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Author Topic: Rough and Rowdy Ways  (Read 9273 times)

OfflineRobson

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Re: Rough and Rowdy Ways
« Reply #75 on: August 29, 2024, 12:36:49 PM »
"...I am one of the dying breed that still own a CD system, and it is fantastic, I always buy CD's and will continue to do so as long as they are available to buy"

 :thumbsup
Me too :)
I know the way I can see by the moonlight
Clear as the day
Now come on woman, come follow me home

Offlinestratmad

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Re: Rough and Rowdy Ways
« Reply #76 on: August 29, 2024, 12:51:10 PM »
"...I am one of the dying breed that still own a CD system, and it is fantastic, I always buy CD's and will continue to do so as long as they are available to buy"

 :thumbsup
Me too :)

Same. Just opening the jewel case of a new MK record and holding the booklet in your hands is a special moment. Then press play and listen to the whole album :-)
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Something from the past just comes and stares into your soul...

OfflineRobson

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Re: Rough and Rowdy Ways
« Reply #77 on: August 29, 2024, 01:16:48 PM »
"...I am one of the dying breed that still own a CD system, and it is fantastic, I always buy CD's and will continue to do so as long as they are available to buy"

 :thumbsup
Me too :)

Same. Just opening the jewel case of a new MK record and holding the booklet in your hands is a special moment. Then press play and listen to the whole album :-)

Exactly! It's always an exciting moment:)
I know the way I can see by the moonlight
Clear as the day
Now come on woman, come follow me home

OfflineRail King

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Re: Rough and Rowdy Ways
« Reply #78 on: August 29, 2024, 05:19:36 PM »
I’m a fan but I’m also a realist.

Dire Straits are my favourite band but I would never try to argue that they were the greatest band ever.

I was wondering why you were reluctant to call MK a "master". I thought you were referring to his abilities as a songwriter and musician. Not about how "big" his band was. I have zero interest in that. Big doesn't equal good, just like some NME-overhyped small band isn't necessarily good.

OfflineRail King

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Re: Rough and Rowdy Ways
« Reply #79 on: August 29, 2024, 05:26:19 PM »
And back to the fantastic sound of Dylan's latest albums. I'm not sure it's really the studio that is to praise or to blame (although I agree that Shangri-La sounds great). I guess Dylan's team could record a fantastic-sounding album in British Grove. I'm not sure what they do differently, but they've definitely been on to something from Oh Mercy onwards. Production geniuses like Blake Mills or Daniel Lanois certainly played a role, but my favourite in terms of sound is Love and Theft, with no famous producer on board. It's a mistery to me ...

Mark's albums still sound much better than most other artists, but I agree that they don't sound as great as Dylan's.

OfflineRobson

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Re: Rough and Rowdy Ways
« Reply #80 on: August 29, 2024, 05:58:10 PM »
"...Love and Theft, with no famous producer on board. It's a mistery to me ...

Producer: Jack Frost. Dylan's pseudonym:)
I know the way I can see by the moonlight
Clear as the day
Now come on woman, come follow me home

Offlinedmg

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Re: Rough and Rowdy Ways
« Reply #81 on: August 29, 2024, 06:44:24 PM »
And back to the fantastic sound of Dylan's latest albums. I'm not sure it's really the studio that is to praise or to blame (although I agree that Shangri-La sounds great). I guess Dylan's team could record a fantastic-sounding album in British Grove. I'm not sure what they do differently, but they've definitely been on to something from Oh Mercy onwards. Production geniuses like Blake Mills or Daniel Lanois certainly played a role, but my favourite in terms of sound is Love and Theft, with no famous producer on board. It's a mistery to me ...

Mark's albums still sound much better than most other artists, but I agree that they don't sound as great as Dylan's.

I think there's a certain romanticism to having all these old and historic analogue mixing desks and other bits and bobs, and if that tickles his fancy then good for him.  As a layman I don't understand how it brings any benefits to sound quality when other records have sounded so good without such pieces of equipment.  I also don't understand why they want recordings to sound like albums recorded in the 1960s.  Surely we've come a long way since then in terms of fidelity.  They can boast about it all they like but I think BG is just a musos playground and that's why the records take so long to cut in there.
"...and I blew up the radio in pretty short order."

Offlinestratmad

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Re: Rough and Rowdy Ways
« Reply #82 on: August 29, 2024, 07:03:46 PM »
I couldn't agree more!
Yes, I can certainly see the need for authentic old instruments and amps, but what's the point of recording on tape and then mixing it digitally, unless you deliberately want the background noise for some 1940s-style jazz recording? And even that can probably be generated "on top" in the mix afterwards.
Maybe it's really just a nostalgia thing, like driving a vintage car. It's just the thrill of having the real thing, even if it's uncomfortable as hell, costs a lot of money and keeps breaking down all the time. 🤣
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Something from the past just comes and stares into your soul...

OfflineLove Expresso

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Re: Rough and Rowdy Ways
« Reply #83 on: August 29, 2024, 07:19:23 PM »
I couldn't agree more!
Yes, I can certainly see the need for authentic old instruments and amps, but what's the point of recording on tape and then mixing it digitally, unless you deliberately want the background noise for some 1940s-style jazz recording? And even that can probably be generated "on top" in the mix afterwards.
Maybe it's really just a nostalgia thing, like driving a vintage car. It's just the thrill of having the real thing, even if it's uncomfortable as hell, costs a lot of money and keeps breaking down all the time. 🤣

Recording on tape is mainly used for bass and drums section to get a recording with more punch. It is certainly not done to get background  noises. (However, they achieve that with using GZ Media for pressing their vinyls..)

LE
I don't want no sugar in it, thank you very much!

Offlinestratmad

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Re: Rough and Rowdy Ways
« Reply #84 on: August 29, 2024, 10:13:22 PM »
I couldn't agree more!
Yes, I can certainly see the need for authentic old instruments and amps, but what's the point of recording on tape and then mixing it digitally, unless you deliberately want the background noise for some 1940s-style jazz recording? And even that can probably be generated "on top" in the mix afterwards.
Maybe it's really just a nostalgia thing, like driving a vintage car. It's just the thrill of having the real thing, even if it's uncomfortable as hell, costs a lot of money and keeps breaking down all the time. 🤣

Recording on tape is mainly used for bass and drums section to get a recording with more punch. It is certainly not done to get background  noises. (However, they achieve that with using GZ Media for pressing their vinyls..)

LE

Hey, they made that one specially for you!  :lol
Ok, I didn't know that. Why would you get more punch with a tape?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Something from the past just comes and stares into your soul...

Offlinedustyvalentino

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Re: Rough and Rowdy Ways
« Reply #85 on: August 30, 2024, 12:10:57 AM »
I’m a fan but I’m also a realist.

Dire Straits are my favourite band but I would never try to argue that they were the greatest band ever.

I was wondering why you were reluctant to call MK a "master". I thought you were referring to his abilities as a songwriter and musician. Not about how "big" his band was. I have zero interest in that. Big doesn't equal good, just like some NME-overhyped small band isn't necessarily good.

I was talking about MK as a songwriter, not about record sales.

He is (was) a master of the guitar.

But for songwriting, no. There’s a top tier, Dylan, McCartney, Simon, the guys from ABBA, Bacharach and David. MK’s not on the top tier for me.

Funnily enough, the Nile Rodgers ep of MK’s and BJ was on tv last night. MK called him the funkmeister and Nile said that no, he was still an apprentice. Nile gets it. :)
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

OfflineLove Expresso

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Re: Rough and Rowdy Ways
« Reply #86 on: August 30, 2024, 01:05:51 AM »
Carole King, Joni Mitchell? But I agree.

LE
I don't want no sugar in it, thank you very much!

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Rough and Rowdy Ways
« Reply #87 on: August 30, 2024, 10:16:54 AM »
Carole King, Joni Mitchell? But I agree.

LE

But for songwriting, no. There’s a top tier, Dylan, McCartney, Simon, the guys from ABBA, Bacharach and David. MK’s not on the top tier for me.

Man, I miss the times when songs were written by groups of people and performed by others. I think we need to define what a "songwriter" is first. A songwriter is a person who writes songs, and a song consists of melody, lyrics (poetry) and music (arrangement) for the performing of said song, which in older days was all done by different people.

If we assign points to every "all-inclusive" songwriter, we'll see how Dylan is definitely a better poet than all the rest, McCartney is a better singer and melodist, and ABBA guys are the masters of hooks and arrangement, though you can hardly give them the Nobel prize in literature, just like Dylan is not somebody I'd say is a virtuoso musician.

The strength of Mark is that he's good at literally everything: his lyrics are interesting, full of wit and wisecracks, deep and melodic, and most importantly — memorable. Not Nobel prize worthy, but worthy of analysis by smart people and singing in the shower, which is good enough in my book.

He's got plenty of decent melodies that suit his lyrics perfectly. Not to the level of the best melodists out there, not even close, but you gotta love songs like "A Night In Summer Long Ago" and other melodic material from Mark.

His arrangement skills are top-notch because it's hard to come up with covers for his songs and not make it worse. After all, he tried everything to come up with the best arrangement, best instrumentation and singer choices for his songs and there are not a lot of covers because it's really difficult to make it better or even different.

And then he tops it all off with virtuoso chops, the second voice, a secret weapon and language everybody understands — guitar licks and improvisation, tasteful solos and intricate rhythm work. Again, not on the level of the best out there, though enough to worry about (ask me how I know).

Then there's singing, producing, recording, casting musicians, stage presence, commercial success, writer's block, and a plethora of nuances where MK gets high points across the board.

If you combine ALL this, then Mark is not only in the top tier of songwriters, but in my humble opinion, might rightfully be on the very top of it as an ultimate "whole package" musician, which is proven by universal admiration of his work, praise from peers, commercial success and the existence of this very forum.

Offlinedustyvalentino

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Re: Rough and Rowdy Ways
« Reply #88 on: August 30, 2024, 10:22:02 AM »
worthy of analysis by smart people 

This would be the criteria that would interest me least. Besides, where are these smart people who are analysing his songs? Seems to me it's just us.  ;)
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

OfflineChris W

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Re: Rough and Rowdy Ways
« Reply #89 on: August 30, 2024, 10:24:12 AM »
Vintage gear....

By and large most vintage gear still being used is the cream of what was originally available. To be still used it has stood the test of time.
Vintage instruments have the most impact on the player, not the listener. I have a 1960's Camco drum set. It sounds bigger, warmer than any modern drum set. By the time it's been recorded, mixed, mastered into digital it doesn't sound much different to modern drums, BUT, it impacts the way I play on the original performance and it is quicker to get sounding great, rather than having to tinker with modern drum, add fx etc...

I have recorded drums through an original EMI console (like the one Mark owns). I was gobsmacked. My drums sounded huge, larger than life, without any other fx being added. Again, by the time it's processed during the album making, mastered etc, the differences are hard to hear.
But WHY wouldn't you start with the best ingredients when cooking a meal?
By the way, CDs still sell very well around the globe. More than vinyl. CDs are less popular than streaming, but as far as owning physical product, CDs are still top of the heap.

 

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