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Author Topic: Just The Drummer In The Band...  (Read 5630 times)

Offline2manyguitars

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Just The Drummer In The Band...
« on: December 16, 2023, 01:05:36 PM »
Came across this on YT and don't recall seeing it before. Could be my faded memory but I thought I'd post anyway....

https://youtu.be/-WRMz3bLMNM?si=IHOvuVNFAVkQdQDH

Offlineherlock

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Re: Just The Drummer In The Band...
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2023, 02:11:09 PM »
Thanks!
Listening how cheerfully Marks speaks about Terry, one can really wonder why he "didn't meet the grade for OES" a couple of years later...

OfflineMatchstickman

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Re: Just The Drummer In The Band...
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2023, 03:40:03 PM »
Thanks!
Listening how cheerfully Marks speaks about Terry, one can really wonder why he "didn't meet the grade for OES" a couple of years later...


And not even talking to him  ??? If true, that is truly baffling.

Offline2manyguitars

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Re: Just The Drummer In The Band...
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2023, 07:27:31 PM »
It did amuse me, all the BIA stuff used as background music that TW didn't play on!

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Just The Drummer In The Band...
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2023, 09:08:10 PM »
Thanks!
Listening how cheerfully Marks speaks about Terry, one can really wonder why he "didn't meet the grade for OES" a couple of years later...


And not even talking to him  ??? If true, that is truly baffling.

Thanks, this was new for me as well. You rarely get full official features like this about musicians, it means they really "made it". What a great guy.

Kudos to him for acknowledging he's just the drummer in the band and not wanting to lead a Terry Williams Band or whatever. Some instruments are not meant to be the main event (IMHO). Oscar Peterson Trio is nice, but it feels odd when the drummer leads the way and you've got a drum set front and centre on stage.

His relationships with Mr Knopfler? Personally I don't care...

OfflineChris W

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Re: Just The Drummer In The Band...
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2023, 10:08:54 PM »

Kudos to him for acknowledging he's just the drummer in the band and not wanting to lead a Terry Williams Band or whatever.

It's irrelevant.

OfflineChris W

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Re: Just The Drummer In The Band...
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2023, 10:09:36 PM »
Thanks!
Listening how cheerfully Marks speaks about Terry, one can really wonder why he "didn't meet the grade for OES" a couple of years later...

I think Terry was no longer involved quite soon after the BIA tour. I don't know why.

Offlineherlock

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Re: Just The Drummer In The Band...
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2023, 10:16:31 PM »
Thanks!
Listening how cheerfully Marks speaks about Terry, one can really wonder why he "didn't meet the grade for OES" a couple of years later...

I think Terry was no longer involved quite soon after the BIA tour. I don't know why.
Well he was still the DS drummer at the Mandela gig, in 1988, 2 years after the end of the BIA tour.
On his forum Guy once said "Terry didn't meet the grade for OES". It seems that Terry was what Mark wanted for the LOG and BIA tours (moving from pub to stadium rock, need for a drummer less subtle but more powerful than Pick) but yet he was not quite satisfied by this approach, at least for studio: we all know the sad story of Terry forced to leave Montserrat during the BIA sessions, with only the MFN intro and a bit of walk of life kept from his work, the rest being re-recorded by Omar Hakim, a drummer much more similar to Pick in terms of subtility than Terry... But then Terry was asked to come back for the tour... I think Mark for OES wanted a drummer who would be both powerful and subtle - So Jeff, Manu, and yourself....:) Terry was sidelined, never to return, just like Jack Sonni...

Offlineds1984

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Re: Just The Drummer In The Band...
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2023, 10:51:05 PM »
Terry was initialy intended for recording on OES and that what a surprise to me when I learnt this, as for years I was conviced that Mark did not think about him for OES.
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Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Just The Drummer In The Band...
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2023, 10:57:41 PM »

Kudos to him for acknowledging he's just the drummer in the band and not wanting to lead a Terry Williams Band or whatever.

It's irrelevant.

You must be fun at... parties :lol Sorry.

Transcript of the video:

[Talking about playing in local bands in Wales] People have come out to Terry and said, why isn't it called "Terry Williams Band because you were in Dire Straits and very famous? And Terry's answer would be "Well, I'm just a drummer in the band"

Where in the name of Buddy Rich, Ringo Starr and Joey Jordison I was wrong again?

OfflineChris W

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Re: Just The Drummer In The Band...
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2023, 09:56:41 AM »
I'm saying if you want to celebrate Terry Williams, not having led his own band is the least thing I would highlight.
It's irrelevant.

OfflineChris W

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Re: Just The Drummer In The Band...
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2023, 10:35:15 AM »
It's a tough one.
If you're good enough to play live to millions of people you are good enough to make the record.

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Just The Drummer In The Band...
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2023, 12:13:44 PM »
Neil Dorfsman said this about recording Brothers In Arms:

"Perhaps my bedside manner wasn't the best in the sense that I always wanted the music to be the most important thing," Dorfsman now admits. "Not that I would be mean, but I would constantly be pushing for things to be different from how they were if they didn't feel right. At the same time, I would tell Mark my concerns, knowing that, as his co-producer, I could always take the blame if he decided to take action. That's part of the job description. And so finally, even though Mark had been a little bit more patient, a little bit more tolerant with the band, he got a sense that maybe things weren't happening the way they could and he decided to act.

"To me, the record was sounding more like a demo, and this really hit home when we tried to do the song 'Ride Across The River', with its white-boy reggae feel. It was laying there like lead. I don't think Terry felt that rhythm, and that was totally understandable. Having played with Dave Edmunds and Rockpile, that wasn't what he was famous for. He was a great drummer, but his style was more straight-ahead rock & roll, whereas Omar's style was more polyrhythmic and better suited to the direction in which Mark was going. The material needed the kind of glossy sheen that Omar brought, as well as his versatility — there was a lot of different music on the record: 'Your Latest Trick' was kind of jazzy and 'Ride Across The River' had that reggae-ish feel, so we needed a drummer who was versed in a lot of different styles and Omar fit the bill in that regard.

"Believe me, it was a load off my mind when he played that first tune and knocked everybody out. It was a big deal to fly somebody in from New York, not really knowing 100 percent if things would go according to plan. I had worked with him a bunch in the past and knew he was great, but I still didn't really know if he was going to be the right guy for the job. Thank God, for that particular record, the right call was made. There were definitely some sweaty moments."

Source: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/classic-tracks-dire-straits-money-nothing

So if they went through all this trouble recording Brothers In Arms, why would they bother to repeat it while recording On Every Street, which in a lot of ways is similar to Brothers In Arms and even more varied, when you can resort to using great session drummers from the get-go? Meanwhile, Terry's chops were absolutely fine for the live environment it seems, but he was replaced by Chris, and luckily, we have him on this forum to tell us first-hand why it may have happened.

The most astonishing part of all this to me is that Omar learned, prepared and recorded all the parts for the album in a matter of a couple of days. What a legend. Reminds me of how Larry Knechtel came up with an epic and timeless piano arrangement of "Bridge Over Troubled Water" just as fast according to Paul Simon. Great and versatile musicians don't need a lot of time to create gold, they just emerge out of nowhere and do the job, as if sent from the heavens with this one task.

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: Just The Drummer In The Band...
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2023, 01:18:16 PM »
With all this said in my previous post, my theory would be, as DS needed to record a live album and Mark knew it, he would continue with the same logic and hire a great and known session drummer to do this right. No offense to Terry. And in no way Mark acts as an a-hole here, as song is king and they just tried to make the best recording. Judging by a lot of people complaining On The Night sounds like a studio album instead of the live album, I think they succeeded, but maybe not in a way to suit everybody's taste.

OfflineRobson

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Re: Just The Drummer In The Band...
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2023, 01:41:49 PM »
This is all very interesting. Terry Williams was the drummer on the Brothers In Arms tour. And the setlist included Ride Across The River and Your Latest Trick. And we know that Terry was great at concerts, but not in the studio? But I understand the subtle differences:)
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