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Author Topic: Wembley 85 official release on DS YouTube channel  (Read 12655 times)

Offline2manyguitars

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Re: Wembley 85 official release on DS YouTube channel
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2023, 12:50:11 AM »
I think some of the sound choices are a little dated, the awful electronic drums, some of the synth choices.

However these songs also need to be seen as an evolutionary process. Some of us will like the baby versions, some the older, more mature ones. We ourselves will have shifting opinions....


Shifting opinions indeed. As I got increasingly less enamored with Mark's solo work (simply too low key and, frankly, dull), I could always get my "fix" by listening to and watching the Wembley and Sydney shows. Nowadays, I feel they tried to hard to make the DS music work on the big stages. The band sound and look corny to me now. Mark especially just doesn't have the charisma and stage persona that those stages require of a frontman. Your mileage may vary, of course. Clubs and max theatre-sized venues are where Mark thrives and where his music feels right.

Interesting what you say regarding the frontman thing.  It's something I've considered before but never really delved into too deeply because it doesn't bother me in the least.  Mark is effortlessly cool as he doesn't leap around, swear constantly, jump into the crowd or bring any onto the stage.  He is all the more likeable and charismatic to me for all that.

When I look at other bands/artists and see their antics I just cringe as I see their attempts to endear themselves to the audience.


I have also always liked MK for that reason, but because of the crazy success of BIA, the band suddenly became "pop stars" and played on the same stages as mega acts of that time. You need stage presence like Springsteen, McCartney or Tina Turner to really pull that off. In hindsight, I just don't think that that "suited" the band and the music. And as we know, later on Mark wanted to get away from all that.

(Of course I don't expect die-hard MK nuts like Robson to agree with any of this  ;D  )

I think the bands appeal has everything to do with the absence of that kind of bluster.

DS are an enigma of sorts if you think about it. A pub rock band playing in stadiums. The ultimate opposite of punk, used to sell and commoditize music (CD, Phillips etc), unfairly (imo) associated with yuppie culture and the worst excesses of the 80s, and yet virtuoso musicians, performing songs subverting those same associations (MFN for example), and of course something thats always forgotten, wildly more popular than just about every  other band of that era. MK  almost became the archetypal anti-frontman.

The whole DS phenomenon fascinates me....


Offlinesuperval99

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Re: Wembley 85 official release on DS YouTube channel
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2023, 07:16:48 AM »
I think some of the sound choices are a little dated, the awful electronic drums, some of the synth choices.

However these songs also need to be seen as an evolutionary process. Some of us will like the baby versions, some the older, more mature ones. We ourselves will have shifting opinions....


Shifting opinions indeed. As I got increasingly less enamored with Mark's solo work (simply too low key and, frankly, dull), I could always get my "fix" by listening to and watching the Wembley and Sydney shows. Nowadays, I feel they tried to hard to make the DS music work on the big stages. The band sound and look corny to me now. Mark especially just doesn't have the charisma and stage persona that those stages require of a frontman. Your mileage may vary, of course. Clubs and max theatre-sized venues are where Mark thrives and where his music feels right.

Interesting what you say regarding the frontman thing.  It's something I've considered before but never really delved into too deeply because it doesn't bother me in the least.  Mark is effortlessly cool as he doesn't leap around, swear constantly, jump into the crowd or bring any onto the stage.  He is all the more likeable and charismatic to me for all that.

When I look at other bands/artists and see their antics I just cringe as I see their attempts to endear themselves to the audience.


Totally agree with you, dmg!    Everything that you have mentioned are what drew me to be a fan of Mark in the first place - that and the music, of course!     I still find his stage presence as mesmerising as the first time I saw him all of those years ago.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 07:33:10 AM by superval99 »
Goin' into Tow Law....

hunter

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Re: Wembley 85 official release on DS YouTube channel
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2023, 11:49:13 AM »
I think some of the sound choices are a little dated, the awful electronic drums, some of the synth choices.

However these songs also need to be seen as an evolutionary process. Some of us will like the baby versions, some the older, more mature ones. We ourselves will have shifting opinions....


Shifting opinions indeed. As I got increasingly less enamored with Mark's solo work (simply too low key and, frankly, dull), I could always get my "fix" by listening to and watching the Wembley and Sydney shows. Nowadays, I feel they tried to hard to make the DS music work on the big stages. The band sound and look corny to me now. Mark especially just doesn't have the charisma and stage persona that those stages require of a frontman. Your mileage may vary, of course. Clubs and max theatre-sized venues are where Mark thrives and where his music feels right.

Interesting what you say regarding the frontman thing.  It's something I've considered before but never really delved into too deeply because it doesn't bother me in the least.  Mark is effortlessly cool as he doesn't leap around, swear constantly, jump into the crowd or bring any onto the stage.  He is all the more likeable and charismatic to me for all that.

When I look at other bands/artists and see their antics I just cringe as I see their attempts to endear themselves to the audience.


I have also always liked MK for that reason, but because of the crazy success of BIA, the band suddenly became "pop stars" and played on the same stages as mega acts of that time. You need stage presence like Springsteen, McCartney or Tina Turner to really pull that off. In hindsight, I just don't think that that "suited" the band and the music. And as we know, later on Mark wanted to get away from all that.

(Of course I don't expect die-hard MK nuts like Robson to agree with any of this  ;D  )

I think the bands appeal has everything to do with the absence of that kind of bluster.

DS are an enigma of sorts if you think about it. A pub rock band playing in stadiums. The ultimate opposite of punk, used to sell and commoditize music (CD, Phillips etc), unfairly (imo) associated with yuppie culture and the worst excesses of the 80s, and yet virtuoso musicians, performing songs subverting those same associations (MFN for example), and of course something thats always forgotten, wildly more popular than just about every  other band of that era. MK  almost became the archetypal anti-frontman.

The whole DS phenomenon fascinates me....


The band were extremely lucky in that they became posterboys for the new CD medium (lots of free marketing), the amazing, new-fangled computer-animated MFN video was played a lot on MTV, plus their clean image and inoffensive songs made them palatable to a very large demographic, young and old. Very serendipitous. The music itself was not groundbreaking or outstandingly good (with the exception of BIA, the song). I'm not taking anything away from Mark's talents, but without the hits he would have been another Richard Thompson, Ry Cooder, John Hiatt, etc., all super-talented musicians, but without mainstream success.

You mentioned "virtuoso musicians", but that simply isn't true. In 85, probably Alan Clarke and Chris White might fit that description and were the best in the band in terms of technical ability; the rest were good, solid, well-rehearsed musicians, but nothing outstanding (especially John). Mark was/is different in that he has a unique touch and sound, and because he was the songwriter, he knew innately the emotional impact his playing should express. But he's not a virtuoso in the real sense of the word, even back then when he paid a lot more attention to his guitar playing.

Offline2manyguitars

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Re: Wembley 85 official release on DS YouTube channel
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2023, 03:50:52 PM »
I think some of the sound choices are a little dated, the awful electronic drums, some of the synth choices.

However these songs also need to be seen as an evolutionary process. Some of us will like the baby versions, some the older, more mature ones. We ourselves will have shifting opinions....


Shifting opinions indeed. As I got increasingly less enamored with Mark's solo work (simply too low key and, frankly, dull), I could always get my "fix" by listening to and watching the Wembley and Sydney shows. Nowadays, I feel they tried to hard to make the DS music work on the big stages. The band sound and look corny to me now. Mark especially just doesn't have the charisma and stage persona that those stages require of a frontman. Your mileage may vary, of course. Clubs and max theatre-sized venues are where Mark thrives and where his music feels right.

Interesting what you say regarding the frontman thing.  It's something I've considered before but never really delved into too deeply because it doesn't bother me in the least.  Mark is effortlessly cool as he doesn't leap around, swear constantly, jump into the crowd or bring any onto the stage.  He is all the more likeable and charismatic to me for all that.

When I look at other bands/artists and see their antics I just cringe as I see their attempts to endear themselves to the audience.


I have also always liked MK for that reason, but because of the crazy success of BIA, the band suddenly became "pop stars" and played on the same stages as mega acts of that time. You need stage presence like Springsteen, McCartney or Tina Turner to really pull that off. In hindsight, I just don't think that that "suited" the band and the music. And as we know, later on Mark wanted to get away from all that.

(Of course I don't expect die-hard MK nuts like Robson to agree with any of this  ;D  )

I think the bands appeal has everything to do with the absence of that kind of bluster.

DS are an enigma of sorts if you think about it. A pub rock band playing in stadiums. The ultimate opposite of punk, used to sell and commoditize music (CD, Phillips etc), unfairly (imo) associated with yuppie culture and the worst excesses of the 80s, and yet virtuoso musicians, performing songs subverting those same associations (MFN for example), and of course something thats always forgotten, wildly more popular than just about every  other band of that era. MK  almost became the archetypal anti-frontman.

The whole DS phenomenon fascinates me....


The band were extremely lucky in that they became posterboys for the new CD medium (lots of free marketing), the amazing, new-fangled computer-animated MFN video was played a lot on MTV, plus their clean image and inoffensive songs made them palatable to a very large demographic, young and old. Very serendipitous. The music itself was not groundbreaking or outstandingly good (with the exception of BIA, the song). I'm not taking anything away from Mark's talents, but without the hits he would have been another Richard Thompson, Ry Cooder, John Hiatt, etc., all super-talented musicians, but without mainstream success.

You mentioned "virtuoso musicians", but that simply isn't true. In 85, probably Alan Clarke and Chris White might fit that description and were the best in the band in terms of technical ability; the rest were good, solid, well-rehearsed musicians, but nothing outstanding (especially John). Mark was/is different in that he has a unique touch and sound, and because he was the songwriter, he knew innately the emotional impact his playing should express. But he's not a virtuoso in the real sense of the word, even back then when he paid a lot more attention to his guitar playing.

By virtuoso I meant how they were portrayed in the media and regarded by the critics, not in its literal sense. Obviously wile DS were chock full of good musicians they were levels below some, and Mark regularly dismissed such descriptions....

hunter

  • Guest
Re: Wembley 85 official release on DS YouTube channel
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2023, 05:53:10 PM »
I think some of the sound choices are a little dated, the awful electronic drums, some of the synth choices.

However these songs also need to be seen as an evolutionary process. Some of us will like the baby versions, some the older, more mature ones. We ourselves will have shifting opinions....


Shifting opinions indeed. As I got increasingly less enamored with Mark's solo work (simply too low key and, frankly, dull), I could always get my "fix" by listening to and watching the Wembley and Sydney shows. Nowadays, I feel they tried to hard to make the DS music work on the big stages. The band sound and look corny to me now. Mark especially just doesn't have the charisma and stage persona that those stages require of a frontman. Your mileage may vary, of course. Clubs and max theatre-sized venues are where Mark thrives and where his music feels right.

Interesting what you say regarding the frontman thing.  It's something I've considered before but never really delved into too deeply because it doesn't bother me in the least.  Mark is effortlessly cool as he doesn't leap around, swear constantly, jump into the crowd or bring any onto the stage.  He is all the more likeable and charismatic to me for all that.

When I look at other bands/artists and see their antics I just cringe as I see their attempts to endear themselves to the audience.


I have also always liked MK for that reason, but because of the crazy success of BIA, the band suddenly became "pop stars" and played on the same stages as mega acts of that time. You need stage presence like Springsteen, McCartney or Tina Turner to really pull that off. In hindsight, I just don't think that that "suited" the band and the music. And as we know, later on Mark wanted to get away from all that.

(Of course I don't expect die-hard MK nuts like Robson to agree with any of this  ;D  )

I think the bands appeal has everything to do with the absence of that kind of bluster.

DS are an enigma of sorts if you think about it. A pub rock band playing in stadiums. The ultimate opposite of punk, used to sell and commoditize music (CD, Phillips etc), unfairly (imo) associated with yuppie culture and the worst excesses of the 80s, and yet virtuoso musicians, performing songs subverting those same associations (MFN for example), and of course something thats always forgotten, wildly more popular than just about every  other band of that era. MK  almost became the archetypal anti-frontman.

The whole DS phenomenon fascinates me....


The band were extremely lucky in that they became posterboys for the new CD medium (lots of free marketing), the amazing, new-fangled computer-animated MFN video was played a lot on MTV, plus their clean image and inoffensive songs made them palatable to a very large demographic, young and old. Very serendipitous. The music itself was not groundbreaking or outstandingly good (with the exception of BIA, the song). I'm not taking anything away from Mark's talents, but without the hits he would have been another Richard Thompson, Ry Cooder, John Hiatt, etc., all super-talented musicians, but without mainstream success.

You mentioned "virtuoso musicians", but that simply isn't true. In 85, probably Alan Clarke and Chris White might fit that description and were the best in the band in terms of technical ability; the rest were good, solid, well-rehearsed musicians, but nothing outstanding (especially John). Mark was/is different in that he has a unique touch and sound, and because he was the songwriter, he knew innately the emotional impact his playing should express. But he's not a virtuoso in the real sense of the word, even back then when he paid a lot more attention to his guitar playing.

By virtuoso I meant how they were portrayed in the media and regarded by the critics, not in its literal sense. Obviously wile DS were chock full of good musicians they were levels below some, and Mark regularly dismissed such descriptions....


In that sense I agree with you. But non-musicians, and especially die-hard fans, tend to rank DS and MK a lot higher in terms of technical ability than what is actually the case.

OfflineRobson

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Re: Wembley 85 official release on DS YouTube channel
« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2023, 06:55:03 PM »
I think some of the sound choices are a little dated, the awful electronic drums, some of the synth choices.

However these songs also need to be seen as an evolutionary process. Some of us will like the baby versions, some the older, more mature ones. We ourselves will have shifting opinions....


Shifting opinions indeed. As I got increasingly less enamored with Mark's solo work (simply too low key and, frankly, dull), I could always get my "fix" by listening to and watching the Wembley and Sydney shows. Nowadays, I feel they tried to hard to make the DS music work on the big stages. The band sound and look corny to me now. Mark especially just doesn't have the charisma and stage persona that those stages require of a frontman. Your mileage may vary, of course. Clubs and max theatre-sized venues are where Mark thrives and where his music feels right.

Interesting what you say regarding the frontman thing.  It's something I've considered before but never really delved into too deeply because it doesn't bother me in the least.  Mark is effortlessly cool as he doesn't leap around, swear constantly, jump into the crowd or bring any onto the stage.  He is all the more likeable and charismatic to me for all that.

When I look at other bands/artists and see their antics I just cringe as I see their attempts to endear themselves to the audience.


I have also always liked MK for that reason, but because of the crazy success of BIA, the band suddenly became "pop stars" and played on the same stages as mega acts of that time. You need stage presence like Springsteen, McCartney or Tina Turner to really pull that off. In hindsight, I just don't think that that "suited" the band and the music. And as we know, later on Mark wanted to get away from all that.

(Of course I don't expect die-hard MK nuts like Robson to agree with any of this  ;D  )

I think the bands appeal has everything to do with the absence of that kind of bluster.

DS are an enigma of sorts if you think about it. A pub rock band playing in stadiums. The ultimate opposite of punk, used to sell and commoditize music (CD, Phillips etc), unfairly (imo) associated with yuppie culture and the worst excesses of the 80s, and yet virtuoso musicians, performing songs subverting those same associations (MFN for example), and of course something thats always forgotten, wildly more popular than just about every  other band of that era. MK  almost became the archetypal anti-frontman.

The whole DS phenomenon fascinates me....


The band were extremely lucky in that they became posterboys for the new CD medium (lots of free marketing), the amazing, new-fangled computer-animated MFN video was played a lot on MTV, plus their clean image and inoffensive songs made them palatable to a very large demographic, young and old. Very serendipitous. The music itself was not groundbreaking or outstandingly good (with the exception of BIA, the song). I'm not taking anything away from Mark's talents, but without the hits he would have been another Richard Thompson, Ry Cooder, John Hiatt, etc., all super-talented musicians, but without mainstream success.

You mentioned "virtuoso musicians", but that simply isn't true. In 85, probably Alan Clarke and Chris White might fit that description and were the best in the band in terms of technical ability; the rest were good, solid, well-rehearsed musicians, but nothing outstanding (especially John). Mark was/is different in that he has a unique touch and sound, and because he was the songwriter, he knew innately the emotional impact his playing should express. But he's not a virtuoso in the real sense of the word, even back then when he paid a lot more attention to his guitar playing.

By virtuoso I meant how they were portrayed in the media and regarded by the critics, not in its literal sense. Obviously wile DS were chock full of good musicians they were levels below some, and Mark regularly dismissed such descriptions....


In that sense I agree with you. But non-musicians, and especially die-hard fans, tend to rank DS and MK a lot higher in terms of technical ability than what is actually the case.

Because it's all very subjective. And there's nothing wrong with that.
I know the way I can see by the moonlight
Clear as the day
Now come on woman, come follow me home

hunter

  • Guest
Re: Wembley 85 official release on DS YouTube channel
« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2023, 07:02:16 PM »
I think some of the sound choices are a little dated, the awful electronic drums, some of the synth choices.

However these songs also need to be seen as an evolutionary process. Some of us will like the baby versions, some the older, more mature ones. We ourselves will have shifting opinions....


Shifting opinions indeed. As I got increasingly less enamored with Mark's solo work (simply too low key and, frankly, dull), I could always get my "fix" by listening to and watching the Wembley and Sydney shows. Nowadays, I feel they tried to hard to make the DS music work on the big stages. The band sound and look corny to me now. Mark especially just doesn't have the charisma and stage persona that those stages require of a frontman. Your mileage may vary, of course. Clubs and max theatre-sized venues are where Mark thrives and where his music feels right.

Interesting what you say regarding the frontman thing.  It's something I've considered before but never really delved into too deeply because it doesn't bother me in the least.  Mark is effortlessly cool as he doesn't leap around, swear constantly, jump into the crowd or bring any onto the stage.  He is all the more likeable and charismatic to me for all that.

When I look at other bands/artists and see their antics I just cringe as I see their attempts to endear themselves to the audience.


I have also always liked MK for that reason, but because of the crazy success of BIA, the band suddenly became "pop stars" and played on the same stages as mega acts of that time. You need stage presence like Springsteen, McCartney or Tina Turner to really pull that off. In hindsight, I just don't think that that "suited" the band and the music. And as we know, later on Mark wanted to get away from all that.

(Of course I don't expect die-hard MK nuts like Robson to agree with any of this  ;D  )

I think the bands appeal has everything to do with the absence of that kind of bluster.

DS are an enigma of sorts if you think about it. A pub rock band playing in stadiums. The ultimate opposite of punk, used to sell and commoditize music (CD, Phillips etc), unfairly (imo) associated with yuppie culture and the worst excesses of the 80s, and yet virtuoso musicians, performing songs subverting those same associations (MFN for example), and of course something thats always forgotten, wildly more popular than just about every  other band of that era. MK  almost became the archetypal anti-frontman.

The whole DS phenomenon fascinates me....


The band were extremely lucky in that they became posterboys for the new CD medium (lots of free marketing), the amazing, new-fangled computer-animated MFN video was played a lot on MTV, plus their clean image and inoffensive songs made them palatable to a very large demographic, young and old. Very serendipitous. The music itself was not groundbreaking or outstandingly good (with the exception of BIA, the song). I'm not taking anything away from Mark's talents, but without the hits he would have been another Richard Thompson, Ry Cooder, John Hiatt, etc., all super-talented musicians, but without mainstream success.

You mentioned "virtuoso musicians", but that simply isn't true. In 85, probably Alan Clarke and Chris White might fit that description and were the best in the band in terms of technical ability; the rest were good, solid, well-rehearsed musicians, but nothing outstanding (especially John). Mark was/is different in that he has a unique touch and sound, and because he was the songwriter, he knew innately the emotional impact his playing should express. But he's not a virtuoso in the real sense of the word, even back then when he paid a lot more attention to his guitar playing.

By virtuoso I meant how they were portrayed in the media and regarded by the critics, not in its literal sense. Obviously wile DS were chock full of good musicians they were levels below some, and Mark regularly dismissed such descriptions....


In that sense I agree with you. But non-musicians, and especially die-hard fans, tend to rank DS and MK a lot higher in terms of technical ability than what is actually the case.

Because it's all very subjective. And there's nothing wrong with that.


It really isn't subjective. What moves you is subjective, but not ability.

OfflineRobson

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Re: Wembley 85 official release on DS YouTube channel
« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2023, 07:07:13 PM »
You can also give an opinion about someone's abilities. And it will be subjective
« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 07:46:54 PM by Robson »
I know the way I can see by the moonlight
Clear as the day
Now come on woman, come follow me home

Offline2manyguitars

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Re: Wembley 85 official release on DS YouTube channel
« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2023, 09:16:32 PM »
You can also give an opinion about someone's abilities. And it will be subjective

Love it! Nothing like a bit of Nietzsche to liven up a music forum  ;D

hunter

  • Guest
Re: Wembley 85 official release on DS YouTube channel
« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2023, 09:37:05 PM »
You can also give an opinion about someone's abilities. And it will be subjective

Love it! Nothing like a bit of Nietzsche to liven up a music forum  ;D


I can't comment on that as I didn't do great in History of philosophy. And I've got objective proof of it  ;D

Offline2manyguitars

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Re: Wembley 85 official release on DS YouTube channel
« Reply #55 on: August 07, 2023, 12:40:27 AM »
You can also give an opinion about someone's abilities. And it will be subjective

Love it! Nothing like a bit of Nietzsche to liven up a music forum  ;D


I can't comment on that as I didn't do great in History of philosophy. And I've got objective proof of it  ;D

I'm ignoring those comments because you don't exist  ;) :D

hunter

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Re: Wembley 85 official release on DS YouTube channel
« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2023, 01:35:35 AM »
You can also give an opinion about someone's abilities. And it will be subjective

Love it! Nothing like a bit of Nietzsche to liven up a music forum  ;D


I can't comment on that as I didn't do great in History of philosophy. And I've got objective proof of it  ;D

I'm ignoring those comments because you don't exist  ;) :D


That's just your subjective opinion.

OfflineTJ

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Re: Wembley 85 official release on DS YouTube channel
« Reply #57 on: August 07, 2023, 07:58:24 PM »
I think some of the sound choices are a little dated, the awful electronic drums, some of the synth choices.

However these songs also need to be seen as an evolutionary process. Some of us will like the baby versions, some the older, more mature ones. We ourselves will have shifting opinions....


Shifting opinions indeed. As I got increasingly less enamored with Mark's solo work (simply too low key and, frankly, dull), I could always get my "fix" by listening to and watching the Wembley and Sydney shows. Nowadays, I feel they tried to hard to make the DS music work on the big stages. The band sound and look corny to me now. Mark especially just doesn't have the charisma and stage persona that those stages require of a frontman. Your mileage may vary, of course. Clubs and max theatre-sized venues are where Mark thrives and where his music feels right.

Interesting what you say regarding the frontman thing.  It's something I've considered before but never really delved into too deeply because it doesn't bother me in the least.  Mark is effortlessly cool as he doesn't leap around, swear constantly, jump into the crowd or bring any onto the stage.  He is all the more likeable and charismatic to me for all that.

When I look at other bands/artists and see their antics I just cringe as I see their attempts to endear themselves to the audience.


I have also always liked MK for that reason, but because of the crazy success of BIA, the band suddenly became "pop stars" and played on the same stages as mega acts of that time. You need stage presence like Springsteen, McCartney or Tina Turner to really pull that off. In hindsight, I just don't think that that "suited" the band and the music. And as we know, later on Mark wanted to get away from all that.

(Of course I don't expect die-hard MK nuts like Robson to agree with any of this  ;D  )

I think the bands appeal has everything to do with the absence of that kind of bluster.

DS are an enigma of sorts if you think about it. A pub rock band playing in stadiums. The ultimate opposite of punk, used to sell and commoditize music (CD, Phillips etc), unfairly (imo) associated with yuppie culture and the worst excesses of the 80s, and yet virtuoso musicians, performing songs subverting those same associations (MFN for example), and of course something thats always forgotten, wildly more popular than just about every  other band of that era. MK  almost became the archetypal anti-frontman.

The whole DS phenomenon fascinates me....


The band were extremely lucky in that they became posterboys for the new CD medium (lots of free marketing), the amazing, new-fangled computer-animated MFN video was played a lot on MTV, plus their clean image and inoffensive songs made them palatable to a very large demographic, young and old. Very serendipitous. The music itself was not groundbreaking or outstandingly good (with the exception of BIA, the song). I'm not taking anything away from Mark's talents, but without the hits he would have been another Richard Thompson, Ry Cooder, John Hiatt, etc., all super-talented musicians, but without mainstream success.

You mentioned "virtuoso musicians", but that simply isn't true. In 85, probably Alan Clarke and Chris White might fit that description and were the best in the band in terms of technical ability; the rest were good, solid, well-rehearsed musicians, but nothing outstanding (especially John). Mark was/is different in that he has a unique touch and sound, and because he was the songwriter, he knew innately the emotional impact his playing should express. But he's not a virtuoso in the real sense of the word, even back then when he paid a lot more attention to his guitar playing.

By virtuoso I meant how they were portrayed in the media and regarded by the critics, not in its literal sense. Obviously wile DS were chock full of good musicians they were levels below some, and Mark regularly dismissed such descriptions....


In that sense I agree with you. But non-musicians, and especially die-hard fans, tend to rank DS and MK a lot higher in terms of technical ability than what is actually the case.

Because it's all very subjective. And there's nothing wrong with that.


It really isn't subjective. What moves you is subjective, but not ability.

I remember having a discussion with a guy in my high school English class, many many years ago - probably 1987 or 88.  He was a guitarist, and he asked me who i thought the best guitarist going was.  Of course I said MK.  He laughed and said all of Mark's stuff was super easy to play.  He suggested Yngwie Malmsteen.  I told him we were approaching the question from very different angles.
Talk soft, carry a big stick, and pack the biggest gun.

OfflineJules

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Re: Wembley 85 official release on DS YouTube channel
« Reply #58 on: August 07, 2023, 08:27:28 PM »
I know we are in the century of the streamings and all those digital things but, I don't get the value of putting online all these videos and don't release them in any physical format properly.

It's ok to get the files from the source, license it and put it in the official YouTube channel to get visits (and money) but it seems dull for me.

Dusty and I had previous discussions about what can be considered as an official release or not and we had different views. Mine was that official releases are all available in physical formats (lp, casettes, CDs, VHS, dvd, Blu-ray) and that form part of the official discography. For me everything else is just drops of attention directed to fans but don't form part of the official discography.
So Long

Offline2manyguitars

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Re: Wembley 85 official release on DS YouTube channel
« Reply #59 on: August 08, 2023, 01:50:16 AM »
I know we are in the century of the streamings and all those digital things but, I don't get the value of putting online all these videos and don't release them in any physical format properly.

It's ok to get the files from the source, license it and put it in the official YouTube channel to get visits (and money) but it seems dull for me.

Dusty and I had previous discussions about what can be considered as an official release or not and we had different views. Mine was that official releases are all available in physical formats (lp, casettes, CDs, VHS, dvd, Blu-ray) and that form part of the official discography. For me everything else is just drops of attention directed to fans but don't form part of the official discography.

I agree completely, but sadly physical media is all but dead.

Did you see that they are starting to phase out DVDs in certain territories? The idea of holding any kind of physical media in your hands will rapidly become niche in the next few years.....

 

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