Is this the best band he's ever had?

[superval99]

I do think this is one of the best bands, but it could be much better if the brass section, particularly trumpet was used more sparingly, especially on Piper to the End.   My favourite versions of Piper and STP were with Matt Rollings on keys, but I do understand why Jim Cox was brought back - he does well in the more rocky songs particularly, but there was a special rapport between MK and Matt in STP, it was like a conversation and I miss that with Jim.

I like Ianto on the drums, but I really loved Danny's drumming, especially Speedway.

I am one of those who disliked Mike Henderson - he completely ruined the STP concert I attended.   He just drowned MK!

[ijnijn]

I did a personal drum review of a new album some time ago, criticizing Ianto much. With the skill he has, I was hoping to hear some great drumming live, but actually it's the opposite. To be honest and as a drummer I'm again very disappointed, most of the songs are vastly, vastly simplified and in my opinion the concerts are killed because of the drums... Some of you told me that time, it's the Mark telling him to play this or that but let's be serious, if you're proffesional even the basic stuff can be played in a tasty way. Danny was far, far better, I really miss him.

[hunter]

I'm curioius how Pick Withers would have done playing Mark's solo material. Not sure he has the power to pull off Speedway for instance, but I think he would have been fabulous on some of the mellower stuff. What a shame that the relationship between Mark and him soured.

[hunter]

Regarding Danny, for those of you have been to the shows, how does his percussion work feel and sound in the band? During the OES tour it was very present, going by recordings only. Is it still that way? Obviously on songs such as Paraguay and Holes, his playing very much felt, but how about on other songs? Lovely to see the man on stage with Mark again, though.

[wakeywakey]

>What a shame that the relationship between Mark and him soured.

Why was that?
It seems that MK ruined many relationships in his quest for "perfection."
It is impossible to say this is the best band he has played with because he is now only 2/3rds of what he was(maybe less) and the musicians aren't challenged as much as they used to be.
As for the "best" how about:
Roy B on keys,EC on second guitar,Omar on drums,Mel on sax and JI on bass.For added fun include Hal on third guitar,AC on additional keys with Ruth on bvs.

[hunter]

>What a shame that the relationship between Mark and him soured.

Why was that?
It seems that MK ruined many relationships in his quest for "perfection."

According to Wiki:

Quote: Withers left the band in the summer of 1982, soon after completing the Love Over Gold sessions, to spend more time with his family and to pursue jazz music. He reportedly told an interviewer that he had succumbed to a growing feeling that there was nothing left in the music for him and that he was in danger of "becoming a rock drummer." Unquote.

I think he just had a different vision than Mark and that the long tours took their toll. About the time of the Hall of Fame induction, I was in touch with someone who knows him, and apparently he and Mark haven't spoken to each other since they parted ways 30 odd years ago. I'm not saying Mark is to blame or anything, but it's weird. And sad.

[wakeywakey]

>What a shame that the relationship between Mark and him soured.

Why was that?
It seems that MK ruined many relationships in his quest for "perfection."

According to Wiki:

Quote: Withers left the band in the summer of 1982, soon after completing the Love Over Gold sessions, to spend more time with his family and to pursue jazz music. He reportedly told an interviewer that he had succumbed to a growing feeling that there was nothing left in the music for him and that he was in danger of "becoming a rock drummer." Unquote.

I think he just had a different vision than Mark and that the long tours took their toll. About the time of the Hall of Fame induction, I was in touch with someone who knows him, and apparently he and Mark haven't spoken to each other since they parted ways 30 odd years ago. I'm not saying Mark is to blame or anything, but it's weird. And sad.

Yes it is very sad but he has treated most of the guys from DS days very poorly.
He's an old man but still behaves like a petulant teenager at times.I'm not saying it is solely his fault but to blank your brother for over half your life is pathetic.
It is just as well that so many of us aren't musical geniuses!

[NicoMK]

He's an old man but still behaves like a petulant teenager at times.I'm not saying it is solely his fault but to blank your brother for over half your life is pathetic.

Well, this very point belongs to his personal life. It's always sad when parents and children or brothers etc. don't talk to each others but we don't know what really happened between Mark and David, we will never know and obviously it has to remain between them.

As for musical matters, everyone including me loves to debate. I too think that Mark may have ruined some of his musical relationships but none of us knows what really goes behind the curtains so once again everything is just talks and suppositions.

Danny is back in the band on this record and tour. I miss him on the drums and will always but still, I'm happy to see him again. He's the only one in Mark's musical journey that has left the band to return later.

[dvschend]

His best band was on 8th, 9th and 11th of june 1988 

[herlock]

Extraordinary band, more an orchestra than a band actually.

I agree that Ianto sounds a bit dull, I preferred Danny. Pick or Terry would be awesome.
Anyway the connection between Ianto and Danny on stage is great to watch, in RAH #1 I almost thought they were going to kiss - does Danny want to show that he has  no resentment against Ianto ?
I absolutely love Richard - his way to make a powerchord in Speedway as if he was gently touching a flower is legendary !
Glenn is a bit dull, would prefer John, yes.
Jim and  guy are excellent, don't understand what Matt was kicked out though, he was great
The brassies are excellent, I don't think they knew each other before, but their connection on stage is great. They give great power to the songs, I love the trumpet on  WAM and even on Speedway (yes dmg ! I feel it gives power rather than taking over Mark's licks). Not sure about Piper, didn't get a chance to hear it live with trumpet yet, it seems controversial, I don't know.
The folkies are excellent as usual, and not overused like in previous tours, so everything is good.

I do not miss Paul Franklin, he is a great pedal steel virtuoso of course, but I feel he was really overused in the OES tour (TR with pedal steel ! horrible !). I think when a pedal steel is needed (like the OES song), Richard is doing a fine job with it.

All in all, yes maybe the greatest band ever, definitely better than 2011-2015 I think.

[herlock]

He's the only one in Mark's musical journey that has left the band to return later.

No ! Jim has left in 2005 (problems to handle flights I think) and returned in 2011
John Ilsley and Chris White came back in 2002, albeit briefly
Even Alan Clark returned in 1993 for the NHB Swan Hunter concert, Guy was not available.

[NicoMK]

No ! Jim has left in 2005 (problems to handle flights I think) and returned in 2011
John Ilsley and Chris White came back in 2002, albeit briefly
Even Alan Clark returned in 1993 for the NHB Swan Hunter concert, Guy was not available.

Yes and no. Jim has never been kicked out of the band. He could not travel at some point. When he got better, Mark called him back (and Matt was out). Same for John Illsley, he was part of Dire Straits and for some reason, Mark wanted to go solo after 1992. Or maybe John didn't want to continue recording and touring, who knows?

As for Clark and White, yes they came back but that was before things went bad between them and Mark, I suppose.

Not quite the same story then.

Maybe nothing wrong between Mark and Danny but he was asked to leave as Mark wanted Ian Thomas, then he returned in 2019 for what could be Mark's last big one. Danny, a man in every corner 

[dmg]

Regarding Danny, for those of you have been to the shows, how does his percussion work feel and sound in the band? During the OES tour it was very present, going by recordings only. Is it still that way? Obviously on songs such as Paraguay and Holes, his playing very much felt, but how about on other songs? Lovely to see the man on stage with Mark again, though.

His percussion is superb and adds an extra dimension to the songs.  He plays all sorts of shakers, bongoes and twinkly things that just make the songs sound so richly endowed.  He works well with Ianto on some songs too such as MFN and yet on something like MM he can can be quietly effective too.  Love him on percussion.

[ds1984]

They certainly do the show on MFN but hey a really really great drummer would just do it by himself...

[dmg]

Extraordinary band, more an orchestra than a band actually.

I agree that Ianto sounds a bit dull, I preferred Danny. Pick or Terry would be awesome.
Anyway the connection between Ianto and Danny on stage is great to watch, in RAH #1 I almost thought they were going to kiss - does Danny want to show that he has  no resentment against Ianto ?
I absolutely love Richard - his way to make a powerchord in Speedway as if he was gently touching a flower is legendary !
Glenn is a bit dull, would prefer John, yes.
Jim and  guy are excellent, don't understand what Matt was kicked out though, he was great
The brassies are excellent, I don't think they knew each other before, but their connection on stage is great. They give great power to the songs, I love the trumpet on  WAM and even on Speedway (yes dmg ! I feel it gives power rather than taking over Mark's licks). Not sure about Piper, didn't get a chance to hear it live with trumpet yet, it seems controversial, I don't know.
The folkies are excellent as usual, and not overused like in previous tours, so everything is good.

I do not miss Paul Franklin, he is a great pedal steel virtuoso of course, but I feel he was really overused in the OES tour (TR with pedal steel ! horrible !). I think when a pedal steel is needed (like the OES song), Richard is doing a fine job with it.

All in all, yes maybe the greatest band ever, definitely better than 2011-2015 I think.

I think the brassies were more present in Speedway and higher in the mix during the early shows because Mark wasn't quite sure of his playing being up to scratch.  Now it is, they have been toned down and it sounds fine.

Paul Franklin is exceptional but can only be used for a select number of songs I agree.  It would still be great to hear OES with him rather than sax and also Y&YF, WICTY, PONO etc.