Official versions of songs by Dire Straits / Mark Knopfler

[vgonis]

Thanks for this list. It will take me days to go thoroghly through it. 
A quick question. SOS has at least one more official release as an alternative version at a 7'' pressing, in the UK. The 12'' claimed that this was it, but actually it was included only on the 7''. Is it the demo alternative mix you mention? I think Muff Winwood is mentioned, so most probably an alternative studio take and not a demo.

[ds1984]

Thanks for this list. It will take me days to go thoroghly through it. 
A quick question. SOS has at least one more official release as an alternative version at a 7'' pressing, in the UK. The 12'' claimed that this was it, but actually it was included only on the 7''. Is it the demo alternative mix you mention? I think Muff Winwood is mentioned, so most probably an alternative studio take and not a demo.

The staff though that the album version was not punchy enough and asked the band to return in studio and re record it. And right the 12" that was relesed way after used the album version instead. To my known, the 7" version has never been published on CD. According to Wikipedia the singlme was recording April 1978 at Pathway Studios, the same studio were they recorded the five demo in 1977.

Now I wonder if among their tv appearance performing it playback if they used the single version or the album one, and if any has been released on DVD?

[JF]

the exact date of the single version recording is the 20th april 1978 (the day after the chester gig)

more info about gear on Ingo's blog :
http://www.mk-guitar.com/2009/11/18/sultans-of-swing-the-alternate-single-version-and-the-demo-version_sound_and_gear/

I'm not aware of any TV show using this version

note : it's the firts time Mak added a few bars before the final tiwddy bits, bars he have played for years until 2009 when he decided to go back to "original" version

[H97]

Interesting posts on Sultans..

From the studio versions, am I right to say these versions excist?

- Album Version
- Single Version
- Demo Version (which was included on a various artists LP called The Honky Tonk demos)
- Demo Version with different speed (internet leak)

[JF]

Interesting posts on Sultans..

From the studio versions, am I right to say these versions excist?

- Album Version
- Single Version
- Demo Version (which was included on a various artists LP called The Honky Tonk demos)
- Demo Version with different speed (internet leak)

I would not call the last one as a " version"
There are many examples of bootlegs with wrong speed : the silver pressed cd "early demos" was one of them, Boston 79 is another one. It

[vgonis]

I will have to check for more. There is one SOS version full, after the fade out at the record, found in the  www.mk-guitar.com, but if you are going for official releases this one might be tricky and not make the list. I think it was included in one of those guitar hero games, and there is also a vocla channel, a guitar channel and an instrumental one.

[dustyvalentino]

you where to send it, right dusty?? :-)

Main concern is posting vinyl...

[JF]

I will have to check for more. There is one SOS version full, after the fade out at the record, found in the  www.mk-guitar.com, but if you are going for official releases this one might be tricky and not make the list. I think it was included in one of those guitar hero games, and there is also a vocla channel, a guitar channel and an instrumental one.

yes indeed Ingo posted an article about this :

http://www.mk-guitar.com/2009/12/15/sensational-sultans-of-swing-guitar-track-solo-without-backing-tracks-from-guitar-hero-5/

it's the track used for Guitar hero 5.

Ingo also posted an article with a different solo take :

http://www.mk-guitar.com/2011/01/15/alternate-sultans-of-swing-solo-take-from-first-album-session-unheard-before-exclusively-on-mk-guitar-com/

very nice to hear these "curiosities"



however, I think we can't call these tracks as "versions". these sounds come all from the same version, the same recording take.

IMHO, a "version" is a recording take.
Then you have editing and mix, for different supports (single, album, radio, promo, and now even video game, etc...

"alternate takes " (like e.g. the Dylan's infidel sessions") are really differents versions, in term of music playing, but e.g. the BIA LP and the BIA CD are not "different" versions, these are just edit versions on the LP.

If the list has to list all different "supports", then you have to list vynil/ tape / CD / VHS /DVD, etc...
but if it's a list of "versions", I'm not sure that it have to list all different editing from the same take.

[Pottel]

Agree with jf. The one to post here should always be the longest edit

[vgonis]

I will have to agree, even though for some songs the longer versions were a nice surprise (though I wouldn't call them revelations).

[JF]

I will have to agree, even though for some songs the longer versions were a nice surprise (though I wouldn't call them revelations).

I would rather say that they were the "normal" versions, while others were "shorter", or at least "edit versions"

for example the "orignal" versions  of SFA, MFN, YLT and WW are the ones on the CD.
The ones on the LP are the edit ones

not the reverse...

As for WII and STP, it becomes a little bit tricky : should we say that the STP "original" version is the one on the PI comp ? rather than the one on the album ?
and should we say that the origianl WII version is the one on the mexcian promo CD, rather that the one on the album ?

well, I would say yes, because in both cases it's the original entire recording take, while the versions released on album were edited.

BTW, in the gallery is also edited at the end

[vgonis]

Now this is a nice argument, JF!  I know I have already agreed but not on these grounds but rather due to the triviality of the matter. 

So if I could elaborate:

I believe that we have to take into consideration which format (CD-Vinyl) was consumed more, which edit was played more at TVs and radios and which edit was heard and imprinted in the conscience of most people. 
As such the edited versions are the ones in question. For fans like us who seek the  extra missing seconds, it is somehow important, but we are hardly the 1% of the consumers, who still follow such old acts and notice the differences. 

All versions  are in fact edits, even the longest ones,  if we consider there is a fade out in all songs (as heard on the uncut SOS version). So if you decide to further edit it for every format it is an artistic decision that changes somehow the stracture of the song, especially if the cut is in the middle of the song like SFA or MFN or WII (which omits a whole verse = version)  and less on WW or YLT although the sax part in YLT is a great omition and the Instrumental part in WW is way too long to consider a simple edit... The omition of verses can change the whole meaning of songs and the omition of a solo can make the difference between success and failure.  (The BIA album is definately a sales trick to market the new format, but still the vinyl edition has sold more)

So yes, we can claim it is a different version and not just an edit, only for these reasons.  Of course the artist having complete control over them would certainly declare a version as definitive and let the others into obscurity, so since the SOS versions surviving to the digital age are the ones on remastered debut and Alchemy, maybe we should skip the others. The STP version can even be considered a sales trick, to attract the fans who want everything.

Maybe dear Hugo who started it should set the rules so we stop nagging! 

Because after all,  it is just a song, who cares but us? 

[H97]

My idea for setting up this thread was to create a list of different versions of the songs.
I wanted to set it up like this: http://mjofficialversions.blogspot.fr/search/label/Beat%20It

Edit versions are after all different from the album version, and different "takes" are (very) different too.
I believe both should be listed, maybe separate from each other.

That way, you'll get lists like "Down To The Waterline":

Album Version which is the final mixing form that appeared on the album, may be taken from different takes
Demo Version mostly one take, but it can be mixed. It's definitly not 100% the same take as the album version though
Live -  BBC 1978 (From

[vgonis]

So according to the Jackson link, everything is to be included with the mention of the source and duration?

 I guess DS has less work than Jackson, since there are fewer remixes. Even with the not officially available demos included. 


 OK, I am game and as long as I can spare some time I will help you Hugo! Thanks again!

[JF]

OK Hugo it's up to you to decide since it's "your" list 

But I don't see the point to list all different "cut/edits" of the same song.

Example for MFN or Sultans, I heard many times on radio edit versions which were different from the single edit versions, because radio sound engineers make their own edits in order to fit their broadcast schedule. So sometimes you hear a verse, sometimes you don't hear it, just because there's a longer ad just after... is it a "different" version for you ? 

Then if you list these differences, you should include the fact that radio compresses much the songs, so the mix is in a way "different" from the album. I sometimes hear things in a song on radio that I didn't hear on album at home, and vice versa, but of course it's not a different mix, it's just the compression.

the first example that comes to mind is stairway to heaven : at home I barely Hear Robert Plant at the end, but on radio, he's almost louder than the rock part !

anyway, I admit I don't pay much attention to the different cuts/edit existing on the market. What I want to listen is the longer edit, thereby I am sure that it includes all "versions"