Greece as a solution

[vgonis]

I have created  this in order to post interesting videos, about the crisis in Greece, and to comment on them. If you care to participate, I think it would be great, because Greece is not the problem but can be the solution.

This first video contains mixed English and Greek. But it really worths watching..

 

[vgonis]

This video is a snippet from a Greek TV station. It is in Greek, but from 1:30 on you will hear in English, young students  from FYROM (probably known to you as "Macedonia") what they are taught and what they believe. FYROM is a newly founded country. General Tito tried to establish an artificial national consciousness to many areas of Yugoslavia, in order to bring together the many different nationalities and beliefs, with stronger bond. "Re-constructed" history was used for the lower part of Yugoslavia, now known as "Macedonia" because it in deed, geographically, contained a small part of the land that used to be the ancient kingdom of Macedonia. (with the famous Alexander the Great) The publicity  and the loads of money spent for this propaganda (George Soros is involved, as well) proves that this is another orchestrated attack against Greece. (For those that read history, Hitler was one of the first to use propaganda in a "scientific"  way. At first you spread the new theories -it may concern people, nations, or territories- and little by little you either convince people that the message is true, or make them indifferent. And as the saying goes: For a bad thing to happen, it is enough that the good man does nothing. )

So the trouble with FYROM, that the public abroad fails to see, is that the issue of the name MAcedonia is just the beginning. What they teach these young kids from early on, is that their country is partly occupied! They claim that the whole region of ancient Macedonia (and then some more) is theirs and should be returned! Now, FYROM claims that a big part a Greece is theirs-including the geographic area Greeks call Macedonia-(and also a part that belongs to Bulgaria!) and a big part of Thessalia. Albanians claim Ipiros and Turkey claim Thracea. All these regions are 100% Greek with people speaking modern Greek, that is the only language in the world, descendant of the ancient Greek.Alexandr the Great was speaking Greek (had Aristotle as teacher) and considered the rest of the cities-countries as allies and brothers, since they shared the same line of thought, language, beliefs, religion, traditions and so on. The saying "Pas mi Ellin varvaros" (The one not Greek , is barbarian-actually here the barbarian has the meaning stranger), was so deeply rooted in their conscience, that in the ancient Olympic games, they never accepted others than Greeks. And the ancient Macedonians were participating, all the time!
FYROM, being a small and new country, is in need of historical roots in order to sustain. But it is really a shame trying to rip off the history of another nation and re-write it. These people speak a Bulgarian dialect, their monuments are either the remains of other civilizations or strongly reminiscent of the art of Slavs. Because in fact they are Slavs, a group of people that came in this Balkan region, in the 7th century after Christ!  
I would be glad if they really wanted to be Macedonians, but that would mean that they would accept to be first and  foremost Greeks.      

[Pottel]

any macedonians on this forum? i know we have some bulgarian and albanian, but not sure if we have macedonian people on board.

[vgonis]

http://www.1millionsignatures.eu/?a=en

This is a petition about the Greek debt. Please take a minute to read and if you wish to sign it. Thank you.

[GennT]

I'm an Albanian from Kosovo. I understand the problems that Greece is facing, because we're having similar (maybe worse) problems here in Prishtina as well. Corrupted governments, greedy politicians, being isolated because of travel visas, 50% unemployment rate, 45% of the people living with less than 2 dollars per day, 18% living with less than 1 dollar, neo-liberal privatization of public companies, manipulated elections...etc etc I could go on and on man. I think this is more of a global problem. We need a complete change. If you haven't already seen the http://zeitgeistmovie.com/ documentaries, I'd highly recommend them to anyone.

I don't really have the time to be active that much here but I do read all the threads and I like  all the interesting discussions you people make here. But, I don't want to have a political debate in a MK forum. Music is something that makes me believe that there still are great things in this world, worth living for and experiencing. I think it's a way to step out of the bad and unjust reality, to simply feel better and happier for at least a little while. 

[Love Expresso]

I don't want to have a political debate in a MK forum. 

I agree wholeheartedly. I appreciated the first Europe thread from some time ago (and it's still running) and I know for its importance for some of our members, but since then we have some more Greece stuff going on, this thread here for example,  and I think it is quite boring - not generally - but in this forum. But as long as it gets any postings it seems there is some interest in the audience so I don't have to say anything against it, just ignore it to be honest.
 
LE

[Pottel]

i agree LE.
let'S focus these threads in one side of the forum. maybe a "daily shit we go through" or something.
i would really like to refrain from opening a new subforum about politics etc. so it has to be a bit more "laidback"

[Justme]

M'kay, so what about a "daily shit we go through" sub-forum?

 

BTW, to end this post on a positive note:

This very morning BBC2 played this:

It was nice.
 

[vgonis]

It is impossible to enjoy some things in life, namely the music and other art forms, when you are in the brink of destruction, or you are already out on the street looking for food. (There is a saying :"A hungry bear, will not dance")And when you see some things, first hand, you feel obliged to warn your friends or people with common interests, or just people that luck and circumstances brought in your way. I try hard to find both the time and money to keep this contact with the world. I really don't think that in 5-6 months time I will be able to afford an internet connection. You think that this can never happen to you, but since the crisis came to the "civilized" world, it is only a matter of time to hear the knock on your door. Because man is not an island...

An escape from reality is what everybody wants, and it is any body's right to pursue it. I just prefer to change the reality. Yet I succumb to the tempting escape from reality, even though this means accepting it in a way,  in order to keep my sanity with the beautiful things that prove that life worths living, as GennT so rightly mentions.  (Yes, I have seen all the zeitgeist films) I guess sharing comments about a musician, that we all love, in a way reveals parts of our character that we usually don't intent to reveal. We get to know each other, even behind pseudonyms,  or at least create this false impression. That is why, I though sharing some facts about a country so small, that  it is surprising it has become the center of attention or the reason the global economy is in turmoil, is going to help any of you out there peep at the future and not allow it to become your future. But of course saying that you don't like to see this reality, and closing your eyes, won't make the problem go away. African, Asian and south American countries have been living this nightmare, because of this attitude, for many many years. But I guess it is not a matter of opinion anymore, but a way of life.

Politics is such a ragged term, that we toss aside because it has become filthy. But in reality, every move we make in our lives, is in a way a political move or the result-reaction to a political move. From every penny we spend for the music we listen to, the food we eat and the air we breath (to paraphrase Police's song) they all have to do with politics.

...I think it is quite boring - not generally - but in this forum. But as long as it gets any postings it seems there is some interest in the audience so I don't have to say anything against it, just ignore it to be honest.

No comment. (Or maybe pointing out that I make no comment, is in fact a comment itself. LE, I am really sorry for picking your words and perhaps making you feel bad. No such intention, I know you meant well. Just making a point)

Just me: What I coincidence!  I was working at home the day before yesterday, listening to the best of Frankie Valli. It was song no.3 in the compilation!  I guess that doesn't count as an escape from reality, just smoothing the edges...

[Love Expresso]

There are many other media around me in my daily life, not just AMIT as such, and these other media are transporting theme no. 1 to me for about more than 12 months now. It is not that I am an ignorant bastard you see, it is just that I WANT to be an ignorant bastard around AMIT when it's not about Mark. Or Bruce.

LE

[vgonis]

But my dear LE, that is exactly my point. I have come to the point where this every day, But EVERY DAY reality, has come to affect all the Greeks, including me, in such a degree that even  the simple pleasures, such as music, or writing to a forum for your favorite artist, are tainted. If you think that spending all this time writing here is just an act of politics or fanaticism, well it is not. Maybe I should change my way, and do it with a coating of humor. But it is hard. Because for you is just a piece of information in the 9 o'clock news, for Greeks it is our every day life.  I get your point (I don't like the word bastard you use, though  ) but I never included any such political "comments" at the purely MK threads. Or Bruce's. 

[Justme]

I'm so fed up with 'the' media these days. In Germany there exists a website called nachdenkseiten.de
Its mission is to aggregate all relevant news items in order to comment these news and to demonstrate that there isn't one noteworthy sceptical organ available any more.

VGONIS2002 ("it is only a matter of time to hear the knock on your door"), I'm absolutely sure, that in five or ten years time the whole E U is going to collapse. The side effects to this, I'm not going to elaborate, because I don't want to discuss politics any further. But I sincerely appreciate your reports from Greece and keep my fingers crossed that very soon your situation will be brightened up.

[Fletch]

VG, I have very much appreciated your thoughts and links. As my original question in 'Europe' suggests I was keen to know the vibe of different people over there because all we hear in Australia is how disaster is looming and yet life goes on as normal (I am lucky to have an ok job).

I think it is ESPECIALLY interesting to hear political news and thoughts on this forum because (without bias) Knopfler fans MUST be smarter than the average citizen - that's just indisputable!

[Banjo99uk]

I dont see why we cant discuss asides in a MK forum, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the reason we are all here and everyone remains civilised. Why have a general discussion area? As Fletch said, MK fans are good and clever people. Long may we have intelligent debates about anything and everything......... the other option is MKNEWS where most areas are out of bounds and some peoples heads seem stuck up there bottoms.

[vgonis]

A fact to be considered: Greece in 2009, had a debt (actually government bonds to pay) of 340 billion Euros. Today, March 2012, after the "haircut" of 120 billion and the terrible sacrifices of the middle and lower classes*, Greece owes 370 billion Euros!!!! 240 of the old debt and 130 of the new debt towards the IMF and EU and EU countries. The new policy in order to get the money, is to obey every little thing they dictate:
1.selling of everything public, at  really ridiculous prices
2.Firing many people from the public service (they have already started doing it)
3.Lowering the "cost" of private sector. They have cut the pay of all people in half and for the ones under 25, they have gone even further 70-75%!
4.They have forced elasticity conditions into the working laws, such as personal agreements between worker and owners, with out the safe net of a minimum wage or hours.  They said that they did this in order to create a new more attractive environment for investors and in order to have more jobs for the growing mass of unemployed, that officially reached 21%, but unofficially is around the 30%. These laws were passed little by little from December on. No change. Each day 1000 people lose their work.
5.They cut down or completely all the benefits, in either form of money or services,  for the incurable, the unemployed, the families with many kids and so on.
6.Greece is one of the most expensive countries in the world, both in wages related terms and in absolute numbers. Rents are through the roof, medical services are higher than anyone could afford, milk and bread are expensive and all products from global companies are sold higher than any other European country!

Now tell me what is wrong with this equation? Doing all these and still end up owing 10% more than when this whole thing started! And there are a lot worse to happen. In June all politicians claim that there would be a further cut in all wages! At the same time, they do nothing to lower the prices of food, while heavy taxation on all petrol has raised the price of gas in the stunning price of 1.8/liter and heating oil to 1.1/liter!!!! Many people that took loans to buy a house, have to keep paying with the original agreement, even though their pay check is halved!!!! They are going to lose their houses and all the payments they have made.
Every day they pass new laws that introduce new taxes. According to the "experts" a couple with two kids can live with 9000 a year. That includes housing, heating, clothing, feeding, education etc. It is said that in July, if the new government, after the elections of May, doesn't manage to pass the laws and enforce them and get the results, they (IMF, EU) will send appointed committees to do it themselves! There goes the sovereignty of Greece. And yes there are a lot more to follow. Imagine no possessions, no food and no life. Well, obviously some do imagine that.   

 *I mean the financially insecure, I don't really believe in classes in a communist way. And Marx didn't either.