Rock and roll hall of fame

[Eddie Fox]

So this is the scenario:

Dire Straits never existed, Mark Knopfler became an English teacher but kept developing his music skills as some sort of low profile side business. Nobody knows who he is. In 1996 he decides to launch an album (assuming that an English teacher could afford the studios and the musicians Mark hired) and Golden Heart is released. What do you guys think would come up next?

Being unrealistically optimistic, let's say Mark somehow managed to release the very same albums he's produced since DS got dissolved. We are now in 2018, how do you think his career would have developed up to this point? Remember, Dire Straits was never founded.

My guess is Mark would be a cult rocker, people would ask where the hell he was hiding all those years and stuff but he would never have what he has now, not even close. And I mean not only recognition but also (and maybe mainly) wealth. Dire Straits allowed Mark to do everything that came after, it's undeniable. As I said, I don't even know if I'd be a fan myself, I can't measure how much of my current admiration for Mark comes from a preexisting fandom condition.

This theory is irrelevant, he is who he has become. Does not change his actual musical quality

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Yes, but he wouldn’t be who he is now if Dire Straits never existed. You just confirmed what I said 

[Mossguitar]

The success of Dire Straits happened because of Mark Knopfler, not the other way around. DS was early MK, nothing else.

[PensaGhost]

a good poll could be if you like more DS or MK stuff

[Don70]

The success of Dire Straits happened because of Mark Knopfler, not the other way around. DS was early MK, nothing else.

[Marijo58]

The success of Dire Straits happened because of Mark Knopfler, not the other way around. DS was early MK, nothing else.

Exactly !! It has always been MK first...  It was his dream to start a band. Dire Straits would have never been so successful without him. It stopped when he decided that I was too Big for him!!

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[Pottel]

So this is the scenario:

Dire Straits never existed, Mark Knopfler became an English teacher but kept developing his music skills as some sort of low profile side business. Nobody knows who he is. In 1996 he decides to launch an album (assuming that an English teacher could afford the studios and the musicians Mark hired) and Golden Heart is released. What do you guys think would come up next?

Being unrealistically optimistic, let's say Mark somehow managed to release the very same albums he's produced since DS got dissolved. We are now in 2018, how do you think his career would have developed up to this point? Remember, Dire Straits was never founded.

My guess is Mark would be a cult rocker, people would ask where the hell he was hiding all those years and stuff but he would never have what he has now, not even close. And I mean not only recognition but also (and maybe mainly) wealth. Dire Straits allowed Mark to do everything that came after, it's undeniable. As I said, I don't even know if I'd be a fan myself, I can't measure how much of my current admiration for Mark comes from a preexisting fandom condition.

This theory is irrelevant, he is who he has become. Does not change his actual musical quality

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Yes, but he wouldn’t be who he is now if Dire Straits never existed. You just confirmed what I said 

Never intended to deny it

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[ds1984]

The success of Dire Straits happened because of Mark Knopfler, not the other way around. DS was early MK, nothing else.

Considering that if Mark had chosen three different pals to play with the story would have remained the same, you are probably right.

[Pottel]

The success of Dire Straits happened because of Mark Knopfler, not the other way around. DS was early MK, nothing else.

Considering that if Mark had chosen three different pals to play with the story would have remained the same, you are probably right.

Exactomundo!!

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[DS]

a good poll could be if you like more DS or MK stuff

I wouldn't be able to answer!

First, some people seem to talk about DS/MK music as two different, disjoint things... But they're more like a gradient, slowly changing from one to the other with time.
Second, I found it really depends on the period. Right now I rarely listen to any DS song, except the occasional TR or SOS. I'm more comfortable with the new stuff. But things will change again in a couple months, as they always do 

[Eddie Fox]

a good poll could be if you like more DS or MK stuff

I wouldn't be able to answer!

First, some people seem to talk about DS/MK music as two different, disjoint things... But they're more like a gradient, slowly changing from one to the other with time.
Second, I found it really depends on the period. Right now I rarely listen to any DS song, except the occasional TR or SOS. I'm more comfortable with the new stuff. But things will change again in a couple months, as they always do 

Sadly, that’s on Mark. He’s the one who created this division.

[Don70]

Most songs are considered masterpieces because of his guitar work. The songs themselves, well, if you get rid of the guitar many songs are not that impressive and many of them pretty basic. I don't expect anyone to agree with that, but try and make a test.
Get rid of the guitar in MFN, BIA, R&J, etc, and you'll see, the songs are not THAT special. All the flavour and all the magic came from his fingers.

His solo work is way more elaborated, more complex, songwriting, arrangements, everything is on another level. Except his guitar playing.

I agree. Although, Love Over Gold probably has some of his most advanced work in terms of musical complexity. Certainly, a lot of the early Dire Straits was quite simple music that was elevated by his guitar playing and Pick’s drumming. I remember someone doing Sultans in a karaoke bar years ago. The karaoke version had none of the guitar licks, just the backing chords. It struck me how plain the song was without the lead guitar lines.

[Trawlerman]

Most songs are considered masterpieces because of his guitar work. The songs themselves, well, if you get rid of the guitar many songs are not that impressive and many of them pretty basic. I don't expect anyone to agree with that, but try and make a test.
Get rid of the guitar in MFN, BIA, R&J, etc, and you'll see, the songs are not THAT special. All the flavour and all the magic came from his fingers.

His solo work is way more elaborated, more complex, songwriting, arrangements, everything is on another level. Except his guitar playing.

I agree. Although, Love Over Gold probably has some of his most advanced work in terms of musical complexity. Certainly, a lot of the early Dire Straits was quite simple music that was elevated by his guitar playing and Pick’s drumming. I remember someone doing Sultans in a karaoke bar years ago. The karaoke version had none of the guitar licks, just the backing chords. It struck me how plain the song was without the lead guitar lines.

Exactly,  SOS is another obvious example.
And I agree on PW's tasteful drumming, also regarding  LOG album which could almost be a movie soundtrack.

His solo songs, well most of them anyway, don't need this guitar exposure, you can get rid of the guitar and it will still be a song and it won't really lack anything.

Also I'd dare say he has now a real band, hence why his playing and the whole guitar hero factor is so expendable right now. It's obvious live, his bandmates have just as much exposure as him and he often could leave the stage and the songs could still go on. It was clearly not the case during DS era as the spotlight was always on MK and on MK alone.
My personal conclusion is that MK finally found a peace of mind, and I'm glad he's not the egotistical leader he once was anymore. The 96ers is MK's first real band IMHO while DS purely was a backing band and a vehicle for his surreal guitar abilities, nothing more.

[boriszhukov]

Also I'd dare say he has now a real band, hence why his playing and the whole guitar hero factor is so expendable right now. It's obvious live, his bandmates have just as much exposure as him and he often could leave the stage and the songs could still go on. It was clearly not the case during DS era as the spotlight was always on MK and on MK alone.
My personal conclusion is that MK finally found a peace of mind, and I'm glad he's not the egotistical leader he once was anymore. The 96ers is MK's first real band IMHO while DS purely was a backing band and a vehicle for his surreal guitar abilities, nothing more.

I agree very much with this. His music is also much more folk oriented today, whereas DS was almost exclusively rock /pop. Regarding DS being all about MK and his guitar playing it also seems to put a lot of pressure on him and grew bigger the more impressive his playing became. Just look at te two live albums for instance. His playing is insanely good, but its also all over the place. If you look at a concert from OES tour its almost one long solo from start to end. Maybe only with You latest Trick not being about the guitarsoloing.

I think he made a very brave move by dropping the "guitar hero" thing, since it opened up the doors for so many more posibilities in his songwriting.  Obviously some fans are disapointed with his current skills when playing SOS or TR. But honestly I dont think he really cares much about this. And im sure he is happy not having to keep up his technical skills  to the level he had in DS. The simply requires ALOT of repetetive and boring rehersing.

[Eddie Fox]

It's a tricky topic. In Portuguese we have this saying, what came first? The egg or the chicken? Does his current band have more room because they are better than Dire Straits or because Mark can no longer do what he did back in the day forcing the band to step up? In my opinion, a bit of both.

Mark's stated several times he's done with the guitar hero thing. It's comfortable for him to let the song breath through other instruments and take the back seat every now and then during long gigs. He didn't do it as much back during the DS run for two simple reasons. First because he loved being a guitar hero, that's a pretty obvious one I guess. The second one is a consequence of the first one: the line-up. From LOG onwards it gradually changed though. When we got to the OES tour DS was pretty much like Mark's current band, with Alan Clark, Paul Franklin, Chris White and Phil Palmer doing a lot of soloing. Even Chris Whitten and Danny Cummings had their moment to shine in Calling Elvis.

Going back to Alchemy, Telegraph Road was way more intense, complex and dynamic then than any version played by any line-up Mark's had in his solo career. And just for the record, Mark's music as a whole is far from complex, the arrangements might make it look like it is but in fact it isn't - which is a great thing. For instance, you can choose a pretty raw song like Where do You Think You're Going and make it sound grandiose if you want as well as you can make Speedway at Nazareth or Marbletown sound fairly simple. What I disagree the most with is to say his current band is better than any DS line-up when instruments, music style and Mark's approach are so hugely different now. Remember what Chuck Ainlay said about DS when he remixed Alchemy? Mark's always been surrounded by awesome musicians that served their purpose at each stage of his career.

To me the incoherence begins when someone (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, just to make it clear, just a general observation) claims that Alan Clark just played what Mark told him to in Telegraph Road but praises the current band for raising Mark's game.

[Love Expresso]

Remember what Chuck Ainlay said about DS when he remixed Alchemy?

No.

LE