Pick Withers Interview

[Chris W]

Thank you.

[quizzaciously]

I'm not an MK fanatic by any means, I just look at facts. The fact is almost everybody who worked with the man treats this experience as a highlight of their career or most likely even the best part of it. Read or listen to any interviews. The only people who disagree on this are the ones who tried to battle MK and failed miserably or simply couldn't find a middle ground. I'm sure for Chris working with Mark was a highlight despite all the flaws. How can it NOT be a highlight?

It's the job of regular members of the band to use this experience as a trampoline to their own success, either within the band or on their own. If you don't like Mark and his work ethic, then go and become Mark yourself if you're so smart. For some reason, I don't see a lot of Mark Knopflers running around.

This is sooooo over the top.
For a start Pick left the band. He wanted to pursue different projects. I'm gonna guess he never expected to be a rock star like Mark, or that his other projects would achieve the same success as Dire Straits.
I had many career highlights, probably by far the biggest of which was playing Beatles songs with one of The Beatles, songs that had NEVER been performed live before.
I've played on critically acclaimed hit albums, I've played with Johnny Cash and The Pretenders etc...
As a professional you have to be calm when working with huge stars, so many of us just assess our experience in a calm and reasoned way.
The OES tour was gruelling. Mark was pretty much in a bad mood the entire 14 month tour. This has been well documented before - by Ed Bicknell and John Illsley in various interviews after the fact.
I rank playing with Dire Straits as a career highlight, sure, but it is no more of a highlight than working with McCartney or being in the studio playing on a hit record.
Finally, I have no ambition to be an incredible song writer or a millionaire rock star (I've seen what it does to people). So like many before me, I congratulate Mark on his career and success, but I'm not envious or jealous of him.

Fully agree with Chris here, seems to obvious to me that I never understood why the rest of people doesn't get it...

I don't get what I didn't get here and what's so obvious about it. That for Chris working with Mark Knopfler is not the biggest career highlight? I never stated that. But for some people, it seems like it is. Listen to Chuck Ainlay and how he pretty much compares everybody and every studio to MK's work and studio. And that's a co-producer we are talking about, not even a musician. You can find more examples if you want to.

I'm not trying to kiss MK's butt here, but a lot of people seem to diminish his work as if it's just another musician. It's the songs, man, the songs he wrote. Chris is so lucky to play with all these amazing artists, on these albums and songs, and I'm not an idiot enough to judge which is better. I apologise for being over the top, it's my style. I'm just not satisfied with simple answers, I always dig deeper.

[Jules]

I'm not an MK fanatic by any means, I just look at facts. The fact is almost everybody who worked with the man treats this experience as a highlight of their career or most likely even the best part of it. Read or listen to any interviews. The only people who disagree on this are the ones who tried to battle MK and failed miserably or simply couldn't find a middle ground. I'm sure for Chris working with Mark was a highlight despite all the flaws. How can it NOT be a highlight?

It's the job of regular members of the band to use this experience as a trampoline to their own success, either within the band or on their own. If you don't like Mark and his work ethic, then go and become Mark yourself if you're so smart. For some reason, I don't see a lot of Mark Knopflers running around.

This is sooooo over the top.
For a start Pick left the band. He wanted to pursue different projects. I'm gonna guess he never expected to be a rock star like Mark, or that his other projects would achieve the same success as Dire Straits.
I had many career highlights, probably by far the biggest of which was playing Beatles songs with one of The Beatles, songs that had NEVER been performed live before.
I've played on critically acclaimed hit albums, I've played with Johnny Cash and The Pretenders etc...
As a professional you have to be calm when working with huge stars, so many of us just assess our experience in a calm and reasoned way.
The OES tour was gruelling. Mark was pretty much in a bad mood the entire 14 month tour. This has been well documented before - by Ed Bicknell and John Illsley in various interviews after the fact.
I rank playing with Dire Straits as a career highlight, sure, but it is no more of a highlight than working with McCartney or being in the studio playing on a hit record.
Finally, I have no ambition to be an incredible song writer or a millionaire rock star (I've seen what it does to people). So like many before me, I congratulate Mark on his career and success, but I'm not envious or jealous of him.

Fully agree with Chris here, seems to obvious to me that I never understood why the rest of people doesn't get it...

I don't get what I didn't get here and what's so obvious about it. That for Chris working with Mark Knopfler is not the biggest career highlight? I never stated that. But for some people, it seems like it is. Listen to Chuck Ainlay and how he pretty much compares everybody and every studio to MK's work and studio. And that's a co-producer we are talking about, not even a musician. You can find more examples if you want to.

I'm not trying to kiss MK's butt here, but a lot of people seem to diminish his work as if it's just another musician. It's the songs, man, the songs he wrote. Chris is so lucky to play with all these amazing artists, on these albums and songs, and I'm not an idiot enough to judge which is better. I apologise for being over the top, it's my style. I'm just not satisfied with simple answers, I always dig deeper.

Well, to play with DS and/or MK is not the biggest career highlight for any session player who work with them/him despite how much you and I could think he's the best. It can be a highlight for someone like Jack Sonni that didn't play with any other, but for the proffesional musicians who play with them? Some yes, some not.

Richard Bennett played half of his career with Neil Diamond and the other half with MK with thousands of the biggest stars of the NAshville scene in betwen. Is MK his bigest career highlight? It's a highlight of course, and probably the biggest as they are close friends, but thats probably true for Neil Diamond.

I use to laugh quite a lot when someone tell me, that saddly happens a lot, that nobody would know Phil Palmer if he didn't played for Dire Straits. I always answer, no, YOU won't know Phil Palmer if he didn't played for DS. He was already well known for playing with Eric Clapton, he also played for Tina Turner, recorded with everyone in the UK and also was musical director for George Michael from long time! Was DS the biggest career highlight for him? In his words, that was Clapton. Yes, DS was a highlight, probably one of the bigs in his long career. The biggest? Not, certainly not.

Same with Chris Whitten. It's quite obvious that someone who played for Paul McCartney, that's his biggest career highlight for sure. DS? yes of course, a big highlight, the biggest? no. He also played with many important bands mostly in the studio so many highlights in his career already. He even played from a Spanish band from where I live, Valencia, names "Presuntos Implicados"!

Thats what is obvious for me and that's what I don't get anyone else doesn't understand. The fact that we love DS and MK doesn't means that they are the biggest career highlight to anyone who played with them.

[Love Expresso]

MK as a songwriter is put on a throne by his fans but he is a good craftsman at the most, he is not relevant when it comes to the best or most influencal songwriters. When his guitar playing thing declined, he needed a new label for what he stands for and he chose to be a "songwriter". But he never is in the same league as Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Leonard Cohen, Joni Mitchell, Elton John, even Abba, Billy Joel,.and and and. It's just not relevant. His lyrics illustrate stuff and he has a way with words but his songs never are able to reach the hearts of a global audience.  There is not one single song from his solo catalogue which would have the same impact than songs from all those classics I listed above. Ok, Romeo and Juliet, that one will stay. It's obvious that people at AMIT don't see it that way but if you take a wider look, I guess you might agree to a certain extent.

LE

[quizzaciously]

Hey jbaent, I think you are steering the discussion to where it was never supposed to go. I only used the "biggest highlight" argument as a defence to "thinking of MK as a regular member of DS". It's obvious that for a good session musician their whole work life is a highlight, no matter who they are playing with.

I meant that how on Earth Mark can be thought of as a regular member when everything depended on him, he wrote and produced all the songs, sang them and played lead guitar as well. The thought of this simply blows my mind.

Ironically enough, all the people you've mentioned would drop anything they do and say "yes" the instant MK asked them to join him on tour or in the studio. That's the idea I'm trying to convey in all my long-ass messages.

[herlock]

MK as a songwriter is put on a throne by his fans but he is a good craftsman at the most, he is not relevant when it comes to the best or most influencal songwriters. When his guitar playing thing declined, he needed a new label for what he stands for and he chose to be a "songwriter". But he never is in the same league as Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Leonard Cohen, Joni Mitchell, Elton John, even Abba, Billy Joel,.and and and. It's just not relevant. His lyrics illustrate stuff and he has a way with words but his songs never are able to reach the hearts of a global audience.  There is not one single song from his solo catalogue which would have the same impact than songs from all those classics I listed above. Ok, Romeo and Juliet, that one will stay. It's obvious that people at AMIT don't see it that way but if you take a wider look, I guess you might agree to a certain extent.

LE

A bit harsh a statement.
Sultans, MFN, WOL, Brothers are very well known by the crowds.
TOL, TR, PI are very well known by average music lovers.
When I was a high-school student in France, the lyrics of TR were studied in English courses, and analysed to explain US building and history.
As for his solo career, What it is was a hit, and Speedway is very popular,

In 2011 I've been to see MK and Bob Dylan, with a girl friend of mine... We both came with a open mind, I didn't know much about Bob, the girl didn't know anything about either Mark or Bob. We both enjoyed Marks very much, and despite our open mind, Bob managed to get us leave the venue before the end of the concert...   

[quizzaciously]

MK as a songwriter is put on a throne by his fans but he is a good craftsman at the most, he is not relevant when it comes to the best or most influencal songwriters. When his guitar playing thing declined, he needed a new label for what he stands for and he chose to be a "songwriter". But he never is in the same league as Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Leonard Cohen, Joni Mitchell, Elton John, even Abba, Billy Joel,.and and and. It's just not relevant. His lyrics illustrate stuff and he has a way with words but his songs never are able to reach the hearts of a global audience.  There is not one single song from his solo catalogue which would have the same impact than songs from all those classics I listed above. Ok, Romeo and Juliet, that one will stay. It's obvious that people at AMIT don't see it that way but if you take a wider look, I guess you might agree to a certain extent.

LE

A bit harsh a statement.
Sultans, MFN, WOL, Brothers are very well known by the crowds.
TOL, TR, PI are very well known by average music lovers.
When I was a high-school student in France, the lyrics of TR were studied in English courses, and analysed to explain US building and history.
As for his solo career, What it is was a hit, and Speedway is very popular,

In 2011 I've been to see MK and Bob Dylan, with a girl friend of mine... We both came with a open mind, I didn't know much about Bob, the girl didn't know anything about either Mark or Bob. We both enjoyed Marks very much, and despite our open mind, Bob managed to get us leave the venue before the end of the concert...

And Mark steered away from fame, appearances on TV and awards for a reason. The guy made the Brothers In Arms album. It's filled with hits. Trust me, should he want it, he could be ridiculously famous and "regarded" as a great songwriter, but chose the road less travelled instead.

All the people you've mentioned are household names exactly because they are everywhere and treated as legends, writing good songs also doesn't hurt of course. Mark also writes good songs. Commercial success / Recognition / Fame / Quality of Songs are all so different terms.

As somebody who has worked on Mark's songs almost on a daily basis for 7 years, I can assure you it's way, way, way more underrated than people think.

[Chris W]

And Mark steered away from fame, appearances on TV and awards for a reason. The guy made the Brothers In Arms album. It's filled with hits. Trust me, should he want it, he could be ridiculously famous and "regarded" as a great songwriter, but chose the road less travelled instead.

He was able to step away because he had done everything there was to be done in stadium rock. He was wealthy enough to never need to work again.
So no sacrifices on his part. He looked uncomfortable playing MFN at the stadium gigs, in his mind he had already moved on.
MK didn't need to work with John or Allan any more, or be compelled to play MFN, Solid Rock, Walk Of Life etc... That's why he went solo. All he retained was Guy as a trusted side kick.
You don't know why he didn't attend awards ceremonies, you are just making assumptions.

[Chris W]

Ironically enough, all the people you've mentioned would drop anything they do and say "yes" the instant MK asked them to join him on tour or in the studio. That's the idea I'm trying to convey in all my long-ass messages.

But not Jeff Porcaro or Manu Katche.
NO ONE is saying Mark is average. Of course he is one of popular music's greatest artists and song writers. But at the same time, you only get one life, and many of us would not work with someone for a year, two years, a decade, JUST so that some of their stardust (and money) rubs off on us.
At the end of the day, if it makes you happy to play fusion/jazz in front of 200 people, that's what you should do. And that's I think what Pick decided he needed to do to be happy.

[Jules]

Hey jbaent, I think you are steering the discussion to where it was never supposed to go. I only used the "biggest highlight" argument as a defence to "thinking of MK as a regular member of DS". It's obvious that for a good session musician their whole work life is a highlight, no matter who they are playing with.

I meant that how on Earth Mark can be thought of as a regular member when everything depended on him, he wrote and produced all the songs, sang them and played lead guitar as well. The thought of this simply blows my mind.

Ironically enough, all the people you've mentioned would drop anything they do and say "yes" the instant MK asked them to join him on tour or in the studio. That's the idea I'm trying to convey in all my long-ass messages.

Well, that's my fault then as I'm too lazy to read all messages to catch the whole plot, lol.

MK can't be a regular member when he's the writer of the songs, the singer and main guitar player. But when you are in a band, you are a member of the band. The most important one? Yes, of course. Actually since the start of the band as a four members bands till the end as a 8th members band, he was with John the only one remaining, but at that point the band was more a brand than a band.

However, as Chris stated, two of the most renowned drummers in the 90's scene said no to MK, also Vince Gill who was to be one of the biggest things in country scene, so, not everyone would drop whatever they were doing to join MK. They did in the studio, yes, because they refuse the live slot in the band.

[Robson]

Hey jbaent, I think you are steering the discussion to where it was never supposed to go. I only used the "biggest highlight" argument as a defence to "thinking of MK as a regular member of DS". It's obvious that for a good session musician their whole work life is a highlight, no matter who they are playing with.

I meant that how on Earth Mark can be thought of as a regular member when everything depended on him, he wrote and produced all the songs, sang them and played lead guitar as well. The thought of this simply blows my mind.

Ironically enough, all the people you've mentioned would drop anything they do and say "yes" the instant MK asked them to join him on tour or in the studio. That's the idea I'm trying to convey in all my long-ass messages.

I think the same.

[Robson]

"Mark was pretty much in a bad mood the entire 14 month tour"

Is it possible? 

[dustyvalentino]

Speaking of MK's mood, Chris do you have any memories of the infamous sausages incident as recalled here by Phil Palmer?

There is the sausages story of Dire Straits. Basically we’d been in America for a while, at least 6 weeks or something and everyone was really really tired of the food and wanted something a bit more interesting. So we were doing a gig in Canada and the caterers found a Marks & Spencer there and they bought all the pork sausages that they could find to feed the crew and we’d heard about this before we even got to the gig. We were saying “they’ve found pork sausages and we’re having sausages, mash, baked beans and fried onions for dinner tonight”, and everyone was incredibly excited about that. So we got to the gig and did the sound check and then we went to have dinner and it was fantastic. We had English mustard and onion gravy and everything was just perfect. But Mark and I think John [Illsley] decided, which was quite normal for them, that they were gonna save theirs and have it afterwards. So two plates were put aside for Mark and John both with three or four sausages and they would just microwave it after. But, when they came off stage there was only 2 sausages on Mark’s plate… and he was extremely upset. So he had all the crew marched in one by one and questioned them. I have a vivid picture in my mind of him: he still had his headband on and he was soaking wet in the dressing room, pissed off, and he said to each crew member one by one “Have you eaten my sausages? Because if I find out who it is they’re on the next plane home”, and of course nobody owned up to it and the evening went by and it was forgotten about. But the next gig which was a couple days later we arrived at the gig and Mark was still pretty angry about the sausages but the crew decided they would try and make a joke out of it. So they printed out a new set list with all new songs on it and it said things like ‘Romeo and Sausages’, ‘Money for Sausages’, ‘Sultans of sausages’ etc. And I remember Mark looking down at it and he was still pretty angry and he tore it to shreds and that’s the end of the story but I do know now 20 years later who it was that ate the sausages…

https://olipalmer1.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/interview-with-phil-palmer-180213/

[Chris W]

FWIW, I don't remember that amount of anger, I don't remember Mark being the main one angry, and I don't remember the 'investigation' the next day.
I have a photo of the spoof set list though - very funny.

[dustyvalentino]

FWIW, I don't remember that amount of anger, I don't remember Mark being the main one angry, and I don't remember the 'investigation' the next day.
I have a photo of the spoof set list though - very funny.

Thank you, I guess just one of these tales that grows arms and legs over the years