New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!

[Chris W]

Yeah, that hit me for six.
I spoke with him for over two hours just before Christmas. He was full of beans, talking about future projects, asking me to drop in and see him some time.
I always thought he would be there as long as I was alive. But now he's gone, which reminds you of the fragility of life.

[hunter v2.0]

Replacing the drums on a "live" recording isn't fakery?

Because you didn't read my post. The drums were not, NEVER were replaced. Samples were mixed in below the level of my real drums.
I'm not even sure they were, but I would not be surprised.
Once you put a microphone on an instrument you are changing the sound. You can eq and congress the drums, you can also mix in a fatter, more refined sample instead of just EQ'ing it.
It's still me playing, it's still at least 50% my sound.

Thank you for the clarification.

I'd still rather just hear your actual drums though. Mixing in a sample is fakery to me but we can agree to disagree.

But is it more fake than adding chorus to a guitar signal? Or using an octave pedal? Or stacking overdrives? Or - using digital modellers?

[dustyvalentino]

Replacing the drums on a "live" recording isn't fakery?

Because you didn't read my post. The drums were not, NEVER were replaced. Samples were mixed in below the level of my real drums.
I'm not even sure they were, but I would not be surprised.
Once you put a microphone on an instrument you are changing the sound. You can eq and congress the drums, you can also mix in a fatter, more refined sample instead of just EQ'ing it.
It's still me playing, it's still at least 50% my sound.

Thank you for the clarification.

I'd still rather just hear your actual drums though. Mixing in a sample is fakery to me but we can agree to disagree.

But is it more fake than adding chorus to a guitar signal? Or using an octave pedal? Or stacking overdrives? Or - using digital modellers?

To me it is - in all those instances the musician is still playing the instrument.

[Chris W]

Yeah, I am STILL playing the instrument. Why would you think not???
The playing sounds exactly the same with or without samples, the sample is just like adding some great EQ

[Chris W]

This exactly explains the typical process. It's a sweetener, not a cheat or a way to fix badly played, bad sounding drums:

https://youtu.be/XwDxJS7MfAY?si=9rq7g8DIj4c1oK9Q

[dustyvalentino]

You seem to take my opinion as some sort of criticism of your drumming which it absolutely is not, the opposite in fact.

I'd prefer to hear just your drums, as per the Basel bootleg for example.

[Chris W]

To me it is - in all those instances the musician is still playing the instrument.

Noooooo.
I'm neither taking it personally or as a criticism. You clearly posted that it was fakery and heavily implied (above) that I wasn't playing the instrument.
Compared to the mix on On The night, 'in all those instances' of guitar pedals etc, the 'musician is still paying the instrument'.
So in the case of the On The Night album I'm still playing the instrument and the audio on the record is me still playing the instrument.
Just trying to get the facts straight here.

[dustyvalentino]

To me it is - in all those instances the musician is still playing the instrument.

Noooooo.
I'm neither taking it personally or as a criticism. You clearly posted that it was fakery and heavily implied (above) that I wasn't playing the instrument.
Compared to the mix on On The night, 'in all those instances' of guitar pedals etc, the 'musician is still paying the instrument'.
So in the case of the On The Night album I'm still playing the instrument and the audio on the record is me still playing the instrument.
Just trying to get the facts straight here.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that at all.

But mixing fake drums in with your real drums is still fakery to me.

[quizzaciously]

To me it is - in all those instances the musician is still playing the instrument.

Noooooo.
I'm neither taking it personally or as a criticism. You clearly posted that it was fakery and heavily implied (above) that I wasn't playing the instrument.
Compared to the mix on On The night, 'in all those instances' of guitar pedals etc, the 'musician is still paying the instrument'.
So in the case of the On The Night album I'm still playing the instrument and the audio on the record is me still playing the instrument.
Just trying to get the facts straight here.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that at all.

But mixing fake drums in with your real drums is still fakery to me.

I had a professor in university who refused to listen to recorded music because "we don't listen to music with our ears pointed at sound sources like microphones". The guy only visited unplugged classic music performances. I'm dead serious.

To somebody like him all recorded music is fakery I mean fakery in music is a big subject, in this case I think it's more or less a little enhancement of a live sound. They didn't have a week to move microphones Guy Fletcher style, you see!

[Peter1981]

Oh come on, it isn’t fakery. It’s got everything to do with the recording/mic placement of an instrument, nothing with altering what’s being played.
I am a producer and mixer and especially with live recordings this happens all the time. I do it all the time. Mostly just because there’s to much bleed from other instruments and the snare sample sounds dry, so you can make the overall mix less ambient. Turn the overheads down in the process as well.
I have to say, listening to Ahead of the game, it sounds to me there’s also a snare sample added there. I’m pretty sure I’m hearing a slightly different sounding snare in the overhead mics than the close snare sounds.
Sound good though, so who cares?
For what it’s worth, On the night sounds great as well. Slick, not pure; true. But it does spark a certain special emotion. To me, at least. So all good in my book. Triggered samples or not, whatever!
On the subject; I grew up with that record, so thanks you Chris W!

To me it is - in all those instances the musician is still playing the instrument.

Noooooo.
I'm neither taking it personally or as a criticism. You clearly posted that it was fakery and heavily implied (above) that I wasn't playing the instrument.
Compared to the mix on On The night, 'in all those instances' of guitar pedals etc, the 'musician is still paying the instrument'.
So in the case of the On The Night album I'm still playing the instrument and the audio on the record is me still playing the instrument.
Just trying to get the facts straight here.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that at all.

But mixing fake drums in with your real drums is still fakery to me.

[Banjo99uk]

To me it is - in all those instances the musician is still playing the instrument.

Noooooo.
I'm neither taking it personally or as a criticism. You clearly posted that it was fakery and heavily implied (above) that I wasn't playing the instrument.
Compared to the mix on On The night, 'in all those instances' of guitar pedals etc, the 'musician is still paying the instrument'.
So in the case of the On The Night album I'm still playing the instrument and the audio on the record is me still playing the instrument.
Just trying to get the facts straight here.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that at all.

But mixing fake drums in with your real drums is still fakery to me.

I had a professor in university who refused to listen to recorded music because "we don't listen to music with our ears pointed at sound sources like microphones". The guy only visited unplugged classic music performances. I'm dead serious.

To somebody like him all recorded music is fakery I mean fakery in music is a big subject, in this case I think it's more or less a little enhancement of a live sound. They didn't have a week to move microphones Guy Fletcher style, you see!

My Dad used to tell me that if a singer used a microphone he couldn’t sing properly. Horses for courses. He also said if you couldn’t whistle the melody it wasn’t a song. Very old school, needless to say he thought MK was utter shite.

[dustyvalentino]

To me it is - in all those instances the musician is still playing the instrument.

Noooooo.
I'm neither taking it personally or as a criticism. You clearly posted that it was fakery and heavily implied (above) that I wasn't playing the instrument.
Compared to the mix on On The night, 'in all those instances' of guitar pedals etc, the 'musician is still paying the instrument'.
So in the case of the On The Night album I'm still playing the instrument and the audio on the record is me still playing the instrument.
Just trying to get the facts straight here.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that at all.

But mixing fake drums in with your real drums is still fakery to me.

I had a professor in university who refused to listen to recorded music because "we don't listen to music with our ears pointed at sound sources like microphones". The guy only visited unplugged classic music performances. I'm dead serious.

To somebody like him all recorded music is fakery I mean fakery in music is a big subject, in this case I think it's more or less a little enhancement of a live sound. They didn't have a week to move microphones Guy Fletcher style, you see!

My Dad used to tell me that if a singer used a microphone he couldn’t sing properly. Horses for courses. He also said if you couldn’t whistle the melody it wasn’t a song. Very old school, needless to say he thought MK was utter shite.

Lol

[Chris W]

But mixing fake drums in with your real drums is still fakery to me.

They aren't fake drums they are drum samples. You can think it's fakery if you like, but it's been standard practice on many records since the early 1980's. And the player still has to play to the best of their ability.

[dustyvalentino]

But mixing fake drums in with your real drums is still fakery to me.

They aren't fake drums they are drum samples. You can think it's fakery if you like, but it's been standard practice on many records since the early 1980's. And the player still has to play to the best of their ability.

Again, I offer no criticism of your playing which is obviously top drawer. If you have the inclination you can trawl through my posts over the last 15 years and I’m confident you won’t find anything to the contrary. What I’m saying is I would rather hear just your playing, without the samples, as per the various bootlegs and presumably the added OTN tracks.

[quizzaciously]

To me it is - in all those instances the musician is still playing the instrument.

Noooooo.
I'm neither taking it personally or as a criticism. You clearly posted that it was fakery and heavily implied (above) that I wasn't playing the instrument.
Compared to the mix on On The night, 'in all those instances' of guitar pedals etc, the 'musician is still paying the instrument'.
So in the case of the On The Night album I'm still playing the instrument and the audio on the record is me still playing the instrument.
Just trying to get the facts straight here.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that at all.

But mixing fake drums in with your real drums is still fakery to me.

I had a professor in university who refused to listen to recorded music because "we don't listen to music with our ears pointed at sound sources like microphones". The guy only visited unplugged classic music performances. I'm dead serious.

To somebody like him all recorded music is fakery I mean fakery in music is a big subject, in this case I think it's more or less a little enhancement of a live sound. They didn't have a week to move microphones Guy Fletcher style, you see!

My Dad used to tell me that if a singer used a microphone he couldn’t sing properly. Horses for courses. He also said if you couldn’t whistle the melody it wasn’t a song. Very old school, needless to say he thought MK was utter shite.

Lol

Jokes aside, I agree with Banjo99uk's Dad, especially in whistling the melody department. I'm very old school and seem to have been born in the wrong country and at the wrong time, and I'm constantly going around whistling old show tunes, jazz standards and arias from operas. As you can guess, rarely when I do whistle Mark's songs as they are extremely economical with great melodies, so nothing in these words I find wrong. Even Mark himself admitted he's not a good melody writer.