Lindes sad departure (Ed's view?)

[Pottel]

no mr. B. i meant Hal went to see MK at the RAH. it may have been poorly construed but that IS what it says there ;-)

I think you are mixing up Phil with Hal ( your posts Jan 27 ).
I have no idea ( or interest) in what either does and haven’t claimed to.
 I don’t mind being corrected (at all ) but I only queried Phil “regularly” going there ( which HAS been corrected ) , I didn't mention Hal in that context.
Funnily enough the last time I saw Hal was one of the Cream reunion concerts in, I think, 2005  at the RAH, and we had a nice chat.
I hope that clears things up.

i do not stand corrected as i clearly meant Hal and not phil. but whatevs. thnx for your contious outreach to us get-a-lifers

[mariosboss]

Thank you so much to dustyvalentino for playing the "middleman" and a big thanks to Ed for his explanation. Really appreciate it. I think my cochroach metaphor was fairly rubbish. Apologies. Was trying to make out that you are just about indestructable.

Makes sense regarding the Hal departure and that it wasn't just totally straightforward / amicable. The Podcast I had listened to around 7/8 years ago was with Terry Williams and a random fan... but even the random fan seemed to think it warranted editing out Terry's explanation (whatever that was.) A shame really as that 1983 line up was my favourite (which lasted for about 12 months haha!) Be interesting to find out what Hal played on Love Over Gold exactly back in 1981/82, i've seen write-ups from various fans but that's all to do with their interpretation and what sounded like Mark's playing... or not...

Quite often artists are credited when they may have played on nothing, or the total opposite. I remember with a band called UFO back in the late 1970's (who Ed probably knows of) Keyboard/Guitarist Paul Raymond (who had left chicken shack) actually co-wrote a fair few songs from the 1977 album Lights Out and the follow up Obsession, yet due to contractual reasons and the fact he was under contract from previous management he was never credited on the songs... instead bass player Pete Way, not exactly known for his expansive song arrangements, took the credit. Yet even as a kid (before the internet) I had realised something was off / fishy.

Thanks also to Chris (who I used to read up on regarding his session work years ago.) A superb drummer for those OES gigs regardless of what has been said on these boards, a mammouth tour which would have been extremely tough mentally and physically... yet refreshing to hear his perspective even if sadly they weren't the best of times. Yes, perhaps not an upbeat read for Mark Knopfler fans, but a realistic one. I suppose that's the thing. I can't stand for biased chat. Even your rock heroes are flawed.

Strange as I'm writing this up listening to Julian Cope's superb pop classic "World Shut Your Mouth..." a session Chris apparently played drums on back in 1987.

[kempston_joystick]

Totally agree - Thanks to Chris and Ed for participating here. This band means/meant a lot to us, I'm not sure all of the posters appreciate how valuable and unusual it is to get first-hand management and musician perspectives on fan forums.

[Billy’s Tune]

I’ve been listening to Jack’s podcast about meeting a cold distant MK in LA and also reading Mr Ed’s brilliant input re Hal. One of the reasons for Hal’s departure was musical difference, namely he wanted to play some lead.
But Jack also references his chat with MK as to how they really developed their guitar interplay during the brothers tour and Jack saying we could do so much more of this.

So part of him not being called back was because mark wanted to take the band in slightly different direction, maybe less guitar and less guitar interplay (and that’s fine, he could have said that). But did M also see Jack as maybe getting too big for his boots in the same way Hal did, and so he was toast after that? We know M was rather a control freak so someone else trying to have input, even if it was a mate, might not have landed too well.

Just a thought.

[Chris W]

There was plenty of 'guitar interplay' on the OES tour, mostly with Paul Franklin.
Not that I ever really take Mark's side on band politics, but I do think it's stretching things to join a band with a world class song writer and guitarist and push to co-write songs and ask for more exposure as a guitarist.
As I've said multiple times, 99% of hired musicians know their place. We are there to support the main artist, and most of us are happy to do that and enjoy the experience.

[vgonis]

And all these years I thought I was a big fan... I never imagined that there was such a background. I took all these changes for granted.  It saved me so much time, not knowing. I always thought it was just plain character mismatch, not needing further justification,  and as Mr. B and Mr.W  explained, it  was exactly that. Too much time to find out that the human condition stands even for people in the spotlight. I felt a bit dirty knowing the details though. Or maybe it was a guilty pleasure?   

By the way, I bought the John Illsley book, but reserve it for a more relaxed time to enjoy, so I was not aware of any of this. In the meantime I read the very nice book by Stuart David, about the formative year of Belle and Sebastian "In the All - night cafe". A nice story, about young people during the formation of a band. It is written in such a way it could have been fiction, and that made it a joy to read.   

[Chris W]

When you join a band you are all usually strangers. It was no different when Terry Williams joined, or Alan Clarke.
You may know some members in passing, or have worked with them briefly (like one an album session).
It is very difficult to tour with strangers. You see each other every day, almost all day, for months on end.
That's exactly why successful side-persons are extremely polite and easy going, with few or no personal issues.
Being late for hotel lobby departure gets annoying very quickly, especially when everyone is tired and made the effort to get out of bed early enough to be on time. Not bathing is annoying when you are cooped up on a bus or van all day.
So, being the right musician for the job is just one part of the equation. And personal attributes is another factor why side-persons come and go so often.

[wayaman]

Who was not bathing?

Is it a general remark or something that happened and with one person or two being pointed out?

[Chris W]

I have toured with multiple artists since 1984. It happens from time to time.
It was a general remark about why people come and go in bands.The cliche is it is like being married to a stranger.
You live in each others pockets. It can be tough. It is more than just being able to play the songs well.

[Pottel]

I have toured with multiple artists since 1984. It happens from time to time.
It was a general remark about why people come and go in bands.The cliche is it is like being married to a stranger.
You live in each others pockets. It can be tough. It is more than just being able to play the songs well.

dissapointing answer, lol, had so hoped to see a name :-) (and also had 1 in mind)

[wayaman]

I have toured with multiple artists since 1984. It happens from time to time.
It was a general remark about why people come and go in bands.The cliche is it is like being married to a stranger.
You live in each others pockets. It can be tough. It is more than just being able to play the songs well.

dissapointing answer, lol, had so hoped to see a name :-) (and also had 1 in mind)

Naughty Pottel... Lol

[Chris W]

dissapointing answer, lol, had so hoped to see a name :-) (and also had 1 in mind)

It was obviously a general comment and NOT applicable to anyone on the 'OES tour'.

[dustyvalentino]

I was listening to an interview with Andy Fairweather-Low and he was saying that a lot of Clapton fans were in disbelief when he was hired ahead of "better" guitar players. He made the point that you are onstage for two hours but the rest of the time you need to be a good guy to hang about with, and that's why he kept getting hired.

[ds1984]

I heard a muso saying about before accepting touring, you must tick at least two out of the three requirements :

- how much it pays
- how good is the human relationship
- how appealing is the music you are playing

[Chris W]

I saw that before and agree. You can just about manage with two of the three. Only one....no.
I think Gregg Bissonette (drummer with David Lee Roth, Ringo) says being a 'good hang' is 80% of getting the gig.
Reality is there are probably hundreds of musicians good enough to play second guitar in Dire Straits......or drums.