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Author Topic: (2) Ahead of the game  (Read 27296 times)

OfflineRail King

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Re: (2) Ahead of the game
« Reply #165 on: January 26, 2024, 03:22:03 PM »
I only listened to the track one single time, because I don't want it to have an unfair advantage over the other tracks when I'll listen to them in April. (A neurotic obsession of mine, I'll admit.)

But I loved it. It's very unassuming, even subdued, yes - but that's the perfect expression of what the song is about. I loved the bridge part (musical bridge, I mean), when there's a glimmer of hope - only for the music to fall back to the old riff. It's stuff like that, in my opinion, that Mark does better than anyone.

And I'm glad the riff is so memorable. It does go well with the words "See you in April" - I think I'll have it in my ear until then. :)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2024, 03:53:44 PM by Rail King »

OfflineRail King

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Re: (2) Ahead of the game
« Reply #166 on: January 26, 2024, 03:31:49 PM »
What I didn't understand, by the way, is some of your criticism of the track's production. If only some of the past tracks would have been produced this way, and had that same warm atmosphere! No idea what they may or may not have done in the studio, but to me as a layperson it sounds like a bunch of guys playing together, and that's it. I love that and think it fits Mark's later-day music well. I was never very fond of how some of the older songs, even great ones ("Privateering" comes to mind) sounded comped and overproduced. If the whole album should sound like "Ahead of the Game", that's very alright with me. They may have spent hours choosing the right microphones, okay, but that's fine if they had the time (which they definitely did  ;)), and the results sound about as down to earth is any MK track ever did.

OfflineKnopflerfan

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Re: (2) Ahead of the game
« Reply #167 on: January 26, 2024, 04:06:56 PM »
Boswell guitars used a random bridge on their MK model, could be any bridge ;)



Beautiful and love how its not in the centre. Wouldn't look right in the centre....

FEATURE 2
Tyne River Bridge inlay.  This inlay came directly from Mark.  The Tyne bridge is an iconic landmark in Newcastle, where Mark spent his late childhood/teen years. He mentions or alludes to the city and the river Tyne often in songs. The song ‘Going Home’ from Local Hero is used as Newcastle Football Club’s home walk out song
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Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: (2) Ahead of the game
« Reply #168 on: January 26, 2024, 04:26:01 PM »
Beautiful and love how its not in the centre. Wouldn't look right in the centre....

FEATURE 2
Tyne River Bridge inlay.  This inlay came directly from Mark.  The Tyne bridge is an iconic landmark in Newcastle, where Mark spent his late childhood/teen years. He mentions or alludes to the city and the river Tyne often in songs. The song ‘Going Home’ from Local Hero is used as Newcastle Football Club’s home walk out song

Just asked Butch about the inlay position and will share the answer here. After all, why wonder around when we have the man himself available to comment? I might be the only person who cares about this, not the first time it happened to me. And by the way, on the guitar Mark got before this new one, the inlay is perfectly centred. In fact, all Boswell guitars have a symmetrical inlay, and most guitars for that matter, so it's definitely a rare specimen. Everything on an acoustic guitar is about symmetry. Book-matched tops, circles, 3+3 headstock, the instrument is literally built around the centre line. So any deviation from this is a bold move.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2024, 04:33:30 PM by quizzaciously »

OfflineKnopflerfan

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Re: (2) Ahead of the game
« Reply #169 on: January 26, 2024, 04:59:59 PM »
It wouldn't bother me if the inlay wasn't exactly centre, in fact I prefer the inlay Tyne bridge lower as if resting on the bottom fret line.....just my opinion
* Mark Knopfler - NOT just a hobby, but a way of life!

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OfflineMatchstickman

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Re: (2) Ahead of the game
« Reply #170 on: January 26, 2024, 05:23:03 PM »
A few thoughs on the single:

The riff is a nice litte surprise. The groove, bass playing and overall vibe of that bit sound just great, though it is a bit stale, stuck on the same chord.

As for the rest of the tune, it sounds very much like Mark has sounded for ten years. These days, he has a tendency to write songs that are not exactly driven or given energy by chord changes, as it were, but where they often seem to come 'behind', or not quite in sync with the melody. I'm not very fond of this style, as the songs often seem to be dragging their feet.

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: (2) Ahead of the game
« Reply #171 on: January 26, 2024, 06:11:46 PM »
It wouldn't bother me if the inlay wasn't exactly centre, in fact I prefer the inlay Tyne bridge lower as if resting on the bottom fret line.....just my opinion

The master's answer: "It looks completely different with the frets actually put in. This way gives it more balance and more “sky” above the bridge, with the bottom fret appearing more as the surface the bridge is spanning."

Well, you can actually see the finished instrument on his page and I still stand with my opinion that I would like it centred. I'll never even have a guitar like this, so who cares. That's the beauty of this world isn't it? Everybody has their preferences, opinions and feelings.

OfflineRolo

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Re: (2) Ahead of the game
« Reply #172 on: January 26, 2024, 08:52:03 PM »
The master's answer: "It looks completely different with the frets actually put in. This way gives it more balance and more “sky” above the bridge, with the bottom fret appearing more as the surface the bridge is spanning."

Well, you can actually see the finished instrument on his page and I still stand with my opinion that I would like it centred. I'll never even have a guitar like this, so who cares. That's the beauty of this world isn't it? Everybody has their preferences, opinions and feelings.

This kind of debate about gear related to MK always make me think:
The MK brand was/is on:
- Fender Strat
- Gibson LP
- Martin Ragpicker
- Pensa MKx
- Boswell
- Tone King MK (i read somewhere that is related to MK)

Mark wasn't always a rich man.
So, would be nice to see some Middle Class Gear related to MK.
- Mexican Strats
- Epiphone LP

Carlos Santana, during the idealization of the PRS Santana model, explains to Paul that he needed to sell a cheap and good guitar for those who connot buy good instruments for a low price.

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: (2) Ahead of the game
« Reply #173 on: January 26, 2024, 09:33:10 PM »
The master's answer: "It looks completely different with the frets actually put in. This way gives it more balance and more “sky” above the bridge, with the bottom fret appearing more as the surface the bridge is spanning."

Well, you can actually see the finished instrument on his page and I still stand with my opinion that I would like it centred. I'll never even have a guitar like this, so who cares. That's the beauty of this world isn't it? Everybody has their preferences, opinions and feelings.

This kind of debate about gear related to MK always make me think:
The MK brand was/is on:
- Fender Strat
- Gibson LP
- Martin Ragpicker
- Pensa MKx
- Boswell
- Tone King MK (i read somewhere that is related to MK)

Mark wasn't always a rich man.
So, would be nice to see some Middle Class Gear related to MK.
- Mexican Strats
- Epiphone LP

Carlos Santana, during the idealization of the PRS Santana model, explains to Paul that he needed to sell a cheap and good guitar for those who connot buy good instruments for a low price.

Everybody knows I had ranted about it on this forum many, many, many times... And will rant about it till the cows come home. I have a very strong opinion that signature instruments should not be expensive, period. The signature instrument is supposed to be affordable, so your young broke fans and beginner guitar players or their parents can afford it, not only your old wealthy guitar-collecting fans. And history knows a variety of examples of when it was done properly.

Mark seems to dismiss the idea completely and all his signature instruments along with his signature bear an outrageous price tag. I don't get it. For the price of these instruments, which is well into the professional instrument category or likely way beyond it, you can find an array of better alternatives, and professionals will have their guitars made to their specifications anyway, they don't need Mr. Knopfler to configure guitars for them.

The only exception was Signature Fender which was priced just like an average decent American-made Strat, and people on this forum said Mark wanted to do a Mexican-made version of it, as well as different colours, but as usual couldn't find time or willpower to do it. So apparently he just agrees on a first idea which is basically "Let's do a guitar like you have" and that's it. They do it, but the price inevitably goes through the roof as Mark is playing great quality instruments anyway.

The irony of this situation is that Mark is the guy who stopped signing guitars in fear they would appear on eBay, the guy who says he loves cheap guitars and hopes that his $500,000 LP will find good use, and yet the majority of his signature instruments are in collectors vaults all over the world because they are ridiculously expensive. When it comes to MK Sig instruments, it's a complete mess and one of the departments I can't say a lot of good words about Markus.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2024, 09:42:12 PM by quizzaciously »

OfflineIron Hand

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Re: (2) Ahead of the game
« Reply #174 on: January 26, 2024, 10:42:06 PM »
I think one could fall in love with Basil (the song, not the man) by just reading the lines like "Poets have to eat as well", "What he wouldn't give just to walk out today / To have time to think about time", "Bury all joy / Put the poems in sacks / And bury me here with the hacks", "Basil puts on his old duffel and scarf / And goes out into the dark."

I mean just reading this gives me chills, and I'm not even a native English speaker. But on top of that, you get Mark's beautiful vocals, usual guitar brilliance, and perfect production. I can't understand how somebody can not like a song like this. It's incredibly atmospheric and hands down one of the best songs on the Tracker album, if not the best. Maybe you are just not a fan of slow ballads. If you are, then give it another shot.
I definitely appreciate good lyrics, but if the music doesn't move me, then they're just good lyrics. It's not really just about tempos either, although I do lose patience/attention with slower songs more easily. (I'm probably one of the younger members here, which might be relevant in that context.)

It's not that I hate "Basil", and I think there are definitely worse songs on the album, but the discussion was about track orders & I wouldn't have put it at second position. Imagine someone put "Why Worry" after "So Far Away" on BIA... it would've taken all the energy out of the record way too early. I even remember that a review (possibly in eclipsed) pointed this out - along the lines of "this atmospheric song appears too early in the tracklist and takes the drive away too quickly". 100%

There are some days where think Tracker is Mark's best album, surpassing even STP. I suppose you have to get into a certain mood to truly enjoy it.
Believe me, I've tried, but I gave up eventually; and if I don't really derive enough pleasure from an album, I'm not really inclined to reach for it. I did once make a radically restructured playlist that - sacrilege, I know - I think is more focused and interesting than the regular tracklist - but I'm not going to post it on here for now...I've probably already ruffled enough feathers  ;D
The idea was probably that a fret underneath the bridge is like a river, but support beams don't touch the fret on a finished guitar! The arc of the bridge is heavily off-centre, making this whole structure very hard to look at. I swear, if I bought this guitar, the first thing I would do is take it to the luthier and move the inlay.
Hard to look at, really?

It reminded me of the Rule of thirds that is generally preferred in photography. At least in the pic you posted, I view the frets above and below as the edges of a photo and a bridge usually doesn't float in the middle of a pic, it's closer to the bottom than to the top. The way they did it looks right to me and suggests a bit of ground below and sky above.

And now I see that this is also the official explanation, making the point of my reply moot...  :smack
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Offlinermarques821

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Re: (2) Ahead of the game
« Reply #175 on: January 26, 2024, 10:52:04 PM »
I think one could fall in love with Basil (the song, not the man) by just reading the lines like "Poets have to eat as well", "What he wouldn't give just to walk out today / To have time to think about time", "Bury all joy / Put the poems in sacks / And bury me here with the hacks", "Basil puts on his old duffel and scarf / And goes out into the dark."

I mean just reading this gives me chills, and I'm not even a native English speaker. But on top of that, you get Mark's beautiful vocals, usual guitar brilliance, and perfect production. I can't understand how somebody can not like a song like this. It's incredibly atmospheric and hands down one of the best songs on the Tracker album, if not the best. Maybe you are just not a fan of slow ballads. If you are, then give it another shot.
I definitely appreciate good lyrics, but if the music doesn't move me, then they're just good lyrics. It's not really just about tempos either, although I do lose patience/attention with slower songs more easily. (I'm probably one of the younger members here, which might be relevant in that context.)

It's not that I hate "Basil", and I think there are definitely worse songs on the album, but the discussion was about track orders & I wouldn't have put it at second position. Imagine someone put "Why Worry" after "So Far Away" on BIA... it would've taken all the energy out of the record way too early. I even remember that a review (possibly in eclipsed) pointed this out - along the lines of "this atmospheric song appears too early in the tracklist and takes the drive away too quickly". 100%

There are some days where think Tracker is Mark's best album, surpassing even STP. I suppose you have to get into a certain mood to truly enjoy it.
Believe me, I've tried, but I gave up eventually; and if I don't really derive enough pleasure from an album, I'm not really inclined to reach for it. I did once make a radically restructured playlist that - sacrilege, I know - I think is more focused and interesting than the regular tracklist - but I'm not going to post it on here for now...I've probably already ruffled enough feathers  ;D
The idea was probably that a fret underneath the bridge is like a river, but support beams don't touch the fret on a finished guitar! The arc of the bridge is heavily off-centre, making this whole structure very hard to look at. I swear, if I bought this guitar, the first thing I would do is take it to the luthier and move the inlay.
Hard to look at, really?

It reminded me of the Rule of thirds that is generally preferred in photography. At least in the pic you posted, I view the frets above and below as the edges of a photo and a bridge usually doesn't float in the middle of a pic, it's closer to the bottom than to the top. The way they did it looks right to me and suggests a bit of ground below and sky above.

And now I see that this is also the official explanation, making the point of my reply moot...  :smack
Interesting to read your perspective, feel free to share your personalized tracklist for Tracker. And welcome to the forum!

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: (2) Ahead of the game
« Reply #176 on: January 26, 2024, 11:22:45 PM »
Hey Iron Hand, you're definitely on the right track with all your thoughts. Regarding age and losing patience with slower songs, that's okay. I remember when I was younger I also preferred faster music, and with time slow ballads have grown into my favourite type of music. A good ballad is everything I need to feel like the happiest man in the world. It's like many of the iconic books make no sense to read before 30 for instance.

Mark's slow songs, in particular, can be perceived as incredibly dull and boring, I know many people can fall asleep while listening to them, and songs like "Follow The Ribbon" can put to sleep even die-hard fans. Just listen to "Follow The Ribbon", it's as if it was recorded at a 10 BPM tempo, one of the slowest songs in MK's history. I wonder how the musicians themselves managed to record it in full EIGHTH minutes!

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: (2) Ahead of the game
« Reply #177 on: January 26, 2024, 11:24:03 PM »
With the bridge inlay, I already realised I was the only one against the entire world here the whole time. If this is the idea of a bridge, it would look better at the 14th fret, where the neck meets the body, the body in this case would symbolise the "water", and I'm sorry to say, but on the 12th fret, this bridge is floating in mid-air if we continue to follow this analogy.

I can explain why I have such a big problem with this in the first place. The problem is that I noticed the offset inlay the instance I saw it. I've seen enough guitars in my life and usually, there are no such thoughts whatsoever — it's just a guitar, they are all basically the same. But here, I immediately thought, wait a minute? What's up with the bridge? Why it's so low? I have the right to ask such a question, and I did it. And keep in mind, it's a unique project and a unique guitar, not a production Martin or something, so it's not like you can have some expectations, so everything is up for discussion.

Made a quick photoshopped image comparing the 12th fret bridge and the 14th fret bridge:
« Last Edit: January 26, 2024, 11:45:23 PM by quizzaciously »

OfflineChase

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Re: (2) Ahead of the game
« Reply #178 on: January 27, 2024, 08:03:18 AM »
I am so happy to hear a new material from Mark. I've already been a little bit bored with it after many times listening to it over a past few days, but it's doesn't change the fact that is a good song and I really like it. PS: Love the cover of the new album, it's beautiful!

OfflineIron Hand

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Re: (2) Ahead of the game
« Reply #179 on: January 27, 2024, 11:54:24 AM »
HR1 just played "Ahead of the Game", the first time I've heard the song on the radio.  :thumbsup
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