Pick Withers.

[Love Expresso]

However,
Danny Cummings seems to be the best-looking one!

What about Chris Whitten? I must admit that I really loved his drumming during the first (indoor-) leg of the OES tour. His drumming on "Sultans" f.e. at
Zurich 1991 was really great, but the whole version is really awesome. Later on, when the tour got into the big open air venues, it seems he got too much routine...

I think the music of Dire Straits would have taken a totally other direction if Pick would not have left the band. But Mark never showed very much interest in drummers at all, didn

[boboDS]

Chris Whitten was alright (well Terry Williams is just one   ), but I really hated the sound of his snare. Such an empty sound, it kinda "distorted" the feeling of his drumming.

[Jon]

It may have been the promoter or agent who made a big thing of the Dire Straits connection and in these days where people have reduced disposable income and less inclination to attend live music events, any method of getting 'bums on seats' has to be employed.

The thing is, most musicians (or indeed any kind of 'artist') like talking about what they're doing right now, as that's what's immediate and important to them.  With Pick Withers having departed DS over 25 years ago, it's like talking about what you played in the school band.  If he was truly being an arse, I don't think he'd even have come out to sign your DS albums.  He may have been happier talking about some DS stuff if it came on the back of some conversation about what he's doing now (of course I don't know that you didn't do this BBB, just being devil's advocate).

I remember reading an interview with MK around the time of Making Movies, where he said that he had been specifying every single drum beat.  I know some drummers - especially those with a jazz inclination like PW - who would find that enough reason to seek out new opportunities.

In my opinion, the statement "It takes a really good drummer to be better than no drummer at all." is actually all about how important it is to have a really good drummer. 

[Best Brown Baggies]

Jon said.........


"The thing is, most musicians (or indeed any kind of 'artist') like talking about what they're doing right now, as that's what's immediate and important to them.  With Pick Withers having departed DS over 25 years ago, it's like talking about what you played in the school band.  If he was truly being an arse, I don't think he'd even have come out to sign your DS albums.  He may have been happier talking about some DS stuff if it came on the back of some conversation about what he's doing now (of course I don't know that you didn't do this BBB, just being devil's advocate)."

I must admit, i did rather go in with my Dire Straits blinkers on, not even thinking to ask him about what he's doing now. So perhaps i deserved what i got.

Cheers    BBB

[dustyvalentino]

Screw that BBB, he's hardly done much else of note since leaving DS, has he?

Most people would be grateful to have been in a big succesful group, toured the world to millions of fans, played with Bob Dylan etc.

I'd give my right bollock for that kind of chance, and I'd be proud to speak about it for the rest of my life.

Pick needs to get a fucking grip.

But he's STILL the best drummer to ever work with MK by a long way... except maybe the legendary Phil Collins.

[Jon]

BBB, I certainly wasn't implying that you did anything that warranted an abrupt response - I hope you don't think I was.

dustyvalentino, I think your comments raise an interesting question about expectations of followers and also how differently we might view an experience from the outside.  Like you, I feel that I would wax lyrical forever had I toured with a band like Dire Straits.  I haven't actually had the experience though, but it seems that most musicians who have moved on to pastures new aren't so keen to dwell on the past.  Do we have a right to expect them to want to talk about something that they were disatisfied enough to leave decades ago?  I'm not certain that we do, although I would concede that someone famous should not be surprised to be asked about the time when they were famous.  I suppose it's how you field those questions - especially if you'd rather leave that all in the past - that makes the difference. 

You may not think that Pick Withers has done much of note since leaving Dire Straits, but he may feel rather differently about that.   

[dustyvalentino]

Do we have a right to expect them to want to talk about something that they were disatisfied enough to leave decades ago?  I'm not certain that we do, although I would concede that someone famous should not be surprised to be asked about the time when they were famous.  I suppose it's how you field those questions - especially if you'd rather leave that all in the past - that makes the difference. 

You may not think that Pick Withers has done much of note since leaving Dire Straits, but he may feel rather differently about that.   

I don't think we DO have a right, but I think the way in which it is handled could be better. I'm sure MK gets questions he doesn't want to answer all the time (even about DS!) but he's always diplomatic and never makes the questioner flle uncomfortable or that they shouldn't have asked. If he didn't want to speak about he could have said something like "Blimey, Dire Straits, that was a long time ago. I'm much happier with the stuff I've been doing recently like..." I mean, lets get things in perspective here - it's not like he's Georg Harrison or Michael Jackson who literally couldn't walk down the street for their entire adult lives without being harassed. Once in a blue moon somebody asks him for an autograph.

So what has Pick done since DS? I'm not aware of much. Which is a damn shame. I think Pick made that first Ds album almost as much as MK's songs and guitar. Really inventive work. Though I have to be honest and say that his work on MM and LOG wasn't quite as effective, but I guess by this time MK was telling him what to play. 

[Jules]

Pick left DS probably by the same reason David did...

And that reason is Mark Knopfler. when you are a musician that not only plays what the leader wants but also have creativity and you want to add to the music, it burn you for sure. David left the band because he wrote songs too, but in DS it

[dustyvalentino]

And Guy started out as a "professional musician" of course, Roxy Music and the like. He has done some other non-MK session stuff I think, Jimmy Nail and Bryan Adams for example.

Seems to me that MK was very "driven" during the DS days, he knew what he wanted, and he got it. He had phenomenal success of course, so in a sense you could say he was right. Look at the BiA album - very harsh to bring in Omar Hakim, basically said that Terry wasn't good enough, but it ended up being one of the biggest selling albums ever, so maybe MK was right.

I can't see MK doing something like that these days.

[boboDS]

Look at the BiA album - very harsh to bring in Omar Hakim, basically said that Terry wasn't good enough, but it ended up being one of the biggest selling albums ever, so maybe MK was right.

Maybe MK got this impression that Terry wasn't good in the studio, and maybe he wasn't good for the kind of music MK wanted to record. I remember reading an interview where MK says that he was "stuffed" with snare drums, and wanted to try something different. That maybe wasn't Terry style.

BIA ended up being one of the biggest selling albums ever, but I don't think that it was because of Omar Hakim at all. It was because of MFN riff (also with the drum-intro), BIA song, a this catchy WoL keyboard riff, and partly massive CD spreading.

I still think that songs from BIA sounded 10000times better live than on the album (it actually applies for all the albums). For me is Ride across with snare drums much much better, so is BIA (Mandela!), so is the chorus of The man's too strong for example.

[dustyvalentino]

Terry just wasn't up to it, a good rock and roll drummer for sure and therfore great for the "thump thump" you need for live work, but not exactly subtle. Technically, and in terms of inventiveness, Terry just wasn't in the same league, not even close. No way Terry would have come up with that great drum part on Water of Love or the cool hihat work on Sultans.

That said, I do think Terry is a great drummer, just not as good as Pick.

The studio original of this one is probably my fave playing from Terry:

 

And the original of this one:

 

[localhero1986]

Danny also played on Bryan Adams MTV unplugged album, just read it by coincidence. The best drummer I've heard during live performances is Geoff Dugmore. He played with DK last year and Heather Nova on Pinkpop classic. Fantastic drummer!

PW plays "ok" imo on the DS albums, but the sound quality of the very first albums is by far not as good as today's so it's hard to "compare" (which, of course, does not mean that I can do it better).

[dustyvalentino]

Best drummer I've seen live would most likely be the legendary Steve Gadd, with Paul Simon.

But then of course I've never seen Phil Collins live, sadly.

[boboDS]

Terry just wasn't up to it, a good rock and roll drummer for sure and therfore great for the "thump thump" you need for live work, but not exactly subtle. Technically, and in terms of inventiveness, Terry just wasn't in the same league, not even close. No way Terry would have come up with that great drum part on Water of Love or the cool hihat work on Sultans.

That said, I do think Terry is a great drummer, just not as good as Pick.

The studio original of this one is probably my fave playing from Terry:

 

And the original of this one:

 

Hehe dusty, we're gonna be at this forever. Here I go then.

Can you exactly say what is inventiveness? I mean, how can you say that e.g. hihat work is inventiveness (or anything else for that matter, of course not some scientific discovery), and that e.g. the MFN drum intro isn't? One does something in a certain way, other one does it in a different way.  Different things are natural for different people.

For me, very inventive is e.g. OUATITW, or ToL, or SoS to just name a few. Inventive when compared to Pick's playing.

That's true that Water oL is great, but I don't like that kinda a style much.
As for the Sultans, the hihat is great too, but:

Listen to 1981 versions, outro. Pick sounds to me that he doesn't know what to do there, double rhythm and such stuff, when MK is playing all these fast licks, it doesn't add up to overall energetic feeling.  It just isn't very convincing (the same goes for OUATITW). For the original versions, he was very good there, but when DS were moving into more rock&roll music, he just wasn't the man to do it. Also listen to Terry's swinging right hand..., and the drum rolls in chorus (you probably don't like that, I know :-) ). I think he took DS onto another level when MK wanted to play more rock&roll.

But, on the other hand, Pick was GREAT on the LoG album, I don't know why but it just sounds fantastic. It never rains album version is better than the live version, imho.

[Jon]

Dusty wrote: But then of course I've never seen Phil Collins live, sadly.


I have - several times (with Genesis).  He was pretty good too!  

PW played some great drums on the early albums, although there is a lot of subtlety in what he did compared to the more 'in your face' approach that was to follow when he departed.  A particular favourite of mine is Single Handed Sailor (which I think has a bit of a Steve Gadd style drum part, funnily enough).  It's not that complicated, but the groove is just perfect.

There is an interesting article about BiA (and the choice of drummers) here:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may06/articles/classictracks_0506.htm