DS on The Tube - again

[Jules]

I sent an e-mail to channel 4 with this answer:

Thank you for contacting Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries regarding DIRE STRAITS LIVE IN '85.

Unfortunately we have no plans to repeat this programme at present, however please be assured your request has been noted and logged with our scheduling department.

Also we don't automatically have the rights to release the programmes we broadcast on DVD and for those we do, as a rule we tend to choose titles to release that we feel will be financially viable. Unfortunately, this particular programme was not released through Channel 4 DVD or any other distributor that we are aware of.

As we are sure you can appreciate, we receive hundreds of requests for copies of programmes that were not released commercially, therefore, Channel 4's policy is that we do not provide one-off copies.   

I am sorry that we are unable to help with your request.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us here at Channel 4, we hope you continue to enjoy our programming.

[dmg]

I've always thought it really too bad that we never had an official release from DS at the peak of their popularity.  Commercially it would have been a great money maker at the time too even so shortly after Alchemy.  They could have just done a video with no album deal or something like that to make it a little different.

[twm]

Some TV companies will sell "non-broadcast" copies (that is, good quality copies but lower than broadcast standards) and some will not. Another problem is that, often, technology has moved on and the TV companies do not have the equipment required to play (and thus copy) their original recording witht he equipment they use currently. This can mean that, to make a copy, they would need to set up the required equipment specially and, even if they would sell a copy, it will be expensive. Of course, some TV companies will have transferred some of their old recordings to a digital format already but some will not have done this. Again, it is a question of cost, particualrly if they see little prospect of exploiting the digital copy commercially. And as the e-mail says, there is the question of rights to consider, too.

May I suggest, jbaent, that you get back to Channel 4 and ask if it is possible to obtain photocopies of their documents relating to this recording. Actually, I have no idea whether Channel 4 retains paper archives at all nor for how long but it's worth a shot. I know that the BBC keep reasonably good paper files, going back years, and I know that some researchers have been able to get copies from their files. There may be copies of letters, contracts, details of exactly what was recorded, releases for the broadcast of particular tracks and the like. The BBC probably does this because it is a public service broadcaster but Channel 4 is, legally, a public service broadcaster, too, though one that has a commercial income stream.  Obviously, you need to express great disappointment at their previous reply and ask if they can help with your research on the band.

The other possibility is that Channel 4 used an outside sub-contractor to make the recording, rather than it's own staff. If this is so and you can get their contact details, that is another route of enquiry.

[Jules]

I think its better that you (twm) or any of the british forumers do that, when you send a "Question" or "Request" you have to fill a formulary with a UK adresss, postal code etc. I obviously put a fake one, and I cant remember which, so if they track my questions, they will notice 

However, what about start a petition directed to the Channel 4 to try them to release the Wembley 85 in dvd?

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/create.html

Do you think that with the apropiate help of forumers and fans around the (ww)world we could get signs enough? How many of us are here, in facebook, etc etc?

Do you think it worths the try?

[dmg]

The Tube was a Tyne-Tees Television production for Channel 4 so perhaps we should look there.  Now known as ITV Tyne-Tees, they are the ITV company that cover the north east of England i.e. Newcastle.

A bit from Wikipedia:
"In 1979, Tyne Tees launched two national series, Alright Now and Check it Out, the latter a mix of rock music and segments on youth-oriented social issues; among performances by established acts, the two shows offered early exposure to bands linked to the North East, notably Dire Straits and The Police."

Anyone remember Supergran?  Thanks a lot TT-TV!

[twm]

The most important thing first: yes, of course I remember Supergran, though I probably remember Iain Cuthbertson as The Scunner more than Supergran herself, though I can just about picture her in my mind. My eldest loved the programme. The Scunner was the nickname of the baddie in this children's series.

For those overseas (and many south of the England-Scotland border, too), "scunner" is one of those truly wonderful Scots words, referring to anyone or anything that really disgusts you. So, a mother might refer to a child who has done some terrible deed as a "wee scunner"; similarly, someone who had an unfortunate experience with, for example, Thai food, might say, "I took a right scunner to that Thai food". So, just from his nickname, you can gather that The scunner was the object of loathing and disgust, though in a slightly comedic way in this instance. It was a Children's programme, after all.. I'm not sure if "scunner" is a word used throughout Scotland or just in the West of Scotland.

Moving now to DS and the programme in question. I'm afraid I'm not the person for this task. This is not because I lack the chutzpah (I've done it in the case of a Dylan TV programme and that was from one side of the Atlantic Ocean to the other) but because I am not much of a DS fan, as I have said before.

Maybe there is someone over here who would be prepared to try.

Finally, the petition. I doubt it would have a positive effect but anything is worth a try.

[herlock]

I guess that whether or not Wembley'85, arguably the most wanted and acclaimed DS concert, will be released on DVD/Blu-Ray, depends on two key questions:

1/Would this be a commercial success ? To answer this question, we need to know whether or not the 2010 Alchemy release was a commercial success. Unfortunately I seriously doubt it. On Amazon.com, Alchemy is nowhere near the top charts. And this was considered the "seminal" live recording (even if DMG calls it overrated :p), so I seriously doubt that Wembley would do better commercially... Does anybody has some serious sales figures for Alchemy ?

2/Would Mark ok it ? Again I seriously doubt it, for several reasons. First, Mark does not give a damn about the past, we all know this; second, he must now be rather angry with Alan Clark, with all the controversies with "The Straits", and would certainly not favour a recording that would put M. Clark in the light again; third, the musical style of Wembley'85 is not close to Mark's current style. These overdriven drums and guitar, these overused synth, these long breaks... all things that Mark is probably kind of ashamed of nowadays, something like "I did so many stupidities when I was young, and I was dressed like a pig, moreover" Somehow Alchemy, with less artificial overdrive and synth, its more "raw" feeling, is closer to what Mark is doing now, and maybe that's why he ok'ed it. Even the dress code is a bit less outdated (the red jacket and shoes, the famous "arrows" T-shirt, all this is -a bit- less ridiculous that this "80s" sleeveless blue shirt and these strange pants

What do you guys think ?

[Jackal]

Alchemy did at least make sense in that it was an official production and release to begin with. I have no idea about sales figures, but I'm pretty sure it was mostly fans who bought it, hence sales figures can't be that high. The Wembley show should in my opinion attract even less attention, so why would anyone bother to release it? Mark doesn't care (neither for musical reasons nor financial reasons), the record company (who'd have get the rights to the show) doesn't care (unless they'd play the nostalgia game and go "remember 85? Remember your first CD? Remember that band? Relive it now! On DVD and Blu-ray, in surround sound!").

[herlock]

Well then we shall be contented with what we have...ok, to make you feel better, let's build our own official releases Wembley'85 alternatative:
- So Far Away is cool on Wembley, but it's not the best version (the Sydney 86 Calypso one is), so why not watching the one with Emmylou on the RLRR DVD ? Less energectic, but better voice blend, and nice strong finale
- Walk of Life is... well, I don't care You just got plenty of alternatives (On The Night, A Night In London, Chet Atkins & Friends)
- Private Investigations is really strong and nice on Wembley, but the On The Night version, while a bit less energetic, has a more hauting sound and extra sax.
- Sultans of Swing is fabulous on Wembley, but a lot prefer Alchemy, for the stronger sound and the lack of sax; if you can't live without sax, buy the Live Aid 4-DVD pack; this version is not as good as Wembley (I guess they were more nervous and couldn't soundcheck properly), but still quite kick-ass.
- Why Worry is really nice on Wembley, with strong piano playing from Alan; however some find the backing vocals (John, Chris, Guy and Jack) incredibly cheesy. Why not cheking out the version of the Chet Atkins & friends DVD with the Everly brothers ? a bit cheesy synth, but such a great voice blend; if you can't do without Mark's voice, the soft version with Emmylou on the RLRR DVD is quite nice; if this is too soft for you, you can still try to find the 2009 Hurlingham version with flute on i-concerts ("An evening with MK"), wonderful too.
- Brothers is Arms is really strong and powerful on Wembley; the On the Night version is unfortunately less powerful, but somehow more breathtaking, a really killer one as well.
- Money for Nothing is super powerful on Wembley; but the vocal intro is controversial... if you can't leave without it, see Live Aid (with Sting unfortunately even more out of tune than Jack Sonni on Wembley); but if you can, check out the Montserrat DVD version with Eric Clapton: the most powerful ever !
- Solid Rock is powerful on Wembley, but the On The Night version is ever better, for once on this DVD they have great fun on stage !
- Going Home with Henk B. Marvin is quite unique on Wembley; but some find it a bit too fast, and the Alchemy version a bit more natural and touching.
- Tunnel of Love is... well, better than Alchelmy, as said before; does not mean that Alchemy is bad, though, it is still quite a masterpiece.
- The same can be said of Expresso Love.
- The Man's too strong.... well, no alternative for this one. Too bad, it is really cool. But hey, that's the only one.

So it's not as if we don't have killer versions of almost everything on video, folks; and we've got OUATITW and Telegraph Road on Alchemy, which are among the best ever; and we've got plenty of versions of RAJ, with or without sax; and we've got Your laster trick on the On the Night DVD, plus 5 songs from the On Every Street Album; and we've got DTTW and WDYTYRG, plus Les Boys and the unreleased Making Movies Song, on the BBC Arena fabulous documentary; and we've got a high-quality version of TOL in the Old Grey Whiste Test in 1980...

So, as far as DS is concerned, we are not in dire straits (ah, ah). As far as Mark's solo career is concerned, this is different. We've got Golden Heart pretty well covered, we've got a killer version of Speedway on the RLRR DVD, we've got a killer version of WAM from 2002 on itunes, we've got nice unique stuff from the ATTR album (think of I Dug A Diamond), but.... it is a real crime to have no recent gem, like Hill Farmer Blues, Marbletown, Coyote, Border Reiver, Piper to the End.... and What It is !

Well, I guess this is what it is... (ah ah again)



 

[Jules]

I knew it...

 

[Hoops McCann]

Wembley 85 is owned by Channel 4 not the BBC

Whatever it is, the BBC4 documentary "MK - a life in songs" is showing some excerpts of Wembley 85, so they get have access to it... And release it on blu ray ! Maybe even with the missing tracks like RATR, of they find the Original tapes before mixing, unlike what they did for alchemy...

The entire broadcast is on Youtube though. If all they needed was 30 seconds of footage, they could have just downloaded it from Youtube and converted it. The BBC contacted AMIT to use a photo of MK on our site in the documentary, so that doesn't really say much for the BBC's archive.   (No offense to the BBC.)

[herlock]

The entire broadcast is on Youtube though. If all they needed was 30 seconds of footage, they could have just downloaded it from Youtube and converted it. The BBC contacted AMIT to use a photo of MK on our site in the documentary, so that doesn't really say much for the BBC's archive.   (No offense to the BBC.)

The video & sound quality on the documentary seemed very good though, better than my video bootleg of Wembley'85.
This bootleg would be enough for me... if Tunnel of Love and Solid Rock had been broadcasted on radio with FM quality (the one that was used for the song of the other songs). TOL sound taken from 1986 TV is quite bad, it also changes pace and tune half-way through... so thinking that somewhere in the vault taking dust you have the full concert in great quality makes me sick to my stomach. Anwyay...

[twm]

Dan, I did a response to two of Herlock's postings (#66 and #68) and, even though it wasn't that long, it seems to have disappeared into the aether.

As for the BBC archive, they have kept the paper documents that relate to their own broadcasts and a wide range of actual radio and television broadcasts. As for photographs, the BBC used to own the Hulton photo archive but that got sold, quite a few years back, to Getty Images. This was at a time when Getty, realising what was happening with digitisation and the way the wind was beginning to blow, were buying up a number of photographic archives in order to continue to be a major player in the "new photo archiving world". Another example was their purchase of Archive Photographs, a company based in NYC but with, as I recall, a facility in New Jersey - your neck of the woods, Dan - although it may be that Archive Photos moved to a Getty facility in New Jersey. Anyway, may be the BBC does not have access to a particular photo or to a suitable photo from a particular period or particular event. It is also possible that, although the programme is being made for the BBC, it is actually being made by an outside company. What did they tell you when they made the request?

Incidentally, I was approached earlier this year by the "History Detectives" people (working for PBS-TV) who are doing something on Dylan and were seeking a particular, brief video clip. It is the way things are done.

[herlock]

Hi TWM,
Could you send me your posts by PM, waiting for the technical problem to be solved ?
Thanks and cheers

[vgonis]

jbaent, if you start something I will back you up! Unfortunately I am in Greece, so I can not initiate things. I believe that some things are worth doing, just to see what will happen. So carry on and let me know if there is anything I can help you with.