DS on The Tube - again

[boboDS]

Well... actually some people say Sydney'86 is the best, and I totally disagree; I find it much less attractive than Wembley'85. The guitar tone is strange, and Mark does so many variations in the end solo that you really wonder what he is aiming at; I prefer Alchemy, more straightforward. And the intro in Alchemy is longer, with that nice saxophone by Mel Collins, instead of starting abruptly with the (overdriven to death) drums in Wembley; but one thing I think Wembley wins over Alchemy is the touching ambiant track (probably gu's synth) which is nicely blending with Alan's piano, just before Mark talks about the spanish city and stuff; no such ambiant track in Alchemy (Guy was not there !), which sounds a bit dry and less emotional in comparison. What do you think ?

Have to listen to Sydney, heard it a long time ago.
I like the "abrupt" start of the intro, they used to do it also in earlier 1983 shows. But here the damned electronic drums are not very good (frankly put terrible imho ). It looks to me that it was one of those mainstream 80ties things that also Terry started using. The Solid Rock intro is similarly ruined. (But still Terry is da man.) It reminds me of Alan White from Yes, who had the same overdriven sound in 1984 and later.

Yeah, the synth is very good. The reason it's not on aLchemy is that Tommy Mandel was probably jumping his ass off even during that part of the song  

[boboDS]

Why MM tour over Alchemy?  Well, BIA versions are just perfect for me but if I want a stripped down version then MM tour versions will do very nicely.  Alchemy is neither one thing or the other;  not quite right and massively overrated.

Say whaaaaat?? You're right dmg, is neither one thing or the other, aLCHEMY is THE thing! 

[dmg]

Oh deary me, I thought I might put a few noses out of joint with that.

I still don't find myself listening to '82-'83 versions very often though.  '85 versions rule!

You want a simpler, shorter version, then why not go all out and grab a version from '80-'81?

[herlock]

Oh deary me, I thought I might put a few noses out of joint with that.

I still don't find myself listening to '82-'83 versions very often though.  '85 versions rule!

You want a simpler, shorter version, then why not go all out and grab a version from '80-'81?

Actually, I don't like the 80-81 versions very much; reason being, they don't add much to the (actually very good) studio version (the same almost note by note), while having a weak guitar sound, weaker than the studio... For me, a live version has to reinvent the song to be interesting compared to the studio version; if live is just "less-than-perfect studio plus audience noise", what's the point ? I like very much the bonus track from Old Grey Whistle test on the Alchemy album, but, more out of historical curiosity, to see Mark play the Hammond organ, rather than for a true musical orgams; I find the alchemy version to be significantly better in that respect; and although I think, as I said, that Wembley 85 is slightly better than Alchemy, I do like the stronger (less overdriven, "purer"') guitar sound of 82-83 rather than the one of 85; again matter of taste, I can fully understand that you feel that 85 versions are better than 83 ones, but dismissing Alchemy as "massively overated" is not fair IMHO

[herlock]

But here the damned electronic drums are not very good (frankly put terrible imho ). It looks to me that it was one of those mainstream 80ties things that also Terry started using. The Solid Rock intro is similarly ruined. (But still Terry is da man.) It reminds me of Alan White from Yes, who had the same overdriven sound in 1984 and later.
Yeah, the synth is very good. The reason it's not on aLchemy is that Tommy Mandel was probably jumping his ass off even during that part of the song  

Yeah, the overdriven drums are a shame, a mandatory gimmick for the mid-80s, that at least Alchemy does not suffer from. Alchemy aged better than Wembley in this respect, maybe this is why Mark ok'ed it rather than Wembley, fits better with his "purer" current sound.
As for Tommy Mandel, you might be quite right I personnally think that Guy Fletcher designed a whole new sound when he joined DS, for the best (ambiant tracks) and the worse (overuse of keyboards on sultans, for instance). Guy's influence was reduced considerably for the subsequent OES tour (much less synth, but... more pedal steel, not my cup of tea).

[ds1984]

Don't forget that the Wembley recording is not owned nor it has been recorded by Mercury. Alchemy was a record company product(ion) thus the reason it was choosen to be released as a DVD and BD.

It could have been done as a full concert release but it was made with little input from Mark on that point.

[herlock]

Don't forget that the Wembley recording is not owned nor it has been recorded by Mercury. Alchemy was a record company product(ion) thus the reason it was choosen to be released as a DVD and BD.

It could have been done as a full concert release but it was made with little input from Mark on that point.

Sure, but the Wembley recording is own by BBC, and it seems that the relationships between the BBC and Mark's management are quite good: the bonus tracks (Arena documentary, Old Grey Whiste test) on the Alchemy DVD are BBC programs, as well as the "Live at the BBC album"; certainly a deal could be done, should Mark have the will to release it... any hope ?

[dmg]

Sure, but the Wembley recording is own by BBC, and it seems that the relationships between the BBC and Mark's management are quite good: the bonus tracks (Arena documentary, Old Grey Whiste test) on the Alchemy DVD are BBC programs, as well as the "Live at the BBC album"; certainly a deal could be done, should Mark have the will to release it... any hope ?
[/quote]

It sure would be great to have the full concert.  It's never been available before, even in audio.

[Jules]

Should we start an e-mail campaign to the BBC?

:-)

[ds1984]

Wembley 85 is owned by Channel 4 not the BBC

[herlock]

Wembley 85 is owned by Channel 4 not the BBC

Whatever it is, the BBC4 documentary "MK - a life in songs" is showing some excerpts of Wembley 85, so they get have access to it... And release it on blu ray ! Maybe even with the missing tracks like RATR, of they find the Original tapes before mixing, unlike what they did for alchemy...

[Jules]

So I guess it has to be an initiative from the channel (Channel 4 in this case) to release it, or to re-broadcast it in his integrity... Isnt it?

Any idea to start a campaign to promove it?

[Jules]

Look what I

[twm]

I hope this street view comes out:



You may have to "cut and paste" it but, if it comes up with the map, click the picture of the pub on the left and you should get the street view.

If you can get the link, the structure to the right of the pub, which leads to the building behind the pub, is the origin of the name "The Tube". The building is part of the old Tyne Tees Television set-up. The "Egypt Cottage" itself is the pub they used to drink in. Pan left  (or move further down the street in that direction) and you'll see the main Tyne Tees Television building. All those TT-TV buildings are gone now.

The street is called City Road and further along is the Travelodge hotel I met some DS/MK fans in, prior to an MK show at City Hall a few years back.

[ds1984]

So I guess it has to be an initiative from the channel (Channel 4 in this case) to release it, or to re-broadcast it in his integrity... Isnt it?

Any idea to start a campaign to promove it?

A rebroadcast would be great but it depends of the contractual clause. You can own the tape but not the right to make new airplay after initial one, especially for concert recording.