Concert #33:2011.11.21, HMV Hammersmith Apollo, London, UK, # SPOILER AHEAD #

[vgonis]

I'm currently downloading a nice recording of Mark's set from Nov 21st.

I came here to post the link but having had to start my Sunday reading yet more Bob bashing above made me decide not to bother.

Arabia, maybe I wasn't ironic enough or haven't used enough smiling/laughing faces to prove I was joking. But I guess you only tease us, yourself. Anyway, I find it very youthful to have all this blind belief in our heroes (too bad it is only music heroes and not the ones that actually can bring social change), but the triviality of it is proof enough.

[superval99]

I have downloaded most of the concerts on which Bob and Mark played together and I am working through listening to them all, yes, right to the end and enjoying them tremendously, so I'm not Bob bashing at all, but I think I should be allowed to say that, personally, I don't enjoy Bob's harmonica, without upsetting anyone! 

twm, I have never doubted Mark's judgement in joining Bob on his tour.   Bob is his hero and it was plain for all to see on "Forever Young"!    I never ever thought MK joining the tour was financial - I'm absolutely sure Mark did it entirely for the honour of playing with Bob.  BTW In 15 years time, MK will be 77, so not really a fair comparison with Bob, who is (only) 70 yrs! 

[vgonis]

I have downloaded most of the concerts on which Bob and Mark played together and I am working through listening to them all, yes, right to the end and enjoying them tremendously, so I'm not Bob bashing at all, but I think I should be allowed to say that, personally, I don't enjoy Bob's harmonica, without upsetting anyone! 

twm, I have never doubted Mark's judgement in joining Bob on his tour.   Bob is his hero and it was plain for all to see on "Forever Young"!    I never ever thought MK joining the tour was financial - I'm absolutely sure Mark did it entirely for the honour of playing with Bob.  BTW In 15 years time, MK will be 77, so not really a fair comparison with Bob, who is (only) 70 yrs! 

Superval, you got a point there! MK made it,  on the heavy side of his third decade in this world, while BD wasn't even 20! So that goes to show that he didn't have time to practice enough! And starting early he now can enjoy 50 years in the music making business. I could make some more jokes but apart from being morbid, I might be misunderstood! It is Sunday after all and the weather is sunny, yet too chilly (maybe the jokes...)

[Love Expresso]

Funnily, I had the same thoughts last night: If Bob is coming (to Germany) again next year, I will attend his show. I really would love to see them both together once more, even a double bill tour like this one would be appreciated by me. Well, Mark is probably touring again, hopefully already in 2012, so that will be no problem.

I understand Arabia, I followed his posts and think of him as a person that seems to be very objective and with a sensitive musical judgement, I think he was one of the first "immigrants" from ER, and one of the few ones who has stayed with us, even more, has been convinced by MK and sees himself as added to the fanbase (as stated at Guy's forum  ! ). So a Dylan fan that has become convinced by Mark, and that is a very nice situation! But Arabia, you should not take these "bashing" posts too serious, we are having fun with the ER Mark bashing as well.

And about the harmonica solo on Forever Young: It IS great, you can see how Bob really decides live on stage to do it, he gives a sign to the pedal steel man, can't remember his name, to bridge the seconds until he is ready, and then another signal to Mr. Garnier that he is ready to play the solo then...
Great video, one of the best live videos really I have ever seen. And as Dusty, I am so proud of Mark that he did it unmistakably as only MK would do it, using the situation to sum the whole tour up with just one little gesture.

I never bashed Bob because I always liked him and was looking forward to this tour from the beginning, so please Arabia, take it in perspective, AMIT is an MK forum after all, be patient with us! 

LE

[DIFFICULTTOBELIEVE]

Mark was a support act but he toured like the main act he is. Fancy buses, jets, best hotels. His normal sized band of top musos, all needing paid.. lots of days off with no shows being played/money being earned.  He didn't do this for the money, he did it for the honour. For all we know Mark may have lost money on this one, but I'm sure he wouldn't care if he did.

[arabia]

I'm not too bothered,after all I did provide about 8 links to MK Hammersmith torrents after I wrote in this thread, I just chose to do so in Torrents section, not here.

I think any implication that my birthday encore was NOT flawless will be unwelcome by me

[twm]

Forgive me if I gave the impression that I thought you were "bashing" Dylan but you can't expect to make a comment about "a king with no clothes" without some kind of response from the Dylan side of this exchange. Unless, of course, you subscribe to the view that, on-stage, Dylan is artistically naked, exposing his thoughts and feelings to open scrutiny by his audience?

As for the harmonica solo being "lousy", well....  I agree with the comments about it being a spontaneous decision (all the signs were there as described) and I wish Mark were a bit more spontaneous in his live act.  They could learn from one another. But lousy?

As for practicing, do you really imagine that Dylan "practices" in the way you suggest (however much humour you invested in the comment)? I have heard (both live and on disc) some simply beautiful harp solos from that man. That wasn't one of them (and this tour has generally seen a more blasting approach to his harmonica than I generally like) but it certainly wasn't "lousy".  Have you ever seen Little Walter live? Or Sonny Boy Williamson II ? I've seen them both.  That kind of harp playing is not unknown in r'n'b and a lot of Dylan's numbers on this tour were out-and-out 12-bar rocking blues (too much of the show, in my opinion, but that's another story) and Dylan's harp playing was appropriate to that style of music.

I found that final song on the third night in Hammersmith a very fitting and very memorable end to the tour, displaying the strengths of both men and really rousing the audience in both factions, which is what "Forever Young" was all about. The two of them did the job well and the mutual acknowledgement (one for the other and vice versa) was the icing on the cake. Carping about the harmonica solo ...  well, its your opinion and you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I wouldn't wish in any way to deny your right to express it, but it was far from appropriate for a great moment in all my many years of concert-going.

And to arabia: please be generous of spirit and let everyone who downloads torrents (and I'm not one of those) hear what you've got. It would be an appropriate gesture in the circumstances.

Finally, I have never in all my days signed up for the ER discussion group(s). I have visited once in a while but do not hold it/them in very high regard, I'm afraid - too much childish humour, too much vituperation, too many smart-arse comments, too many opinions that I regard as simply pathetic, too many posts that should never have been sent, too much content that simply wastes "my precious time" and so on. There are occasionally threads there worth following but I doubt I find more than 20% of those of real interest. In contrast, I have found AMIT a more friendly site, although I can only speak of these Knopfler/Dylan threads and not even all of these.

[superval99]

Forgive me if I gave the impression that I thought you were "bashing" Dylan but you can't expect to make a comment about "a king with no clothes" without some kind of response from the Dylan side of this exchange. Unless, of course, you subscribe to the view that, on-stage, Dylan is artistically naked, exposing his thoughts and feelings to open scrutiny by his audience?

You mean you don't know the story of "The King's New Clothes"?     

[twm]

Of course I know the story of the king's new clothes. I am also familiar with the Danny Kaye song, that was a hit when I was young.

There was a Saturdy morning request programme on the BBC Light Programme. It was called "Children's Favourites" and was introduced by Uncle Mac with the words, "Hello children, everywhere". Danny Kaye used to be played quite often, not only the song in question but the likes of "The Ugly Duckling" and (I think it was him) "Wonderful, Wonderful Copenhagen".  I can't recall all the titles but there were songs about Sparky's magic piano, a pink toothbrush and the three billy goats gruff. There was "The Laughing Policeman". Burl Ives introduced me to some American folk songs, and Harry Belafonte, too. There was Spike Jones occasionally.  Not exactly cutting edge stuff but I enjoyed it.

[superval99]

Of course I know the story of the king's new clothes. I am also familiar with the Danny Kaye song, that was a hit when I was young.

There was a Saturdy morning request programme on the BBC Light Programme. It was called "Children's Favourites" and was introduced by Uncle Mac with the words, "Hello children, everywhere". Danny Kaye used to be played quite often, not only the song in question but the likes of "The Ugly Duckling" and (I think it was him) "Wonderful, Wonderful Copenhagen".  I can't recall all the titles but there were songs about Sparky's magic piano, a pink toothbrush and the three billy goats gruff. There was "The Laughing Policeman". Burl Ives introduced me to some American folk songs, and Harry Belafonte, too. There was Spike Jones occasionally.  Not exactly cutting edge stuff but I enjoyed it.

LOL twm!   I think you and I must be of a certain age!   I remember Uncle Mac very well!  I actually had a request played on the programme.  Unfortunately I didn't hear it, but my friends told me it was played!    Those were the days!   

[Pottel]

There's a gazillion recordings popping up, go to the link provided up on the site that you can find by copying and pasting the link in the grayish bar at the top next to the search functionality of this site, it is a great site, and well maintained.

[vgonis]

Forgive me if I gave the impression that I thought you were "bashing" Dylan but you can't expect to make a comment about "a king with no clothes" without some kind of response from the Dylan side of this exchange. Unless, of course, you subscribe to the view that, on-stage, Dylan is artistically naked, exposing his thoughts and feelings to open scrutiny by his audience?

As for the harmonica solo being "lousy", well....  I agree with the comments about it being a spontaneous decision (all the signs were there as described) and I wish Mark were a bit more spontaneous in his live act.  They could learn from one another. But lousy?

As for practicing, do you really imagine that Dylan "practices" in the way you suggest (however much humour you invested in the comment)? I have heard (both live and on disc) some simply beautiful harp solos from that man. That wasn't one of them (and this tour has generally seen a more blasting approach to his harmonica than I generally like) but it certainly wasn't "lousy".  Have you ever seen Little Walter live? Or Sonny Boy Williamson II ? I've seen them both.  That kind of harp playing is not unknown in r'n'b and a lot of Dylan's numbers on this tour were out-and-out 12-bar rocking blues (too much of the show, in my opinion, but that's another story) and Dylan's harp playing was appropriate to that style of music.

I found that final song on the third night in Hammersmith a very fitting and very memorable end to the tour, displaying the strengths of both men and really rousing the audience in both factions, which is what "Forever Young" was all about. The two of them did the job well and the mutual acknowledgement (one for the other and vice versa) was the icing on the cake. Carping about the harmonica solo ...  well, its your opinion and you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I wouldn't wish in any way to deny your right to express it, but it was far from appropriate for a great moment in all my many years of concert-going.

And to arabia: please be generous of spirit and let everyone who downloads torrents (and I'm not one of those) hear what you've got. It would be an appropriate gesture in the circumstances.

Finally, I have never in all my days signed up for the ER discussion group(s). I have visited once in a while but do not hold it/them in very high regard, I'm afraid - too much childish humour, too much vituperation, too many smart-arse comments, too many opinions that I regard as simply pathetic, too many posts that should never have been sent, too much content that simply wastes "my precious time" and so on. There are occasionally threads there worth following but I doubt I find more than 20% of those of real interest. In contrast, I have found AMIT a more friendly site, although I can only speak of these Knopfler/Dylan threads and not even all of these.

twm, I find your reply quite elaborate, meaning that you have indeed spent time reading all the replies. I am truly sorry that I have expressed my hurtful opinion. It certainly didn't come from Knopfler's side, only from me. And by the way, I am a Dylan follower as well. But lately I try to lose the fan (atic) attitude, because it is bad for the musician, bad for the audience and in fact it ends up being a waste of time for many people that come to listen to the music. That said, any opinion expressed is nothing but personal opinion, and I don't think that I should be mentioning it every time. Unfortunately, the written form of the replies are somehow misleading us. I write in a certain state of mind and when after a couple hours or days I get a reply, I really can't keep up because the original mood is gone and I also have to figure out the mood of the person who replies. So something playful, read days, after might give the impression of a serious statement, and vice versa.
Anyway, I have been writing jokingly about these matters, but sometimes you have to read between the lines. The "lousy harmonica" comment was obviously a joke, and should be read together with the rest of the comment to be understood.  I consider music as a serious part of my life, but certainly not life itself. It is after all a matter of taste and taking these comments so seriously is something that I really don't want. I try to use this jokingly approach for two reasons: to avoid such complications. The ones who agree get the joke-which is not insulting, and the ones that disagree can laugh for the lite-wit of the joke. Expressing an opinion is anyones prerogative, as you also mention, and I set the limits: where the public life of the artist ends and his private life begins. The second reason is that songs and "live" performances are by nature public, and the uniqueness of the experience can not be recorded. That is a thing I believe, and since I can only catch a glimpse from videos or recordings, I know I get only a third of the picture, so I should not be harsh.
And yes I still find Dylan's voice in the records way better that his live performances, and what's more even though I never consider his voice good, I find it to be the most fitting for his songs.       

[NicoMK]

Hi all,

May you be interested, I've made artwork for the Bob Dylan show of that day. It's available on DIME (see the various torrents for this show) or on the MK artwork website at : www.killtogetartwork.com.

I'll try to make some covers for the MK shows in the next weeks, but I need (spare) time! Don't hesitate to create some of your own and send them to me if you feel like it.

Cheers!

[arabia]

If the 2 Cam Forever Young wasn't enough for you here is the new 3 Cam version:
 

I believe he used Romeo's excellent recording and added clips from poupystar's video

[Fieneke2]

Jesus, MK has grown a HUGE belly during this tour...
LE

LOL!   Leave him alone, LE, he's gorgeous!        

Haha LE, I saw that little belly as well, BUT..........hhhmmmm I agree with Val, he is still gorgeous! 

Quote twm: