Rough and Rowdy Ways

[shortfin]

Somehow I had not listened to Bob Dylan's Rough And Rowdy Ways from 2020 until this morning, and it made me think about a lot of things which resonated with Mark and ODR. I must say I am totally blown away by everything on this album, every single song is great, many nothing short of a masterpiece, the band sounds outstanding, the lyrics, the songs, Bob's voice, what a powerful piece of art this is. And I must say it overwhelmed me artistically in a way I was hoping ODR would do but didn't. Bob's energy and creativity on this one is one of a kind.

I know it might annoy some people but the vinyl experience with this is really awesome! I wonder how comes that this album sounds SO good and ODR just sucks sonically compared with this. All the British Grove ado obviously is not able to reach this level of perfection. I have 70% of Bob's albums and I might consider this as one of his best!

ODR (on vinyl) sounds somewhat dull compared to Rough And Rowdy Ways. I know posts like these always get the same kind of replys about Bob's grueling voice and walking out the venue back in 2011 etc. But I strongly suggest to give this album a free minded and unprejudiced listen. Both are late in their lifes and careers, both have seen it all and have nothing to prove and both are great songwriters. But the artistic difference is soo big.

Maybe the other thread about Dolly Shop Man and the missed opportunities of a better ODR album was part of these thoughts. I also think that better combinations from the new songs would have been possible. Rough And Rowdy Ways however sounds perfect. Nothing, not the slightest thing, not a single note should be changed. Masterpiece!

LE

Perhaps a bit off-topic, but I'd like to take the opportunity anyway. Despite my age (59) and despite the fact that throughout my life and to this day I listen to tons of music (mainly rock in all its facets, blues and a bit of folk) I have never come close to Dylan. I think the only album of his that I have listened to in its entirety is Slow Train Coming. And this is despite what Mark (and certainly not just him) says about Bob. So, since you seem to be a fan, I'll ask you two things:
1. Can one appreciate Dylan without fully understanding the lyrics? I am Italian, I can understand English but understanding Dylan singing is not easy. And since Dylan is mostly talked about for the quality of the songwriting.... Should I listen to him by studying the lyrics first or, more simply, keeping them underneath while listening? And then, brutally: Is Dylan also valuable musically, or are the lyrics his strong point and does the music, in some way, "just" support it?
2. Tough question: two or three albums to start with?

[Rolo]

1. Can one appreciate Dylan without fully understanding the lyrics?
2. Tough question: two or three albums to start with?

Putting my opinion on your question to LE:

1. I am brazilian. So, YES!
2. If you are a man who like the Blues, as I am, I consider to listen Bob's blues phase (since 1997).
- Love And Theft
- Modern Times
- Together Throght Life
and, of course: Rought And Rowdy Ways

Well, this is one of various Bob's facets.

[dustyvalentino]

This is maybe a good one to listen if you're not focussing on the lyrics so much, great music production

[Love Expresso]

Somehow I had not listened to Bob Dylan's Rough And Rowdy Ways from 2020 until this morning, and it made me think about a lot of things which resonated with Mark and ODR. I must say I am totally blown away by everything on this album, every single song is great, many nothing short of a masterpiece, the band sounds outstanding, the lyrics, the songs, Bob's voice, what a powerful piece of art this is. And I must say it overwhelmed me artistically in a way I was hoping ODR would do but didn't. Bob's energy and creativity on this one is one of a kind.

I know it might annoy some people but the vinyl experience with this is really awesome! I wonder how comes that this album sounds SO good and ODR just sucks sonically compared with this. All the British Grove ado obviously is not able to reach this level of perfection. I have 70% of Bob's albums and I might consider this as one of his best!

ODR (on vinyl) sounds somewhat dull compared to Rough And Rowdy Ways. I know posts like these always get the same kind of replys about Bob's grueling voice and walking out the venue back in 2011 etc. But I strongly suggest to give this album a free minded and unprejudiced listen. Both are late in their lifes and careers, both have seen it all and have nothing to prove and both are great songwriters. But the artistic difference is soo big.

Maybe the other thread about Dolly Shop Man and the missed opportunities of a better ODR album was part of these thoughts. I also think that better combinations from the new songs would have been possible. Rough And Rowdy Ways however sounds perfect. Nothing, not the slightest thing, not a single note should be changed. Masterpiece!

LE

Perhaps a bit off-topic, but I'd like to take the opportunity anyway. Despite my age (59) and despite the fact that throughout my life and to this day I listen to tons of music (mainly rock in all its facets, blues and a bit of folk) I have never come close to Dylan. I think the only album of his that I have listened to in its entirety is Slow Train Coming. And this is despite what Mark (and certainly not just him) says about Bob. So, since you seem to be a fan, I'll ask you two things:
1. Can one appreciate Dylan without fully understanding the lyrics? I am Italian, I can understand English but understanding Dylan singing is not easy. And since Dylan is mostly talked about for the quality of the songwriting.... Should I listen to him by studying the lyrics first or, more simply, keeping them underneath while listening? And then, brutally: Is Dylan also valuable musically, or are the lyrics his strong point and does the music, in some way, "just" support it?
2. Tough question: two or three albums to start with?

1. Of course you can. But it is a real adventure to dive into his lyrics, so it's worth to try to work them out.

2.
Blood On The Tracks
Oh, Mercy
Time Out Of Mind
Love And Theft
Modern Times

To 1.
I could never listen to MK without knowing and understanding (at least some of the often many levels) of his lyrics. And that exactly is what let ODR drift away so fast for me. I never said it is a bad album but it has just not any impact, I listened to it the first four weeks on a daily base but it just ... faded away and none of the lyrics are on the same level as let's say Basil, Silver Eagle or So Far From The Clyde. And as it is also all the same musically, I just can't find the same pleasure in it as in earlier MK albums.

And Bob Dylan is a complete other dimension, lyrically, historically, his vision, his energy and his power. Dylan is the master, Knopfer the apprentice.


LE

[hunter v2.0]

Rough And Rowdy Ways is a great album. What I like about Dylan is that he is open for trying new things. He involved the wonderful guitarist and producer Blake Mills in this project, and I hear a lot of input from Mills on the sound of the album.

Obviously, Bob is Bob, and he is an extraordinary and strange person, so comparing him to Mark is not really - I don't know - fair. But I really wish Mark would step outside his comfort zone more. At this stage of his life, this will of course not happen.

I had a listen to this album yesterday - it's been a while since the last time. I think it has it's moments, but I don't actually think it's a great album. Musically it has a lot of subtleties and interesting chords, which I believe come as a result of having Blake Mills on this album. He's just a genius. Still, too many songs feel very static, musically speaking. It almost feels as if Bob sings, or speaks, poems to a looped backing track. I do like how Bob sings/speaks, though. There's an intensity to him that is very compelling. (Mark had that in the early days, but totally lost it over the years.) Lyrically I get kind of lost. Bob has a lot on his mind, but it's difficult to figure out what the point of many the songs is. Is there a message? Is there a story? It feels like he's rambling, which makes a lot of the songs feel similar lyrically. (Mark's songs are not like that, which I like.) Bob has a unique way with words, though, and the he makes things rhyme is pure genius.

[Pottel]

This is maybe a good one to listen if you're not focussing on the lyrics so much, great music production

one of my all time favourite Krusty songs.

[Pottel]

1. Can one appreciate Dylan without fully understanding the lyrics?
2. Tough question: two or three albums to start with?

Putting my opinion on your question to LE:

1. I am brazilian. So, YES!
2. If you are a man who like the Blues, as I am, I consider to listen Bob's blues phase (since 1997).
- Love And Theft
- Modern Times
- Together Throght Life
and, of course: Rought And Rowdy Ways

Well, this is one of various Bob's facets.

how could you forget Time out of mind!! and Oh Mercy???

[Rolo]

how could you forget Time out of mind!! and Oh Mercy???

I didn't forget.
I put my 3 blues favs plus 1 

[stratmad]

Big topic.. although slightly off-topic 🤣

I can relate to the original posting up to a point - Dylan still sounds very energetic on RaRW, as he always has, while ODR is much more polished, produced, finely tuned. Dylan, if you will, is more like a Van Gogh, while MK is more like Dürer or Rembrandt, if that makes any sense.
I guess that's always been one the major differences between the two (which was also the main thing that critics and die-hard Dylan-fans had to say about Infidels, which is imho one of the better records Dylan has ever made!).

But actually I'm not sure if you can actually compare the two in any way, because they're just very different artists with very different personalities, and that shows in their work. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I see it is that Dylan (like Randy Newman) has always been "the man with a message", a political poet with a guitar, and he is still in some way the "angry young man" with a drive to change the world, even at 83. MK (like Leonard Cohen), I think, has always been "a musician with something to say", and over the years the focus has shifted more towards the songwriting, the stories. Of course there are messages in his songs, but very often the topics are more at a personal level, interhuman relationships of all sorts. There aren't many openly political songs, even those are often either ironical (like Industrial Disease, Bacon Roll) or they're just observations (like Iron Hand) without actually stating a clear political message.

So, to put it in a nutshell, MK will often just describe the world we live in and our immediate surroundings and leave it up to you to work out what could be changed, while Dylan often has a clear message about big topics.
I'm not sure, maybe it's partly influenced by their backgrounds (American vs. British), the time and circumstances they grew up in, education or just very different personalities and approaches to life.
I agree that Dylan is a master, no doubt about it. But MK has long stopped being an apprentice, he's a master too, but of something slightly different :-)

[dustyvalentino]

Great post! Not sure I can agree with MK being a master but I agree with the rest of it.

[Love Expresso]

Dylan has given up political messages already in the 1960's.. and I wish Mark HAD something to say ..

LE

[stratmad]

Dylan has given up political messages already in the 1960's.. and I wish Mark HAD something to say ..

LE

Are you sure? There are political or moral messages in most of his songs, apart from lovesongs and the like. Bob doesn't tell you what to think or vote for, of course, but he usually makes it very clear where he stands.
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/barack-obama-bob-dylan-election-day-750822/ is just one example.
As for MK, ODR is a lot about his own biography of course, but he still has a lot to say. "Chess" alone is a masterpiece!

[Robson]

Big topic.. although slightly off-topic 🤣

I can relate to the original posting up to a point - Dylan still sounds very energetic on RaRW, as he always has, while ODR is much more polished, produced, finely tuned. Dylan, if you will, is more like a Van Gogh, while MK is more like Dürer or Rembrandt, if that makes any sense.
I guess that's always been one the major differences between the two (which was also the main thing that critics and die-hard Dylan-fans had to say about Infidels, which is imho one of the better records Dylan has ever made!).

But actually I'm not sure if you can actually compare the two in any way, because they're just very different artists with very different personalities, and that shows in their work. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I see it is that Dylan (like Randy Newman) has always been "the man with a message", a political poet with a guitar, and he is still in some way the "angry young man" with a drive to change the world, even at 83. MK (like Leonard Cohen), I think, has always been "a musician with something to say", and over the years the focus has shifted more towards the songwriting, the stories. Of course there are messages in his songs, but very often the topics are more at a personal level, interhuman relationships of all sorts. There aren't many openly political songs, even those are often either ironical (like Industrial Disease, Bacon Roll) or they're just observations (like Iron Hand) without actually stating a clear political message.

So, to put it in a nutshell, MK will often just describe the world we live in and our immediate surroundings and leave it up to you to work out what could be changed, while Dylan often has a clear message about big topics.
I'm not sure, maybe it's partly influenced by their backgrounds (American vs. British), the time and circumstances they grew up in, education or just very different personalities and approaches to life.
I agree that Dylan is a master, no doubt about it. But MK has long stopped being an apprentice, he's a master too, but of something slightly different :-)

Very good post. I agree. To Mark Bob was always the master and to many of us Mark was always the master

Ps. I prefer the album "Slow Train Coming" Today is the anniversary of its release.

[dustyvalentino]

Dylan has given up political messages already in the 1960's.. and I wish Mark HAD something to say ..

LE

1980s rather than 60s but Neighbourhood Bully is pretty damn political...

[Pottel]

listening to RaRW now, not bad, but deffo not his best, and not the best place to start with Bob imho.
i do not like his crooning songs (e.g. I contain Multitudes, or any of his last three albums full of -often Sinatra- covers)
as said, i think Time out of mind is a superb starting point for newbies.
coming back to RaRW, i like:
Goodbye Jimmy Reed (though not mindblowing)
Murder most Foul (mindblowing, imho)
rest is boring croning shite.