On The Night - Ridiculously Bad???

[mariosboss]

Couple of things, I’m not sure what there is to disagree about LOG, Pick himself said that a drum machine was used for the industrial sounds on Industrial Disease, the link has been posted on here several times now.

And were the Little Angels unknown?! 30 years ago they had a UK number one album!

This was a favourite

https://youtu.be/JSgUti27vtw?si=PwtdSOVvWHUaWFAo

I'm not sure who it was I had the disagreement with but my original point a few months back was that Pick used a drum machine on Industrial Disease but someone disagreed with me.I got the info from a Pick interview.

Regarding Little Angels wow can't believe you've heard of them! One thing that may pass by Chris as it seems i'm digressing BUT I'm sure he can relate to this story is the Little Angels had 2 excellent drummers in their ranks. Michael Lee i've mentioned but his replacement was Mark Richardson who went onto play with Skunk Anansie and Feeder. Funny thing is for the Jam album back in 1993, Richardson was considered too green to play on the whole album, so instead non other than Pete Thomas of Elvis Costello and The Attractions fame came in as a session musician to perform on the album. Mark Richardson however didn't throw his toys of the pram and he took the decision extremely well and spent the time learning from Pete... Chris I know has replaced numerous drummers on sessions... and quite often not credited. But I thought it was fascinating to hear. Not sure if you've had that same sort of respect back? I suppose it depends on the band dynamics. Mark Richardson was young and like i've said green at the time. We also know that Terry Williams was replaced for most of BIA and he took it extremely well too...

[Pottel]

Respectfully disagree about it being a great album cover. It's just a random picture of satellite dishes, doesn't really mean anything to me.

always loved it, just a nice picture. and it is on the night as well :-)

[Pottel]

sure as hell hope Chris will keep posting his pov on his time with MK and band (as well as with Macca pls)
i find it amazing that we can do this with a guy that was actually there on stage, with an interesting point of view at that...

[Chris W]

It's not a great feeling to be replaced on a recording session.
Back in the day it caused a lot of ill feeling between the band's drummer and the other members.
Once computer recording came in (90's) very few band drummers had to be replaced because you could edit their playing to be more in time and you could add drum samples to improve the drum sound.

[Chris W]

I have yet to find an open air recording from 1992 where Mark does not shout "yeah" or "alright" or "you alright".
I don't know where this idea comes from that he really only shouted a greeting at the indoor shows. In my 40 years experience of lead singers, often when they do something and it garners a great reaction, they do it again the next show, then the next, etc....

[Brunno Nunes]

I have yet to find an open air recording from 1992 where Mark does not shout "yeah" or "alright" or "you alright".
I don't know where this idea comes from that he really only shouted a greeting at the indoor shows. In my 40 years experience of lead singers, often when they do something and it garners a great reaction, they do it again the next show, then the next, etc....

With all due respect, Chris, but, I notice that you are very resistant to understanding what I have been showing you all this time

In CE on OTN, right after the first lick that Mark makes on the guitar, at 00:24 seconds, notice that Mark makes a salute, the song is in progress.

https://youtu.be/BJii3ACoqDc?si=VYVYepgjZ49UDhn8

  I defy you or anyone to find it happening this way, at this point in the song in one of the recordings available on Bootleg that were used for OTN, Nimes or Rotterdam.
In fact, this only happens as it is on OTN in shows like the ones in Paris in April 1992, as you can see here at 00:52 seconds

https://youtu.be/TJ3BQuxj2KQ?si=47ejjvhbH8Vnepnn


Or here, at 01:49 min.

https://youtu.be/G9K2Y7fW2Os?si=neTVgCjTsZu_3acO


This was the pattern I had noticed, the greeting done in the current song, right after the first lick, does not occur in the shows they filmed for OTN

I never said that Mark doesn't shout a greeting at outdoor shows, I mentioned that as it is on OTN it's a montage, that's all and I showed where they possibly got the greeting from and put it in OTN's CE when they produced this track.

I respect you a lot for being an integral member of the band on this tour, but, look, I'm showing the facts that I came across, if you look, follow this itinerary that I'm leaving here for everyone, I'm sure you'll understand better.

[Mossguitar]

I’m afraid I’m still struggling to understand what you mean, Brunno.

So what you are saying is that he shouted «yeah, are you all right?» (or something) on outdoor shows before the band started playing and on indoor shows after the band started playing? (Could that be due to the curtains beeing used on indoor shows?) So the greeting on On The Night must either be a cut from some indoor show or a cut from before they started playing and then put in again «indoor style»? Or do you know that he did shout in a different way on the night(s) of recording CE?

[herlock]

But we don't have all the Nîmes and Rotterdam bootlegs, right? So this could come from one of the missing nights?

[Chris W]

At the open air shows there was no curtain drop. So the song started with Danny on snare and Guy playing the echo synth note. Mark and John walked out from the centre rear of the stage and as the crowd saw them there was a loud roar and standing ovation. At that point, Mark pumped his fist in the air and shouted something, usually along the lines of "you alright".
It was claimed he didn't do this at the open air shows. Then it was claimed he didn't do it before playing his guitar at the indoor shows?
Either way, there is a 'you alright' shouted on the official live albums like OTN, and it was claimed because he didn't shout 'you alright' at the open air shows it must have been edited.
All of which I find sketchy at best.
From my memory, after the USA section and into the open air shows, mark shouted something at the beginning of CE most nights, maybe all nights.

[Jules]

At the open air shows there was no curtain drop. So the song started with Danny on snare and Guy playing the echo synth note. Mark and John walked out from the centre rear of the stage and as the crowd saw them there was a loud roar and standing ovation. At that point, Mark pumped his fist in the air and shouted something, usually along the lines of "you alright".
It was claimed he didn't do this at the open air shows. Then it was claimed he didn't do it before playing his guitar at the indoor shows?
Either way, there is a 'you alright' shouted on the official live albums like OTN, and it was claimed because he didn't shout 'you alright' at the open air shows it must have been edited.
All of which I find sketchy at best.
From my memory, after the USA section and into the open air shows, mark shouted something at the beginning of CE most nights, maybe all nights.

And again, this is NOT what Brunno has been sayingm or the meaning of he has been saying.

Nevermind 

[iorch82]

At the open air shows there was no curtain drop. So the song started with Danny on snare and Guy playing the echo synth note. Mark and John walked out from the centre rear of the stage and as the crowd saw them there was a loud roar and standing ovation. At that point, Mark pumped his fist in the air and shouted something, usually along the lines of "you alright".
It was claimed he didn't do this at the open air shows. Then it was claimed he didn't do it before playing his guitar at the indoor shows?
Either way, there is a 'you alright' shouted on the official live albums like OTN, and it was claimed because he didn't shout 'you alright' at the open air shows it must have been edited.
All of which I find sketchy at best.
From my memory, after the USA section and into the open air shows, mark shouted something at the beginning of CE most nights, maybe all nights.

Chris, I am very curious. What made the US leg that unprofitable? Were you playing at half-full venues? There're almost no pics from any of these shows on the internet.

[Chris W]

And I quote:

I usually analyze patterns in everything I research, it's something fundamental and makes a total difference in the result, I noticed that Mark always did that type of greeting at the beginning of CE, like we heard on OTN, only at shows in closed places, in places Open stadiums like Nimes, Rotterdam, and other stadiums, he didn't greet the audience like that, he usually greeted them by raising his arm high and with a closed fist.

In the OTN video they cut out all the roar from the crowd with Mark soaking it up, probably just because they thought it was better to get on with the song and not waste time. Again, I highly doubt they sampled in the "yeah alright" on it's own, it is fairly redundant in the bigger picture.
They may have chopped in the whole intro section from a Paris show because the band got on with the song more, and there was less hanging around soaking up the audience cheers like on the bigger open air shows.

[Chris W]

Chris, I am very curious. What made the US leg that unprofitable? Were you playing at half-full venues? There're almost no pics from any of these shows on the internet.

Yes, the tour was over scheduled. I think we were there nearly three months. In the bigger markets we played to sold out shows, but there were other shows with more vacant seats. We played places I'd never played before on a major tour, like Saskatchewan, a casino in Vegas for one night, a University sports arena. So it just seemed badly scheduled from my point of view, and the vibe had gone from the Money For Nothing era. Grunge was king.

[benducret]

Edited or not, isn't this "yeah alright" thing and MK salute the smallest detail of all microscopic details ? That's how almost every show started, I really couldn't care less where it has been edited from.

Many OES tour shows being interchangeable, due to their srcipted and orchestrated nature
we may wonder to what extent it has been edited but the result sounds and looks exactly like 90% of the shows on that tour.

It's not like if you edited bits of other concerts into John Coltrane live at Newport 1965, since the spirit and narrative of the impros themselves varied from day to day. And the sound too.

I'd say that the track list on the original OTN/Encores/DVD release was much more of a problem and a questionnable strategy than any video or audio edit that may have been done.

[benducret]

Chris, I am very curious. What made the US leg that unprofitable? Were you playing at half-full venues? There're almost no pics from any of these shows on the internet.

Yes, the tour was over scheduled. I think we were there nearly three months. In the bigger markets we played to sold out shows, but there were other shows with more vacant seats. We played places I'd never played before on a major tour, like Saskatchewan, a casino in Vegas for one night, a University sports arena. So it just seemed badly scheduled from my point of view, and the vibe had gone from the Money For Nothing era. Grunge was king.

Grunge was the ultimate anti-DireStraits thing. I must say that I turned away from dire straits in the mid-eighties, and got into the indie scene, hard core, or alt pop. Dire Straits became the epitome of commercial FM rock, if rock at all, and in the USA they never were as big as in Europe, or for a much shorter period.

When OES was released, I was waiting for it due to my past history with their music as a young teenager in the early 80s. But I just couldn't listen to it. I didn't see them live on that tour. When OES was announced the first thing I thought was "I'm gonna see them live ! Dream come true !".
In the end I saw many bands in arenas and small clubs but never even thought about buying a ticket for DS.