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Author Topic: MK sings What a wonderful world  (Read 29890 times)

Offlinetwm

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Re: MK sings What a wonderful world
« Reply #60 on: April 17, 2012, 01:29:16 AM »
Thanks for the outsideshore link. Some of it is beyond my comprehension but there's great stuff there.

OfflineJF

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Re: MK sings What a wonderful world
« Reply #61 on: April 17, 2012, 02:07:26 PM »
For those interested in some of the history of jazz and theoretical aspects of the music, I can recommend this website that I found some years ago. Lots of good info, especially beneficial for musicians among us:

http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/

Thanks Jackal, really interesting site !

I like jazz (Armstrong, Parker, Davis, Reinhardt, Joe pass & Herb Ellis...) and also jazz-rock (Beck, Mick Taylor explored fusion on his 79 solo album, or when Santana played some Coltrane tunes...) but I'm not able to play this style, it's too hard.
My limited guitar style never go very far from the pentatonic blues scale.... :-[
I try, I try, but blues always come back ;D

Jackal

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Re: MK sings What a wonderful world
« Reply #62 on: April 17, 2012, 02:47:42 PM »
JF,

Yes, jazz is difficult. It takes a lot of knowledge and "feeling" to get it right. I have in no way mastered it,, but I feel I am able to make my playing at least a bit jazzier, if you know I mean. And having listened a lot to jazz now, I am able to hear pretty complicated chord progressions in my head.

As a starting point I would recommend you to play for example the C major scale with chords (C - Dm - Em - F - G - Am - Bdim - C).
Then learn to play it with four-tone chords: Cmaj7 - Dm7 - Em7 - Fmaj7 - G7 - Am7 - Bm7-5 ("half-diminished) - Cmaj7.
Then you play those chords as arpeggios (only the chord tones).
Then you play the modes that go with each chord (Cmaj7 - Ionian, Dm7 - Dorian, Em7 - Phrygian, etc.). There's a mode corresponding to each step of the scale as you can see.
Later, you could record a little thing in Am7. Four bars of Am7, four bars of D9. Put that on a loop, and play the A Dorian mode over that. Will sound pretty jazzy right away.

A little trick that I like to make things jazzy is to slide into the note I'm supposed to play from a half-step below. If I'm supposed to play C - D - E - F - E ... I would play C - D - D#/E - F - D#/E ... Listen to the sax players. They do it all the time. They approach the notes from a halfstep below or above. Using chromatic notes like that (notes that are not part of the scale), makes the smoother. Pentatonic scales are very UNsmooth :) and therefore fit for blues and rock. Jazz is kind of elegant and sophisticated, so you want your sound to be like that. Thick chords with many notes, chromatic runs, make it jazzy immediately.

I'm sure if you spend some time with that website, it will make it easier to know what's going on. It's not magic, but notes that are put together in a certain way that creates a certain sound. Very fascinating :)


OfflineJF

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Re: MK sings What a wonderful world
« Reply #63 on: April 17, 2012, 04:06:45 PM »
many thanks Jackal, I will try.
The problem is that I'm a bit lazy...and I can't spend much time on guitar... (you know  : wife, kids... ::))
So when I got, say 15 min free, I don't want to "study" guitar, just have fun  :)

when I was 11-15 years old, I first learned classical piano, with musical theory.

after 4 years, I stopped and started to play with a singer who only said the chords progressions to me.
Then, I discovered another way to play music, and forgot almost what I learned  :-[

around 17-18 years old I started to play guitar, alone, without teacher, and at this time I was listening to blues, blues, and sometimes blues  ;D. So the first licks I wanted to play were like the JL. hooker things, you know what I mean.
Then It was rock-country, riffs, lead licks and so on, yes all very UNsmooth ;D
in the mid-90's, my friend drummer made me discover prog-rock (genesis, yes, oldfield....) and I re-discovered something I've forgot : the melody.
Now, my daughter learn piano and musical theory, so I enjoy to re-learn what I forgot  :)

I always listen to jazz, and I know what you mean by saying "elegant and sophitiscated". Totally agree
Yes, the chromatic thing makes it smoother. I like to play the 5th augmented for example, or the "in-between" notes, not in the scale.

By the way, that's what make Mark's style so special : sometimes straight style, and sometimes smoother

I remember reading on MKnewsforum a thing like that :

"on 2 first DS albums, Mark play only pentatonic scales, but you don't hear pentatonic" :)

and of course, around LOG time, he inclued much jazz influences in his chords progressions, and scales.

Sometimes I'd like he'd play less chromatic licks, and more straight, UNsmooth licks  :)


as always, sorry for my poor and bad english, but I guess you understand what I mean ;)

Jackal

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Re: MK sings What a wonderful world
« Reply #64 on: April 17, 2012, 04:33:54 PM »
No problem. And sorry for writing the previoius post in a way that you sound like you don't how a clue. You obviously do, so I apologize if you felt I was speaking down to you. (Note to self - never assume anything.)

I'm not very advanced in my knowledge, and I too am pretty lazy, but it's really satisfying when you learn something theoretical and then put it into practice and you see it works! I have a friend who's an engineer. Very clever and he knows a bit of guitar. But he basically treats everything as mathematics, which in a sense it is. But what's the point of learning theory for theory's sake? It has to be applied, and I believe that makes people much more versatile musicians.

OfflineJF

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Re: MK sings What a wonderful world
« Reply #65 on: April 18, 2012, 08:39:48 AM »
No problem Jackal, I never thought you was speaking down to me  :)

I know that all people here on AMIT are all nice chaps, and post their knowledge with kindness  :)

I wrote a little mistake : when I said the 5th augmented, I meant the flattened 5th , e.g. the Bb when you play in the key of E.

About the relation between mathematics and musical theory , I totally agree.
Ingo says the same thing. He's a maths teacher and a musician, and I think it helps a lot.
(well, I made maths university studies too, so maybe my mind is a litlle bit too Cartesian).

But of course, you have to add feeling to the knowledge and technique, and it's always difficult to find the good "mixture"

I agree too, that spending time learning can really bring satisfaction.

That's why, when my girls return to school next week, I already planned to try your chords progression next tuesday  ;D
And I already planned to record and post a new tune : shorter, different from the previous one, something I (very modestly) "composed" 20 years ago...

I would enjoy to talk with you about music by hours and days , but I'm afraid it interests only 2 us.
I guess this thread is not the place to discuss about scales, keys and circle of fifths ?   ;)
Maybe should we start another thread in General discussion ?


best
JF

Jackal

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Re: MK sings What a wonderful world
« Reply #66 on: April 18, 2012, 08:53:16 AM »
 ;D Oh, the others should learn too hehehe

I'd be delighted to chat about music theory. We can certainly start a music theory thread. As a matter of fact, will do so right now.

Offlinesuperval99

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Re: MK sings What a wonderful world
« Reply #67 on: April 18, 2012, 09:29:50 AM »
Great!   Can we return to "What a Wonderful World" now?    ;D
Goin' into Tow Law....

Offlinetwm

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Re: MK sings What a wonderful world
« Reply #68 on: April 18, 2012, 10:44:54 PM »
What about the big guy from Hawaii, the one with the unpronounceable name, who mixed "Somewhere Over The Rainbow" with "What A Wonderful Wolrd"?  I can't recall much about it but it wasn't exactly a medley, more one song to the tune of another, as played on BBC Radio 4's non-quiz game, "I haven't A Clue"

Jackal

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Re: MK sings What a wonderful world
« Reply #69 on: April 18, 2012, 11:43:47 PM »
I'm sorry, twm, but I haven't a clue either  ;D


Jackal

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Re: MK sings What a wonderful world
« Reply #70 on: April 18, 2012, 11:46:52 PM »
Actually, I had a clue!

I just searhed YouTube for the two songtitles and found this:

 

Didn't know the guy's name, but I had definitely heard the song before. Sounds great. (Btw, saw the movie The Descendants with George Clooney recently. Lots of great Hawaiian music.)

Offlinetwm

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Re: MK sings What a wonderful world
« Reply #71 on: April 19, 2012, 02:08:21 AM »
That's the guy - "Iz" for short (Israel Kamakawiwo'ole for long). When was that? I just remember him looking a bit like a Sumo wrestler. Was it a hit or something? I can't even recall why I can remember anything about him or the song. Thanks for finding that.

Perhaps, for those who don't know, I should explain the "I Haven't A Clue" reference. This BBC Radio 4 programme is a long-running comedy quiz that is actually called, "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue". It describes itself as "an antidote to panel games" and consists of two teams, each of two comedians, given a series of tasks described as "silly things to do".  One of the "silly things" that crops up from time to time is to sing "one song to the the tune of another".  There are a couple of other musical "games". One is called "pick-up tune". A disc is played and the panellist has to start to sing along with it; then the record is faded out entirely but the panellist has to continue singing; after a period of time, the recording on the disc is faded back up again; the "winner" is the panellist who comes closest to keeping up with the recording.  Nothing in the show is serious, as you can gather.

Perhaps the most bizarre (and thus the most popular) "game" is one called "Mornington Crescent", taken from the name of a station on the London Tube system. Quite simply, the game has no rules whatsoever, other than each panellist in turn calling out the name of a London landmark (quite often the name of a street or a Tube station) until one says "Mornington Crescent". The first to say "Mornington Crescent" is the winner - except nobody really cares.  As there are no rules, there is disputation over whether a contribution is within the "rules", with obscure and strange-sounding "rules" being cited. Similarly, without rules, there are no real tactics, so, naturally, there is a fair amount of discussion about what particular strategems or tactics are being used in any particular instance. The whole point is that nobody understands the game but everyone pretends that they do - indeed, that they are experts in playing it.  

By now, anyone reading this posting who is not British will have arrived at the conclusion that we are indeed quite mad over here. To compound this, the programme must have been going for something like 40 years, has become something of an insitution and has won radio awards on quite a few occasions.  You can even buy recordings of some of the programmes commercially.

For years and years, the chairman was Humphrey Lytlleton, best known as a jazz trumpter with his own jazz band.  He adopted a very dry delivery of the script, which usually included puns, double entendre, sarcasm and (as mentioned in another thread) paraprosdokians.  The most frequent chairman since his sad death has been Jack Dee, a comedian who also has a very deadpan delivery.

What a weird and wonderful world it is! Is that where "www" comes from?

Offlinetrullols

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Re: MK sings What a wonderful world
« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2012, 08:48:07 AM »
"What a Wonderful World" ... ufff the master has returned. Amazing !!!

OfflineJF

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Re: MK sings What a wonderful world
« Reply #73 on: April 19, 2012, 09:06:16 AM »
twm, it seems to be a funny show, even I'm not english native.

In France we had a TV game called "kamoulox" by humorists Kad & Olivier.

 

A bit the same : noone understand the rules (as there isn't), but everyone pretend to win ! ;D

of course, all is 272e degree humor, a bit like Monty Pythons.
I like it very much  :)


OfflineJules

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So Long

 

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