On The Night - Ridiculously Bad???

[Brunno Nunes]

Anyone who has doubts about overdubs on OTN, just listen to the 4 shows that were used to create OTN and you will realize that there are guitar and voice parts that are only present in the final product that configures OTN, if not overdubs it was an entity that downloaded in the recording process, hahaha!

[ds1984]

OTN filming is from 4 shows but audio?

We know that more shows were recorded and can provide patches.

[Brunno Nunes]

OTN filming is from 4 shows but audio?

We know that more shows were recorded and can provide patches.

That's right, they filmed 4 concerts, two in Rotterdam and two in Nimes, with an interval of 10 days and from that they "sewed" transforming it into a true mosaic, Calling Elvis for example, contains scenes and audio parts of the 4 concerts, and has audio parts that are not in any of the shows that were used to assemble the OTN, (we have the Bootlegs of these recordings to analyze and verify), the same thing happens with Portobello Belle live present in the MFN compilation, there are parts of the vocal that are not are on any recording of the 5 Nights in Paris in June 1983, or they were taken from some other show that the band recorded that we don't have on bootlegs, or it was overdubbed. Remembering that Mark Knopfler is the producer of the tracks "Portobello Belle-Live" and "Where do you think You're Going" present in the aforementioned 1988 MFN collection, this information appears in the album credits.

[2manyguitars]

Makes me laugh the conspiracies thrown around on here. Obviously the opinions of the musicians or in this case specifically the producer of the album don't matter.

And what do we draw from this?

2 things. 90% of musicians are cheats/charlatans, and fans love a conspiracy, even when debunked Guy himself.

Have fun!

[Brunno Nunes]

I prefer to investigate the available recordings and find an answer to my doubts, than to blindly believe what Guy wants to write in his forum, with all his comfort in writing whatever he wants so as not to bother him. I think it's more commendable and intelligent to go check out the recordings and see the facts, you can't blindly believe what is said by the musicians, just look at how modest the DS and MK releases are, remember, Alchemy has been sold for decades as a record without overdubs, this has been demystified, it's just an example that there is no conspiracy theory in what is being shown here about OTN.

[Rolo]

Makes me laugh the conspiracies thrown around on here. Obviously the opinions of the musicians or in this case specifically the producer of the album don't matter.

And what do we draw from this?

2 things. 90% of musicians are cheats/charlatans, and fans love a conspiracy, even when debunked Guy himself.

Have fun!

I'm sorry, Chris.
But people on this topic had opinions or doubts about making overdubs on live records, witch some of us have no problem saying, suspect or making statements about the OTN record.

You ran a studio for 25 years.
I had a part-time job on a studio for 5 years and i recorded on few studios (big and small ones) and, surprinsingly i worked overdubbing parts for a live record (DVD) that i participate in 2007 called "São João da Capitá"

In this clip:


I was called to replace a bass part because my bass was muted at the begining of the song. (10 or 20 seconds)
The guitar player needed to replace one pair of chords as well.
We spend about 2 hours on the studio
And its a sh*t recording by the way.

Brunno are a DS/MK researcher. So was part of his fun-time to find this gaps. And, believe me, he as a LOT of research about it.

There is no shame on overdub live records.
Its part of the business. I don't care.
Peter Frampton made overdubs, Kiss made overdubs and Dire Straits made overbubs and there is no problem about it.

Guy is 'the perfect lier'
He will never tell about things like that because he knows the behaviour of a hard fan.
But he is a great source of information.

If "Mark never looks back", probably songs like Speedway, Remembrance Day or Secondary Waltz should not have been released.
This sentence is more about philosophy in certain way.

People showed his opinions and people decides what do with it.
If you or Eddie don't believe that MK made overdubs, thats totally fine.
Simple as that.

[Rolo]

2 things. 90% of musicians are cheats/charlatans, and fans love a conspiracy, even when debunked Guy himself.

You know that a LOT of musicians use Melodyne.
Singers, guitar players, sax players...

Many drum tracks need to be resync with the beat.

There are musicians that are charlatans? Yes!
Fans love a conspiracy? Yes!
Guy always tell the truth? No!

[Eddie Fox]

Makes me laugh the conspiracies thrown around on here. Obviously the opinions of the musicians or in this case specifically the producer of the album don't matter.

And what do we draw from this?

2 things. 90% of musicians are cheats/charlatans, and fans love a conspiracy, even when debunked Guy himself.

Have fun!

Yeah… I mean, the producer himself, with the tapes laying literally next to him, said he can’t find overdubs. Hard to beat it.

Several gigs were recorded, only a couple were filmed. There’s no mystery there really.

[Eddie Fox]

2 things. 90% of musicians are cheats/charlatans, and fans love a conspiracy, even when debunked Guy himself.

You know that a LOT of musicians use Melodyne.
Singers, guitar players, sax players...

Many drum tracks need to be resync with the beat.

There are musicians that are charlatans? Yes!
Fans love a conspiracy? Yes!
Guy always tell the truth? No!

That’s Mark Knopfler, mate… let’s ignore the fact he hated overdubs before BG, the fact that experienced musicians explained it’s less practical and also the fact that the producer of the album said there are no overdubs he can identify on the master tapes. Let’s be subjective for a minute. Mr K was fed up with big tours and DS and couldn’t wait to move away from that. He was also going through divorce. Do you really think after all that he’d bother to grab a bunch of guitars and amps, head to some studio who knows where and play guitar parts he was probably sick of hearing let alone play them? I don’t think so.

[2manyguitars]

Makes me laugh the conspiracies thrown around on here. Obviously the opinions of the musicians or in this case specifically the producer of the album don't matter.

And what do we draw from this?

2 things. 90% of musicians are cheats/charlatans, and fans love a conspiracy, even when debunked Guy himself.

Have fun!

Yeah… I mean, the producer himself, with the tapes laying literally next to him, said he can’t find overdubs. Hard to beat it.

Several gigs were recorded, only a couple were filmed. There’s no mystery there really.

I use Melodyne too, along with autotune, time stretching, AI voices, etc. Just not on live recordings.

I take Eddie's point about fixing seconds of a track due to technical problems. My first instinct in this situation is to look for a splice that is as close to the original as possible. I've even on request from a client patched crackly tracks with a midi sample instrument taken from the original. I suppose the question really is how much of this can you do before its no longer a live performance?

For me its an ethical issue. I'm a big fan of integrity  and I didn't pay good money for Queen almost live in Pompeii or Kiss Almost Alive (worst example ever of cheating).

If its a short passage, fix it with something as close to the original as possible, or even a short overdub. If you can't genuinely pull it off live then just don't.

So when is a live album not a live album?!...

[Rolo]

That’s Mark Knopfler, mate… let’s ignore the fact he hated overdubs before BG, the fact that experienced musicians explained it’s less practical and also the fact that the producer of the album said there are no overdubs he can identify on the master tapes. Let’s be subjective for a minute. Mr K was fed up with big tours and DS and couldn’t wait to move away from that. He was also going through divorce. Do you really think after all that he’d bother to grab a bunch of guitars and amps, head to some studio who knows where and play guitar parts he was probably sick of hearing let alone play them? I don’t think so.

 

[Rolo]

I use Melodyne too, along with autotune, time stretching, AI voices, etc. Just not on live recordings.

I take Eddie's point about fixing seconds of a track due to technical problems. My first instinct in this situation is to look for a splice that is as close to the original as possible. I've even on request from a client patched crackly tracks with a midi sample instrument taken from the original. I suppose the question really is how much of this can you do before its no longer a live performance?

For me its an ethical issue. I'm a big fan of integrity  and I didn't pay good money for Queen almost live in Pompeii or Kiss Almost Alive (worst example ever of cheating).

If its a short passage, fix it with something as close to the original as possible, or even a short overdub. If you can't genuinely pull it off live then just don't.

So when is a live album not a live album?!...

 

[Robson]

I always thought four dates were important for On The Night album: May 20th and 21st at Les Arenes in Nimes, France and May 30th and 31st at the Feyenoord Stadium in the Netherlands. Brunno mentions two additional dates: May 28, 1992 and May 29, 1992. 

Didn't they have a day off on May 28th?

[2manyguitars]

This all reminds me of a client I had in the studio years ago. Heavy metal band. Live recording at a local venue. When they weren't satisfied with their performance they wanted to use Drumagog to replace every drum hit from a 3 plus hour gig. Of course I told them where the nearest exit door was...

This brings us nicely on to the use of technology. I'm actually quite uncomfortable with what can be done in your average DAW now. I was one of those guys, a purist I suppose, who despised certain uses technology up to a point. Then drum machines evolved to the point where you can't tell it apart from the real deal, synthesis now gives us the perfect piano sound, brass is now perfectly imitated (Much to the disappointment of some on here  ), you don't even need to sing in tune anymore (Isn't melodyne brilliant!).

And of course the next step, A.I. Myself and a student recently had great fun creating a rap and using Snoop Dogg and Eminem as the main voices! But where does all this end? I can see a situation where in less than 10 years time we will see music released by AI mimicking your favorite dead artist.

Thoughts.....?

[Robson]

Either way, the booklet from album has true information:

Recorded Les Arenes, Nimes, France and Feyenoord Stadium, Rotterdam, Netherlands - May 1992