Vinyl bootlegs

[wespresso]

Yeah I saw live at Leeds in a store two weeks ago, it came with a cd. Maybe I will go back and buy it

I think that Live at Leeds is not from the same generation as those bootlegs, which are mainly from 90ies or even 80ies, and released by "real" labels like Swinging pigs for example.

Live at Leeds came from a tree between fans around early 2000ies if memory serves, and even if it was burned onto CD, it wasn't a "real" sliver pressed one, or did I miss something ?

Yes it is a recent one, I saw it in the list of that site and I thought of that I saw it.

[vilaplana]

The LP + CD version is a really new one, and it can be found in 3 colours (red, blue or green). It is also true that the 1st copies in circulation were the ones between spanish fans, as I think the recording came from a DS close source. I still own my own copy (cdr)...

[Ingo]

The Leeds bootleg came on a tape cassette from a source said to be close to the band (former roadie?), not sure. This person was said to have more rare stuff, and he insisted that the tape may be digitalized and copied to 10 CD copies only which were given (of course for free, the whoile thing was 100% non-commercial) to 10 of the 'biggest DS fans', chosen by those fans who organized the whole thing. A few of these might be Spanish but it was nothing exclusive between Spanish fans, like stated above. Everyone of these 10 had to promise not to pass it on to anybody else. A few years later it leaked nevertheless so that this historical recording is available now to every fan 
AFAIK, we never got more stuff from this source anyway.

The tape was returned to the source. It also included some more stuff like an early radio broadcast, possibly the BBC concert, but also a very early radio interview. Interestingly the interview started with a *sounboard* recording of 'Lions' from an unknown source! Unfortunately only the first seconds, then it was was faded out, and faded in again for some more seconds at the end of the song
At least we know this way that there is one more 'unreleased' sounboard recording from 1978, there is only little hope but maybe it appears one day

[vilaplana]

Wow! Pretty nice info!

It is true that this wasn't something exclusive to spanish fans, but the original distribution was made from Spain:

https://web.archive.org/web/20011031092254/http://silvertown.free.fr/leeds.html

[Ingo]

Ah yes, I remember that Galderic site ... but this distribution tree was **several years later**, after it 'leaked to the public'. The original 10 fans who got a first copy are all not on this list for this reason.
I think the tape was digitalized in 1997.

The tape that was the source for the first 10 CDs was not the original tape by the way but probably a 1st generation copy. The reason it is faded out at the break in 'Southbound' was that there was apparently a 'tape jam' with the original tape (terrible sound with changing speed, then stopped). It continued with Eastbound Train, the song(s) between (only Six Blade Knife I guess) is missing for this reason.

The Lions recording on that tape that I mentioned before was not only soundboard but even studio (!) by the way (no audience can be heard at the beginning), and it can't be a demo because we know from the Oldfield book that Lions was written during recording the first album, must be from the first half of 1978 as in the interview Mark said the band was founded exactly one year ago, so the interview should be from about summer 1978.

[JF]

an interesting point about the Leeds gig is that on their first tour they tried a different order in the setlist than they did on next shows :
southbound as an opener while it became an encore later in the year, Eastbound train in third position (if we count six blade knife) while it also became an encore.
Or is the bootleg not in the original order ? 

Ingo, I have an itw that came with a Barbarella's bootleg I got on tape from a french fan in 1992.
Mark is indeed saying the band was founded exactly one year ago, so I guess it's the same you're talking about
The total length is 12:44, but the speed seems too fast, so the times I'm giving are not accurate

it contains some songs from the 1st album :
- little snippet from setting me up at the beginning, just before the itw start. The radio specker says "Mark and David talk to Bob Quilby" (well at least that's what I understand, it could be slightly differently spelled)
- very little snippet (badly edited) from Water of love around 2:00
- part from Sultans between 4:47- 7:07
- part from wild west end between 8:35-10:15
- southbound at the end.
All versions are album versions.

but I can't hear any Lion snippet 
maybe I don't have the whole itw ?

[loversaresupposed]

Thanks Marc Vilaplana! Great job with www.dsboots.com. 

[Ingo]

an interesting point about the Leeds gig is that on their first tour they tried a different order in the setlist than they did on next shows :
southbound as an opener while it became an encore later in the year, Eastbound train in third position (if we count six blade knife) while it also became an encore.
Or is the bootleg not in the original order ? 

Ingo, I have an itw that came with a Barbarella's bootleg I got on tape from a french fan in 1992.
Mark is indeed saying the band was founded exactly one year ago, so I guess it's the same you're talking about
The total length is 12:44, but the speed seems too fast, so the times I'm giving are not accurate

it contains some songs from the 1st album :
- little snippet from setting me up at the beginning, just before the itw start. The radio specker says "Mark and David talk to Bob Quilby" (well at least that's what I understand, it could be slightly differently spelled)
- very little snippet (badly edited) from Water of love around 2:00
- part from Sultans between 4:47- 7:07
- part from wild west end between 8:35-10:15
- southbound at the end.
All versions are album versions.

but I can't hear any Lion snippet 
maybe I don't have the whole itw ?

You are right, that is the interview I was talking about, and in fact the Lions snippet IS NOT part of that interview, my mistake (it was immediately BEFORE the interview on the Leeds tape, it is a different speaker voice as well!)

I uploaded the Lions snippet here so that everyone can take a listen to these valuable 23 seconds 
http://www.mk-guitar.com/sounds/lions-1978-unknown-snippet.mp3

[Jules]

The Leeds bootleg came on a tape cassette from a source said to be close to the band (former roadie?), not sure. This person was said to have more rare stuff, and he insisted that the tape may be digitalized and copied to 10 CD copies only which were given (of course for free, the whoile thing was 100% non-commercial) to 10 of the 'biggest DS fans', chosen by those fans who organized the whole thing. A few of these might be Spanish but it was nothing exclusive between Spanish fans, like stated above. Everyone of these 10 had to promise not to pass it on to anybody else. A few years later it leaked nevertheless so that this historical recording is available now to every fan 
AFAIK, we never got more stuff from this source anyway.

Probably I'm wrong but in first reading I thought you were kind of blaming the "tree" in which Leeds 78 was freely distributed in 2001 of not getting more stuff from that source, but, if the first copy tranfered to cd was in 1997, I guess that if the source didn´t offered more rare stuff in that four years in between, it has nothing to do with that second transfer from 2001.

I like that Leeds got in a commercial bootleg anyway, it´s a nice concert, and since it´s easy to get it free, there is no harm, just another piece for collectors that like the bootleg LP's and CD's more than flac/mp3 files.

I was the one who did the second transfer to CD from a tape sent to Galderic, and we both organized the tree, well, honestly, it was Galderic who did the hard work. I think I have the copy number two of that free tree, and the cover and back cover was designed by me, with a mistake in "Down to the waterline", i think I wrote "Doan to the waterline" or something like that.

[Ingo]

The Leeds bootleg came on a tape cassette from a source said to be close to the band (former roadie?), not sure. This person was said to have more rare stuff, and he insisted that the tape may be digitalized and copied to 10 CD copies only which were given (of course for free, the whoile thing was 100% non-commercial) to 10 of the 'biggest DS fans', chosen by those fans who organized the whole thing. A few of these might be Spanish but it was nothing exclusive between Spanish fans, like stated above. Everyone of these 10 had to promise not to pass it on to anybody else. A few years later it leaked nevertheless so that this historical recording is available now to every fan 
AFAIK, we never got more stuff from this source anyway.

Probably I'm wrong but in first reading I thought you were kind of blaming the "tree" in which Leeds 78 was freely distributed in 2001 of not getting more stuff from that source, but, if the first copy tranfered to cd was in 1997, I guess that if the source didn´t offered more rare stuff in that four years in between, it has nothing to do with that second transfer from 2001.

I like that Leeds got in a commercial bootleg anyway, it´s a nice concert, and since it´s easy to get it free, there is no harm, just another piece for collectors that like the bootleg LP's and CD's more than flac/mp3 files.

I was the one who did the second transfer to CD from a tape sent to Galderic, and we both organized the tree, well, honestly, it was Galderic who did the hard work. I think I have the copy number two of that free tree, and the cover and back cover was designed by me, with a mistake in "Down to the waterline", i think I wrote "Doan to the waterline" or something like that.

Oh no, I am not blaming anyone. I was really glad that there was a tree and it became available to all fans finally.

It was not only the fear of not getting more stuff from that source - which we did not anyway as it turned out but this had nothing to do with the Galderic tree years later - but the fact that we gave our word not to give it to anyone. All these great 'historical' recordings deserve it to be available to any true fan, and should not be in the shelf of any collector.

[Ingo]

I was the one who did the second transfer to CD from a tape sent to Galderic, and we both organized the tree

So the version of the tree was from a tape, this was new to me !?  It raises the question which tape was the lower generation copy, the one in 1997 or in 2001?
I never downloaded Leeds, always thought it was the same as the original one, so I never compared them.

[Jules]

Did you have to edit your tape and do the fade in and fade out if Southbound again, as you mention in your post?

My tape had that parts already edited so maybe was made from your transfer put on tape 

[Ingo]

Did you have to edit your tape and do the fade in and fade out if Southbound again, as you mention in your post?

My tape had that parts already edited so maybe was made from your transfer put on tape 

Yes, I did the fade out there. On my version it is exactly at the end of the 3rd riff in the break. The tape had at least a part of the 4th riff I think but with awful sound due to the tape defect. If you listen carefully to the last notes in the fade out you will hear the first Micky Mouse sound artefacts during the last two seconds or so.

You are right, if your version has the same editing and came from a tape it must be lossy compared to my version.

[JF]

I uploaded the Lions snippet here so that everyone can take a listen to these valuable 23 seconds 
http://www.mk-guitar.com/sounds/lions-1978-unknown-snippet.mp3

are you sure it's studio ?
we don't hear audience noises, but as the snippet is very short, it could be very well a live extract

[Ingo]

You are right, it is rather a feel from an inner voice that makes me think so. 

I even have a date suggestion for this recording: the DS event lists we have say  'April 13, 1978: BBC Session, Manchester' - no bootleg with such a recording available so this one might be from this 'missing link'.

My ears also tell me that April makes sense (yes, I can hear that ... more or less, must be after the album (finished early March) and before summer 78 (more distortion from Twin Reverbs with Marshall cabs while this one sounds more like Chester, also in April)

If so, this April 13 recording is - together with the Communique demos and the rest of the Hope&Anchor gig (Eastbound Train) - on top of the list of DS stuff I pray to reappear one day.