Red Cross Emergency Appeal for Ukraine

[quizzaciously]

Yes, it was nice to see that Mark is helping, even the Queen herself donated to Ukraine. The whole world is against Russia. My country...

Great to see Mk helping the refugees. Please don’t think this is against Russia. This is against Putin. Lets hope it is stopped immediately for the sake of Ukraine and ultimately all of us.

 

Difficult to believe it's a gangster and a few of his comrades against the majority of the world.

Also can't believe we came so close to a nuclear disaster worse than Chernobyl yesterday.

You can't even imagine how small the pool of people who control Russia. It's like a small family and a couple of friends, and all the decisions come from this little group of people. That means all the ministers, the president(s), anyone with a major role come from this one group. This is how it was for decades in Soviet Union, so it's as far from democracy it could really get, it's the complete opposite of democracy. It's like monarchy, only much worse. The average age of decision makers in Russia is like 70. They're all from USSR, they were born there, it's their country and they want it back.

[Tomcaster]

Not saying Putin’s right but it’s not so black and white, the truth is always in that grey area people tend to avoid cos it’s too complicated. George Soros has been talking about taking over Eastern Europe using NATO for over thirty years now. Nobody wants the enemy living next door. In addition, nobody seemed to care when Ukraine attacked separatists from the Donbass area - most people here probably don’t even know what happened there. All that being said the only reason why Putin had the guts to kick off this madness was because Biden, Macron, Merkel/ Scholz, Trudeau and other leaders are too weak to do what has to be done and he knew it. I know people are not ready to come across words like these but that’s how the real world works and the sooner everyone realizes that the better.

I disagree with you. NATO is not the enemy of Russia. NATO is the enemy of those that want harm to its democratic members. It‘s a defense pact. NATO expansion to the east meant expansion of democracy to the east. Putin does not have the right to dictate to souvereign countries if they are democratic or not. He still does because successful democracies right at his doorstep are a threat to his reign. He attacked Ukraine because he did not want it to be successful.

Being Slavic myself I cannot overstate the pain I am in. Slavic nations are culturally very close to each other but there has always been the divide between authocratically governed Russia and more freedom oriented western Slavic nations. I suffer both for the innocent Ukrainians but also for the regular Russian solders, often boys that couldn‘t even grow a beard yet, and that have to die for the sick visions of this the dictator Putin. The Man‘s Too Strong!!! I wish deeply that soon he will get punished for what he did. And to my Russian friends that are suffering themselves from him: we are with you and I do believe it was a mistake of the west not to integrate you deeper in the 90s, to reach out with a helping hand in 1998. We let you down just like the Weimarer Republic was let down after the 1st world war. I believe Russia needs freedom, it needs a Marshall Plan as well after all this and it needs to join the community of free countries.

Kudos to MK for organizing aid. Doing the same here.

[3Strats]

Not saying Putin’s right but it’s not so black and white, the truth is always in that grey area people tend to avoid cos it’s too complicated. George Soros has been talking about taking over Eastern Europe using NATO for over thirty years now. Nobody wants the enemy living next door. In addition, nobody seemed to care when Ukraine attacked separatists from the Donbass area - most people here probably don’t even know what happened there. All that being said the only reason why Putin had the guts to kick off this madness was because Biden, Macron, Merkel/ Scholz, Trudeau and other leaders are too weak to do what has to be done and he knew it. I know people are not ready to come across words like these but that’s how the real world works and the sooner everyone realizes that the better.

I don't want to get into any sort of political argument, but living in a country where we like to believe we have a free press I can't say that I've ever heard anything about NATO having "expansionist plans" for Eastern Europe or into Russian territory. If the countries between Russia & the rest of Europe wish to  join the E.U. and ask to join NATO, that is a different matter and can only be because they have had concerns about Russia and seek protection against exactly the sort of thing that has happened. Unfortunately Putin sees this as a threat while the rest of us probably see it as a defensive measure by the countries concerned.  The Western European leaders are acting the way they are because they are dealing with a political leadership that is relying on the thinly veiled threat of Nuclear war to get their way and nobody knows how far Putin is actually prepared to go. 

Tomcaster above states very well  the NATO position .

[Eddie Fox]

Not surprised you guys haven’t heard about NATO’s strategies and all that. I’m not getting into politics here… I do it for a living, but not here.

[Tomcaster]

Not surprised you guys haven’t heard about NATO’s strategies and all that. I’m not getting into politics here… I do it for a living, but not here.

With all due respect, smells like conspiration theory to me. Let‘s look at obvious facts: if there was a strong NATO agenda for aggressive expansion, the previous US president would not have wanted to pull back from it. Also, if you look at the NATO expansion in Eastern Europe I honestly don‘t see any harm done to any of these nations and no intention to harm Russia either. Today‘s war only proves the point that NATO is still needed because Putin broke the security warranties issued by his predesessor Yeltsin towards Ukraine in the early 90s (done in exchange for Ukraine handing over the nuclear arsenal). Nobody wants Russia any harm, nations rather join NATO because they fear Russia. It‘s a pity that Putin reinforced these fears so much again and generations will not forget. We should focus our spendings on climate change and not on wars. What a waste of human life, time and resources.

[2manyguitars]

Not surprised you guys haven’t heard about NATO’s strategies and all that. I’m not getting into politics here… I do it for a living, but not here.

With all due respect, smells like conspiration theory to me. Let‘s look at obvious facts: if there was a strong NATO agenda for aggressive expansion, the previous US president would not have wanted to pull back from it. Also, if you look at the NATO expansion in Eastern Europe I honestly don‘t see any harm done to any of these nations and no intention to harm Russia either. Today‘s war only proves the point that NATO is still needed because Putin broke the security warranties issued by his predesessor Yeltsin towards Ukraine in the early 90s (done in exchange for Ukraine handing over the nuclear arsenal). Nobody wants Russia any harm, nations rather join NATO because they fear Russia. It‘s a pity that Putin reinforced these fears so much again and generations will not forget. We should focus our spendings on climate change and not on wars. What a waste of human life, time and resources.

What Putin has instigated is truly disgusting and a tragedy but Eddie does have a valid point. Ask yourselves this. How would the West respond to similar Russian interests popping up on our doorsteps?

In order to bring an end to this we at least need to try and understand the motivations behind it.

[Eddie Fox]

Not surprised you guys haven’t heard about NATO’s strategies and all that. I’m not getting into politics here… I do it for a living, but not here.

With all due respect, smells like conspiration theory to me. Let‘s look at obvious facts: if there was a strong NATO agenda for aggressive expansion, the previous US president would not have wanted to pull back from it. Also, if you look at the NATO expansion in Eastern Europe I honestly don‘t see any harm done to any of these nations and no intention to harm Russia either. Today‘s war only proves the point that NATO is still needed because Putin broke the security warranties issued by his predesessor Yeltsin towards Ukraine in the early 90s (done in exchange for Ukraine handing over the nuclear arsenal). Nobody wants Russia any harm, nations rather join NATO because they fear Russia. It‘s a pity that Putin reinforced these fears so much again and generations will not forget. We should focus our spendings on climate change and not on wars. What a waste of human life, time and resources.

As well as Bilderberg was a conspiracy and today it has a website with meeting schedules. Look, as I said, I do it for a living and this forum is leisure. It’s easy to put your feet up and stay in the dark, I get it. I’m done here in this topic. Mark’s a great man and I’m sure we all agree on that. Peace.

[Robson]

My country knows what war is. Today I cannot imagine being outside NATO.

[Tomcaster]

Not surprised you guys haven’t heard about NATO’s strategies and all that. I’m not getting into politics here… I do it for a living, but not here.

With all due respect, smells like conspiration theory to me. Let‘s look at obvious facts: if there was a strong NATO agenda for aggressive expansion, the previous US president would not have wanted to pull back from it. Also, if you look at the NATO expansion in Eastern Europe I honestly don‘t see any harm done to any of these nations and no intention to harm Russia either. Today‘s war only proves the point that NATO is still needed because Putin broke the security warranties issued by his predesessor Yeltsin towards Ukraine in the early 90s (done in exchange for Ukraine handing over the nuclear arsenal). Nobody wants Russia any harm, nations rather join NATO because they fear Russia. It‘s a pity that Putin reinforced these fears so much again and generations will not forget. We should focus our spendings on climate change and not on wars. What a waste of human life, time and resources.

What Putin has instigated is truly disgusting and a tragedy but Eddie does have a valid point. Ask yourselves this. How would the West respond to similar Russian interests popping up on our doorsteps?

In order to bring an end to this we at least need to try and understand the motivations behind it.

Ask yourself this: would you want your country to be a doorstep? I see you are in UK. Would you want to live in Belarus? How about you ask Pavel here if he thinks that he needs Putins protection from the “bad west”? People were prosecuted, imprisoned, killed for tens of years behind the iron curtain because they fought this involuntary protection granted by a regime

[Tomcaster]

Not surprised you guys haven’t heard about NATO’s strategies and all that. I’m not getting into politics here… I do it for a living, but not here.

With all due respect, smells like conspiration theory to me. Let‘s look at obvious facts: if there was a strong NATO agenda for aggressive expansion, the previous US president would not have wanted to pull back from it. Also, if you look at the NATO expansion in Eastern Europe I honestly don‘t see any harm done to any of these nations and no intention to harm Russia either. Today‘s war only proves the point that NATO is still needed because Putin broke the security warranties issued by his predesessor Yeltsin towards Ukraine in the early 90s (done in exchange for Ukraine handing over the nuclear arsenal). Nobody wants Russia any harm, nations rather join NATO because they fear Russia. It‘s a pity that Putin reinforced these fears so much again and generations will not forget. We should focus our spendings on climate change and not on wars. What a waste of human life, time and resources.

As well as Bilderberg was a conspiracy and today it has a website with meeting schedules. Look, as I said, I do it for a living and this forum is leisure. It’s easy to put your feet up and stay in the dark, I get it. I’m done here in this topic. Mark’s a great man and I’m sure we all agree on that. Peace.

Yeah right and the Corona virus is a conspiracy as well, right? Again: if you have concrete facts to share, please do. If not, let us agree to call completely unjustified war crimes as such.

[Tomcaster]

No actually I think this is a very valuable discussion because there are people reading us that might not know what to think of all of this and it is important to share and challenge views based on facts. The less intransparency, the better. Also, particularly on a MK forum, respect is key. I always imagine the man himself reading out stuff ;-)

[2manyguitars]

Not surprised you guys haven’t heard about NATO’s strategies and all that. I’m not getting into politics here… I do it for a living, but not here.

With all due respect, smells like conspiration theory to me. Let‘s look at obvious facts: if there was a strong NATO agenda for aggressive expansion, the previous US president would not have wanted to pull back from it. Also, if you look at the NATO expansion in Eastern Europe I honestly don‘t see any harm done to any of these nations and no intention to harm Russia either. Today‘s war only proves the point that NATO is still needed because Putin broke the security warranties issued by his predesessor Yeltsin towards Ukraine in the early 90s (done in exchange for Ukraine handing over the nuclear arsenal). Nobody wants Russia any harm, nations rather join NATO because they fear Russia. It‘s a pity that Putin reinforced these fears so much again and generations will not forget. We should focus our spendings on climate change and not on wars. What a waste of human life, time and resources.

As well as Bilderberg was a conspiracy and today it has a website with meeting schedules. Look, as I said, I do it for a living and this forum is leisure. It’s easy to put your feet up and stay in the dark, I get it. I’m done here in this topic. Mark’s a great man and I’m sure we all agree on that. Peace.

Yeah right and the Corona virus is a conspiracy as well, right? Again: if you have concrete facts to share, please do. If not, let us agree to call completely unjustified war crimes as such.

I think you misunderstood me. No one wants or deserves to be a pawn, but unfortunately this is what international politics is. Ukraine is another round, another offensive in a never-ending chess match between 2 rival, incompatible political ideologies. 

War is a terrible thing whoever is the aggressor, ask the 500000 people who died in Iraq or the  millions of refugees that  illegitimate war created.

[Tomcaster]

Try to explain that to the father of the 18 month old child killed today when Putins army broke cease fire and attacked people trying to get out of a besieged city (Kharkiv)

[ustas]

After 1991, the new Russia has learned a lot from Western countries. The lessons of the bombing of Yugoslavia, the destruction of Iraq, the invasion of Libya and Afghanistan are well studied. Now Russia is using all possible methods of the Western world. Are you surprised?

About Ukraine. Many of you do not know at all what has been happening in Ukraine in general and in the Donbas region in particular since 2014. The "free press" does not report this. Because this is a very uncomfortable truth for the Western world. It's double standards and hypocrisy.

Ukraine is a de facto member of NATO. Over the past few years, NATO countries have supplied hundreds of NATO military instructors and tons of lethal weapons. The Ukrainian army has been completely modernized according to the NATO standards. Before 24 February it was srongest army in Europe.

You did not even have time to understand that the war between Russia and NATO has already begun. Without the direct participation of the NATO countries themselves, using Ukraine as a proxy. The events in Ukraine are the hot phase of this war.

And even this is not the most important thing. This is a tragic stage in the beginning of the global reset of the old world order. All this will lead to great upheavals and casualties throughout the world, including in Russia itself.

[2manyguitars]

Try to explain that to the father of the 18 month old child killed today when Putins army broke cease fire and attacked people trying to get out of a besieged city (Kharkiv)

What is your point Tomcaster? No one here is denying the awful realities happening in Ukraine. Do you not think that an understanding of the antecedents of this current aggression is important? That's really all I was saying.....