diagnostic skills, but he clearly suggested that Mark suffers from some degree of bipolar disorder. Interesting thought.

Well this is more of a character description than a diagnostic.

Mark was not in an happy time in his own personal life and he had a lot of pressure with relaunching one last time Dire Straits.

What I am ignoring is what Mark was looking for while recording.

I mean he had something in the head and was failing to get it done the way he wanted to.

Quite an usual thing for a creative person after all.

[Chris W]

Mark was not in an happy time in his own personal life and he had a lot of pressure with relaunching one last time Dire Straits.
 

Again, I heard about Mark's 'difficult' character long before the OES sessions. Having worked with several big name artists I think it usually has more to do with selling millions of records, surrounding yourself with 'yes men' and thinking you are some kind of supreme being.

The relaunch of Dire Straits was entirely Mark's choice. Even John Illsley was shocked and surprised when the idea came up.
Manu is a world class drummer and it IS unusual for world class musicians to say they were so unhappy on a session they were minutes away from quitting.

[quizzaciously]

From 1:03:25

I don’t understand what was Manu’s problem, to be honest. Mark wanted to re-record a “perfectly recorded” drum track, and so what? Do you only re-record mistakes or failed tracks, or what? What if Mark just wanted a different sound? Is this prohibited?

Just from this short piece, I already feel like Manu is somewhat difficult to work with himself. Like, what’s your problem, dude? Just re-record the part, that’s all! We hired you to do that, right? Right? Too many takes? Tell it to actors who can do 100 takes.

And lol, it’s not bipolar, it’s called life. Life is a sine wave, and everyone will feel bad one day and better the other day. When you feel bad, mood swings are to be expected. I’ve been through troubled times in my life (and am currently going through one of those), and I must admit, sometimes (rarely), I wasn’t particularly kind to some people in very particular situations where they might be slightly wrong, and I overreacted. Shit happens!

Yours truly,
Devil’s Mark Knopfler’s advocate

[Robson]

"Yours truly,
Devil’s Mark Knopfler’s advocate"

 

[mariosboss]

Mark was not in an happy time in his own personal life and he had a lot of pressure with relaunching one last time Dire Straits.
 

Again, I heard about Mark's 'difficult' character long before the OES sessions. Having worked with several big name artists I think it usually has more to do with selling millions of records, surrounding yourself with 'yes men' and thinking you are some kind of supreme being.

The relaunch of Dire Straits was entirely Mark's choice. Even John Illsley was shocked and surprised when the idea came up.
Manu is a world class drummer and it IS unusual for world class musicians to say they were so unhappy on a session they were minutes away from quitting.

Exactly! I cannot believe many posters still try and doubt or question someone like Manu (or yourself on various other threads to be perfectly honest.) I've also read one or two interviews years back with Manu telling a similar story. In fact this one has a more positive vibe towards Mark!

What people have to also remember is context, and actually above all how Dire Straits/Knopfler helped the certain artist in the future... for example those former band members who have been able to tell their truths/stories without bias:

Kache: The Dire Straits/sessions didn't eleviate Manu... he continued to work with numerous top players... he can be as honest and open as he wants.
Yourself: Same as above in some respects... appreciate you would have been paid fairly well... but if anything as i've read from you in the past, it put you off the stadium / live / band tour set-up. Had you been involved with another band at that time you may have continued and earned more money or respect etc elsewhere and your trajectory could have been different.
Palmer: Top session musician, can be as open as he wants to be
David K: sadly

Musicians who felt an allegiance to Mark or held him key to their own career/success so therefore won't speak negative of him:
Guy: obvious reasons
John I: same as above
Terry Williams: didn't play in any established bands after, in fact he was very humble about being replaced by Omar Hakim during the BIA sessions, bless him. Probably thought that he had won the lottery playing in that huge world tour. Top Rock 'n Roll drummer but not Neil Dorfsman's go-to on the drums.
Hal: Probably earned more money from one of his tv musical compositions than in his time in Dire Straits, so probably sees the DS period as a key stepping stone. In fact i'm sure that i've read articles about this, and of course what with Ed's back-story Hal may have felt a tad embarrassed by it all so he has always come across as positive regarding his time with DS and MK. Let's be honest Mark gave him a chance and Hal took it but went on to be successful in his own right. Talented chap.

Jack Sonni just to add seemed to have had various views about his time with DS and MK. Both positive and sadly negative. God rest his soul.

Look, Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits especially the albums Making Movies, Love Over Gold and Brothers In Arms had a deep influence on me as a kid. I used to mime on my tennis raquet being Mark Knopfler, wearing a headband too. haha! Especially on the deeper cuts like Telegraph Road, Skateaway, It Never Rains, Man's Too Big... and as I grew older and got into slightly heavier music I probably unfairly dismissed the early days with Pick and the more subtle compositions and playing... I loved the On The Night era partly because of Chris's drumming and energy which was the perfect juxtoposition compared with Mark, John who aren't exactly the most liveliest of players. That's partly why I liked Jack Sonni (RIP), Hal, Joop. Also having been in bands (albeit amateur ones) I appreciate that it's not all plain sailing. I nearly quit music because of one particular band mate, and his negativity towards me.

I still appreciate Mark as a songwriter, guitarist and lyricist and i'm sure he has mellowed over time, but I can also imagine how difficult he was to work with. The test of a person is when the going gets tough. Like a football manager if you are winning matches and everything is fine then great but when you start losing that's when difficulties set in. You can still deal with those issues respectfully and lead a team without being a dictator.

[Jules]

I always wondered if in this alternative version, always called like "demo" (I'm not sure if it's really a demo) that in a bootleg was labeled as recorded in february 1992, is Jeff Porcaro playing:



Manu says Jeff's version had only two or three fills, this one doesn't have as much as Manu's version, but I don't know if that's enough to think this version is Jeff's one or not.

Maybe Ed would remember if he listened to it?

[Chris W]

I don’t understand what was Manu’s problem, to be honest. Mark wanted to re-record a “perfectly recorded” drum track, and so what?

Yeah, you don't understand. The problem Manu had with Mark was during the tracking of 'Planet Of New Orleans'.

Just from this short piece, I already feel like Manu is somewhat difficult to work with himself. Like, what’s your problem, dude? Just re-record the part, that’s all! We hired you to do that, right? Right? Too many takes? Tell it to actors who can do 100 takes.

Again, in desperately defending mark you've got the wrong end of the stick. Manu was not having a great day in the studio. Music is best made with joy and mutual respect right? So he's already experienced some bad vibes, then Mark asks him to re-record a track Porcaro had completed.
He doesn't refuse, he just tells Mark he thinks the Jeff version is perfect. Which is totally legitimate.
In fact when I heard 'Heavy Fuel' I totally thought it was Jeff playing on the track. It is very much different to Manu's usual way of playing.
When I've been on recording sessions and been presented with a song that is opposite to my way of playing I am upfront and honest with the artist and producer.
"You should probably hire someone else for this song". That is called being professional.
Manu is a renowned professional, known for being an amazing drummer and very nice guy.
It's probable he is a little sensitive and mostly worked with people who appreciated his talent and were positive towards him (Sting and Gabriel).
Apparently not Knopfler on this day.

[Chris W]

I always wondered if in this alternative version, always called like "demo" (I'm not sure if it's really a demo) that in a bootleg was labeled as recorded in february 1992, is Jeff Porcaro playing:

The OES version of 'Heavy Fuel' always sounded exactly like Jeff to me. It's a groove and song that are right up Porcaro's street.
I don't know what the problem was. Mark had changed his mind about something on the original recording. Jeff had flown back to America so they had to find someone else to track the drums.
It's weird to me when Manu says he just went 'crazy' on the drum performance. It sounds like a very simple drum performance to me. yes there are some fills but nothing that is out of the ordinary for this kind of sing.
Heavy Fuel is OES' Money For Nothing, but not as good.

[Chris W]

And FWIW, I always felt like Planet was the hardest song to pull off on the entire tour.
It's very slow, very long. The song is based around a synth loop (Korg Wavestation) that we all had to keep in time with. Not easy with 9 people on a very large stadium stage.
Heavy Fuel was probably the easiest song to play (for me). My style is very different to Manu. He is at home with that kind of Planet groove, I'm more at home with the straight ahead rock of Heavy Fuel.

[Chris W]

I still appreciate Mark as a songwriter, guitarist and lyricist and i'm sure he has mellowed over time, but I can also imagine how difficult he was to work with.

I think you hit the nail on the head in just about every way.
It's sobering to watch the various podcasts on Youtube - Pick Withers for example.
The churn of band members, for whatever reason. The lack of members at the Rock n Roll Hall Of Fame ceremony.
In my experience, it's usually toxic to exclude band members from album sessions. Props to Terry for doing the BIA tour with good grace after being rejected at the studio sessions.
Look, at the end of the day Mark can be as difficult (maybe unpleasant) as he wants to be. No problem.
It's also OK for people to talk about their experiences and not OK to contradict them based on fandom rather than actually being there.

[dustyvalentino]

Mark was not in an happy time in his own personal life and he had a lot of pressure with relaunching one last time Dire Straits.
 

Again, I heard about Mark's 'difficult' character long before the OES sessions. Having worked with several big name artists I think it usually has more to do with selling millions of records, surrounding yourself with 'yes men' and thinking you are some kind of supreme being.

The relaunch of Dire Straits was entirely Mark's choice. Even John Illsley was shocked and surprised when the idea came up.
Manu is a world class drummer and it IS unusual for world class musicians to say they were so unhappy on a session they were minutes away from quitting.

Exactly! I cannot believe many posters still try and doubt or question someone like Manu (or yourself on various other threads to be perfectly honest.) I've also read one or two interviews years back with Manu telling a similar story. In fact this one has a more positive vibe towards Mark!

What people have to also remember is context, and actually above all how Dire Straits/Knopfler helped the certain artist in the future... for example those former band members who have been able to tell their truths/stories without bias:

Kache: The Dire Straits/sessions didn't eleviate Manu... he continued to work with numerous top players... he can be as honest and open as he wants.
Yourself: Same as above in some respects... appreciate you would have been paid fairly well... but if anything as i've read from you in the past, it put you off the stadium / live / band tour set-up. Had you been involved with another band at that time you may have continued and earned more money or respect etc elsewhere and your trajectory could have been different.
Palmer: Top session musician, can be as open as he wants to be
David K: sadly

Musicians who felt an allegiance to Mark or held him key to their own career/success so therefore won't speak negative of him:
Guy: obvious reasons
John I: same as above
Terry Williams: didn't play in any established bands after, in fact he was very humble about being replaced by Omar Hakim during the BIA sessions, bless him. Probably thought that he had won the lottery playing in that huge world tour. Top Rock 'n Roll drummer but not Neil Dorfsman's go-to on the drums.
Hal: Probably earned more money from one of his tv musical compositions than in his time in Dire Straits, so probably sees the DS period as a key stepping stone. In fact i'm sure that i've read articles about this, and of course what with Ed's back-story Hal may have felt a tad embarrassed by it all so he has always come across as positive regarding his time with DS and MK. Let's be honest Mark gave him a chance and Hal took it but went on to be successful in his own right. Talented chap.

Jack Sonni just to add seemed to have had various views about his time with DS and MK. Both positive and sadly negative. God rest his soul.

Look, Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits especially the albums Making Movies, Love Over Gold and Brothers In Arms had a deep influence on me as a kid. I used to mime on my tennis raquet being Mark Knopfler, wearing a headband too. haha! Especially on the deeper cuts like Telegraph Road, Skateaway, It Never Rains, Man's Too Big... and as I grew older and got into slightly heavier music I probably unfairly dismissed the early days with Pick and the more subtle compositions and playing... I loved the On The Night era partly because of Chris's drumming and energy which was the perfect juxtoposition compared with Mark, John who aren't exactly the most liveliest of players. That's partly why I liked Jack Sonni (RIP), Hal, Joop. Also having been in bands (albeit amateur ones) I appreciate that it's not all plain sailing. I nearly quit music because of one particular band mate, and his negativity towards me.

I still appreciate Mark as a songwriter, guitarist and lyricist and i'm sure he has mellowed over time, but I can also imagine how difficult he was to work with. The test of a person is when the going gets tough. Like a football manager if you are winning matches and everything is fine then great but when you start losing that's when difficulties set in. You can still deal with those issues respectfully and lead a team without being a dictator.

Absolutely tragic that Terry never really played again. I loved his drumming, and I'm not even talking so much about DS, all those Rockpile (and adjacent) records, Girls Talk for example.

[quizzaciously]

Yeah, you don't understand. The problem Manu had with Mark was during the tracking of 'Planet Of New Orleans'.

Manu is a renowned professional, known for being an amazing drummer and very nice guy.
It's probable he is a little sensitive and mostly worked with people who appreciated his talent and were positive towards him (Sting and Gabriel).
Apparently not Knopfler on this day.

Of course, I noticed he was talking about one song while listening to a completely different song and describing going "crazy" with it without anything crazy about it at all, which confused everyone, yourself included. I'd say that's a perfect example when, even if you were there, which is your favourite argument, things aren't exactly clear sometimes because you were there 35-ish years ago.

I bet if you'd cue Mark or Neil in this part of the interview, they would describe what really has happened and how both Manu and Mark overreacted at the time. I still think Manu's problem, whatever that was, wasn't enough to justify calling working with Mark difficult or toxic. I'm sure Manu is a cool guy, and I love jazz and French musicians, I'm just not sold on the difficulty factor.

Okay, if Mark is difficult to work with and toxic, what about people who are notoriously incredibly difficult to work with? Like Van Morrison? Or Chuck Berry? I think Mark is a freaking saint compared to these guys.