On The Night - Ridiculously Bad???

[Brunno Nunes]

I really tend to analyze the evolution of certain songs over the course of every tour. On the OES tour, one of the songs that had the most addition of new elements, different intro and ending formats is Private Investigations, in May 1992, (OTN time) they had arrived at the definitive format of this song on this tour. Another example is Romeo and Juliet and The Bug, to a lesser extent, Heavy Fuel, Planet of New Orleans. PONO is its ending that in 1992 has a little less bars at the end, HF with the same intro as in the studio and a bridgeless ending with RJ and the introduction with drums and licks by MK, in addition to the bridge. It was a shame the band left Planet of New Orleans at the end of April, if it makes it to May it could have joined OTN, it was a big waste, on the other hand, in that period the band was playing When it Comes to You and Fade to Black, who deserved a presence on OTN, alias, that is exactly what is the biggest failure of the official live releases, the absence of songs that were played, making the record an incomplete experience of what was a real show of the band in that period, for For me this is a true sacrilege, it is present in all releases, from Alchemy, OTN, ANIL, Real Live. Even the Sultans Of Swing Clip is mangled, lacking a stanza and cumulus, final solo, biggest climax of the song with a fade-out at the beginning of the solo... I always found something schizophrenic about it.

[hunter]

I loved OTN when it came out. I'm about the same age as Dusty. I thought the sound was so much better than the Basel VHS I had (well, no wonder given the medium). It quickly got boring, though, and there are only two tracks I love from that recording, and that is You And Your Friend and Brothers In Arms. Oh, man. Mark and Paul Franklin ... The interplay is just unbelievable, and I love the pedal steel solo on BIA.


I haven't watched the whole concert, so can't say about the video quality. I don't like Basel, that's for sure. They are switching shots every two seconds almost. You can get dizzy from less.


The shows from that tour had their moments, but overall they lack charm and magic.

[Rolo]

to me Mark is a great melodist, a great composer in instrumental sections, but not very good in improvisation
For example, Sultans versions on last tours when he tried to "improvise" were not the best ones imho. his solos went to nowhere

his best instrumental parts in his career are the ones tha he composed imho, not the ones he improvised

i'm a bit latter on this topic.

I agree and disagree about this subject, JF.
I think that great improvisers are great melodists. In my school, a improvise is a spontaneously composition.The fact that MK has a great number of magnificent solos, in my opinion, prooves that he has a great sense of improvisation, but in his own language.

But, I agree that Mark do not take risks on his improvisations what makes it a bit previsible and, not to take risks, tends to push him away from the improvisor thing. But, as i said, its his language.

In my opinion, the most 'improvised' DS tour was the OES. I Think I Love You Too Much and Fade To Black and the pinacle of 'Dire Straits Improvisation Series'

I always believed that Mark is a great Project Owner too, because i feel that every tour setlist was 90% the same. The vibe was the same and the only musician that plays something different was MK himself and he is not playing really diferent stuff. He is selling a product? Yes. I'm sure he is.

I cannot listen more than 5 bootlegs per tour because i feel that its almost the same thing every show. Maybe if the band was more open to the improvisational thing, at least for me, the thing could be more interesting to hear.

So, 60% Agreed 

[JF]

to me Mark is a great melodist, a great composer in instrumental sections, but not very good in improvisation
For example, Sultans versions on last tours when he tried to "improvise" were not the best ones imho. his solos went to nowhere

his best instrumental parts in his career are the ones tha he composed imho, not the ones he improvised

i'm a bit latter on this topic.

I agree and disagree about this subject, JF.
I think that great improvisers are great melodists. In my school, a improvise is a spontaneously composition.The fact that MK has a great number of magnificent solos, in my opinion, prooves that he has a great sense of improvisation, but in his own language.

But, I agree that Mark do not take risks on his improvisations what makes it a bit previsible and, not to take risks, tends to push him away from the improvisor thing. But, as i said, its his language.

In my opinion, the most 'improvised' DS tour was the OES. I Think I Love You Too Much and Fade To Black and the pinacle of 'Dire Straits Improvisation Series'

I always believed that Mark is a great Project Owner too, because i feel that every tour setlist was 90% the same. The vibe was the same and the only musician that plays something different was MK himself and he is not playing really diferent stuff. He is selling a product? Yes. I'm sure he is.

I cannot listen more than 5 bootlegs per tour because i feel that its almost the same thing every show. Maybe if the band was more open to the improvisational thing, at least for me, the thing could be more interesting to hear.

So, 60% Agreed 

 

[Pottel]

Overall you can't say that On The Night is ridiculously bad as there's nothing ridiculous or bad there.

I can and I did! The clothes are fine but MK's hair was ridiculous as well by this stage.

the clothers were NOT fine...phil's shirt....amongst many other things...

[Pottel]

I rarely listen to a bootleg from the OES tour, but when I do it, I go for Dublin kickoff or one CIRCA early 92 with PONO or ITILYTM, but that's all

or any You and your friend recording from later during the tour, or that rare portobello belle,...or tunnel...
but that's about it for me too...

[Eddie Fox]

I don’t see Mark Knopfler doing overdubs for a live recording, I just don’t. And what would be the point in recording a handful of gigs if you still need to overdub stuff. Even back then studios like those Mark resorted to before having BG had the tools to glue together bits and pieces of different concerts without noticeable edits. All that said, I might be completely wrong, of course.

[Rivers Of Rain]

Neil Young's Rust never sleeps was recorded live, but they took off the crowd noise, in order to make it sound like a studio album: https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/rust-never-sleeps-de-neil-young-fete-ses-40-ans-aujourdhui/

At risk of getting side tracked, I was listening to this album recently and crowd noise is audible on the opening and closing tracks, on My My, Hey Hey (Out Of The Blue) I think the crowd can be heard at times during the song and the crowd is definitely audible at the end of Hey Hey, My My (Into The Black). However, this album is definitely worthy of mention for examples of live recordings that were edited for release, because if you compare the versions of Powderfinger and Sedan Delivery on Rust Never Sleeps with the versions on Live Rust you can hear that electric guitar parts have been overdubbed on the former versions.

If memory serves, all the songs on the electric side of Rust Never Sleeps were recorded live, but the acoustic side contains Sail Away, which is definitely a studio recording. It has quite a different sound and feel from the rest of that album, I think it was probably recorded during the Comes A Time sessions - most obviously the song features female backing vocals (from Nicolette Larson if I remember correctly), which were a big feature of that album but don't feature on the other Rust Never Sleeps tracks. I think Pocahontas is also a studio recording but sonically fits in seamlessly with the live acoustic tracks so isn't as noticeable.

(You might be able to tell that I'm a fan of Neil Young's music, and Rust Never Sleeps in particular...)

[Peter1981]

Ah well, the On the Night record got me into Dire Straits so it'll always be a very special record to me. I was about 13 at the time and it totally blew me away. Party because of the fact that it didn't sound really live; everything seemed so perfectly executed, and sounding almost as good as a studio record!
Now being older I also notice the big part of post-production, but on the other hand; the fact that this live record sounded so other-worldly perfect and larger than life probably was part of the charm. Every note on the record is cemented in concrete to me, not one shaky bit anywhere.
I work in music now myself, also mixing, and it is clear there's a lot of polishing up and editing going on. His voice sounds a lot bigger than you would expect from a Shure SM58; wonderin' what's been done with that during mixing. I'd say a whole lot!
I pretty sure the guitar in Your Latest Trick was overdubbed; the licks don't match with the video and to take them from another take (with a different overall feel and probably not the exact tempo) would be a lot more hassle to fit than to play it again, sometime during the mixing-stage. I was always blown away by that thick, clean sound by the way. I only noticed the overdubbing now that you guys mentioned it, but it's pretty clear it is.
Anyway, despite all this; I still get goosebumps from You and your Friend, Brothers in Arms (my favorite version by far, partly because of Paul Franklin!) and On Every Street. And guitar-envy from Calling Elvis; how to come up with that solo, keeping it interesting over just one chord is mindblowing.

[Rolo]

I pretty sure the guitar in Your Latest Trick was overdubbed

Yep! Me too.
And overdubbing live recordings are absolutely normal.

[dustyvalentino]

I pretty sure the guitar in Your Latest Trick was overdubbed

Yep! Me too.
And overdubbing live recordings are absolutely normal.

Maybe it's normal, but it still sucks!

At least we have the bootlegs. A live album that isn't live seems like a pointless exercise to me.

[JF]

Neil Young's Rust never sleeps was recorded live, but they took off the crowd noise, in order to make it sound like a studio album: https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/rust-never-sleeps-de-neil-young-fete-ses-40-ans-aujourdhui/

At risk of getting side tracked, I was listening to this album recently and crowd noise is audible on the opening and closing tracks, on My My, Hey Hey (Out Of The Blue) I think the crowd can be heard at times during the song and the crowd is definitely audible at the end of Hey Hey, My My (Into The Black). However, this album is definitely worthy of mention for examples of live recordings that were edited for release, because if you compare the versions of Powderfinger and Sedan Delivery on Rust Never Sleeps with the versions on Live Rust you can hear that electric guitar parts have been overdubbed on the former versions.

If memory serves, all the songs on the electric side of Rust Never Sleeps were recorded live, but the acoustic side contains Sail Away, which is definitely a studio recording. It has quite a different sound and feel from the rest of that album, I think it was probably recorded during the Comes A Time sessions - most obviously the song features female backing vocals (from Nicolette Larson if I remember correctly), which were a big feature of that album but don't feature on the other Rust Never Sleeps tracks. I think Pocahontas is also a studio recording but sonically fits in seamlessly with the live acoustic tracks so isn't as noticeable.

(You might be able to tell that I'm a fan of Neil Young's music, and Rust Never Sleeps in particular...)

Yes you are right. Of course we can hear the crowd noise here and there, but not as such as we can expect from a live recording.
I mean we can't hear any applause between the songs, that's what I meant by "crowd noises removed"

and indeed you are right about Pocahontas and Sail away. yes it's Nicolette Larson on backing vocals

I am a Neil Young fan too. here are some crhonicles about the loner : https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/neil-young/

[quizzaciously]

Neil Young's Rust never sleeps was recorded live, but they took off the crowd noise, in order to make it sound like a studio album: https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/rust-never-sleeps-de-neil-young-fete-ses-40-ans-aujourdhui/

At risk of getting side tracked, I was listening to this album recently and crowd noise is audible on the opening and closing tracks, on My My, Hey Hey (Out Of The Blue) I think the crowd can be heard at times during the song and the crowd is definitely audible at the end of Hey Hey, My My (Into The Black). However, this album is definitely worthy of mention for examples of live recordings that were edited for release, because if you compare the versions of Powderfinger and Sedan Delivery on Rust Never Sleeps with the versions on Live Rust you can hear that electric guitar parts have been overdubbed on the former versions.

If memory serves, all the songs on the electric side of Rust Never Sleeps were recorded live, but the acoustic side contains Sail Away, which is definitely a studio recording. It has quite a different sound and feel from the rest of that album, I think it was probably recorded during the Comes A Time sessions - most obviously the song features female backing vocals (from Nicolette Larson if I remember correctly), which were a big feature of that album but don't feature on the other Rust Never Sleeps tracks. I think Pocahontas is also a studio recording but sonically fits in seamlessly with the live acoustic tracks so isn't as noticeable.

(You might be able to tell that I'm a fan of Neil Young's music, and Rust Never Sleeps in particular...)

Yes you are right. Of course we can hear the crowd noise here and there, but not as such as we can expect from a live recording.
I mean we can't hear any applause between the songs, that's what I meant by "crowd noises removed"

and indeed you are right about Pocahontas and Sail away. yes it's Nicolette Larson on backing vocals

I am a Neil Young fan too. here are some crhonicles about the loner : https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/neil-young/

At risk of getting side tracked, but JF seem to have an article about any topic that you throw at him Bravo

[dustyvalentino]

JF, what are your thoughts on crop rotation in the 14th century?

[JF]

Neil Young's Rust never sleeps was recorded live, but they took off the crowd noise, in order to make it sound like a studio album: https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/rust-never-sleeps-de-neil-young-fete-ses-40-ans-aujourdhui/

At risk of getting side tracked, I was listening to this album recently and crowd noise is audible on the opening and closing tracks, on My My, Hey Hey (Out Of The Blue) I think the crowd can be heard at times during the song and the crowd is definitely audible at the end of Hey Hey, My My (Into The Black). However, this album is definitely worthy of mention for examples of live recordings that were edited for release, because if you compare the versions of Powderfinger and Sedan Delivery on Rust Never Sleeps with the versions on Live Rust you can hear that electric guitar parts have been overdubbed on the former versions.

If memory serves, all the songs on the electric side of Rust Never Sleeps were recorded live, but the acoustic side contains Sail Away, which is definitely a studio recording. It has quite a different sound and feel from the rest of that album, I think it was probably recorded during the Comes A Time sessions - most obviously the song features female backing vocals (from Nicolette Larson if I remember correctly), which were a big feature of that album but don't feature on the other Rust Never Sleeps tracks. I think Pocahontas is also a studio recording but sonically fits in seamlessly with the live acoustic tracks so isn't as noticeable.

(You might be able to tell that I'm a fan of Neil Young's music, and Rust Never Sleeps in particular...)

Yes you are right. Of course we can hear the crowd noise here and there, but not as such as we can expect from a live recording.
I mean we can't hear any applause between the songs, that's what I meant by "crowd noises removed"

and indeed you are right about Pocahontas and Sail away. yes it's Nicolette Larson on backing vocals

I am a Neil Young fan too. here are some crhonicles about the loner : https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/neil-young/

At risk of getting side tracked, but JF seem to have an article about any topic that you throw at him Bravo

ah ah  Well it's just that most subjects on this forum are talking about good msuic, and well.. I like good music