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Author Topic: DS/MK Bootlegs sold in ordinary music shops  (Read 5453 times)

OfflineChris W

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Re: DS/MK Bootlegs sold in ordinary music shops
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2025, 10:00:31 AM »

Hum hum

When I started buying vinyl Bootleg a single LP was costing 50% more than an official LP and a double bootleg LP was almost twice the price a single bootleg LP.

I said 'merchandise' - key word.
Obviously people bought bootleg albums because they offered something not otherwise available.

OfflineChris W

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Re: DS/MK Bootlegs sold in ordinary music shops
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2025, 10:01:22 AM »

I guess Chris was talking about unauthorised t-shirts ("bootleg merchandise"), not about bootleg records which indeed are far mor expensive than regular stuff

Exactly!  :)

Offlineds1984

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Re: DS/MK Bootlegs sold in ordinary music shops
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2025, 10:35:40 AM »
My bad.

I never bought bootleg T-shirt but a few bootleg poster simply because they looked great.

For the official merchandising it was very expensive and thankfully wasn't really offering interestings things for me.
Still I used to buy the official program to keep a souvenir of the tour.
My only regret now is the golden heart but by the time I attended it was already sould out.

Edit : the Golden Heart I am speaking about refers to the jewelry not the tour book
« Last Edit: February 15, 2025, 11:23:41 AM by ds1984 »
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OfflineLove Expresso

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Re: DS/MK Bootlegs sold in ordinary music shops
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2025, 11:11:00 AM »
Yes tour programms..  great stuff and maybe a nice idea to reproduce them as a fan service item in future deluxe Box Sets.  I have a few but the real thing is of course that it reminds you that "you were there". Love the Golden Heart Tourbook, much information and great pictures.

LE
I don't want no sugar in it, thank you very much!

OfflineChris W

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Re: DS/MK Bootlegs sold in ordinary music shops
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2025, 11:53:45 AM »
On the McCartney tour (89/90) everyone got a free programme.

OfflineRobson

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Re: DS/MK Bootlegs sold in ordinary music shops
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2025, 12:02:15 PM »
Golden Heart Tourbook. The only one I don't have :(
I know the way I can see by the moonlight
Clear as the day
Now come on woman, come follow me home

OfflineKlaus74

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Re: DS/MK Bootlegs sold in ordinary music shops
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2025, 02:45:21 PM »
I mostly bought such tourbooks, because you will get interesting information and professional photos, sometimes a coffee-mug, some buttons, pins or key-rings. That is allright for me as a tour-souvenir. Same game with other artists, whose concerts i have attended. AC-DC for example had a lot of different merchandise-items for sale on their stands, some other artists, like Bob Dylan or ZZ-Top nearly nothing. I don´t really know if the artists themselves are always involved in the development of merchandise-articles, or not.
We are fools to make war

Onlinethe visitor

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Re: DS/MK Bootlegs sold in ordinary music shops
« Reply #52 on: February 22, 2025, 09:23:55 AM »
Some may find this article more useful background to the stuff I posted earlier in this thread regarding bootlegs

HOT WACKS BOOK SUPPLEMENTS

Legal Issues - The End?

BLACK FRIDAY

By John Carm

John Carr is the Editor of 'Sticky Fingers Magazine which is dedicated to the Rolling Stones and their music. John Can can be reached at Sticky Fingers, P.О. Вох 3474, Granada Hils, CA 91344 Send 54 for sample issue or $20 for a 1-year subscription

in the last week of January, Friday the 31st, the venerable Rolling Stones bootlegger Swingin' Pig (TSP) announced to their dealers That they were closing up shop permanent ly this time. Some on the internet saw this as a clever marketing ploy, since Swingin' Pig had shut down twice before, only to resurrect themselves once again. Others. Ike myself, saw it as the end of an ens

In the past few years the legal position of the bootleg industry has changed substantially since the Recording Industry Association of America's copyright noose tightened around The European Economic Union, ending the so-called Protection Gapi-a loophole which alowed the creation of an entire bootlegging market in a number of European countries In 1985 a German court decision (later upheld in 1990) said that, Under German Copyright Laws, foreign artists cannot claim protection in Germany against the sale of unauthorized recordings, if the performances take place in countries that are not signato nes to the Rome Convention. The US, due to pressure from the American Record Industry and their tool the Recording Industry Association of American (RIAA), never signed the Rome accord. And refused to accept it's validity over American music copy ights

A lawsuit brought by Phil Collins in Germany, regarding the bootleg CD of "Live USA" caused the intervention of a law court outside the national court system to decide whether the Treaty of Rome copyright protection for artists outside Germany should override local copyright laws, primanly protecting German artists. A judgment in late 1993 in favor of Phil Collins, meant that German Copynght taw now applied to all European Community artists, regardless of where the recordings took place thus, the sale of and manufacture of bootleg recordings became illegal in Germany, the home of Swingin' Pig records Fortunately, Swingin' Pig was actually based in Luxembourg (probably for just this contin gency), Italy, one of the most prolific bootlegging countries in the earty nineties, followed Germany in 1996, when the government (due to increased pressure hom the big labels and FRIAA) caused the SIAE the Tallan equivalent of ASCAP, which collects royalties for musicians) to stop collecting from live (read bootleg) CDs.

The Swingin' Pig and a few other intrepid labels moved to Luxembourg, where lax laws and a long history of relaxed copyright and banking laws, has allowed this tiny country to prosper. But the RIAA and it's lackeys have not let up. In early February of 1996, oficials in Luxembourg confiscated a number of new titles and even put a few imprints out of business. Thes increasing harassment, I'm sure, had much to do with Swingin' Pig's recent decision to finally close its doors.

This was verified by the following post on Sticky Fingers Joumal Issue 107, Feb. 11, 1997: "A very reliable source from Swingin Pig's home of Luxembourg stated that he did not know for sure why the Pig shut down all operations so suddenly, but is aware that they are currently facing customs problems in Luxembourg. He didn't come out and say it, but I read that to mean one thing if you can't ship your product out of the country (without having it seined), then your business is pretty much finished"

Hot Wacks. December 1997

OfflineChris W

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Re: DS/MK Bootlegs sold in ordinary music shops
« Reply #53 on: February 22, 2025, 09:50:36 AM »
Don't forget that for the most part bootleggers are profiting from musician's work and creativity....in a relationship where the creative musicians receive NO income.
As I said before..... I get it, fans want to hear bootleg concert tapes, but often bootlegs of official album releases are sold too.

Offlineds1984

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Re: DS/MK Bootlegs sold in ordinary music shops
« Reply #54 on: February 22, 2025, 11:57:02 AM »
in a relationship where the creative musicians receive NO income.
As I said before..... I get it, fans want to hear bootleg concert tapes, but often bootlegs of official album releases are sold too.

Hi Chris,

You are right but from my point of view two different markets.

I mean I use the word "bootleg" for illegal release of otherwise unavailable material

Countefeiting   official availalble stuff is just counterfeit. I know the law doesn't make the difference.

But we are not talking about official available material.

As Dire Straits did not issue their show on sale this money simply doesn't exist, bootleg or not. You have to understantd that this kind of bootleg is something  that the artist does not indented to sell and that was sold by someone else.

If the law had been respected these records would have never existed - simple as that and still $0 in the artist pocket.

The only thing is that the artist was seeing someone else making money with his music - that I admit is hurtful.


I bought the Atlanctic City bootleg because the Rolling Stones didn't put it on sale until a few years back.
And as a fan I did buy the official release. So in the end the artist got the money. And my only regret is all these wasted years while my hearing declined !!!. 
So for god sake stop saying artist are losing money on that.
Just put it out on the market and we will buy it.

But now the important question : CHRIS WHERE ARE THE F*CKING TAPES ? 

« Last Edit: February 22, 2025, 12:12:22 PM by ds1984 »
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OfflineChris W

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Re: DS/MK Bootlegs sold in ordinary music shops
« Reply #55 on: February 22, 2025, 12:11:57 PM »

So for god sake stop saying artist are losing money on that.
Just put it out on the market and we will buy it.

I always said it was a twofold issue.
As the creator of the art, the artist has the right whether to distribute it or not. When bootleggers sell live albums they aren't doing it for artistic, altruistic reasons, they are doing it because it makes them money. End of story.
OR, they would offer the tapes for free - like modern people do now, uploading live shows to Youtube.


Offlineds1984

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Re: DS/MK Bootlegs sold in ordinary music shops
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2025, 12:16:35 PM »
Just one example when the artist went smarter than the bootleggers : Wings Over America.

The musical industry should have learned from that.





« Last Edit: February 22, 2025, 12:37:39 PM by ds1984 »
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OfflineChris W

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Re: DS/MK Bootlegs sold in ordinary music shops
« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2025, 12:20:06 PM »
Was it not a standard live album?
Bands regularly release live albums from successful tours.
I think the move that outsmarted the bootleggers (or copyright infringers) was Mark's decision to allow digital downloads of his solo shows.

Offlineds1984

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Re: DS/MK Bootlegs sold in ordinary music shops
« Reply #58 on: February 22, 2025, 12:38:46 PM »
Nobody says that the bootlleger are there for altruistic reasons.

So let talk about money and artist and altruisty

The recording industry is also there to make money and many decisions are not "artistic" but only for the money.

How can I get happy when Mark Knopfler started to release his new album in multiple formats with music exclusive to the £100 super upper deluxe ?

Don't you think I felt betrayed like a squeezed citron ?

Where is the artistry in this ?

I was so happy to buy single with exclusive track but moving to the big box from Get Lucky onward, one later album with exclusive music a german download service or another exclusive to vinyle edition you had to buy two £100 box. Crazy!

Even if this not Mark himself that is behind that this is his name on the box. And this is the time I said stop to that dirty game - I am out!
« Last Edit: February 22, 2025, 12:54:39 PM by ds1984 »
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Offlineds1984

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Re: DS/MK Bootlegs sold in ordinary music shops
« Reply #59 on: February 22, 2025, 12:52:22 PM »
Was it not a standard live album?
Bands regularly release live albums from successful tours.
I think the move that outsmarted the bootleggers (or copyright infringers) was Mark's decision to allow digital downloads of his solo shows.

Wings Over America was meant to be a double album only but then a bootleg started to spread and it was the full show.

So decision was made to release Wings Over America now as a triple album featuring the full show  :clap

Without bootlegging industry WOA would only have been a 2 lp record  :think

Regarding Mark releasing his shows on downloads was a positive move.

And that say that he wasn't afraid to put live music with imperfection in his playing.


But the time I stopped to have to rely on buying  bootlegs was Internet and forum : fan sharing with fan. No more profit money involved.


The difference between the bootlegger time and the youtube time is that you really had to like the artist then to access this music.

The other thing now and I don't know how much it affects younger generation but I am from before the autotune time.
So imperfection was part of the game and was also something we liked and forgave.

Now that a generation has only known auto tune their approach of live music may be different.
I am very concerned that great bands such as the Eagles are faking their show.
But other did it since a long time. ZZ Top at least in the early 00's already did fake singing live on Legs...
« Last Edit: February 22, 2025, 01:00:52 PM by ds1984 »
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