New DS Live Box Set, 3rd November 2023!

[herlock]

I may be in the minority here, but for some songs I actually prefer the rawer Live at the BBC and the simpler Rockpalast to the Rainbow show.

For Lions, I think nothing beats the aggressive end solo of BBC.
For News, I prefer the middle solo on Rockpalast, tighter than the Rainbow.
I also love the rawer Six Blade Knife from BBC more than any other version.Same for what's the matter baby.
For In the gallery, Rockpalast sounds more energetic than the Rainbow to me.

But for Down to the Waterline and Sultans, the Rainbow definitely is the best - more energy!

And of course the songs that are unique to the Rainbow (Setting me up, Portobello Belle, Southbound again, Twisting by the pool) are great!

What do you guys think?

[Brunno Nunes]

Still about Rainbow Theater 79:

It's a shame to sacrifice Single Handed Sailor, this one had to be mandatory in my opinion. Still missing was the interesting Angel of Mercy, which at this point formed a bridge with Solid Rock, the mesmerizing Follow me Home and Water of Love, which were certainly left out because of the songs played with Phil Lynnot. I woud exchange Phil's songs for the missing DS songs, but it is indeed an important, apotheotic show, mainly because to be last show of the original lineup and because it contains the latest versions of Lady Writer, Southbound Again, Whats the Matter Baby, and songs like all the others, DTTE, Six Blade Knife, OUATITW, Lions, News... they never sounded like the original lineup.

I believe that a very important door has been opened with this release, it will certainly sell more than MK's other solo box sets and this could move things in the direction of releasing more material like this, there must certainly be more recordings, not in my dreams anymore Crazy, I imagined an official launch of Rainbow Theater 79, I watched the BBC Arena several times, and I was imagining the entire show, especially on video, but having it in audio is very precious, who knows, maybe there are videos , these things can happen.

[Dutchessy]

Sixblade knife of the rainbow is slower and almost 2 minutes longer than the bbc version. (I see now its because of the talking haha)

[Brunno Nunes]

I may be in the minority here, but for some songs I actually prefer the rawer Live at the BBC and the simpler Rockpalast to the Rainbow show.

For Lions, I think nothing beats the aggressive end solo of BBC.
For News, I prefer the middle solo on Rockpalast, tighter than the Rainbow.
I also love the rawer Six Blade Knife from BBC more than any other version.Same for what's the matter baby.
For In the gallery, Rockpalast sounds more energetic than the Rainbow to me.

But for Down to the Waterline and Sultans, the Rainbow definitely is the best - more energy!

And of course the songs that are unique to the Rainbow (Setting me up, Portobello Belle, Southbound again, Twisting by the pool) are great!

What do you guys think?

Each concert, a flavor, an emotion, an experience, I like all of these, Rainbow Theater 79 is something really new, even the order of the songs are organized in an unusual way by the standards of the time, without a doubt, it was a special show.

Did you notice that In The Gallery at Rainbow Theater 79 has a configuration along the lines of how they approached it in 1980, just listen to In The Gallery on the 1980 bootlegs, and this is not the only song in this show that has this characteristic, the same thing happens with Down to the Waterline, the speed, energy, licks are very close to how they played in 1980, listen to the version in Dortmund 80 it is possible to notice this parallel, this is also the case with Sultans of Swing in Rainbow Theater 79, the arrangement and interpretation is similar to what they did 1 year later in Dortmund 80.

Nothing compares to the warmth and creamy, bittersweet texture of the sound of the Fender Stratocaster and Musicman amps, at least for me.

[Brunno Nunes]

Sixblade knife of the rainbow is slower and almost 2 minutes longer than the bbc version. (I see now its because of the talking haha)

Many songs during this period of the band were much more open to Jam, such as Six Blade Knife, In The Gallery, Wild West End have a longer introduction, as does Down to the Waterline.

[Dutchessy]

Also i have never liked the guitar sound from live at the bbc

[Robson]

Fact, Industrial Disease sounds different than the earlier Once Upon A Time... But Twisting By The Pool is better. Portobello Belle is great but after 7 minutes it ends too abruptly for me. All seven songs from On The Night are amazing. Rainbow is a pearl.

[herlock]

I actually think that some of the songs from the first 2 albums were best played in the expanded versions of the 1980/81 OL tour.

This is definitely the case for News (an epic and emotional dimension was added with the Hammond organ) and WDYTYRG in 1981 (the added crying guitar solo is gorgeous).

For Lions, the change of rythm is contreversal. I like it a lot in both versions. For the end solo, the earlier versions are definitely better, it is going to nowhere in 80/81...

For DTTW, this is a draw. OL tour versions are more suitable to big arenas with the keyboard, and in 81 (not 80) the piano in the end is a nice touch, but I feel that when David left the groove he had on rythm guitar was not well replaced by Hal, at least on this song...
Angel of Mercy is drastically different in the OL tour, but so good!

For In the gallery and Single Handed Sailor, the changes are so drastic that I tend to prefer the original versions...

For Sultans, OUATITW, Portobello Belle, Solid Rock... OL versions didn't age well, the keyboards are so crude, better listen to earlier or latter versions IMHO.

[Brunno Nunes]

This is for those who have watched the BBC ARENA documentary many, many times, that long speech by Mark before starting Down to the Waterline present in the video, where he says they will play new things tonight... listening to the audio from the Rainbow Theater 79 available now, we can see where this line comes from, in fact it is quoted at the moment the song Six Blade Knife ends, just before starting Once Upon a Time in the West, and not in Down to the Waterline, but whoever edited it The video made this montage to look like this for the TV show.

Still on the BBC ARENA video, there is a short scene in the song Les Boys where it shows David playing the entire time with a Sunburst Telecaster, (his main guitar during this period, he uses in all songs in the band's video live at the Rainbow Theatre, present at the BBC Arena), but there is a short scene in the same song which shows David using his black Thiline model Telecaster that he used for Wild West End and Portobello Belle, this was an editing error, but which reveals that more songs were filmed at the Rainbow Theater 79, in addition to those present at the BBC Arena. Who knows, maybe they'll dig deeper and find more interesting recordings, it's possible that complete footage of the show exists, that would be unbelievable, seeing Setting me Up, Southbound Again, or Portobello Belle live, it would be chilling...

[herlock]

This is for those who have watched the BBC ARENA documentary many, many times, that long speech by Mark before starting Down to the Waterline present in the video, where he says they will play new things tonight... listening to the audio from the Rainbow Theater 79 available now, we can see where this line comes from, in fact it is quoted at the moment the song Six Blade Knife ends, just before starting Once Upon a Time in the West, and not in Down to the Waterline, but whoever edited it The video made this montage to look like this for the TV show.

Still on the BBC ARENA video, there is a short scene in the song Les Boys where it shows David playing the entire time with a Sunburst Telecaster, (his main guitar during this period, he uses in all songs in the band's video live at the Rainbow Theatre, present at the BBC Arena), but there is a short scene in the same song which shows David using his black Thiline model Telecaster that he used for Wild West End and Portobello Belle, this was an editing error, but which reveals that more songs were filmed at the Rainbow Theater 79, in addition to those present at the BBC Arena. Who knows, maybe they'll dig deeper and find more interesting recordings, it's possible that complete footage of the show exists, that would be unbelievable, seeing Setting me Up, Southbound Again, or Portobello Belle live, it would be chilling...

Yes, it would be chilling indeed!
Regarding Mark's speech, I could not reconcile it fully. On the video Mark says "You just call them [the songs]. We'll try and play them". This is not on the Rainbow release, so where does this line come from? Besides, it so unlike Mark to welcome songs requests by the audience...

[herlock]

Also i have never liked the guitar sound from live at the bbc

You mean the bass sound? Too high in the mix... As if John had been doing the mix...

[Brunno Nunes]

This is for those who have watched the BBC ARENA documentary many, many times, that long speech by Mark before starting Down to the Waterline present in the video, where he says they will play new things tonight... listening to the audio from the Rainbow Theater 79 available now, we can see where this line comes from, in fact it is quoted at the moment the song Six Blade Knife ends, just before starting Once Upon a Time in the West, and not in Down to the Waterline, but whoever edited it The video made this montage to look like this for the TV show.

Still on the BBC ARENA video, there is a short scene in the song Les Boys where it shows David playing the entire time with a Sunburst Telecaster, (his main guitar during this period, he uses in all songs in the band's video live at the Rainbow Theatre, present at the BBC Arena), but there is a short scene in the same song which shows David using his black Thiline model Telecaster that he used for Wild West End and Portobello Belle, this was an editing error, but which reveals that more songs were filmed at the Rainbow Theater 79, in addition to those present at the BBC Arena. Who knows, maybe they'll dig deeper and find more interesting recordings, it's possible that complete footage of the show exists, that would be unbelievable, seeing Setting me Up, Southbound Again, or Portobello Belle live, it would be chilling...

Yes, it would be chilling indeed!
Regarding Mark's speech, I could not reconcile it fully. On the video Mark says "You just call them [the songs]. We'll try and play them". This is not on the Rainbow release, so where does this line come from? Besides, it so unlike Mark to welcome songs requests by the audience...

The speech between 5:22 and 5:36 in the audio of Six Blade Knife at Rainbow Theater 79, they used this speech and put it in the introduction to Down to the Waterline in the video for the BBC Arena program. The part where he quotes in the video "You just call them [the songs]. We'll try and play them" is strangely nowhere in the box.

[Brunno Nunes]

Trying to understand what happened that the tempo of some songs is different in this Box, I'm referring to Alchem, for example, Once Upon a Time in the West in the old version present on Deezer it contains 13:00 min, in the box it is 12:47 , where did those 13 seconds go? Does the remastering process cause this? Did you make some cuts in bars of the song...?

R&J old release with 8:15 min, in the box 8:11, in TOL we already know what happens, in TR old release with 13:37 min, in the box 12:55 min, a big time disparity here, SL old release has 6:01 min, in the box 5:34 min, another considerable disparity, GH old release 6:05 min, in the box 5:05 min, (minus 1 min.)
Weird stuff...

[Robson]

aLCHEMY A.D. 2023 is a little quieter than previous versions.

[herlock]

Trying to understand what happened that the tempo of some songs is different in this Box, I'm referring to Alchem, for example, Once Upon a Time in the West in the old version present on Deezer it contains 13:00 min, in the box it is 12:47 , where did those 13 seconds go? Does the remastering process cause this? Did you make some cuts in bars of the song...?

R&J old release with 8:15 min, in the box 8:11, in TOL we already know what happens, in TR old release with 13:37 min, in the box 12:55 min, a big time disparity here, SL old release has 6:01 min, in the box 5:34 min, another considerable disparity, GH old release 6:05 min, in the box 5:05 min, (minus 1 min.)
Weird stuff...

The Alchemy original album contains a lot of clapping (e.g. on both sides of TR), SR clapping was also shortened in the end in 2023 to make an artifical transition to TR, at the expense of a "Thank you!", strange) and also some weird transitions: in OUATITW you can hear a bit of the the begenning of ID (this explains your 13 seconds), In EL you can hear quite a fair bit of the end of ID, and in TOL you can hear quite a bit of the end of PB. As ID and PB were not released, this was kind of strange. The new releases makes things more logical, with 2 small and 1 big screw-up:
- R&J has a "thank you" at the beginning that is nowhere to be found.
-TOL is missing a few seconds of intro, before Mel's sax is kicking.
-And most importantly, GH is missing the whole intro (The rock and the thunder), this is a whole minute less and this is unforgivable. As if the vynil (rather than CD) master was used by Guy!

Also, this is lost opportunity to reuse the excellent 2010 mix from Chunk Ainlay, and to restore Mark's speeches in TOL intro and in GH. Shame!