Rough and Rowdy Ways

[Vesper]

The whole debate is more subjective than anything else.
In the end, there is room in culture for multiple 'masters' of popular music.
The acid test is the 'test of time'.
How many of Mark's records will be listened to in 50 years time? In the case of The Beatles, we know it's A LOT.

Absolutely, it’s all subjective but at the end of the day all any of us can do is express our opinion so it’s fun to discuss.

Sultans of Swing is coming up for 50 years and it still gets played a LOT.

SOS definitely stands the test of time.
Look at this: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C-dEOibM1Uu/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[Pottel]

The whole debate is more subjective than anything else.
In the end, there is room in culture for multiple 'masters' of popular music.
The acid test is the 'test of time'.
How many of Mark's records will be listened to in 50 years time? In the case of The Beatles, we know it's A LOT.

Absolutely, it’s all subjective but at the end of the day all any of us can do is express our opinion so it’s fun to discuss.

Sultans of Swing is coming up for 50 years and it still gets played a LOT.

SOS definitely stands the test of time.
Look at this: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C-dEOibM1Uu/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

that lady though, classy...

[Pottel]

Note that all around always stress out how "prolific" he is
 That's mainly about the numbers of songs, not the quality. It's not enough to write about anything that crosses your path or cranks your traktor like books, overheard remarks and stuff. It has to be applicable for the audience in one way or the other.

LE

I really don't know, man. I remember Bob Dylan coming to Russia with a show and it was some kind of a disaster... The majority of people here simply don't speak English and don't understand the lyrics that much, and without lyrics Bob is absolutely irrelevant I'm afraid. It's like watching a dubbed movie in a foreign country and trying to understand what's happening.

On the other hand, Mark toured Russia in 2001, 2005, and 2008 and cancelled his shows in 2013 (I'm sure he'd play there more if politics allowed) and had a success. His music is more universal, besides, as I've said he's a guitar player which brings another dimension to the audience. In fact, I first came to his show to hear a guitar player, not a songwriter.

What about these legendary artists with "first album of original material" in 10, 20 years? I usually listen to them once and say "meh". Mark, on the other hand, will always produce a song that you will love, doesn't matter if it's about goulash, a quality shoe or a crime, and it will be original. What about Sir Van Morrison? I don't know what happened to him, but he seems to produce 5 records a year and they are full of covers.

do you mean the time he was invited to russia to perform at a poetry event, sometime in the 80ies? just read an interesting blog post on that...

[stratmad]

Thank you! BJ and MK seem to be enjoying it :-)

[quizzaciously]

Note that all around always stress out how "prolific" he is
 That's mainly about the numbers of songs, not the quality. It's not enough to write about anything that crosses your path or cranks your traktor like books, overheard remarks and stuff. It has to be applicable for the audience in one way or the other.

LE

I really don't know, man. I remember Bob Dylan coming to Russia with a show and it was some kind of a disaster... The majority of people here simply don't speak English and don't understand the lyrics that much, and without lyrics Bob is absolutely irrelevant I'm afraid. It's like watching a dubbed movie in a foreign country and trying to understand what's happening.

On the other hand, Mark toured Russia in 2001, 2005, and 2008 and cancelled his shows in 2013 (I'm sure he'd play there more if politics allowed) and had a success. His music is more universal, besides, as I've said he's a guitar player which brings another dimension to the audience. In fact, I first came to his show to hear a guitar player, not a songwriter.

What about these legendary artists with "first album of original material" in 10, 20 years? I usually listen to them once and say "meh". Mark, on the other hand, will always produce a song that you will love, doesn't matter if it's about goulash, a quality shoe or a crime, and it will be original. What about Sir Van Morrison? I don't know what happened to him, but he seems to produce 5 records a year and they are full of covers.

do you mean the time he was invited to russia to perform at a poetry event, sometime in the 80ies? just read an interesting blog post on that...

Yeah, I saw this article too. It's quite remarkable how the "iron curtain" wasn't so iron after all. We've got all sorts of celebrities here, David Bowie travelling in Siberia on Soviet trams and all that, Arnold filming movies, then Yevtushenko and Brodsky would end up working in the US. We've got jazz, many bands copying The Beatles, all music imaginable available. But still, it's not a surprise Bob only performed in Russia once. Technically, twice — this "event" in the 80s and 2008 show. The language barrier is no joke!

[dustyvalentino]

One of the first US films to be made in Russia after the iron curtain fell...

[quizzaciously]

One of the first US films to be made in Russia after the iron curtain fell...

It all happened even long before the fall of the Iron Curtain. All sorts of celebrities, Sophia Lorens and Robert De Niros of this world visited, and foreign movies were being made. Everybody who needed to know who Bob Dylan was, knew his work, famous Soviet poets were known worldwide and you could find the Yevtushenko reference on one of Bob Dylan's LPs.

Ah, I can't stop crying about this period as we've lost everything. There's an enormous (and very, very good) museum in Russia I visited recently that's mostly about this time (the 80s and 90s) and I couldn't stop crying, these were happy and fruitful times compared to today. No Bob Dylan or Robert De Niro for the next 50 years I'm afraid. History repeating.

[dustyvalentino]

Yes, but nothing of the quality level and prestige of Police Academy 7: Mission to Moscow.

[Pottel]

One of the first US films to be made in Russia after the iron curtain fell...

It all happened even long before the fall of the Iron Curtain. All sorts of celebrities, Sophia Lorens and Robert De Niros of this world visited, and foreign movies were being made. Everybody who needed to know who Bob Dylan was, knew his work, famous Soviet poets were known worldwide and you could find the Yevtushenko reference on one of Bob Dylan's LPs.

Ah, I can't stop crying about this period as we've lost everything. There's an enormous (and very, very good) museum in Russia I visited recently that's mostly about this time (the 80s and 90s) and I couldn't stop crying, these were happy and fruitful times compared to today. No Bob Dylan or Robert De Niro for the next 50 years I'm afraid. History repeating.

i understand. also, i see you are back home?

[quizzaciously]

One of the first US films to be made in Russia after the iron curtain fell...

It all happened even long before the fall of the Iron Curtain. All sorts of celebrities, Sophia Lorens and Robert De Niros of this world visited, and foreign movies were being made. Everybody who needed to know who Bob Dylan was, knew his work, famous Soviet poets were known worldwide and you could find the Yevtushenko reference on one of Bob Dylan's LPs.

Ah, I can't stop crying about this period as we've lost everything. There's an enormous (and very, very good) museum in Russia I visited recently that's mostly about this time (the 80s and 90s) and I couldn't stop crying, these were happy and fruitful times compared to today. No Bob Dylan or Robert De Niro for the next 50 years I'm afraid. History repeating.

i understand. also, i see you are back home?

Yup... I'm all over the place though.

[Rail King]

Ah, I can't stop crying about this period as we've lost everything. There's an enormous (and very, very good) museum in Russia I visited recently that's mostly about this time (the 80s and 90s) and I couldn't stop crying, these were happy and fruitful times compared to today. No Bob Dylan or Robert De Niro for the next 50 years I'm afraid. History repeating.

History repeating -- or coming back from hell, as one songwriter put it.

There's are a number of questions I'd love to ask you, Pavel, but 1) they don't have anything to do with MK, so this is hardly the right place for them, and 2) I wonder if I might even put you in danger by discussing them with you.

[quizzaciously]

Ah, I can't stop crying about this period as we've lost everything. There's an enormous (and very, very good) museum in Russia I visited recently that's mostly about this time (the 80s and 90s) and I couldn't stop crying, these were happy and fruitful times compared to today. No Bob Dylan or Robert De Niro for the next 50 years I'm afraid. History repeating.

History repeating -- or coming back from hell, as one songwriter put it.

There's are a number of questions I'd love to ask you, Pavel, but 1) they don't have anything to do with MK, so this is hardly the right place for them, and 2) I wonder if I might even put you in danger by discussing them with you.

First of all, thank you for caring! There's not much to discuss really as your guesses are as good as mine, despite me living in the middle of it all.

I'll just say I try my best to be safe.

[Rail King]

Here's an interesting link to round this thread off, on Dylan's production over the years: https://talkinbobdylan.blogspot.com/2020/11/producing-bob-dylan.html?m=1

My guess is that while Dylan seems to have had very clear ideas of who should play what and how, he didn't care too much about how it was recorded, and the engineer Chris Shaw may have played a major role in shaping that gorgeous sound of his latest albums.

[Love Expresso]

https://talkinbobdylan.blogspot.com/2020/11/producing-bob-dylan.html?m=1

This is a great read.

LE

True. 

LE

[Robson]

I thought maybe not everyone has fb and in the context of Bob Dylan's album, David Knopfler's words would be interesting.

DK:

I think it has to be said. I have most, if not all, of Bob Dylan’s official studio albums. The last track I really thought was up to his best was a track called “Mississippi” - great song - great production- great delivery - and that was released over two decades ago in 2003.
Since then his touring voice has gone from bad to worse and his writing isn’t really what it was either. I simply can’t watch any more YouTube clips of him murdering his own material. He’s not reinventing - he’s failing to remember.
Dylan isn’t alone in this journey and it’s entirely up to him anyway I suppose and of course the fans will likely show up regardless. I concede it’s a good thing that old musicians feel able and willing to still tread the boards past their prime, but doesn’t there ever come a point where retirement might be the kinder option for all concerned? I don’t know - I’m asking. Where is the cut off point when the demand will continue regardless of the quality of their output while the artist still breathes