#07 DTRW TOUR - May 05 2019 - Navarra Arena, Pamplona, Spain #SPOILER#

[dvschend]

Someone on Guy's forum says the running of the bulls was prohibited yesterday. Wonder what that's all about and if it's permanent.

Running of the bulls in Pamplona. I wonder why it was prohibited  . It's usually not 

[Silvertown]

Someone on Guy's forum says the running of the bulls was prohibited yesterday. Wonder what that's all about and if it's permanent.

Running of the bulls in Pamplona. I wonder why it was prohibited  . It's usually not 

Someone from the band had a red shirt?

[dvschend]

I also think I wouldn't have a problem with TR being dropped if he didn't play it at all from the beginning of this tour.

[superval99]

Someone on Guy's forum says the running of the bulls was prohibited yesterday. Wonder what that's all about and if it's permanent.

Running of the bulls in Pamplona. I wonder why it was prohibited  . It's usually not 

From Guy's forum:

Q:   Hi doc, Yesterday in Pamplona’ was banned the running of the bulls. Security guys said it was Mark’s decision. Is that true? Thanks

Guy:  NO. That’s complete nonsense. We love you guys coming down the front and security are briefed on this at every show. I’m sorry they got it wrong.

[dvschend]

Someone on Guy's forum says the running of the bulls was prohibited yesterday. Wonder what that's all about and if it's permanent.

Running of the bulls in Pamplona. I wonder why it was prohibited  . It's usually not 

From Guy's forum:

Q:   Hi doc, Yesterday in Pamplona’ was banned the running of the bulls. Security guys said it was Mark’s decision. Is that true? Thanks

Guy:  NO. That’s complete nonsense. We love you guys coming down the front and security are briefed on this at every show. I’m sorry they got it wrong.

You didn't get the Pamplona reference now did you 

[superval99]

Someone on Guy's forum says the running of the bulls was prohibited yesterday. Wonder what that's all about and if it's permanent.

Running of the bulls in Pamplona. I wonder why it was prohibited  . It's usually not 

From Guy's forum:

Q:   Hi doc, Yesterday in Pamplona’ was banned the running of the bulls. Security guys said it was Mark’s decision. Is that true? Thanks

Guy:  NO. That’s complete nonsense. We love you guys coming down the front and security are briefed on this at every show. I’m sorry they got it wrong.

You didn't get the Pamplona reference now did you 

LOL!   Of course I did!       

[dmg]

There may be no formula for writing songs like Mark, but if you want to do tours like Mark, do the following:

1. You and me Richard, Good Luck
2. Pick songs with long outros to let the musicians jam along some sort of vamp for as long as possible
3. Pick songs you already rehearsed for previous tours, but which got rejected for some reason
4. From the new album take songs which literally nobody expects to hear live and
5. Take the most unexpected song from #4 and make it an opener
6. Pick songs based on difficulty level, despite the fact that you have Richard the Good Luck who can play anything including solos and already did that with songs like 5:15 a.m. and the first part of Telegraph Road
7. Have a dedicated percussion player in the band, but give the cowbell to flutist
8. Play half of the show while sitting, despite the fact that in 2010 you played the whole show while sitting and nobody has complained

Bonus tracks:

1. Throw away a 15-minutes song that a lot of people wants to hear and replace it with nothing
2. Change the opener from date to date for no apparent reason

You don't like his touring decisions, I get it, that's fine. So don't pay for it then, don't go.

It is what it is, I just don't get all the griping. Do you think mark is going to come on here and suddenly have an epiphany because of your critique? Hardly likely.

I think you only criticise when you care, perhaps too much.  I know I do.  I don't want to see Mark go around the world performing shows that don't showcase how he can play.  I don't want this to be the legacy he leaves.  If he cannot perform a "proper" show I would have rather he had taken on a few shows on a UK tour or perhaps not toured at all - there's no shame in that.  I've forgiven him so many things, so many songs being dropped or stripped down but now there's nothing left to the shows.

It's not just a case of don't go when you've been listening since you were at primary school, collecting every available bootleg, going to umpteen shows since DS days - it's been a huge part of my life.  Just don't go?  This is what I don't think Mark gets.  There is no option for me (and many others) about whether I'm going or not and yet he just doesn't care.

I stand by my comment that fans are being short changed if some are getting longer shows than others and hearing TR while others aren't, while others will be subject to airport curfews and whatever that will bring to their show.  Whether that is down to bad planning and PCM or not is really irrelevant because it's been happening tour after tour and Mark doesn't mind.

@Quizzy: Love that list!

[vr46mk]

There may be no formula for writing songs like Mark, but if you want to do tours like Mark, do the following:

1. You and me Richard, Good Luck
2. Pick songs with long outros to let the musicians jam along some sort of vamp for as long as possible
3. Pick songs you already rehearsed for previous tours, but which got rejected for some reason
4. From the new album take songs which literally nobody expects to hear live and
5. Take the most unexpected song from #4 and make it an opener
6. Pick songs based on difficulty level, despite the fact that you have Richard the Good Luck who can play anything including solos and already did that with songs like 5:15 a.m. and the first part of Telegraph Road
7. Have a dedicated percussion player in the band, but give the cowbell to flutist
8. Play half of the show while sitting, despite the fact that in 2010 you played the whole show while sitting and nobody has complained

Bonus tracks:

1. Throw away a 15-minutes song that a lot of people wants to hear and replace it with nothing
2. Change the opener from date to date for no apparent reason

You don't like his touring decisions, I get it, that's fine. So don't pay for it then, don't go.

It is what it is, I just don't get all the griping. Do you think mark is going to come on here and suddenly have an epiphany because of your critique? Hardly likely.

I think you only criticise when you care, perhaps too much.  I know I do.  I don't want to see Mark go around the world performing shows that don't showcase how he can play.  I don't want this to be the legacy he leaves.  If he cannot perform a "proper" show I would have rather he had taken on a few shows on a UK tour or perhaps not toured at all - there's no shame in that.  I've forgiven him so many things, so many songs being dropped or stripped down but now there's nothing left to the shows.

It's not just a case of don't go when you've been listening since you were at primary school, collecting every available bootleg, going to umpteen shows since DS days - it's been a huge part of my life.  Just don't go?  This is what I don't think Mark gets.  There is no option for me (and many others) about whether I'm going or not and yet he just doesn't care.

I stand by my comment that fans are being short changed if some are getting longer shows than others and hearing TR while others aren't, while others will be subject to airport curfews and whatever that will bring to their show.  Whether that is down to bad planning and PCM or not is really irrelevant because it's been happening tour after tour and Mark doesn't mind.

@Quizzy: Love that list!

I agree. At least be fair to all fans on all different venues, have an average setlist of 16? And not 14 like some had last tour... Do they remember FAIR Admission? They should start Fair Setlist Admission   

[2manyguitars]

There may be no formula for writing songs like Mark, but if you want to do tours like Mark, do the following:

1. You and me Richard, Good Luck
2. Pick songs with long outros to let the musicians jam along some sort of vamp for as long as possible
3. Pick songs you already rehearsed for previous tours, but which got rejected for some reason
4. From the new album take songs which literally nobody expects to hear live and
5. Take the most unexpected song from #4 and make it an opener
6. Pick songs based on difficulty level, despite the fact that you have Richard the Good Luck who can play anything including solos and already did that with songs like 5:15 a.m. and the first part of Telegraph Road
7. Have a dedicated percussion player in the band, but give the cowbell to flutist
8. Play half of the show while sitting, despite the fact that in 2010 you played the whole show while sitting and nobody has complained

Bonus tracks:

1. Throw away a 15-minutes song that a lot of people wants to hear and replace it with nothing
2. Change the opener from date to date for no apparent reason

You don't like his touring decisions, I get it, that's fine. So don't pay for it then, don't go.

It is what it is, I just don't get all the griping. Do you think mark is going to come on here and suddenly have an epiphany because of your critique? Hardly likely.

I think you only criticise when you care, perhaps too much.  I know I do.  I don't want to see Mark go around the world performing shows that don't showcase how he can play.  I don't want this to be the legacy he leaves.  If he cannot perform a "proper" show I would have rather he had taken on a few shows on a UK tour or perhaps not toured at all - there's no shame in that.  I've forgiven him so many things, so many songs being dropped or stripped down but now there's nothing left to the shows.

It's not just a case of don't go when you've been listening since you were at primary school, collecting every available bootleg, going to umpteen shows since DS days - it's been a huge part of my life.  Just don't go?  This is what I don't think Mark gets.  There is no option for me (and many others) about whether I'm going or not and yet he just doesn't care.

I stand by my comment that fans are being short changed if some are getting longer shows than others and hearing TR while others aren't, while others will be subject to airport curfews and whatever that will bring to their show.  Whether that is down to bad planning and PCM or not is really irrelevant because it's been happening tour after tour and Mark doesn't mind.

@Quizzy: Love that list!

I agree. At least be fair to all fans on all different venues, have an average setlist of 16? And not 14 like some had last tour... Do they remember FAIR Admission? They should start Fair Setlist Admission   

Sorry but I really think you're missing the point.

Here we are again, stood behind the maestro, telling him what to paint, how to paint it, what colour to use, and how long to paint for. You may as well go watch DSL!

The false sense of entitlement shown on here is at best unfortunate as the artist owes the fan nothing in terms of creative process.

[vr46mk]

There may be no formula for writing songs like Mark, but if you want to do tours like Mark, do the following:

1. You and me Richard, Good Luck
2. Pick songs with long outros to let the musicians jam along some sort of vamp for as long as possible
3. Pick songs you already rehearsed for previous tours, but which got rejected for some reason
4. From the new album take songs which literally nobody expects to hear live and
5. Take the most unexpected song from #4 and make it an opener
6. Pick songs based on difficulty level, despite the fact that you have Richard the Good Luck who can play anything including solos and already did that with songs like 5:15 a.m. and the first part of Telegraph Road
7. Have a dedicated percussion player in the band, but give the cowbell to flutist
8. Play half of the show while sitting, despite the fact that in 2010 you played the whole show while sitting and nobody has complained

Bonus tracks:

1. Throw away a 15-minutes song that a lot of people wants to hear and replace it with nothing
2. Change the opener from date to date for no apparent reason

You don't like his touring decisions, I get it, that's fine. So don't pay for it then, don't go.

It is what it is, I just don't get all the griping. Do you think mark is going to come on here and suddenly have an epiphany because of your critique? Hardly likely.

I think you only criticise when you care, perhaps too much.  I know I do.  I don't want to see Mark go around the world performing shows that don't showcase how he can play.  I don't want this to be the legacy he leaves.  If he cannot perform a "proper" show I would have rather he had taken on a few shows on a UK tour or perhaps not toured at all - there's no shame in that.  I've forgiven him so many things, so many songs being dropped or stripped down but now there's nothing left to the shows.

It's not just a case of don't go when you've been listening since you were at primary school, collecting every available bootleg, going to umpteen shows since DS days - it's been a huge part of my life.  Just don't go?  This is what I don't think Mark gets.  There is no option for me (and many others) about whether I'm going or not and yet he just doesn't care.

I stand by my comment that fans are being short changed if some are getting longer shows than others and hearing TR while others aren't, while others will be subject to airport curfews and whatever that will bring to their show.  Whether that is down to bad planning and PCM or not is really irrelevant because it's been happening tour after tour and Mark doesn't mind.

@Quizzy: Love that list!

I agree. At least be fair to all fans on all different venues, have an average setlist of 16? And not 14 like some had last tour... Do they remember FAIR Admission? They should start Fair Setlist Admission   

Sorry but I really think you're missing the point.

Here we are again, stood behind the maestro, telling him what to paint, how to paint it, what colour to use, and how long to paint for. You may as well go watch DSL!

The false sense of entitlement shown on here is at best unfortunate as the artist owes the fan nothing in terms of creative process.

Ok, but at least agree on that having one concert with 18 songs and another with 14 make some fans think it's unfair...

Doesn't matter anyway how much we whine in here, we will have to wait and see what we get from MK lottery 

[PensaGhost]

Criticism is caring, personally I don't care about praise. If something's good everybody know it's good, it's like reviewing a movie Schindler's List, it's like what to review there? It's one of the best movies in the world. With music, though, it's hard to judge, but I've never seen setlist problem being such a problem, with the exception maybe for Bob Dylan, and Mark's been transforming into Bob slowly, but surely lately.

Its not the criticism of any of the actual content that bothers me quizzaciously. Its the attributing of various motives to those decisions as if MK and co are sat seeking to piss us all off and are doing so deliberately when its quite obvious that they are putting their hearts minds and souls into this tour. Its fine to say 'I don't like this, this is not for me'. Its quite another thing to lay accusations of laziness, short changing the fans, etc....

Every tour I always say there's no smoke without fire. Every tour generates lots of harsh words and disappointment, but it's not supposed to. Guy Fletcher isn't supposed to warn people from asking setlist questions as if it's a violation of law, but the sheer amount of unsatisfied people always baffles me.

Human beings in their right minds are always seeking for advantages, benefits and easy routs. Mark isn't going on tour to lose money and health, he's going on tour to make money and stay healthy, nothing wrong with that. The problem is when his abilities and fans desires can't meet. As I said, the demand for Mark's songs is so huge and he delivers so little, so naturally there's tribute bands and "hate" everywhere. It's woe from wit, and it happens because of our love towards MK, not against it. I'd say, after this 85-shows stadium tour Mark will shake his setlist like crazy and everybody will be happy at last on more intimate shows, like Mark himself always wanted it to be. Playing pubs and theatres, huh?

Call it short changing the fans, laziness, but cutting not the longest shows in the world and rushing the shows because of an airport issue before the day-off is not the best behavior either. I once was on a classical guitar recital with one 60-years-old man playing Bach for 4 hours and with 4 intermissions. And I can tell you playing Bach on guitar for an audience of 2.5 thousand people is not playing pentatonic scales on a signature Gibson Les Paul and singing songs while on a luxury trip with your private jet and an orchestra.

I'm sorry but we're just not on the same page on this. So many of those criticisms are suppositions based on what can be seen and inferred from outside the bubble.  None of us knows the real reasons, the real stresses that exist behind the scenes and I state categorically that until proven otherwise MK deserves to have his artistic choices respected. Do you honestly think at 69, with millions in the bank that he's on tour for money? Odds are in fact that the tour overall may run at a loss....

As for shortening of the shows can we hold mk personally responsible for the judgement of management, promotors, local venues etc?

Can we not just enjoy this tour for what it is, not what we want it to be? If you want a live dire straits jukebox go see DSL or one of the other many 'poor old fakers'....

If you want a live dire straits jukebox go see DSL ? unfortunately it's no so easy at all, DSL is not DS, MK is DS, anything without MK can't really be DS, let alone DSL that have a lead guitarist who is far worse than many in other cover bands

MK's concerts have always been great to see, but let's be frank, some MK's decisions are extremely controversial, this all started in 1993 with on the night and the phantom songs which I guess we will never hear in our lifetime. that's the most absurd decision in the history of music.

David Gilmour in the last 2 tours, 2006 and 2015-2016, has played basically the whole new album live which is really a great idea.
MK not only doesn't play at least some of the best of the album, but always or almost always choose the ones that no one expects.
Of course we must respect that and of course the show is still great overall, but at the same time it's really controversial and also sad.

[PensaGhost]

I still amazes me that there are always people who, instead of give their opinion and respect the opinion of the rest, believe that are entitled to say to who has a different opinion that they are right and the rest are wrong.

You people, are boring and irritating as hell.

100% agree

[PensaGhost]

As a conclusion:
- obviously MK isn't in tour for money and he doesn't need to cheat us

Actually I think the only reason to have such a tough tour at 70 is money, I have no idea why he is not doing a much more relaxed tour.
Gilmour started doing that in 2006 at 60, not 70.

Guy Fletcher once officially said in his forum that MK had the idea of a live DVD from the royal albert hall but dropped it because RAH asked a too high fee. This statement was stunning to me, a musical/artistic decision dropped because of money.

[dmg]

There may be no formula for writing songs like Mark, but if you want to do tours like Mark, do the following:

1. You and me Richard, Good Luck
2. Pick songs with long outros to let the musicians jam along some sort of vamp for as long as possible
3. Pick songs you already rehearsed for previous tours, but which got rejected for some reason
4. From the new album take songs which literally nobody expects to hear live and
5. Take the most unexpected song from #4 and make it an opener
6. Pick songs based on difficulty level, despite the fact that you have Richard the Good Luck who can play anything including solos and already did that with songs like 5:15 a.m. and the first part of Telegraph Road
7. Have a dedicated percussion player in the band, but give the cowbell to flutist
8. Play half of the show while sitting, despite the fact that in 2010 you played the whole show while sitting and nobody has complained

Bonus tracks:

1. Throw away a 15-minutes song that a lot of people wants to hear and replace it with nothing
2. Change the opener from date to date for no apparent reason

You don't like his touring decisions, I get it, that's fine. So don't pay for it then, don't go.

It is what it is, I just don't get all the griping. Do you think mark is going to come on here and suddenly have an epiphany because of your critique? Hardly likely.

I think you only criticise when you care, perhaps too much.  I know I do.  I don't want to see Mark go around the world performing shows that don't showcase how he can play.  I don't want this to be the legacy he leaves.  If he cannot perform a "proper" show I would have rather he had taken on a few shows on a UK tour or perhaps not toured at all - there's no shame in that.  I've forgiven him so many things, so many songs being dropped or stripped down but now there's nothing left to the shows.

It's not just a case of don't go when you've been listening since you were at primary school, collecting every available bootleg, going to umpteen shows since DS days - it's been a huge part of my life.  Just don't go?  This is what I don't think Mark gets.  There is no option for me (and many others) about whether I'm going or not and yet he just doesn't care.

I stand by my comment that fans are being short changed if some are getting longer shows than others and hearing TR while others aren't, while others will be subject to airport curfews and whatever that will bring to their show.  Whether that is down to bad planning and PCM or not is really irrelevant because it's been happening tour after tour and Mark doesn't mind.

@Quizzy: Love that list!

I agree. At least be fair to all fans on all different venues, have an average setlist of 16? And not 14 like some had last tour... Do they remember FAIR Admission? They should start Fair Setlist Admission   

Sorry but I really think you're missing the point.

Here we are again, stood behind the maestro, telling him what to paint, how to paint it, what colour to use, and how long to paint for. You may as well go watch DSL!

The false sense of entitlement shown on here is at best unfortunate as the artist owes the fan nothing in terms of creative process.

I think you are missing one of my points by suggesting I see DSL if you don't mind me saying so. 

I take point with people saying he owes us nothing.  It is the fan buying his records and concert tickets over the years that allows him his own recording studio, fancy guitars, equipment and ability to make the records he makes today. We buy the tickets for this tour and we should have a setlist with at least some expectations.  I don't think it's too much to ask.  I would rather he didn't tour at all than leave this as his final set because it's very sad for me personally. 

No offence but I don't find the painter analogy realistic. 

[PensaGhost]

I agree with dmg