I'm forwarding this message from Ed Bicknel to you.
Chris W
Hi there Jbaent, nice to meet you ,
My attention was brought to your site AMIT a while ago and I’ve followed it on and off since.
After Jack and Brendan’s passing ( REALLY REALLY sad, ) I was prompted to check out some of the threads you have going which are often unintentionally funny, wildly speculative and sometimes just plain deluded since understandably the writers do not have the information.
NOT a problem, that’s what being a fan is about and without fans where would we be? ( Probably hot and sticky. )
Being a fan is AN ADVENTURE !!!!
So I am sending a few comments via Chris Whitten on some of the topics that are currently “ running ” just to inform, NOT to criticise.
IF you publish please DO NOT EDIT and point out that I can't and won’t get into "correspondence” , that this is not going to be a regular thing and what follows is not an attempt to deal with every point that the fans/writers bring up, for instance I won’t address the Alan Clark thread, the On Every Street album content or the technical studio stuff which Guy has more than covered even though he can’t change a plug.
Guy is the BEST guy out of many guys I’ve misguyded over the years.
And what follows is subjective and from memory, I shredded everything when we closed, bin bags full of letters, telexes, faxes, emails, diaries, a history of technical communication since 1977, so I may have misremembered but I'm not going to get into factual debates, if I’m wrong I’m wrong.
So use this intro if you want
Here we go……..
A SKID MARK ON THE Y FRONTS
1. The Bob Lefsetz podcast/interview.
Thanks for the positive comments, it was fun to do. Excellent interviewer…….tip - Bob has alot of interviews on his sites worth checking out if you are real music fans ( as opposed to being locked into one thing ).
As far as not talking about the transition into MK's solo band, that was guided by the interviewer and it would have taken at least half an hour to have detailed and includes too much personal stuff for your forum, sorry.
2. "Sacred Loving” .
From memory that was on the original Pathway studios demo tape they did but I must have forgotten which says something about the song/performance…….average at best which I’m guessing is why it wasn’t used, plus the fact David wrote it, if he’d written “ Day In The Life” it wouldn’t have made it ( see Muff Winwood You Tube interview in a doc on siblings in bands. Can’t recall the title …BBC 2 maybe? Long time ago. )
3. Sid McGinnis.
Let me try and put this one to bed.
He came in “last minute” after David's departure and I'm not even sure we paid him !
I can't recall what he played on, it was 44 years ago !
Ah yes, he used his guitar.
Memory….I think MK replaced some of what D had done up to then though not much because D's departure was fairly early on while they were tracking “ Romeo and Juliet ”.
I don't think Sid was credited because I wasn't there at the time and nobody told me he'd done anything ( typical ) nor do I know how he got the gig ( through Jimmy Iovine, Lourdes maybe? )
He certainly never complained re no credit.
Roy B was there from the NY rehearsals on so completely different situation and he contributed to the arrangements and general vibe. Great guy ( all of Bruce’s band are including the singer ).
There were NO disagreements about finances or that motivating anything either re Sid or anyone else.
There was no "production company", just me and the band, and 90% of the time right up to 2000 whenever I could I did things on a handshake, especially with promoters, the BEST people I dealt with by far,( pre Live Nation/AEG ).
All these “ contracts " people keep mentioning never existed ( except records/publishing ) and I took NO notice of record companies in the unlikely event they came looking for something unless it fitted with what was happening creatively eg single choices, TV's, videos, interviews etc.
In fairness neither Warners or Phonogram ever asked when they were getting a new album, too scared to !
My policy was that if we couldn’t do it our/my way, it didn't happen at all, so you can close that line down in future…...yes, like Frank I did it MY WAY ( with all my artists irrespective of how successful they were, it’s just a matter of knowing how to protect them.
Sid’s relationship with MK was always fine but brief, I'm surprised that conflict is even hinted at.
It was played “ that way ” on Letterman because those things are always lacking in rehearsal time, you just have to get on with it FAST, maybe two run throughs at most, and just about everybody with a decent front person would use the house band since it was easier and faster technically, hence MK doing that one ( EL ) on his own minus the rest of DS.
No-one back then thought of bands as “ brands ”.
No idea if Sid ever did an interview, he was/is a studio player and they generally stay under the radar.
By the way, I doubt MK “ told " Hal what to play on EL, he was perfectly capable of coming up with his own parts, which is why he got the job until he didn't have the job ( eeeew I don't want to think of Hal's parts ).
I'm baffled by the comment re Hal not being loud enough on live shows.
I often used to sit on the FOH desk ( or monitors) and never thought the sound balance was “ out " despite some of the shit holes we played, quite the opposite.
4. Budapest. We only had time to film the live MFN bits, there was NO additional filming at all and no plan to shoot anything long-form ( way too early in the tour, nobody thought to do, I certainly didn't ).
It was all done on one afternoon ( at sound check) and then at that evening's gig (hence bits of other songs..they just wanted audience shots to drop in ), which might account for the change in sweaty shirts /jacket colours. Obviously the film crew didn't have a co ordination person with them or when they edited it together !
The record co's needed FAST.
I think the single was already out in some countries so usual mad panic, no budget by the way and the girl in it was hired the morning of the shoot by the film co.
I don't recall “ many " cameras. Maybe 3? 4?
Chris Whitten’s comment on this is correct.
5. The comment re Pick and LOG is incorrect. Pick is all over that record ( and I was gutted when he left ), if you watch his interviews it’s all there eg shitty machine on Industrial D, I completely agree with him on that.
We remain great friends to this day .....he married my secretary Linda TWICE !
He did not "change style” …great drummers can play the same song as many different ways as needed and Pick is a GREAT drummer no question.
There were several reasons he left not just that old “musical differences ” thing which is always a cover for what actually happened ie personal strife!
The Oldfield book is mediocre. ..a shame because we gave him total access., but not as bad as the other book that came out ( can't recall who by), now THAT one was rubbish…the writer was obsessed by Sting ( easy I know).
I have NO memory of Ed Walsh at all. I wonder if we paid HIM!
6. I agree with the comments re Pick and Terry ( who came from a Welsh “ jam ” band called Man I used to book as an agent early 70's hence the introduction).
He was the only drummer they “ auditioned " for about an hour after I got him in.
The LH credits on Wikipedia/the sleeve are correct.
"Going Home" is a Linn, absolutely. I know because as a drummer I loathe them. I detest ALL drum machines.
MK programmed…….there wasn't anybody else to do! And that last “roll " is a rhythmic cliche but then he's not a drummer. Ha! ( But it worked ).
Steve Jordan did originally record the GH track but it was substituted because of issues to do with syncing with the film titles/credits at the end.
There are no typos.
Michael Brecker RIP is sax, Tony L and Neil J played as credited, all brilliant, so EASY.
7. Session players.
In the late 50's and up to late 60's bands RARELY performed on their own records except for the singers.
Time = money was the rule.
So session man Andy White played drums on " Love Me Do " by the Beatles because George Martin didn't feel Pete Best was good enough.
Playing in time was key ( no click tracks back then) and you did an A side and B side in 3 hours max ( otherwise they Union rate went up ).
A full album in maybe 2/3 days incl mixing.
Whatever you had by the end came out, good or not so good ( sometimes shit ) and nothing was EVER played back to the acts/singers ever, the producers ruled back then.
The main drummers were Clem Cattini ( 48 number ones, we don’t talk about Clem’s number two’s ) , Ronnie Verrell, Andy White, and Bobby Graham who did "You Really Got Me”, “ All of the Day”, and pretty much all The Kinks stuff and Ray's solo records.
He's also the drummer on most of the Dave Clark 5 records.
There were a similar number of guitarists...Big Jim Sullivan, Jimmy Page, Alan Parker, Ray Russell, a few bass players eg John Paul Jones, Herbie Flowers, Mo Foster, sax ( eg Ronnie Scott of jazz club fame is on Eleanor Rigby ), numerous backing singers ( both sexes) , percussionists ( Frank Ricotti) and so on.
All on Wikipedia under UK session musicians, a fascinating subject if you can get off MK/DS for a minute.
Same set up in NY and LA ( Wrecking Crew), Nashville , Motown, Stax.
They all got paid diddly squat sadly, about £43 an hour x 3 hours in the UK, a bit more if you "doubled" on instruments ( so every drummer had a tambourine).
Chris Whitten is entirely correct ( and about Jeff, Omar, Manu, all absolute masters of their craft ).
Terry Williams is on all that Rockpile stuff.....the king of what drummers call "the shuffle”.
For fact seekers, he’s on the intro to MFN and all of “ Walk of Life” ( which MK always saw as a non album B side until Neil D and I insisted it was a hit song) ..he’s also on the “ Twisting By The Pool " EP . “ Alchemy ” ( obviously ) , bits of ‘ Local Hero” , I can't recall what else.
8. Drinking and socialising.
This thread is complete nonsense ( but pretty funny ).
Re the Chet story, it was an “off the cuff ” remark.
All I meant was that MK had to swig the whisky MINIATURE to get the courage to take Chet's call ( although the two already knew each other) such was the esteem in which both of us held him. I was telling and mildly embellishing a story, not lying on a psychiatrist's chair.
Pavel's comment re “ Mak " is correct.
We stopped working together in 2000, so no, we don't “ socialise '’ ( I’m not even sure what that even means, fondling each other? ) and Chris Whitten is correct again, maybe he’s stalking me.
I'd say MK and I have a respectful relationship but we both moved on from each other years ago ( even the fondling stopped eventually, shit . )
Now I spend my time hanging out with drummers, going to Drum Fairs and watching Buddy Rich solos on You Tube.
Now Buddy liked puff, how did he play like that completely stoned? A true genius on his instrument.
On that last tour I was SO busy I couldn't cover as many shows as I would have liked and listening to " Calling Elvis " every night was not the best use of my time, which is why I made sure we had the best tour manager ( Tony Wigens ), Production Manager ( Alan Hornall), and a full and brilliant crew because it's a delusion to think you can do it on your own......at one point I think we had about 200+ on the road ( the stadiums ).
Again,Chris Whitten is dead right, bands living in each other’s pockets is a recipe for disaster.
In fact he's 92.6 % correct on all his quotes which is unusual for a drummer given the banging in the head and migraines they usually suffer from.
I LOVE his “ sort of ” comment re Crockford, classic.
To be clear Mark and I “ socialised " right up to when I quit ( mostly reading “ VIZ ” together…google it ), or munching burgers at Tootsies cafe in Notting Hill or meat pies at the Cock and Balls gastric pub in Olympia.
Is any of this important?
NO.
9. I will refrain from commenting on John's book at length except that the "Portland Oregon” ( BIA tour) he mentions was actually Portland MAINE 100 miles from Boston not 4000 which would have been physically impossible to do.
Apparently he did not get the book fact checked ( there are a number of errors as I'm sure the readers have discovered), so a bit disappointing given the opportunity ( except the nice things he says about me, it’s worth getting it for that alone ).
10. Hull University.
Deep Purple…...no but I did become their agent just a few years later …great band along with Black Sabbath who I also repped. I LOVED them, hilarious bunch.
We had The Who x 2 , Hendrix, The Kinks, Moody Blues x 2 , Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Pink Floyd x 2 , Free, John Mayall’s Bluesbreakers, Family x 2 ( the best of the lot) , Ten Years After, Jethro Tull, Joe Cocker, loads of jazz and folk artists etc etc etc
11. Tribute bands.
I’ll state the obvious, they exist because the “ main “ act has ceased functioning, broken up, fucked each others wives and/or died eg Beatles, Cream, ABBA, Led Zeppelin.
They are a response to public demand and pre Beatles ALL UK bands were “ cover bands " mainly playing American stuff or copying The Shadows ( the unsung heroes to all that generation especially guitarists to whom Hank Marvin was/is king ).
Mark and I played in loads of groups like that around Leeds (some of which only lasted a month ) mid Sixties. .
“Green Onions” was our starting point, then “ Bo Diddley ” ( which led to “ Calling Elvis ”.)
MK LOVES Bo Diddley, as I do ( and his son Diddley Diddley ).
Strangely we didn’t meet then although we went to the SAME music store ( Kitchens of Leeds) at the same time! Weird!
So "Tribute bands” are an extension except it’s ONE song source not many.
Trashing them is just musical snobbery to me.
I think David Gilmour had a Floyd Tribute band play at a birthday bash ( his ), probably the Australian bunch that Crockford manages ( sort of…ha!) so obviously he’s not bothered, remember it’s just pop music, nothing else.
Until the Beatles came along no one even THOUGHT of writing their own stuff, that came from “professional songwriters” or by copying the US ‘’ hits ” of the time. ( which is what The Beatles originally did eg ’Twist and Shout” by the Isley Brothers ).
When Chris White and Alan Clark formed the first one I saw them at The Royal Albert Hall and thought they were ff……..ing tremendous and why not ? There’s no rule out there that says former members can't be in their own tribute band, nobody is forcing the public to go.
The first person I ever saw do that was Bruce Welch in The Moonlight Shadows ( who were great). Now ABBA have avatars of themselves and AI is going to impact all this.
I helped that first version with a bit of advice, mainly about a legal concept called “ passing off ” which in essence means not misleading the public into thinking you’re Bo Diddley when you're not, especially if you’re dead.
Unfortunately it isn’t always possible to stop third parties eg dodgy promoters advertising as THEY think fit, and before anybody mentions “ contracts ” , most of the contracts in music are worthless, unenforceable and too expensive to sue anybody over even if it were possible ( eg in say, China, Japan, Leeds. ).
Unfortunately one person caused that lineup to splinter and no, I’m not naming , doesn’t matter…...here comes speculation.
For me the Dire Straits Experience are almost as good as the “ real thing ” and Terence Reis is something of a genius in the way he channels MK rather than copying him. The BEST of guys and players and really folks, it’s not that important in the scheme of things.
What they’ve achieved by talent and hard work is tremendous….….there you go I’ve given you a subject to debate.
Instead of bitching about them ( or any other tribute bands ) go and see them ( DSE) because you definitely won’t be seeing Dire Straits again.
I have no thoughts about DSL as a unit, haven’t seen just as I haven’t listened to anything Alan Clark has done.
Incidentally the song MK wrote on this subject could lyrically be about ANY tribute band, I’ve no idea and I’m not going to ask him ( or listen to it ) .
Anything else is just speculation based on what ?
He and I never discussed tribute bands and I can't imagine he spends any time thinking about them ( and as stated, John Illsley has played with various lineups as has Pick ).
Remember, “ Sultans of Swing ” is about a covers/tribute band who had taken THEIR name from a 1950’s American jazz band ( Panama Francis and The Savoy Sultans ).……
Chris Whitten is entirely correct in his comments about making a living playing music.
It’s really TOUGH and has become progressively tougher. If you can't play live at a profit you're stuffed, but you can always do it for fun, something that seems to be forgotten with music, so if you like the Kinks, form a tribute band and call them The Winks and get going.
And I must add here, Chris is really irritating with his endlessly correct comments but then he did play on “ The Whole of The Moon” so I'd forgive him anything…..aaaah, The Waterboys, one I tried to get but it didn’t work out…BUGGER.
By the way, Crockford did NOT manage the NHB’s and was not a “ support “ to me ( be serious, I wear a surgical truss for that ), he promoted some DS/NHB shows across the years and met MK via that, not otherwise.
12. Lastly, there’s an old thread re my “ contract ” and the split with MK.
Again, not important (certainly now) but I was not “ fired ”, if anything I “ resigned " for numerous reasons ( same comment re selling the rights I had ) and the speculation on that subject is wholly incorrect and anyway, why so strange to sell what you own ?
Bob Dylan has sold all his songs. So? They are HIS songs …ditto the many others who’ve done the same …when you get past 65 thoughts of mortality and avoiding/reducing Inheritance Tax creep in or the accountant tells you the plusses and minuses, especially if you have kids. Maybe guitar auctions come into the conversation? ( I have zero knowledge of that ).
All I will say here is that our parting was the inevitable conclusion to everything that took place from OES on and I don't mean musical direction.
As it happens I was NOT trying to keep DS going for money or any other reason, in many ways the opposite ( from 1986 to 1990 I NEVER mentioned the band to MK or vice versa. EVER )
The one thing nearly all your members consistently miss ( fair enough because there is no way they could know), is the impact people’s personal lives and inter-band relationships have on what is going on professionally, and that applies to ALL bands in my experience,
I can't think of a single exception.
That was the case in spades with OES ………
So I guess I better write a book then…….
