Dire Straits star Mark Knopfler to auction Brothers In Arms guitars - BBC NEWS

[dustyvalentino]

This guy made the BiA/MFN Les Paul:

https://www.lespaulforum.com/index.php?threads/mark-knopfler-christies-auction.221896/post-2937349

Wow, what a great find! Thank you for this. The world is a small place. And poor ol' Mark, due to poverty had to buy a Custom Shop Les Paul instead of the 1959!

I think this is a perfect illustration of how ridiculous this whole thing is. A 1959 les Paul would be only 24 years old in 1983, for all intents and purposes just a slightly vintage guitar, and yet Mark already could not afford it after years of touring, recording and buying custom Schecters and whatnot.

Just make do with whatever you have on hand, and forget about these overpriced, overrated slabs of wood with strings.

Yeah, the thing about not being able to afford it is bullshit, they were selling for under $10k in 1985:

https://www.lespaulforum.com/index.php?threads/vintage-59-worth-in-1982.137758/

[quizzaciously]

Exactly! Les Paul is an atrociously designed guitar anyway. It won't stay in tune, it's too heavy, it's too fragile, too expensive, and not repair-friendly, but hey it looks beautiful, at least I can give it credit for in this department. It wasn't successful in 1958-1959, there were too few produced, and now it's seemingly a "holy grail" just because it's rare and expensive. Go figure... People are people and things like this will work 10,000 years from now. Something is produced too early, does not get enough attention for whatever reason, fails in sales, and then years later comes back as a holy grail. And yet, rest assured any decent LP will sound exactly the same as the 1959.

I know what you're coming from. I thought it was largely hype, until I got to spend some time with the Peter Green/Gary Moore/Kirk Hammett '59. It was incomparable to any other LP I've played, *especially* in terms of how it sounded. In MK's words "these guitars will spoil you". I'm sure some bursts are better then others, but a good one is not the same thing as "any decent Les Paul."

That's why Mark said in the video unveiling his signature Les Paul, that it "works out of the box". I'm pretty sure 1959 is a great guitar, no doubt about it, but to replicate this experience today it needs to be a $5,000+ Custom Shop guitar with True Historic specs or whatever. It is true for any vintage guitar I think. I'm sure a vintage Höfner violin bass from the early 60s is nothing compared to modern versions, even made by Höfner themselves. It's just the way the world works now, planned obsolescence and greed...

Gibson however is notorious for having all sorts of quality control issues on their guitars. I knew a local luthier here in Moscow and he repaired so many brand-new Les Pauls, including Custom Shop ones!!! that honestly, I would rather just drool over pictures than buy this guitar again today. I owned a brand new Gibson Les Paul once and I'm happy I can talk about this experience in past tense. One of the worst guitars I ever played.

[quizzaciously]

This guy made the BiA/MFN Les Paul:

https://www.lespaulforum.com/index.php?threads/mark-knopfler-christies-auction.221896/post-2937349

Wow, what a great find! Thank you for this. The world is a small place. And poor ol' Mark, due to poverty had to buy a Custom Shop Les Paul instead of the 1959!

I think this is a perfect illustration of how ridiculous this whole thing is. A 1959 les Paul would be only 24 years old in 1983, for all intents and purposes just a slightly vintage guitar, and yet Mark already could not afford it after years of touring, recording and buying custom Schecters and whatnot.

Just make do with whatever you have on hand, and forget about these overpriced, overrated slabs of wood with strings.

Yeah, the thing about not being able to afford it is bullshit, they were selling for under $10k in 1985:

https://www.lespaulforum.com/index.php?threads/vintage-59-worth-in-1982.137758/

Interesting. So Mark could've easily made up this story just to be romantic? I'm pretty sure it wasn't as romantic as he describes it. He probably just wanted to try a Les Paul, and Rudy sold him a nice one. Maybe after the fact he wanted a vintage one, but it's true it wasn't as desirable and expensive back then.

[dustyvalentino]

In the 80s it seems he was very much into new (for then) tech and not vintage stuff:

Schecters
Pensas (including synth guitars)
Gibson Chet Atkins
Ovations
Synclavier
Steinberger
New amps from various manufacturers

So it makes sense that he dismissed vintage gear at that point, and that he said he couldn't afford vintage instead of admitting that he had written the vintage stuff off.

[JF]

In the 80s it seems he was very much into new (for then) tech and not vintage stuff:

Schecters
Pensas (including synth guitars)
Gibson Chet Atkins
Ovations
Synclavier
Steinberger
New amps from various manufacturers

So it makes sense that he dismissed vintage gear at that point, and that he said he couldn't afford vintage instead of admitting that he had written the vintage stuff off.

yes indeed. eighties were about new tech, for mainly all guitarists

and then in the nineties, the vintage gear came again in fashion, and also the recording gear, analog sounboards etc...

the eighties were about digital recording, drum machines, and synthetisers

the nineties were the return of Big muffs, vintage amps and guitars, and so on..

because of : 1) grunge movement and 2) nostalgia of sixities with people like Kravitz for example

[qjamesfloyd]

I am amazed at the estimate for his 12 string Ovation, considering it was used to record Blind Willie McTell, which is such an historically important song.

[quizzaciously]

I am amazed at the estimate for his 12 string Ovation, considering it was used to record Blind Willie McTell, which is such an historically important song.

I think it was a huge mistake on Christie's side to call it an 'estimate' when in reality it's merely an estimated street price without any connections whatsoever. It accounts for age and average asking price and... That's it. Who cares about it anyway, personally, I never even looked at these numbers and it's strange to see them printed right beside all the guitars on the exhibition as if the price and the act of selling are the main event and the main reason for these guitars existing.

Put a headphone out there, some decent headphones, and play the songs where you can hear the damn thing on a loop, I don't care about the price...

[dustyvalentino]

because of : 1) grunge movement

Yes, it's a little known fact that MK was a huge fan of grunge and of well know 1959 Les Paul player Kurt Cobain in particular

[JF]

because of : 1) grunge movement

Yes, it's a little known fact that MK was a huge fan of grunge and of well know 1959 Les Paul player Kurt Cobain in particular

 

ah ah ah. of course I meant that Grunge was a huge part in fact that guitarists in general wanted to go back to real instruments, and real ones, in contrary of the eighties when a lot of music was a bit "artificial"

for example, Gilmour used Boss stomboxes during eighties, but in 94, he went back to the big muff, and I am quite sure that the grunge movement had a little impact on that choice

[Robson]

Neil Dorfsman about "Love over Gold" (Sound on Sound magazine, May 2006)

I think Mark was at a stage in his career where he was looking to do something other than straightforward rock music, He was always interested in doing a lot of different things. I remember him studying jazz and really woodshedding a lot on his guitar at home, and it knocked me out how adventurous he was, trying to expand his horizons.'

I think these words are still valid.

[dustyvalentino]

Neil Dorfsman about "Love over Gold" (Sound on Sound magazine, May 2006)

I think Mark was at a stage in his career where he was looking to do something other than straightforward rock music, He was always interested in doing a lot of different things. I remember him studying jazz and really woodshedding a lot on his guitar at home, and it knocked me out how adventurous he was, trying to expand his horizons.'

I think these words are still valid.

What evidence do we have that he has tried to expand his guitar playing? All his comments have suggested the opposite.

[quizzaciously]

Neil Dorfsman about "Love over Gold" (Sound on Sound magazine, May 2006)

I think Mark was at a stage in his career where he was looking to do something other than straightforward rock music, He was always interested in doing a lot of different things. I remember him studying jazz and really woodshedding a lot on his guitar at home, and it knocked me out how adventurous he was, trying to expand his horizons.'

I think these words are still valid.

What evidence do we have that he has tried to expand his guitar playing? All his comments have suggested the opposite.

I remember Mark recommending the book "Atomic Power In Every Chord" or something. Well, I bought the book out of sheer interest even though I probably don't really need it, and you can see straight away Mark outright using each chord from page 1 onwards. He really used every chord imaginable in his music, so he studied quite a lot. And always implementing new knowledge into new songs. And yes, Chris, I'm defending Mark again, sorry

Adventurous here means more or less "how this new bit off information can help my songs" rather than "let's do a jazzy polka with 15/16 middle eight and Phrygian tonality" type of experimentation.

[dustyvalentino]

That ties in with the period Dorfsman refers to and ties in with what we know, I was wondering what evidence there is that MK has tried to work in a similar way since then.

[iorch82]

Neil Dorfsman about "Love over Gold" (Sound on Sound magazine, May 2006)

I think Mark was at a stage in his career where he was looking to do something other than straightforward rock music, He was always interested in doing a lot of different things. I remember him studying jazz and really woodshedding a lot on his guitar at home, and it knocked me out how adventurous he was, trying to expand his horizons.'

I think these words are still valid.

What evidence do we have that he has tried to expand his guitar playing? All his comments have suggested the opposite.

I think he improved quite a bit in the mid 80's  early 90's.These improvisations with Atkins are pretty far of his typical Dm tonality comfort zone.

I would say that his most "advanced" guitar playing in terms of scale choice and whatnot can be seen in Planet Of New Orleans, whose solos evolved quite a lot during the OES tour. He was a bit sloppy on quite a few of these though.

[quizzaciously]

I find it absolutely hilarious that the very first pictures from the exhibition are coming from a CEO type. I think all these instruments are doomed.