In The Sky — Acoustic Guitar Part?

[TheTimeWasWrong]

This breaks my heart as I'm accustomed to the idea of Mark's songs always capable of being performed on one guitar only.

I actually love it when he records songs that are so sophisticated (both in playing and mixing) that it almost seems magic. He's got the best studio in the world so why not use it! KTGC might not be everyone's favourite record but the mixing is really outstanding on that record.

[Jules]

 Ktgc is my favourite record

[quizzaciously]

This breaks my heart as I'm accustomed to the idea of Mark's songs always capable of being performed on one guitar only.

I actually love it when he records songs that are so sophisticated (both in playing and mixing) that it almost seems magic. He's got the best studio in the world so why not use it! KTGC might not be everyone's favourite record but the mixing is really outstanding on that record.

Kill To Get Crimson came out in the very important period of my life (start of the college time), so no wonder it's very special to me.

I tried other kinds of vibrato by the way and nothing really works. I even tried the "bottleneck" style of vibrato with fast motions along the fretboard. And it doesn't work either... It kind of works in Open G, but it lacks other things. If anyone have different results please tell us!

[JF]

In 2007 Guy said this: "Mark picked his Gibson Advanced Jumbo acoustic and it was for the most part, one take. We did however overdub the soloing towards the end as that wasn't played in the original pass. Definitely only one track though, no tricks."

One track, no tricks, but nothing about the tuning.

I think all is revealed here : "for the most part" (so obviously not for the whole part) and "we did overdubb"
I'd say the mystery is solved in the fact that Mark had to play at least 2 different parts only for the acoustic part, with maybe 2 different tunnings, (I am not talking about the Gretsch 6120 for strumming chords)), and it's maybe the reason why he never played it live

[Ingo]

That's why I hate when Mark records all the guitars for an album in the studio himself. The songs become harder to play live, harder to learn, but more lush for the ears.

The opposite here: I love the stuff where Mark played many or even all guitars. It sounds deeper and denser to me than when played with 'oridinary' playing style. Just like Sultans (album version) where the two rhythm guitars were played both by Mark which creates a very special sound and feel, compared to the versions where David played one of thr two (demo or single version).

But you are right, many songs do not sound as good live (e.g. Sailing to Philadelphia, ToL, Skateaway..)  or cannot be played live at all (e.g. Southbound Again, Communique, Silvertown Blues, ...)

[Ingo]

So when Guy says "one track", I'm not sure what he is referring to, and moreover ten years after recorded it.

I got the impression that Mark is somewhat ambitious to record rhythm tracks in a first take with no later fixes ... and I guess he remembers this songs as an example for this.

[Jules]

So when Guy says "one track", I'm not sure what he is referring to, and moreover ten years after recorded it.

I got the impression that Mark is somewhat ambitious to record rhythm tracks in a first take with no later fixes ... and I guess he remembers this songs as an example for this.

I´m not an expert but I recall that tracks has an electric rhytmic part, and acoustic rythmic and an acoustic playing the solos, all by MK.

[Ingo]

So when Guy says "one track", I'm not sure what he is referring to, and moreover ten years after recorded it.

I got the impression that Mark is somewhat ambitious to record rhythm tracks in a first take with no later fixes ... and I guess he remembers this songs as an example for this.

I´m not an expert but I recall that tracks has an electric rhytmic part, and acoustic rythmic and an acoustic playing the solos, all by MK.

Are we talking about tracks or not rather 'takes' here? The number of tracks (=different 'instruments') should be no question as we can hear each of them (!?)
On this song - just listened to again - I can however hear only one electric (Richard I guess) and one acoustic guitar (which plays a rhythm and sometimes solo)

[Jules]

So when Guy says "one track", I'm not sure what he is referring to, and moreover ten years after recorded it.

I got the impression that Mark is somewhat ambitious to record rhythm tracks in a first take with no later fixes ... and I guess he remembers this songs as an example for this.

I´m not an expert but I recall that tracks has an electric rhytmic part, and acoustic rythmic and an acoustic playing the solos, all by MK.

Are we talking about tracks or not rather 'takes' here? The number of tracks (=different 'instruments') should be no question as we can hear each of them (!?)
On this song - just listened to again - I can however hear only one electric (Richard I guess) and one acoustic guitar (which plays a rhythm and sometimes solo)

In KTGC all guitars are played by MK

[JF]

Yes, the electric guitar is the Grestch 6120, and the acoustic is the gibson advanced jumbo, both played by Mark. Infos provided by Chuck Ainlay on Mknews in 2007

the question is : is there only one track with the acoustic guitar (as it sounds when we listen to the song), or did Mark play overdubb with this acoustic guitar (one track for "rhtyhm" and one track for "solo", i.e thoses two notes), which would explain why Pavel doesn't manage to play both ryhthm and vibrato in the same time, with same tunning/capo (if I understand correctly).

if there was one or several takes is another story, and isn't "important" regarding Pavel's question, imho

[quizzaciously]

Yes, the electric guitar is the Grestch 6120, and the acoustic is the gibson advanced jumbo, both played by Mark. Infos provided by Chuck Ainlay on Mknews in 2007

the question is : is there only one track with the acoustic guitar (as it sounds when we listen to the song), or did Mark play overdubb with this acoustic guitar (one track for "rhtyhm" and one track for "solo", i.e thoses two notes), which would explain why Pavel doesn't manage to play both ryhthm and vibrato in the same time, with same tunning/capo (if I understand correctly).

if there was one or several takes is another story, and isn't "important" regarding Pavel's question, imho

Exactly, I can't say it better.

One man on Facebook said that it's obvious, that those vibrato notes was an overdub and he said he would elaborate on this topic a little bit more later. I do believe this may be an overdub simply because vibratos sounds too perfect for a rhythm part regardless of the fact that it was played by Mark Knopfler. I also believe it, because Chuck Ainlay can make a fishing line sound good and we'll never hear the cut even if there is one.

I hope that it wasn't an overdub though, because the song is so great and all I want is just to be able to play it on one acoustic guitar.

But each time I sit to pick it, I can't get the results, hence this topic and my ultimate frustration.

[Eddie Fox]

In 2007 Guy said this: "Mark picked his Gibson Advanced Jumbo acoustic and it was for the most part, one take. We did however overdub the soloing towards the end as that wasn't played in the original pass. Definitely only one track though, no tricks."

One track, no tricks, but nothing about the tuning.

I think all is revealed here : "for the most part" (so obviously not for the whole part) and "we did overdubb"
I'd say the mystery is solved in the fact that Mark had to play at least 2 different parts only for the acoustic part, with maybe 2 different tunnings, (I am not talking about the Gretsch 6120 for strumming chords)), and it's maybe the reason why he never played it live

My understanding is, apart from the soloing the accoustic was recorded in one take and later he used the same track to add the soloing (overdub), meaning you never hear more than one accoustic being played at the same time on the song. Why he overdubbed the solo? As you guys already mentioned, probably because he used two different tunnings, one for the body of the song and another one for the soloing. Or maybe it was Mark fooling around with the capo, as Guy suggested (came across that after writing this, I'm editing now).

It must have been a very quick setup though. We all know the perfectionist Mark is and it's virtually impossible to reproduce the same recording enviroment once the temperature in the room or the equipment placement is changed, for example.

[Ingo]

In KTGC all guitars are played by MK

Oh yes, you are right. The strummed electric guitar with the tremolo sounds so much like Richard; it seems here Mark had to play the 'Richard guitar' himself

the question is : is there only one track with the acoustic guitar (as it sounds when we listen to the song), or did Mark play overdubb with this acoustic guitar (one track for "rhtyhm" and one track for "solo", i.e thoses two notes), which would explain why Pavel doesn't manage to play both ryhthm and vibrato in the same time, with same tunning/capo (if I understand correctly).

As we hear only one it makes sense to state that there is only one acoustic! Definitely!

Reminds me of the little story about Chet Atkins that Mark once told: a journalist stated that Chet's fingerpicking must have been several guitars overdubbed as it seemed impossible to that guy that it was played with one guitar at the same time. This upset Chet, his reply : 'With some little practice it is perfectly possible'

If the acoustic on ITS was in fact two acoustics, noone would pan both to the same stereo position in the mix except you would like to cheat and hide that you could not play both simultaneously. And this seems impossible for someone like Mark!!!

[Ingo]

I sat down since the last post and tried to learn that song. I always liked it but I admit I hardly ever sit down to figure out particular MK songs these days. Did a lot when I was younger. Now only if I hear something that I do not 'understand' when I hear it, and want to find out what it is.

Well, dropped D with a capo at 3rd seems good. D, G, A chords (so F, C, Bb with capo), often the F and Bb with no thirds it seems...

What is the Bb played like, is it with the low open e string, Bb and F on the a and d strings at the 5th (8th) fret and the f on the b string on top? Anyway..

You are talking about the chorus, the high notes on 'the sky' ? The high a is on the b string, 7th (10th) fret, the f on the g string, same fret, three open bass strings. Then the change to the Bb chord, same notes just the Bb in the bass with your index finger, 6th (8th) fret on the low e strings, etc.

What exactly is the question now? maybe I missed something. Sorry in case of mistakes, was rather a quick trial.

[JF]

I sat down since the last post and tried to learn that song. I always liked it but I admit I hardly ever sit down to figure out particular MK songs these days. Did a lot when I was younger. Now only if I hear something that I do not 'understand' when I hear it, and want to find out what it is.

Well, dropped D with a capo at 3rd seems good. D, G, A chords (so F, C, Bb with capo), often the F and Bb with no thirds it seems...

What is the Bb played like, is it with the Bb and F on the low strings at the 5th (8th) fret and the f on the b string on top? Anyway..

You are talking about the chorus, the high notes on 'the sky' ? The high a is on the b string, 7th (10th) fret, the f on the g string, same fret, three open bass strings. Then the change to the Bb chord, same notes just the Bb in the bass with your index finger, 6th (8th) fret on the low e strings, etc.

What exactly is the question now? maybe I missed something. Sorry in case of mistakes, was rather a quick trial.

thanks Ingo  I was referring to what Pavel explained, but I must admit I didn't even try to play it, so I don't even know if it's (im)possible to play or not