Anachronism in the Luxembourg Bootleg 1983 and other discoveries

[rmarques821]

Brunno I was counting on your opinion in the Bootlegs thread I started a few weeks ago. But I was more concerned with good quality concerts recorded from a console. It would be fun to propose and arrange such a list with absolute bootleg classics that you must have.

But the topic didn't get much attention I don't know why

https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=8979.0

Because you were asking for soundboard bootlegs, which are very few and everyone knows them, so there isn't much to discuss.
As for audience tapes, that's another cookie. I mean, Vienna 83 or Stuttgart 85, for example, are as good as any soundboard concert.

[Robson]

Brunno I was counting on your opinion in the Bootlegs thread I started a few weeks ago. But I was more concerned with good quality concerts recorded from a console. It would be fun to propose and arrange such a list with absolute bootleg classics that you must have.

But the topic didn't get much attention I don't know why

https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=8979.0

Because you were asking for soundboard bootlegs, which are very few and everyone knows them, so there isn't much to discuss.
As for audience tapes, that's another cookie. I mean, Vienna 83 or Stuttgart 85, for example, are as good as any soundboard concert.

Right. I accept the argument Not necessarily a console but are as good as any soundboard concert.

Vienna 83 or Stuttgart 85   

[JF]

sometimes a sounboard recording can be worse than an audience one

for example Cleveland 85 has an awful sound/mix

[Brunno Nunes]

Brunno I was counting on your opinion in the Bootlegs thread I started a few weeks ago. But I was more concerned with good quality concerts recorded from a console. It would be fun to propose and arrange such a list with absolute bootleg classics that you must have.

But the topic didn't get much attention I don't know why

https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=8979.0

Because you were asking for soundboard bootlegs, which are very few and everyone knows them, so there isn't much to discuss.
As for audience tapes, that's another cookie. I mean, Vienna 83 or Stuttgart 85, for example, are as good as any soundboard concert.

I confess that I hadn't seen your topic, but I agree with what was mentioned here. If we are talking about audience bootlegs, there are precious moments that are worth gold in every tour, but, always subjective to each person's taste, on the other hand, there is a very interesting counterbalance which is the historical character that defines the importance of the event (bootleg), for example, Boston 79, or Roundhouse 78 because they have exclusive songs, which are rarely or never repeated like In My Car, Me and My Friends, Move it away, from (Birmingham Barbarella's, 4th July 1978), versions with curious errors like the version of Sultans of Swing, where Mark makes a curious mistake and manages to solve it in an interesting way with the band, present in the bootleg Copenhagen- 8.11.79, or the curious version of Solid Rock in Uniondale 1992 28.02.92 with the missing synthesizer introduction, in the format of the original formation, versions from 79... Anyway, these are some examples of what we can analyze.

[the visitor]

Always fascinated by your posts Brunno and detailed analysis of the audio...much appreciated 👏

[rmarques821]

Brunno I was counting on your opinion in the Bootlegs thread I started a few weeks ago. But I was more concerned with good quality concerts recorded from a console. It would be fun to propose and arrange such a list with absolute bootleg classics that you must have.

But the topic didn't get much attention I don't know why

https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=8979.0

Because you were asking for soundboard bootlegs, which are very few and everyone knows them, so there isn't much to discuss.
As for audience tapes, that's another cookie. I mean, Vienna 83 or Stuttgart 85, for example, are as good as any soundboard concert.

I confess that I hadn't seen your topic, but I agree with what was mentioned here. If we are talking about audience bootlegs, there are precious moments that are worth gold in every tour, but, always subjective to each person's taste, on the other hand, there is a very interesting counterbalance which is the historical character that defines the importance of the event (bootleg), for example, Boston 79, or Roundhouse 78 because they have exclusive songs, which are rarely or never repeated like In My Car, Me and My Friends, Move it away, from (Birmingham Barbarella's, 4th July 1978), versions with curious errors like the version of Sultans of Swing, where Mark makes a curious mistake and manages to solve it in an interesting way with the band, present in the bootleg Copenhagen- 8.11.79, or the curious version of Solid Rock in Uniondale 1992 28.02.92 with the missing synthesizer introduction, in the format of the original formation, versions from 79... Anyway, these are some examples of what we can analyze.

I'm pretty sure he was drunk during that Copenhagen gig. I remember an interview with him where he was refleting on the 78/79 period and said something like "doesn't matter whether you had too many pints in Denmark or ... "

[Brunno Nunes]

Always fascinated by your posts Brunno and detailed analysis of the audio...much appreciated 👏

The Visitor, I'm glad to know that you enjoyed this analysis, and I really try to delve as deep as possible to share this type of information with everyone who is interested in it. My intuition is to preserve the historical legacy of DS with maximum precision of the data and location of these registers. 

[Brunno Nunes]

Brunno I was counting on your opinion in the Bootlegs thread I started a few weeks ago. But I was more concerned with good quality concerts recorded from a console. It would be fun to propose and arrange such a list with absolute bootleg classics that you must have.

But the topic didn't get much attention I don't know why

https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=8979.0

Because you were asking for soundboard bootlegs, which are very few and everyone knows them, so there isn't much to discuss.
As for audience tapes, that's another cookie. I mean, Vienna 83 or Stuttgart 85, for example, are as good as any soundboard concert.

I confess that I hadn't seen your topic, but I agree with what was mentioned here. If we are talking about audience bootlegs, there are precious moments that are worth gold in every tour, but, always subjective to each person's taste, on the other hand, there is a very interesting counterbalance which is the historical character that defines the importance of the event (bootleg), for example, Boston 79, or Roundhouse 78 because they have exclusive songs, which are rarely or never repeated like In My Car, Me and My Friends, Move it away, from (Birmingham Barbarella's, 4th July 1978), versions with curious errors like the version of Sultans of Swing, where Mark makes a curious mistake and manages to solve it in an interesting way with the band, present in the bootleg Copenhagen- 8.11.79, or the curious version of Solid Rock in Uniondale 1992 28.02.92 with the missing synthesizer introduction, in the format of the original formation, versions from 79... Anyway, these are some examples of what we can analyze.

I'm pretty sure he was drunk during that Copenhagen gig. I remember an interview with him where he was refleting on the 78/79 period and said something like "doesn't matter whether you had too many pints in Denmark or ... "

It is possible, since at that time Mark was emotionally unwell and tense due to the breakup of his relationship with his girlfriend at the time, in the middle of the Communiqué tour. Interestingly, the versions are much more intense at that time than at any other time, I believe that he released his fury, or whatever his feeling was, in his performance, so it is true that this was reflected even in It Never Rains, the song emulates the echoes of that period, for me it is clear.

[Love Expresso]

People don't have to be emotionally unwell inevitably when they get pissed, especially when they are young or immature. I guess Mark was drunk or stoned on stage very often during the first couple of years until let's say 1982/1983. Werchter comes to mind or Rockpalast and others. After all those years following him I think I developed a pretty good eye for his mimic and behaviour. Also during the Alchemy Show more or less the complete band seems intoxicated, while for example the first TV Sultans BBC clip or Wembley Arena 1985 gig  show him sober and very focussed at work.

LE

[wayaman]

I appreciate a lot Bruno's investigations but I get lost very early...

Is there any conclusion?

[Love Expresso]

I appreciate a lot Bruno's investigations but I get lost very early...

Is there any conclusion?

Yes it's hardcore get-a-life material for sure
I was lost after the first two paragraphs, but that's just me.

LE

[JF]

Brunno is the master in finding accurate details among bootlegs and recordings 

I always learn many things reading his posts 

[Robson]

As you can see, there are many nuances and details that cover the universe of a Dire Straits tour, only in their songs I was able to point out some variables within the same tour, and I guarantee that I am summarizing, highlighting the most important points to show how I realized that there was something wrong, anachronistic with the recording Luxemburg 1983. Deals like these are spread throughout the tours in different ways and I have everything mapped out in my mind and typed files, where I put my analyzes and perspectives, for those who know One day, I can organize and give a broader destiny...   

I wonder how many more errors like this can there be from our favorite bootlegs 

[Brunno Nunes]

I appreciate a lot Bruno's investigations but I get lost very early...

Is there any conclusion?

I will repeat the conclusion I reached about the bootleg known as Luxembourg- 1983.05.30: This recording has all the characteristics of the songs that make up the following tour period:

11.05.1983 Ernst Merck-Halle Hamburg Germany
12.05.1983 Brondbyhalle Copenhagen Denmark
14.05.1983 Deutschlandhalle Berlin Germany
15.05.1983 Eissporthalle Kassel Germany
16.05.1983 Sporthalle Cologne Germany
18.05.1983 Stadthalle Vienna Austria
19.05.1983 Stadthalle Linz Austria
20.05.1983 Olympiahalle Munich Germany
21.05.1983 Festalle Frankfurt Germany

We have recordings of:

15.05.1983 Eissporthalle Kassel Germany
18.05.1983 Stadthalle Vienna Austria
19.05.1983 Stadthalle Linz Austria
20.05.1983 Olympiahalle Munich Germany
21.05.1983 Festalle Frankfurt Germany

So it is a recording from one of these dates:

11.05.1983 Ernst Merck-Halle Hamburg Germany
12.05.1983 Brondbyhalle Copenhagen Denmark
14.05.1983 Deutschlandhalle Berlin Germany
16.05.1983 Sporthalle Cologne Germany
22.05.1983 Eisstadion Mannheim Germany
23.05.1983 Hallenstadion Zürich Switzerland

But most likely it is a recording from 23.05.1983 Hallenstadion Zürich Switzerland, since we have the recording from the following night, 24.05.1983 Hallenstadion Zürich Switzerland and in it we can already see for the first time a bridge between PB and TOL. According to Pottel, there is someone in the audience speaking in a dialect that seems to be Swiss, which could be a clue that reinforces my perspective.

How did I come to this conclusion? I am so familiar with these bootlegs that I can easily identify patterns contained in the songs. I analyzed in depth how the band performed the arrangements of each song in each period of each tour from 78-92, so I mapped all these patterns. Based on this, I can easily identify that a bootleg with this date (05/30/1983) would have to have certain patterns in the songs of the setlist that corresponded to this period of the tour, which does not occur with the Luxembourg bootleg - 1983.05.30. This was cataloged incorrectly, it is a historical error, and went unnoticed until a crazy person like me came along and identified this detail. That is why I mentioned the anachronism, it has patterns of a show from a period that slightly precedes this date.

Basically that.

Conclusion:

I don't know exactly which recording is Luxembourg- 1983.05.30, but I'm sure it's actually one of these shows:

11.05.1983 Ernst Merck-Halle Hamburg Germany
12.05.1983 Brondbyhalle Copenhagen Denmark
14.05.1983 Deutschlandhalle Berlin Germany
16.05.1983 Sporthalle Cologne Germany
22.05.1983 Eisstadion Mannheim Germany
23.05.1983 Hallenstadion Zürich Switzerland

But most likely it's a recording of23.05.1983 Hallenstadion Zürich Switzerland, that's my guess. 

[Brunno Nunes]

The same thing happened on April 8, 2017, when I posted a thread here on the forum titled: "Deciphering a Bootleg Enigma "Paris 06/22/1983", a discussion that must have been especially interesting for bootleg collectors like me and so many others here.

https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=5824.0