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Author Topic: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!  (Read 139709 times)

Offlineonceupon84

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #150 on: September 16, 2023, 10:28:45 PM »
Another theory:

Leave 1984 Alchemy "as is" and mix the new tracks in 1984 "old sound style" (maybe both complete nights were mixed originally in 1984 "style"?)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2023, 10:31:19 PM by onceupon84 »

Onlinethe visitor

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #151 on: September 16, 2023, 10:38:48 PM »
Here's a theory. Why don't we wait until the box set is released and actually hear the tracks rather than jumping to conclusions and moaning about what isn't and is on the tracks.

Still grateful. Stop moaning

Offlineonceupon84

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #152 on: September 16, 2023, 10:42:33 PM »
Here's a theory. Why don't we wait until the box set is released and actually hear the tracks rather than jumping to conclusions and moaning about what isn't and is on the tracks.

Still grateful. Stop moaning

We've got a killjoy in the forum  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offlineherlock

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #153 on: September 16, 2023, 10:43:49 PM »
Here's a theory. Why don't we wait until the box set is released rather than jumping to conclusions and moaninf about what isn't and is on the tracks.

Still grateful. Stop moaning
There is no need to listen to it to conclude with 100% certainty that a 14 minutes song cannot fit in a 7 minutes track without being heavily cut. Especially when the length (7'22) exactly matches the description ("Extended intro", that is to say, no outro).

And I will certainly not stop "moaning" just because you ask me to. This is a wasted opportunity, I can't see any excuse for this. We have every reason to "moan", even though this release is very appreciated on the whole...

Offlineherlock

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #154 on: September 16, 2023, 10:45:45 PM »
The guitar and sax duel was probably not recorded when you ask Guy ::)

What a dissapointment... We asked him last year... its all about the last part... sigh
Everything would have been recorded but the PB outro?? C'mon !

Offlineherlock

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #155 on: September 16, 2023, 10:47:47 PM »
Listening to 2010 SOS and then 2022 PB they sound very similar to stay together.
2010 version is too compressed, but it is not mix issue, it is mastering issue, they can balance it.

Maybe both alchemy nights were remixed "definitively" in 2010 and Guy take it from vault first to MFN 2022 compilation and now for this?
Normal procedure is to get all recordings well mixed and saved, then cut or made edits for different uses.

EDIT: Guy mixed 2010 version? Or Chuck?
Too compressed, you mean brickwalled? Really The blu Ray sounds really awesome on my hi-fi, much better than the album, lots of details... This is very obvious on TOL and TR.

Offlineds1984

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #156 on: September 16, 2023, 10:48:47 PM »
I agree with the visitor.

Maybe the provided timing are just plain wrong.

So better is to wait to be able to listen to the real thing before moaning.
The haters are those who write shit

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OfflineDutchessy

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #157 on: September 16, 2023, 10:50:19 PM »
The guitar and sax duel was probably not recorded when you ask Guy ::)

What a dissapointment... We asked him last year... its all about the last part... sigh
Everything would have been recorded but the PB outro?? C'mon !

Sarcasme... Guy gave us that answer when asked about PONO...
Proud member of the AMIT crew

Offlineherlock

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #158 on: September 16, 2023, 10:54:22 PM »
The guitar and sax duel was probably not recorded when you ask Guy ::)

What a dissapointment... We asked him last year... its all about the last part... sigh
Everything would have been recorded but the PB outro?? C'mon !

Sarcasme... Guy gave us that answer when asked about PONO...
Well, in the case of PONO, this is indeed possible. PONO was not played every night in Paris, and we have no clue which night(s) were recorded out of 7. For this, I give him the benefit of the doubt...
But if they recorded a night, for sure, they recorded the full night. Wouldn't make sense otherwise!

Offlineonceupon84

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #159 on: September 16, 2023, 10:55:58 PM »
Listening to 2010 SOS and then 2022 PB they sound very similar to stay together.
2010 version is too compressed, but it is not mix issue, it is mastering issue, they can balance it.

Maybe both alchemy nights were remixed "definitively" in 2010 and Guy take it from vault first to MFN 2022 compilation and now for this?
Normal procedure is to get all recordings well mixed and saved, then cut or made edits for different uses.

EDIT: Guy mixed 2010 version? Or Chuck?
Too compressed, you mean brickwalled? Really The blu Ray sounds really awesome on my hi-fi, much better than the album, lots of details... This is very obvious on TOL and TR.

Right, brickwalled.
But 2010 mix it's much better and modern, I'm with you.

Offlineherlock

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #160 on: September 16, 2023, 10:56:50 PM »
I agree with the visitor.

Maybe the provided timing are just plain wrong.

So better is to wait to be able to listen to the real thing before moaning.
That's why I wrote that I hope that this is a mistake.
But I highly doubt it.
All the timings are consistant with what we already have, and PB length matches its description. A mistake would make things inconsistent...
So, sorry, still moaning.

Offlineonceupon84

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #161 on: September 17, 2023, 12:00:36 AM »
The new alchemy 2023 mistake edition:

-Altered tracklist (TR and SR swapped) - I think it can be because of vinyl edition... but maybe another real mistake.
-Extended versions of TR, SR and GH (it is a joke?) - I think they might say 'unreleased versions of ID, TBTP and PB'
-Full length performance of PB (edited in 1998!) another joke??? - They consider outro and musicians presentation with no value.


Remember that MFN 2022 streamable edition was corrected (alternate SOS, TBTP non remix and TR studio version with unedited outro were retired and well replaced).

The YT promo video for this new box-set shows TWICE "ENCORES" -another BUG- they might say OTN and Encores

Today they retired SOS Rainbow '79 promo video on YT because they put SOS audio from alchemy...

All the information we have about this release has a lot of mistakes.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2023, 12:33:44 AM by onceupon84 »

Offlinemschaap

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #162 on: September 17, 2023, 09:09:04 AM »
As I interprete Guy's answer about the Alchemy mix/mastering, it is not the 2010 mix they used, he clearly states he used the original source. Original means the 1984 mix, 2010 is a remix and therefore not the original.
This would be a waste, the 2010 mix is better but sounds too much compressed, however the latter I would attribute to the mastering proces. So remastring in 2023 would be prefect, if only they would have used the right mix....
« Last Edit: September 17, 2023, 09:53:50 AM by mschaap »

OfflineMarnix

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #163 on: September 17, 2023, 09:45:16 AM »
And if I look at the times from the new on the night album I see they still left out the teasing intro with the audience of “Money for nothing”

Offlineonceupon84

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Re: New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!
« Reply #164 on: September 17, 2023, 09:51:55 AM »
I'm going to give my definitive opinion on Alchemy

This album is terribly important for all fans, I don't know the reasons why it was not released in its entirety in 1984, I suppose because at that time it was not time to publish the 3 songs that were left out (commercial decision, or MK's?), since CD existed as a medium and it was easy to fit all the tracks together.

The correct option, in my opinion, would have been to remix the entire original album in 2023 and include the 3 songs in their entirety, the entire concert without cuts, include TOL's speech, include fragments of R&J that are not even in the VHS-BD edition nor has it ever been in audio, except in the Goin' Home bootleg that takes its sources from a recording with a more trimmed version of the alchemy but also remixed in another way (it can be found in Wolfgang's Vault), evidently, there has been someone who had access to the original master at the time. Then I would give the option to include the missing songs from either of the two nights, although preferably they would be those from the night of the 23rd. Except for erroneous fragments (end of the SR of the 23rd), I would stop making edits or cuts.

If what we are going to find is the alchemy released in 1984 with songs mixed in a more modern way (as Chuck did in 2010, Guy in 2022, or even as PB and TR mixed in 1988) and without well-made transitions ( ID & EL, PB & TOL...) because it's going to look like a sticky record. And the transitions can be done well both using the themes of the 23rd and those of the 22nd, that is easy for a sound engineer and even more so today.

Every hour that passes I lose hope that what is announced on Apple Music is wrong, both the durations and the description of the songs (remaster vs remix, extended intro...). And if they have really remixed the entire album, as I think is not going to happen, I would like to know who is responsible for so many errors in labelling the songs, it does not seem like a serious music group, now all that remains is to leave a good legacy of what I will say straits was, and in the way he deserves it.

I don't know what will happen with OTN, I prefer not to think about it.

About Rainbow '79 I think it's outstanding, things as they are.

EDIT: The only hope I have left is that in 1984 they had mixed the entire concert, with the small cuts that we know, a complete alchemy prepared for a live album, with two of the three songs that were left out that were from the previous night, to the just like what happened with the end of SR. But that would imply that they were not labelled as "mixed in 2023", but rather "previously unreleased".
« Last Edit: September 17, 2023, 10:00:52 AM by onceupon84 »

 

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