On The Night - Ridiculously Bad???

[Matchstickman]

To me, the great surprise was learning that CE is a composite of different nights. That is a different ballgame to simply polishing up a bad note here and there. If this is the case, then the OTN version only exists on that album and was never actually played live in one go. 

I want my childhood back! 😅

[Jules]

To me, the great surprise was learning that CE is a composite of different nights. That is a different ballgame to simply polishing up a bad note here and there. If this is the case, then the OTN version only exists on that album and was never actually played live in one go. 

I want my childhood back! 😅

You'll always have any of the live broadcasts from that tour!

[Chris W]

then the OTN version only exists on that album and was never actually played live in one go. 

We played it 300+ times in one go - and people loved it. As jbaent says above, it exists in the Basel video and in the bootlegs. I defy anyone to say they heard any edits before Guy mentioned relatively recently they'd edited some sections together.
I pretty much played the same every show - likewise Danny C. So if there was any editing it was to find whole verses or whole solos that were preferred to other ones.
It's creative and subjective, it's not that the sections were unusable, it's just that they found other verses or solos they preferred.

[dustyvalentino]

Even as a child I could tell that OTN was phony.

It wasn't 'phony', again the comments are way too extreme. On The Night is a standard live album, like most other live albums.
I was part of the show (obviously). I have watched the Basel videos on Youtube many times, also watched the OTN DVD and listened to the OTN live album. None of it ever struck me as fake. I obviously understood, as a professional musician, that live albums and videos are edited, remixed, patched up to fix any obvious mistakes.

My definition of phony is “not real” - and we’ve established that it wasn’t a real live recording, so child me was correct. The revelation that nearly every other “live” album is also phony doesn’t change that.

[dustyvalentino]

Neil Dorfsman was heavily involved in the making of 'Flowers In The Dirt' the McCartney album I played on.
It also sounds too 'perfect'. Heavily manipulated/processed acoustic drums.
Mark obviously had a choice on OTN and agreed to go with that vision of perfection.
I like and am proud of Basel too.
I just think there is too much OTT language in these discussions - like a record being 'phoney', and artists being 'ashamed' of their live recordings etc..

I mean the title too - ridiculously bad?
No, it is not to your taste, as 'bad' is subjective and one person's ridiculously bad is another person's ridiculously great. Either way it's more of an opinion than a fact.

It’s a discussion forum. People post their opinions. Of course they are subjective. In the opening post I posted my opinion and asked others for theirs. It’s not like I insulted someone’s mother or something 

[Matchstickman]

then the OTN version only exists on that album and was never actually played live in one go. 

We played it 300+ times in one go - and people loved it. As jbaent says above, it exists in the Basel video and in the bootlegs. I defy anyone to say they heard any edits before Guy mentioned relatively recently they'd edited some sections together.
I pretty much played the same every show - likewise Danny C. So if there was any editing it was to find whole verses or whole solos that were preferred to other ones.
It's creative and subjective, it's not that the sections were unusable, it's just that they found other verses or solos they preferred.

Indeed, I nearly said the same thing. As far as I can tell, it was not primarily a matter of getting rid of mistakes. Mark saw the opportunity to present a "perfect" version of CE as he defined it then, possibly using guitar licks from various performances. In my view, the question has never been about drums or any other instrument in particular. The editing certainly fooled me.

[Matchstickman]

To me, the great surprise was learning that CE is a composite of different nights. That is a different ballgame to simply polishing up a bad note here and there. If this is the case, then the OTN version only exists on that album and was never actually played live in one go. 

I want my childhood back! 😅

You'll always have any of the live broadcasts from that tour!

Yes. Of course all of the other performances exist. But this thread is about OTN. 🙂

[Brunno Nunes]

then the OTN version only exists on that album and was never actually played live in one go. 

We played it 300+ times in one go - and people loved it. As jbaent says above, it exists in the Basel video and in the bootlegs. I defy anyone to say they heard any edits before Guy mentioned relatively recently they'd edited some sections together.
I pretty much played the same every show - likewise Danny C. So if there was any editing it was to find whole verses or whole solos that were preferred to other ones.
It's creative and subjective, it's not that the sections were unusable, it's just that they found other verses or solos they preferred.

Indeed, I nearly said the same thing. As far as I can tell, it was not primarily a matter of getting rid of mistakes. Mark saw the opportunity to present a "perfect" version of CE as he defined it then, possibly using guitar licks from various performances. In my view, the question has never been about drums or any other instrument in particular. The editing certainly fooled me.

Exactly, as for CE on OTN, it's clear to me that Mark wanted the perfect version of this song, which is why it's the song that had the most editing for this release, and it's all focused on his guitar licks that were the result of some clippings from different shows between Nimes and Rotterdam, it has nothing to do with the drums, percussion, keyboard, bass...

[benducret]

I've never been a fan of the BIA-OES era, hence not a big fan of OTN either. Over-produced, too perfect music, too much keyboards, not enough energy, etc etc.

That said, OTN being edited doesn't really shock me.

I mean, it has been rehearsed, written, scripted... that MK wanted it to be perfect for the live recording, I can understand, it makes sense.

It's not a jazz concert, it's not Black flag or fugazi either, or mars volta or whatever.

OTN being heavily edited and over-produced makes sense.

As an occasionnal listener I never heard much différence between différent versions of Calling Elvis. Licks are pretty much always the same. It's not like if MK was ever trying to take great risks or take the band to unknown régions of creativity.

Just my opinion.

[Chris W]

t has nothing to do with the drums, percussion, keyboard, bass...

So none of those instruments are 'phony'?
It IS in fact all played live not reconstructed. I have no idea what was edited or how much was edited. We have your word for it, but I have serious concerns over your comments about Marks' "you alright" greeting.....so I'm just not sure.
I also wonder why CE would be so heavily altered as you claim, seeing as it is one of the easiest songs to play in the entire show (arguably the easiest), while much of the other material in the show was far more complex to pull off.

[Chris W]

As an occasionnal listener I never heard much différence between différent versions of Calling Elvis. Licks are pretty much always the same.

Right, so why the need to heavily edit and remake it with a lot of overdubs?
We have one person's claim that is is so heavily edited, and everyone has just accepted it as fact.

[Jules]

As an occasionnal listener I never heard much différence between différent versions of Calling Elvis. Licks are pretty much always the same.

Right, so why the need to heavily edit and remake it with a lot of overdubs?
We have one person's claim that is is so heavily edited, and everyone has just accepted it as fact.

That comment is quite unfair Chris. We have several audience recordings of Nimes and Rotterdam concerts that were used for OTN and this person has checked them. He's not claimed anything, he checked the audience recordings and compared it with the OTN version, some parts fits perfectly with one recording, some fits with others, and some parts are not in any of the recrodings we have so, it's a fact.

[Chris W]

That comment is quite unfair Chris. We have several audience recordings of Nimes and Rotterdam concerts that were used for OTN and this person has checked them. He's not claimed anything,

He's claimed two things (at least)...
1) That CE was heavily edited and overdubbed on, but mostly heavily edited.
2) That Mark rarely shouted "you alright" in the open air shows.
In my distant memory I remember Mark shouting "you alright" at most shows. I went to the (tedious) trouble of checking a couple of live bootlegs from open air shows and found Mark shouted "you alright" at both.
Which calls into question the claim he didn't shout it at mist open air shows, which then calls into question the claim that CE is heavily edited.
If the drums, bass, percussion and keyboards were the same over many shows, how do you hear the edits. It could be that elements of the guitars were overdubbed in the mix studio, which is 1) much more common and 2) much more likely.
I suspect they edited longer sections from a few shows that were recorded - like for example taking the whole percussion solo and cutting it into a previous show. But that doesn't make the live album version phony.

[benducret]

As an occasionnal listener I never heard much différence between différent versions of Calling Elvis. Licks are pretty much always the same.

Right, so why the need to heavily edit and remake it with a lot of overdubs?
We have one person's claim that is is so heavily edited, and everyone has just accepted it as fact.

Good question .

For no reason that I can understand. The final result is a performance like any, or at least most other ones (I guess, if I read you well) on that tour.
It might as well have been non-edited, or lightly.

[dustyvalentino]

t has nothing to do with the drums, percussion, keyboard, bass...

So none of those instruments are 'phony'?

This seems to have hit a nerve and seeing as it was me that said it, I will clarify my comment.

I did not say that any of the playing was phony, or in fact criticise any of the playing. I said that the way that OTN was put together meant it was phony, based on having listened incessantly to the CD bootleg of Basel that I had before OTN was released.

For what it's worth, I was 14 in 1992. I'm now 45. The On Every Street album and subsequent tour fired up a love of music inside me that still exists to this day. I'm sitting here in my home office, surrounded by thousands of CDs and records, and quite a few guitars, and this obsession all fell out of that album and that tour, so I thank you for your part in it. Towering over everything in the room is this framed poster.



So this all means a lot to me, but it doesn't get away from the fact that I was disappointed by On The Night when it was released. I haven't got the box set yet (my birthday is in a couple of weeks) but when I listen again maybe I will feel differently these days.