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Author Topic: David Knopfler crowd funding next album  (Read 35724 times)

OfflineJustme

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Re: David Knopfler crowd funding next album
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2015, 08:25:00 PM »
I would not laugh at him as he is an artist desperately trying to get money for his record.

Once I contacted him and and his replies were extremely rude.

If I think his way of getting money is laughable, I will laugh.

That is pretty sad to be honest. These guys don't seem to know that we have a different time nowadays. As a non-major-record artist you have to be nice to every customer. There is no room for diva behaviour, unless you are Robbie Williams, for example.
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OfflineJules

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Re: David Knopfler crowd funding next album
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2015, 10:02:40 AM »
I don´t think that is sad that David has to sell his platinum DS prize to fund his next album, I think it´s a question of what you value the most, to make a new record, or to have a prize hanging in your wall or getting dust somewhere...

We should respect that any artist, David Knopfler or John Doe decides to go crowfunding to make a record, nowdays is more difficult to get investment for it, and I truly respect that David wants to continue recording in a high quality way, instead of doing it in his own bedrom with a computer, that can sound well, but it´s not the same for a musician that had worked in recording studios all his life and still wants to deliver his music in that quality.

I respect that, and I respect his choice. Some of the perks he has looks pretty dumb for me, but who knows... the fact that I don´t like them doesn´t mean anything except I don´t like them.
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Offlineds1984

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Re: David Knopfler crowd funding next album
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2015, 12:59:18 PM »
I am with jbaent on that. We are talking about art.

If only nice chaps deserved to produce costly album then a lot of masterpieces would never had been produced.

I won't fund him only because I am not interested by  his music (and I am not rich enough to buy his genuine platinum award).

The haters are those who write shit

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OfflineJules

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Re: David Knopfler crowd funding next album
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2015, 02:05:44 PM »
As long as I will buy his next cd, because I like his music, I fund him paying his cd "in advance", it makes sense to me, I don´t mind if I pay for it before or after.

In my opinion, his last records are good, and, do you remember how MK changed his music style in 2002 when he released "The Ragpickers Dream", well, David was doing a very similar kind of music in 1993 with his cd "The Giver", and continued that way with "Small Mercies", both great records in my opinion, specially the last one.

From that moments, all his cds have a similar music quality and follows his own path, same way that MK did after "Ragpickers".
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Offlineds1984

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Re: David Knopfler crowd funding next album
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2015, 04:35:24 PM »
In Mark's case RPD is the first solo album without input from Ed so RPD can be considered as his real first solo album.
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Offlinevgonis

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Re: David Knopfler crowd funding next album
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2015, 05:19:33 PM »


I have most of his albums ( missed his latest live, small mercies and songs for the siren, hopefully will get them in time)  since the very beginning, and I have enjoyed them,  some more than others. There have been major changes in his sound since the 80ies,  and if you can't  enjoy different slyles, you have to choose carefully from his output. But listen to this great song from his Ship of dreams! And in general his studio efforts are much cared for. No need to be harsh, either about his music or his way of getting the funds for his new album. You either like it or not.

Fletch, David's first album is OK and it contains the only MK contribution.
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Offlinevgonis

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Re: David Knopfler crowd funding next album
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2015, 05:24:49 PM »
As for the money target (75k$) think that the first DS album cost 12,500pounds, 40 years ago. If you do the math, you realise it is logical. 
Come on, it is not funny anymore.

OfflineMK-47

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Re: David Knopfler crowd funding next album
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2015, 09:39:49 PM »


I have most of his albums ( missed his latest live, small mercies and songs for the siren, hopefully will get them in time)  since the very beginning, and I have enjoyed them,  some more than others. There have been major changes in his sound since the 80ies,  and if you can't  enjoy different slyles, you have to choose carefully from his output. But listen to this great song from his Ship of dreams! And in general his studio efforts are much cared for. No need to be harsh, either about his music or his way of getting the funds for his new album. You either like it or not.

Fletch, David's first album is OK and it contains the only MK contribution.

Wow, I really like this song thanks vgonis. Getting the funds for his new album is still pretty strange though.

OfflineBuford T Justice

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Re: David Knopfler crowd funding next album
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2015, 09:23:27 PM »
As for the money target (75k$) think that the first DS album cost 12,500pounds, 40 years ago. If you do the math, you realise it is logical.


You compare 1970s costs with now however the music industry has changed massively since that time. Artists now may boast of Number 1 records but to reach that pinnacle is significantly easier than a decade or so ago. Record sales are largely down, and self made and self funded records are the way forward - do it yourself, release it yourself and cut the middle man out. There are lots of new artists doing that - I buy their material. Most have day time jobs and manage, with small scale tours in support. Large scale arena and stadium acts are dying out, as are massively expensive albums. Albums rarely make money back - people but tracks on itunes they like, or more likely rip them off the internet for nothing.

If he wants to do this and gets the funding then best of luck to him. However, as others have said, albums can be made with significantly less expenditure. Same goes for session musicians - there's no Hendrix-esque solos screaming out from his albums that may necessitate hiring in musical gurus so the extra expense for more "name" artists seems rather a waste. He should offer them a % cut of the profits in exchange for them doing it free......that would give an indication as to everyone's faith in the material to turn a profit in these evolving musical times.

As I say, best of luck to him but earning £75k from sales just to break even would seem to me to be quite ambitious for him.
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Offlinevgonis

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Re: David Knopfler crowd funding next album
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2015, 10:39:12 PM »
As for the money target (75k$) think that the first DS album cost 12,500pounds, 40 years ago. If you do the math, you realise it is logical.


You compare 1970s costs with now however the music industry has changed massively since that time. Artists now may boast of Number 1 records but to reach that pinnacle is significantly easier than a decade or so ago. Record sales are largely down, and self made and self funded records are the way forward - do it yourself, release it yourself and cut the middle man out. There are lots of new artists doing that - I buy their material. Most have day time jobs and manage, with small scale tours in support. Large scale arena and stadium acts are dying out, as are massively expensive albums. Albums rarely make money back - people but tracks on itunes they like, or more likely rip them off the internet for nothing.

If he wants to do this and gets the funding then best of luck to him. However, as others have said, albums can be made with significantly less expenditure. Same goes for session musicians - there's no Hendrix-esque solos screaming out from his albums that may necessitate hiring in musical gurus so the extra expense for more "name" artists seems rather a waste. He should offer them a % cut of the profits in exchange for them doing it free......that would give an indication as to everyone's faith in the material to turn a profit in these evolving musical times.

As I say, best of luck to him but earning £75k from sales just to break even would seem to me to be quite ambitious for him.

To be fair I also believe in self made-self produced and self distributed records, being the way of the future, but on the other hand, this is more or less what David is doing. The only thing that seems to be troubling most people here, is the 75k$. I am not doing this to defend my original statement, because each of us can put more weight in different factors. After all it is nice to talk about things we like! And pre-selling your record raising the money from  the fans is the best way to go! Radiohead did a similar thing with In Rainbows and King of limbs but they were Radiohead after all!

So, 75k$  is a rough estimate really, he will work with what he will raise, either way. And of course more than half of your arguments can work both ways. They don't buy records-they have to fund in different ways. Number 1 records may be easier, but that exactly means fewer sales, less money.  And for artists such as David, it is hardly the case, even though it would be nice to have a no1, even with today's fewer sales.  The extra musicians- special studios etc  have to be paid in advance, because they don't believe in sales, even for successful artists. Studios can offer much better quality than home studios, especially for bigger things. Not all things can be recorded in home-computer studios. Some times "live" studio recordings with many musicians or an orchestra, demand sparse places that a home studio can not provide. Money can give you a sense of security and help you take the extra step, that makes the difference between a solid song and a masterpiece. And a good producer can help a lot. George Martin was considered from many as the fifth Beatle. Think about British Grove a bit. MK could have recorded some of his blues songs in a home studio, to gain from the lo-fi. Blues songs with a rough edge add to the general experience that blues usually convey. Of course MK owns BG, so it is no cost for him to record there, but the attention and detail he gives even to simpler songs, means a lot. Do you know the price per hour for use of the studio? 100 pounds per hour with minimum of two hours, or 299 pounds for 6 hours /in one day. So if the work is to be recorded in 30 days, this is 9000 pounds, only for recording, not mixing, mastering, production fees, musician fees, cover art, CD production, distribution cost, advertisements  etc.  http://recordproduction.smugmug.com/Music/Recording-Studios/British-Grove-Studios/ 

I like the rough rock sound, but some things demand bigger productions and a fine producer. Even the first DS album had a proper producer, that got a percentage (foolishly he didn't think much of the album so he lost most of his production pay from American sales!) And many punk groups had a proper producer, amongst them  the Clash and the Damned. To push it a bit further, Bob Ezrin and Todd Rundgren were not famous just because of luck. They added greatly to what they touched. And the matter of money solved many of the problems and helped them fulfill their vision that we still enjoy 40 years on. These people also do get paid in advance nowadays. And only the results will prove if the money were well spent. The fact that we imagine what it would be like, or how it could be made, or if deserves 75k$ to be made, is only nice for our discussion, but we are not in David's shoes.

Left for last, is the fact, that you correctly mention,  that expensive albums are really hard to do nowadays. Big productions that have to be pre-paid are almost out of the question. But they are done, even for acts that are not in the super league. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elbow_%28band%29  They just made no.1 after 20 years! And their orchestra triumph was 7 years ago!)  But, with the technology at hand most of the things that used to cost a lot of money, are at hands reach, for no money at all, or just for copyright. No need to bring in musicians from around the world. Send the track and they will add their piece. No need to invent special FX. They are all there to use and combine. Only thing that seems missing lately is good old inspiration!
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Offlinejakehadlee

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Re: David Knopfler crowd funding next album
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2015, 12:40:36 AM »
Despite the hype about "bedroom recording" £75k is peanuts for a serious production, even these days.

I kind of feel a bit sorry for DK - he's not a great songwriter by any stretch, but he got royally stiffed by his brother who might have at least let him have one track on each album. He's no Mark Knopfler, but then his best stuff is better than his brother's worst. I could have lived without Les Boys, Follow Me Home or Lions for a token DK song.


Offlinevgonis

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Re: David Knopfler crowd funding next album
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2015, 07:10:46 AM »
Despite the hype about "bedroom recording" £75k is peanuts for a serious production, even these days.

I kind of feel a bit sorry for DK - he's not a great songwriter by any stretch, but he got royally stiffed by his brother who might have at least let him have one track on each album. He's no Mark Knopfler, but then his best stuff is better than his brother's worst. I could have lived without Les Boys, Follow Me Home or Lions for a token DK song.


 

I could agree with almost everything, but Follow me home and Lions are amongst my favorite DS songs! Even Les Boys is OK, just unusual for DS and a bit strange on MM.
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Re: David Knopfler crowd funding next album
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2015, 10:04:44 AM »
Despite the hype about "bedroom recording" £75k is peanuts for a serious production, even these days.

I kind of feel a bit sorry for DK - he's not a great songwriter by any stretch, but he got royally stiffed by his brother who might have at least let him have one track on each album. He's no Mark Knopfler, but then his best stuff is better than his brother's worst. I could have lived without Les Boys, Follow Me Home or Lions for a token DK song.

Oh, man, some of the stinkers Mark has produced.

But in retrospect, Mark was hungry, he was on a roll and (probably pushed by Ed) knew that if he doesn't step on the accelerator big time he may lose his chance. No time for democracy, lenghty band discussions, etc. Humanly speaking Mark's behavior was awful, but I think it was a necessary evil at that time.

OfflineMK-47

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Re: David Knopfler crowd funding next album
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2015, 11:09:41 AM »
Despite the hype about "bedroom recording" £75k is peanuts for a serious production, even these days.

I kind of feel a bit sorry for DK - he's not a great songwriter by any stretch, but he got royally stiffed by his brother who might have at least let him have one track on each album. He's no Mark Knopfler, but then his best stuff is better than his brother's worst. I could have lived without Les Boys, Follow Me Home or Lions for a token DK song.

Oh, man, some of the stinkers Mark has produced.

But in retrospect, Mark was hungry, he was on a roll and (probably pushed by Ed) knew that if he doesn't step on the accelerator big time he may lose his chance. No time for democracy, lenghty band discussions, etc. Humanly speaking Mark's behavior was awful, but I think it was a necessary evil at that time.

I think Mark's behavior might be seen as awful only because it was his brother who was involved. He stated in a few interviews that DS was just a vehicle for his songs and that is quite obvious. Now let's be honest, Mark probably could have done the same thing with any other similar band, maybe with the exception of Pick Wither who was the only one beside Mark who had something extraordinary. I think John and David were considered because they were there, now I don't mean to say that their membership in the band was Mark's charity or gift but they weren't that important and I think it was clear from the beginning who was calling the shots. After some time, David obviously felt irritated by the exclusion of his songs and constantly taking orders from his brother. In my opinion it was important and a wise marketing decision that Dire Straits would be a Mark Knopfler band because it was obvious what and who got people interested in their music.

In the end I think it was very logical then for David to leave the band and do his own thing. I have listened to his songs and they are good, some I have enjoyed very much. But in my opinion his work just wouldn't fit well with DS even if some of his best songs were better than Mark's worst ones (but I can't think of any). Couple of songs he wrote that we know of while he was in DS were certainly not up to par. He wrote Real Girl I think and What's the Matter With You Baby and both of these songs are listenable because of the guitar work, not because of lyrics. Ed Bicknell was relieved when they didn't include Sacred Loving as he said in some interview. Again even if some of his material was better than Mark's it was still a better marketing decision to go with just one singer/songwriter/master guitarist because if your sales depend only on pure music fans, you won't sell that much records. By "pure music fans" I mean people who will follow a band or artist purely because of music and aren't that much affected by his/hers image in the media or mythology around it.

My opinion: DS needed an image that would sell more, and what better image was there than to portray Mark as an english Dylan with His band who makes all the decisions and so on. Ed Bicknell played a great part in this decision and time has show that it was certainly the right decision to make. Pity about their sad fallout but it happened long after he left the band. It's just my two cents, hope you don't mind the long post.

Offlinevgonis

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Re: David Knopfler crowd funding next album
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2015, 03:02:10 PM »
Stingcheese=Jackal?Is it you? Welcome back man! Haven't been regular to AMIT, due to the Greek situation and didn't notice your return and  new nick!
Come on, it is not funny anymore.

 

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