New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!

[jf9081]

...

A pity they didn't have the full Dortmund show to release, I would have loved to have those great versions of DTTWN, Lions and News on disc. Now we have the videos on the official YT channel, which is good, albeit in mono.

A real pity that it seems that no stereo recording of the great OL tour exists. Maybe they have Werchter soundboard in good quality somewhere, with Angel of Mercy? On the available bootlegs the quality is not good, even if it is a soundboard, News is out of tune, that ruins it...

The reason both the OGWT and the RockPop Dortmund shows were only mono is that both were broadcasted on TV, and TV was mono back then (stereo came very soon after if I remember correcty)  , so I would think that a stereo recording never existed of these.

I guess Werchter was also broadcasted on the radio which of course was stereo. Same with the German 'Rockpalast nights' then, mono on TV but with stereo simulcast radio (only true for the Saturday night life shows that were twice a year, the regular Sunday hour of Rockpalast  at 7pm every week was never in stereo so no chance of a DS stereo Rockpalast recording some day

Stereo on TV came with the NICAM standard in 1986, but stereo broadcasts were not commonplace until the 90s.

You mean the official releases of DS Rockpalast (the one on ZDF channel web site and the "Cologne" CD that is endorsed by DS official YT channel) are mono only? They sound stereo to me, maybe they went through some spacialization effect?

As for stereo radio broadcasts of the OL tour, we have the very incomplete Werchter, and the sound is atrocious for a sounboard, out of tune most of the time

I was also wondering now if Rockpalast (the one on the ZDF channel website) is mono or stereo. who knows more about it??

[iorch82]

TOL 92 is just gorgeous! My favourite version ever. Pensa sound is just superior. Am I the only one getting chills on the build up when the audience gets crazy over one of these characteristics licks? so much nostalgia.

Bravo Guy Fletcher, incredible gift for the fans. Waiting for this to happen since 1993. Now for the circle to be closed, please find out these Paris recordings and give us a live PONO! My very last request I promise.

[superval99]

The more I listen to TOL Rotterdam 92, the more I love it. It is not as good as Munich 91 I feel, but sjtill excellent.

When we say that for TOL the BIA is better... Hum... That may me be true for 1985, with the fantastic long intro and break with multiple musical quotes, but not of the shorter version of 1986 IMHO. Lots of people are fond of the short version of Sydney 86, but playing wise, tone wise, I find this TOL 92 much better. Even at least we have a touching intro and a break, unlike 1986.

Am I the only one to feel that way?

For me 1985 are unbeatable. It’s a victory lap of TOL. Would love to hear a pro recording from every tour. 1988 version with TW, EC and Pensa would be very interesting. Kind of mix between BIA and OES.

Agree.  The 1985 versions are just so sweet sounding.  No fast playing, allowing the song to breathe and the build up has Mark at his melodic best.  Added to that you have a beautiful intro and excerpts from other songs, all played on that lovely Schecter Sunburst.

The OES version has, like most songs on that tour, too many instruments playing on it.  When it comes to the solo, rather like the TR solo from that tour it's all about speed in the build up and when it comes to the famous part the energy's gone.  The Pensa also doesn't have anywhere near sufficient sustain for the main part of that solo and he has to add extra notes making it sound too "busy" for me personally.

Totally agree with you, dmg!    I much prefer the versions of TR and TOL from Alchemy and also the 1985 versions.   OES versions are much too busy and fast and I really dislike the cheesy backing vocals on TOL, but I do understand many people love them.   

[Knopflerfan]

TOL 92 is just gorgeous! My favourite version ever. Pensa sound is just superior. Am I the only one getting chills on the build up when the audience gets crazy over one of these characteristics licks? so much nostalgia.

Bravo Guy Fletcher, incredible gift for the fans. Waiting for this to happen since 1993. Now for the circle to be closed, please find out these Paris recordings and give us a live PONO! My very last request I promise.

I'm with you sir, TOL 1992 is far superior in my opinion to the Alchemy version....Love the speed in which this is played and like you the Pensa 'glides' through the song. Love the incidental riffs also...

[herlock]

TOL is one of those great songs for which here is no bad version.
The studio version is great - straight to the point, perfectly crafted, not one unnecessary note, crystal clear sound.
OL tour versions are great, with the added intro, Pick perfect drums, only Mark's guitar tone is too rough.
LOG tour versions are great, with added sax, longer intro, better tone and solo.
85 versions are great, enough said!
86 versions are great, short but well constructed (even if I don't like at Mark's guitar tone in Syndney and I find that there are too many unnecessary licks).
OES tour versions are great, romantic and touching, with impressive end solo, despite the Pensa tone that people don't like, but I do!
Too bad I have to stop there,  I would have loved to comment on 1996-2019 versions of TOL...

[Knopflerfan]

TOL - 'Romantic' & 'Touching' - you are not wrong there and that is a great duo of words to describe the masterpiece that is TOL!

[Pierre]

Well no....
Firstly on the new box set version of Fade To Black I can't hear any drums. I know I played brushes. I don't remember playing hi-hat and crosstick in the show. So it's all a mystery to me. On first listening I didn't hear any hi-hat or crosstick in Guy's mix, I didn't actually hear any drums.

It is very hard, often impossible to slide an instrument from one performance of a song to another. Firstly, things like sax audio (from a mic) also has elements of the onstage sound in the audio. Secondly, every night the song would be played at a slightly different tempo. You could copy a small phrase and slide it over, overdubbing it, but it can be a hassle and easier to just re-record it.
Lastly, it's funny that when I suggest nothing by Chris and Paul was fixed it is suggested they may have had their performances edited (copied from another show). Maybe just maybe what they played didn't ever NEED to be fixed.

Hi Chris, on his diary Guy explains that he discovered upon listening to the files that half of Fade To Black drums was missing from the reel surely because someone on the mixing desk forgot to turn on the line. So he had to replace the missing part with overdubs. Here is what he has to say about it:

"There were also instances where some mics weren’t even recorded, as in the case of ‘Sultans Of Swing’ 1992, where one of the drum overheads was mysteriously absent on every night. Obviously, an unnoticed error in the digital patching as the routing was clearly linked to our monitor system, which switched programs (and subsequent channel routing) for each song. In the case of ‘Fade To Black,’ the entire drum kit was muted; this must have been noticed on the night by the engineer, as they came back halfway through the song. I could imagine the frantic radio calls from the mobile truck to the stage crew to “unmute the bloody drums!” Sadly, this was the only night we played that song, so I needed to rebuild the drums from a few samples. Luckily, it wasn’t a complicated part, just a hi-hat and cross-stick. This is something that we would have done back in ’92 (using the Synclavier system), but the technology today makes it a whole lot easier."

Or maybe you've read this already

[Chris W]

Yeah, I read it already.
I remembered playing brushes on Fade To Black, not crosstick and hi-hat.
On the OES album it is brushes.

[Pierre]

I do hear some very light drumming in the "new" fade to black though, sound like brushes to me and occasional snare and bass drum but what do I know?

[Chris W]

Could be, I only listened to it once and not on headphones.

[Love Expresso]

TOL 92 is just gorgeous! My favourite version ever. Pensa sound is just superior. Am I the only one getting chills on the build up when the audience gets crazy over one of these characteristics licks? so much nostalgia.

Bravo Guy Fletcher, incredible gift for the fans. Waiting for this to happen since 1993. Now for the circle to be closed, please find out these Paris recordings and give us a live PONO! My very last request I promise.

I'm with you sir, TOL 1992 is far superior in my opinion to the Alchemy version....Love the speed in which this is played and like you the Pensa 'glides' through the song. Love the incidental riffs also...

I agree with both of you and I am one of those who like the backing vocals very much and don't find them cheesy  at all. Tunnel of Love was more epic and monumental  in 1985 but it sounds much fresher in 1992. I was over the moon when I heard it live in Munich 1991. Was expecting Telegraph Road but we got a really great alternative instead. Remember back in those days without the world wide web there was no knowledge (at least to me) about set lists at all and Dire Straits in Bremen 1991 was my first real rock concert anyway!

LE

[Matchstickman]

It is very hard, often impossible to slide an instrument from one performance of a song to another. Firstly, things like sax audio (from a mic) also has elements of the onstage sound in the audio. Secondly, every night the song would be played at a slightly different tempo. You could copy a small phrase and slide it over, overdubbing it, but it can be a hassle and easier to just re-record it.
Lastly, it's funny that when I suggest nothing by Chris and Paul was fixed it is suggested they may have had their performances edited (copied from another show). Maybe just maybe what they played didn't ever NEED to be fixed.

Chris mentioned the difficulty of using edits from various performances of the same song, and then to present it as one performance. But, as others have pointed out, this seems to be the case on Calling Elvis from On the Night. Would it be correct to assume that this was possible because there was a click track (or the effect of one) for the percussion intro before CE, when the band walked onto stage, which made the band play CE at the same tempo each night?

[Chris W]

Two things.
I didn't say it was hard to edit whole songs, I said it would be hard to take a sax passage from one gig and slide it on to a different gig. That's because anything with a microphone also picks up the sounds around it. But yes, tempo is also an issue.
If it's editing whole parts of songs, 1) there are enough tempo changes in many DS songs that you could probably edit sections without anyone knowing. 2) we obviously tried to play songs at the agreed tempo at every show. 3) yes, I played Calling Elvis, Walk of Life and maybe () Heavy Fuel with a click in my ear. No other songs.

[rmarques821]

Two things.
I didn't say it was hard to edit whole songs, I said it would be hard to take a sax passage from one gig and slide it on to a different gig. That's because anything with a microphone also picks up the sounds around it. But yes, tempo is also an issue.
If it's editing whole parts of songs, 1) there are enough tempo changes in many DS songs that you could probably edit sections without anyone knowing. 2) we obviously tried to play songs at the agreed tempo at every show. 3) yes, I played Calling Elvis, Walk of Life and maybe () Heavy Fuel with a click in my ear. No other songs.

Chris, how was the process of choosing the setlist for the tour? Did Mark ever talk to you about it, did you have any input, or was that 100% up to Mark's will?
When you were listening to DS previous record, was there a song that stood out for its interesting drum parts? Or a song that you would have liked to perform live?

[herlock]

The more I listen to TOL Rotterdam 92, the more I love it. It is not as good as Munich 91 I feel, but sjtill excellent.

When we say that for TOL the BIA is better... Hum... That may me be true for 1985, with the fantastic long intro and break with multiple musical quotes, but not of the shorter version of 1986 IMHO. Lots of people are fond of the short version of Sydney 86, but playing wise, tone wise, I find this TOL 92 much better. Even at least we have a touching intro and a break, unlike 1986.

Am I the only one to feel that way?

For me 1985 are unbeatable. It’s a victory lap of TOL. Would love to hear a pro recording from every tour. 1988 version with TW, EC and Pensa would be very interesting. Kind of mix between BIA and OES.

Agree.  The 1985 versions are just so sweet sounding.  No fast playing, allowing the song to breathe and the build up has Mark at his melodic best.  Added to that you have a beautiful intro and excerpts from other songs, all played on that lovely Schecter Sunburst.

The OES version has, like most songs on that tour, too many instruments playing on it.  When it comes to the solo, rather like the TR solo from that tour it's all about speed in the build up and when it comes to the famous part the energy's gone.  The Pensa also doesn't have anywhere near sufficient sustain for the main part of that solo and he has to add extra notes making it sound too "busy" for me personally.

As usual, a lot of truth, and a bit of exaggeration, dmg 🙂

OK, I decided to listen again to main versions of TOL, and here is my ranking:

1) 1985. We all agree here, hands-down the winner. I chose San Antonio, since we now have a quasi-official quality bootleg (endorsed by the official YT channel). The sweet intro, the wonderful break with the piano conclusion, the smart built up, the bombastic ending, the Schecter tone sweeten by overdrive... Yeah, this is the clear winner!

2) 1992. Yes, I put it at the #2 spot! (I chose Rotterdam, the only soundboard we have). Ok, not as epic as 1985, but a very sweet and interesting take. Very romantic intro and break, impressive solo albeit a bit too fast, less progressive, but very emotional, the Pensa tone is not that bad, soft but very audible... I know most don't agree, but I find it to be a very nice alternate take.

3) 1983. I chose the obvious, Alchemy, which has some very unique selling points: the unique sweet sax intro (linked to the outro of Portbollo Belle), the lack of cheesy backing vocals with the slight change in melody ("neon burning up above") so that Mark can be alone singing it, is actually a plus, the straight to the point yet energetic end solo, makes it a reference version.

4) 1980. I chose the sweet OGWT version on the Alchemy blu-Ray, very clear sound. I love it when I am in a "stripped-down" rather than "badass" mood (yes, it happens). This one is simple yet touching, and, unique selling points, the great Pick Withers on drums! I believe only he got it right, for the drums solo in the middle...

5) 1986. I chose the famous Sydney version. I don't know why it gets some much love. I find that it fails to reproduce the greatness of the previous year. No intro, no break, a strange "plastic" guitar tone, and an end solo that I fail to feel for... Some phrases going to nowhere, slow buildup, too many added chords that gives me an impression of "show off"... Not my cup of tea, even if this is TOL, so still wonderful!

Okay, now shoot me