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Author Topic: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!  (Read 138713 times)

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1140 on: December 15, 2023, 03:44:17 PM »
Hi, guys and gals. Me hunter :) I didn't plan to return; it's nice out there, off SoMe. But I just had to:

@Quizzaciously: Can you just stop already? The rants and conjecturing and stuff? It is painful to read. And FYI: People do change.

Then prove me wrong instead of attacking me personally and telling me what to do. On this forum, I've been a target for such attacks for a long time, and even left AMIT because of that, other people left the forum because of that, and then I returned, and I see you return. And now I'm enjoying the marvellous attempts of Chris Whitten to call me an idiot without actually doing so. But it's not how discussion works, you see.

If people DO change, why has nobody on this forum ever changed? I've been a regular visitor and contributor here for more than a decade maybe, and nobody ever changed here either. You can take a 10-year-old post from a user and see no real change. If people do change, why does Mark keep telling the same things in interviews over and over for 40 years now? Give me examples, give me thoughts, give me analysis, not a middle finger.

Offlineborder_reiver

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1141 on: December 15, 2023, 04:16:02 PM »
Now, now gentlemen.

I've enjoyed this thread immensely since the start of it. Let's keep it that way.  :)
"My idea of heaven is a place where the Tyne meets the Delta, where folk music meets the blues."

Offlinequizzaciously

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1142 on: December 15, 2023, 04:26:01 PM »
The point is that you can just as easily flip these things around. You claim he did everything right. Maybe he did everything wrong? As you said, it's all guesswork, and there's no reason why the guesses should be in one direction or the other. GIven what we know, I think it's pretty safe to say that there were plenty of mistakes made. It might not have been a good idea to tour at all, in the long run. But, it would be weird if they didn't make any good moves, either.

I should also add that the OES tour wasn't all that long compared to what many other artists do. Proof: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_concert_tours - so no need to exaggerate the fact that it was 14 months long (+ prep). It's actually quite common.

Maybe you live in a different country,  but around here, we have many people leave their families for a few weeks at the time to go work offshore. I have yet to hear of this being an issue, simply because everything is carefully planned and the whole concept and it's potential issues (i.e. related to personal relations) are reasonably well understood. Just as you would imagine MK & crew would plan the OES tour properly, and be well aware of their own experience from the BIA tour and also the tours done by other artists (pretty sure MK is friends with some of those and would have been able to ask for advice if needed). If this indeed took it's toll on some personal relations, then that's because of bad decisions being made (at least in hindsight).

"...and things snowballed out of control." - Well, who's in charge of that, if it's true? MK, no?

That's a good question. I guess you can control a snowball, but you can't be in charge of an avalanche when it happens. You just accept it and prevent it from happening again if you get lucky enough to survive. I mean a man like MK can potentially have control over many things, but there are also financial, contractual, and psychological obligations, physical limitations, build-up of obligations, emotions, fatigue, problems with private life, family, and a million different factors.

That's why I'm trying to say MK is a human after all, and yes, mistakes are what make us humans, but it's how you react to mistakes and deal with them later on that matters. Judging by the fact we haven't heard anything from Dire Straits from 1993 (live at the BBC album released to please the contract doesn't count), and the fact the titular hero of this forum barely returns to this band in any shape or form, and that everyone agrees it's likely gone for good, he doesn't want this avalanche to repeat.

As for long tours, I still don't think it's a good idea to tour for so long. Why not do fewer shows or tours, and just spread it across a longer period? Like Bob Dylan, like Van Morrison. Mark got stuck in the album-tour formula and it's one of the major reasons he stopped touring now I think, apart from health and other concerns. Because if he releases an album, he needs to tour with as many shows as possible, it's what he has been doing for all his artistic life. Album, tour, album, tour, album, tour. And the tour has to be big because kids these days can't do it, but Mark sure can.

Sting expressed similar feelings towards large-scale tours of The Police. Marriages breaking down, tension building and spilling over the top, and band members barely surviving the experience themselves. It's all a build-up of a lot of things, I don't think anyone has ever dreamed about doing 365 shows a year. Music is not a sport, but damn, it feels like it sometimes is a sport with all this "who's bigger" attitude and measurements of revenue figures, managers and hunger for money.

Offlinehunter v2.0

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1143 on: December 15, 2023, 05:04:05 PM »
Jesus, Mary and Joseph  ::)

Offlinesuperval99

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1144 on: December 15, 2023, 05:40:49 PM »
Jesus, Mary and Joseph  ::)

Welcome back Hunter!    ;D
Goin' into Tow Law....

OfflineMatchstickman

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1145 on: December 15, 2023, 07:16:18 PM »
Guys, some seem to be taking this too personally. People are free to disagree after all.

14 months of touring is extreme, regardless of other bands. A marathon or a military tour in a foreign land is extremely demanding on body and mind regardless of how many other runners or military personnel there are.

The OES tour was the tour that BIA could have been but never quite was. They must always have been aware of the fact that they could have done a stadium tour in 1985. It would have been more logical.

OfflineMatchstickman

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1146 on: December 15, 2023, 08:24:20 PM »
Mark was a multi-millionaire after BIA. That much is a fact. OES tour as primarily a money-grab does not seem logical. He did not need it, and could have released a BIA live album or whatever to make easy money.

Of course we do not know, but a combination of playing live (which he likes), status, money and an escape from personal trouble seems more likely.

OfflineJF

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1147 on: December 15, 2023, 09:12:28 PM »

History is history, but I always felt it could be a better idea to leave DS after BiA and make On Every Street the first solo album, how cool is that?

 :clap :thumbsup +1000

Yes I always felt the same, like I said in many of my chronicles.
The Mandela gig would habe been the perfect last show for DS to say farewell

And I am sure that DS would have a more "cult" status now in rock history

The "comeback" in 91 gave to the band a more "commercial" image imho

OfflineRobson

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1148 on: December 15, 2023, 09:17:58 PM »
 "commercial" image ?

What do you mean?
I know the way I can see by the moonlight
Clear as the day
Now come on woman, come follow me home

OfflineJF

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1149 on: December 15, 2023, 10:02:34 PM »
"commercial" image ?

What do you mean?

adds with Philips for OES album, articles in every magazine, CE on radio...

Yes I know it was already the case in 85-86, but teh OES era has a more "mainstream" feeling to me

when you talk about DS with other people, I feel that this comeback had a bad image, and this is why DS is not in the same category as other bands in rock history imho

OfflineRobson

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1150 on: December 15, 2023, 10:13:12 PM »
For many, the album on every street is country music.
I know the way I can see by the moonlight
Clear as the day
Now come on woman, come follow me home

OfflineChris W

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1151 on: December 16, 2023, 09:58:59 AM »

He did thanked all the musicians and crew during the Zaragoza concert, there is an audience recording of it and you can hear how he thanks everyone but, yes, I agree that he should had made it more personally than that.

That is show biz. He really needed the personal touch - which was my point.

OfflineChris W

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1152 on: December 16, 2023, 10:01:20 AM »
Mark was a multi-millionaire after BIA. That much is a fact. OES tour as primarily a money-grab does not seem logical. He did not need it, and could have released a BIA live album or whatever to make easy money.


You weren't there.
People always want more money don't they. But IMO Mark thought he was doing something good for John, Alan and Guy and didn't forsee how miserable it was going to make him until it was too late and we had embarked on a 1.5 year journey.

OfflineChris W

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1153 on: December 16, 2023, 10:05:47 AM »
He never had a party after the BIA tour either.  You can even see him after the show running off stage, jumping into a Porsche and driving away during the broadcast. 

First they were having a party on stage overnight, instead of Mark looking depressed. Second, they were staying at a hotel about a 15 minute drive from the gig. It was a well known rock and roll, party hotel. So I am sure everyone had fun after the show back at the hotel. And Mark thanked everyone for all their efforts.
People seem to be focussing on the word 'party'. I could care less about a party. I'm saying that after a tortuous and very long tour, when the band and crew worked extremely hard, it was not right to walk off sage leaving the crew behind, then flying in silence back to a different city, and arriving back to a dark and deserted hotel. NONE of which happened after the last show on the BIA tour.

OfflineChris W

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #1154 on: December 16, 2023, 11:53:57 AM »
It's no biggie....
I'm just saying on a very long tour where everyone went the extra mile to make it a success, largely rewarding Mark and John, it was notable that they never showed any appreciation for it, especially towards the end. It's just a point worth making.
It's easier to go the extra mile when everyone on stage is having a great time and your album is breaking records on the charts (Brothers In Arms).

 

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