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Author Topic: Concert #14:2011.10.25, SAP Arena, Mannheim, DE, # SPOILER AHEAD #  (Read 53399 times)

OfflineBest Brown Baggies

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Re: Concert #14:2011.10.25, SAP Arena, Mannheim, DE, # SPOILER AHEAD #
« Reply #75 on: October 26, 2011, 03:13:42 PM »
Quote StraitJacket.

I'm pleased for all you guys that are getting to see Mark playing with Bob, I really am.
It boils my blood tho'. It should have been like that throughout the tour. It's another reason that I think people visiting the tour earlier on have been totally ripped off.
I've a real bitter taste in my mouth from all of this.
Sorry, but I can't help how I feel about it.

I AGREE!!!! >:( >:(
I can see why its turned out like this, but I can only afford the one show,
(Nottingham), and of course they only did their seperate shows.
I so wish, not that there's any guarantee, that I'd booked one of the London
shows, but of course, at the time of booking, they weren't even available.

Cheers. BBB

I was pretty sure that this tour needs some time to evolve, so I've booked tickets throughout the tour to see the start, middle parts and the end. To be honest, the tour start in Dublin was a bit of a disappointment. But Mannheim was much better. Let's see what's coming next until it all ends in London. I would expect the London shows to set the peaks of the tour...

If I had the dosh, I'd have done the exact same thing.

Cheers BBB
And a crowd of young boys they're fooling around in the corner
Drunk and dressed in their best brown baggies and their platform soles.

Offlineds1984

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Re: Concert #14:2011.10.25, SAP Arena, Mannheim, DE, # SPOILER AHEAD #
« Reply #76 on: October 26, 2011, 03:17:50 PM »
I was pretty sure that this tour needs some time to evolve, so I've booked tickets throughout the tour to see the start, middle parts and the end. To be honest, the tour start in Dublin was a bit of a disappointment. But Mannheim was much better. Let's see what's coming next until it all ends in London. I would expect the London shows to set the peaks of the tour...

And on this tour last shows won't be shorter than at the first ones so no reduced setlist.
And no early permanently dropped songs as well as it is usally the case on the regurlar tours.
Lucky londoners






The haters are those who write shit

Two weeks in Australia and Sydney striptease

Offlinemarky49

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Re: Concert #14:2011.10.25, SAP Arena, Mannheim, DE, # SPOILER AHEAD #
« Reply #77 on: October 26, 2011, 04:12:10 PM »
And on this tour last shows won't be shorter than at the first ones so no reduced setlist.
And no early permanently dropped songs as well as it is usally the case on the regurlar tours.
Lucky londoners

True. I'll be at all three London shows...let's wait and see.

Offlinesuperval99

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Re: Concert #14:2011.10.25, SAP Arena, Mannheim, DE, # SPOILER AHEAD #
« Reply #78 on: October 26, 2011, 04:57:50 PM »
Just listened to last night's recording and I am really amazed at how wonderful "Mississippi" and "John Brown" sound, especially Mark's guitar - he was fantastic!    Pity Bob had to spoil the second song "Don't Think Twice" because he is so out of tune - he should leave the guitar-playing to MK!"
Goin' into Tow Law....

OfflineJules

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Re: Concert #14:2011.10.25, SAP Arena, Mannheim, DE, # SPOILER AHEAD #
« Reply #79 on: October 26, 2011, 05:47:53 PM »
Just listened to last night's recording and I am really amazed at how wonderful "Mississippi" and "John Brown" sound, especially Mark's guitar - he was fantastic!    Pity Bob had to spoil the second song "Don't Think Twice" because he is so out of tune - he should leave the guitar-playing to MK!"

My God, while MK is doing a great solo, BD insisted in ruined it playing strange chords out of tune... I wonder why in heaven he bother to play guitar having MK there... a total waste that ruins the beauty that MK adds. If you are going to ruin it, dont ask MK to play with you... Holy Christ.
So Long

Offlinemarc96er

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Re: Concert #14:2011.10.25, SAP Arena, Mannheim, DE, # SPOILER AHEAD #
« Reply #80 on: October 26, 2011, 06:06:54 PM »
Quote
@Marc: is this the one I did?
http://marc96er.de/knopfler_dylan_mannheim_2011/mannheim14.jpg
...two men smiling at me!  ;)

Of course, only a former professional photographer can take such a perfect picture!  ;D

OfflineTally

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Re: Concert #14:2011.10.25, SAP Arena, Mannheim, DE, # SPOILER AHEAD #
« Reply #81 on: October 26, 2011, 06:17:57 PM »
Just listened to last night's recording and I am really amazed at how wonderful "Mississippi" and "John Brown" sound, especially Mark's guitar - he was fantastic!    Pity Bob had to spoil the second song "Don't Think Twice" because he is so out of tune - he should leave the guitar-playing to MK!"

My God, while MK is doing a great solo, BD insisted in ruined it playing strange chords out of tune... I wonder why in heaven he bother to play guitar having MK there... a total waste that ruins the beauty that MK adds. If you are going to ruin it, dont ask MK to play with you... Holy Christ.

With Bob on guitar, that band loses all balance since they suddenly have four guitarists, no piano, and no organ. I used to think that Bob's little solos could be quite fun (check out hiss Crossroads version with Clapton!), but this is completely unnecessary.

Offlinemarky49

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Re: Concert #14:2011.10.25, SAP Arena, Mannheim, DE, # SPOILER AHEAD #
« Reply #82 on: October 26, 2011, 06:27:41 PM »
Quote
@Marc: is this the one I did?
http://marc96er.de/knopfler_dylan_mannheim_2011/mannheim14.jpg
...two men smiling at me!  ;)

Of course, only a former professional photographer can take such a perfect picture!  ;D
Hard job, but had to be done...

Actually, between the two pictures are about 30 min, right?
Same camera, same people....but....;D


And, your request was to have the coaches and trucks depicted too....So...do you see the difference?  


Ok, ok. I shut up!  ;)

« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 07:20:03 PM by marky49 »

OfflineJules

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Re: Concert #14:2011.10.25, SAP Arena, Mannheim, DE, # SPOILER AHEAD #
« Reply #83 on: October 26, 2011, 07:46:36 PM »
Did you manage to make any picture of MK playing with Bob?
So Long

OfflineMr Young at Heart

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Re: Concert #14:2011.10.25, SAP Arena, Mannheim, DE, # SPOILER AHEAD #
« Reply #84 on: October 26, 2011, 09:09:50 PM »
Can anyobdy remember the song Mark did with Bob where Bob played his weird solo all over Mark's? Was it "Don't Think Twice" or "Things Have Changed"?

In Luxembourg he did it with "Baby Blue" and in Oberhausen he did it with "It Ain't Me Babe" !  Did it happen again in Mannheim?

Yes it did, but I can't remember which song... Since he didn't play the songs you mentioned, it was probably "Don't Think Twice"  ???

It was Don't Think Twice, yes.

OfflineMr Young at Heart

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Re: Concert #14:2011.10.25, SAP Arena, Mannheim, DE, # SPOILER AHEAD #
« Reply #85 on: October 26, 2011, 09:15:05 PM »
Just listened to last night's recording and I am really amazed at how wonderful "Mississippi" and "John Brown" sound, especially Mark's guitar - he was fantastic!    Pity Bob had to spoil the second song "Don't Think Twice" because he is so out of tune - he should leave the guitar-playing to MK!"

Agreed on the first part. Not on the last.

To my ears the contrast was a very special thing, I liked it. (And I'm not the only one...)

OfflineMr Young at Heart

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Re: Concert #14:2011.10.25, SAP Arena, Mannheim, DE, # SPOILER AHEAD #
« Reply #86 on: October 26, 2011, 09:15:45 PM »
On this tour, whether people here like it or not, Dylan is the headliner and Mark is the support act.  I don't say this is right or wrong and I don't say it as a judgement on their respective abilities, strengths or weaknesses. And I'm not passing an opinion. It is simply a statement of fact. That's how the tour came about and that's how it was set up.

It is to Mark's credit that he agreed to do the tour, knowing that he would be the support act when it is self-evident that he could headline any tour of his own.

Maybe, Mark's appearance in Dylan's set at Bournemouth was a trial to see how it would work out. If so, then it obviously went well enough for both of them to want to continue the arrangement and build on it.

Playing with Dylan is not straightforward. For a start, even though he's only done 14 shows so far and is mostly doing 14 songs a night, he has already included 42 different songs in his sets. Here they are, as compiled by John Baldwin, with the number of times each has been played so far:-

Leopard Skin Pill-Box Hat (14)
Highway 61 Revisited (14)
Thunder On The Mountain (14)
Ballad Of A Thin Man (14)
Like A Rolling Stone (14)
All Along The Watchtower (14)

Things Have Changed (11)

Tangled Up In Blue ( 8 )

Honest With Me (7)
A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall (7)

Summer Days (6)
Desolation Row (6)

Blind Willie McTell (5)
Forgetful Heart (5)

High Water (For Charley Patton) (4)
Tryin' To Get To Heaven (4)
The Levee's Gonna Break (4)
Don't Think Twice, It's All Right (4)
Spirit On The Water (4)

Not Dark Yet (3)
It's All Over Now, Baby Blue (3)
Love Sick (3)
It Ain't Me, Babe (3)

Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues (2)
Simple Twist Of Fate (2)
Watching The River Flow (2)
Beyond Here Lies Nothin' (2)
Can't Wait (2)
Make You Feel My Love (2)
Mississippi (2)

The Lonesome Death Of Hattie Carroll
Cold Irons Bound
Visions Of Johanna
Nettie Moore
Shooting Star
Man In The Long Black Coat
This Wheel's On Fire
I'll Be Your Baby Tonight
Jolene
Forever Young
Workingman's Blues #2
John Brown


Note that "John Brown", as performed at Mannheim with Mark on guitar, was making its first appearance on the tour. It's an old Dylan song, not on any of his old Columbia Records albums and never performed live for decades but then resurrected in recent years - and not one of his best songs, in my view, but that's another issue. For Mark, it was unlikely to have been a song with which he was particularly familiar, though some might suggest otherwise.

So that's the first difficulty, the number of songs and unfamilliarity with some of them. The second is that, for Dylan, any rehearsed arrangement is rarely fixed. He doesn't always stick to it: keys change, words change, verses are swapped around, harmonica pops up in different places and so on. This is why his band watch him so carefully because it's their job to keep up with him, whatever he does and whereever he goes. I can even recall a show where Dylan has wandered off-stage for a while in the middle of the song and the band just had to play on until he reappeared. It's not disrespect on Dylan's part, it's living with the moment. Sometimes it works wonderfully and, other times, it does not. For Mark, it cannot have been straightforward.

I guess that the guitarist in Dylan's band to whom you refer is Charlie Sexton:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Sexton




Well put.

OfflineMr Young at Heart

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Re: Concert #14:2011.10.25, SAP Arena, Mannheim, DE, # SPOILER AHEAD #
« Reply #87 on: October 26, 2011, 09:27:13 PM »
OK, I admit, my son and I enjoyed the complete show, MK, BD w/ MK, BD w/o MK. Perfect night for us. (My wife enjoyed MK and BD w/ MK and did endure the rest...)

And so, yes, the double bill makes sense. Beside the hardcore MK fans who dislike Bob (too loud, too crooked, can't play, can't sing, don't talk, all that...) and the hardcore Bob-Cats who find MK just too boring and predictable there are Bob fans like me who are MK fans too (although I am not that familiar with his complete oevre whereas I recognize almost every Dylan song most of the time before he start singing [or barking]) and who are more than glad to be given the opportunity of seeing both in one show. And Mark joining Bob on stage for more and more songs is really worth it, alone...
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 09:24:42 AM by Mr Young at Heart »

Jackal

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Re: Concert #14:2011.10.25, SAP Arena, Mannheim, DE, # SPOILER AHEAD #
« Reply #88 on: October 26, 2011, 11:25:33 PM »
... and the the hardcore Bob-Cats who find MK just too boring and predictable ...

I know what they mean, but Bob certainly is predictable too. Sure, he does vary his songs, but you can be sure the variation will be within the blues shuffle / rock idiom and how much/little he will bark out the lyrics. I've listened to a few of the shows now, and Dylan's show, although it is very intense and energetic (good), sounds like one big jam session. I like it live and spontaneous, but this sounds so disorganized that it is bordering on comical.

Offlinetwm

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Re: Concert #14:2011.10.25, SAP Arena, Mannheim, DE, # SPOILER AHEAD #
« Reply #89 on: October 27, 2011, 12:12:32 AM »
I agree that, based on the Bournemouth show I attended, it was pretty much a bluesy-rock approach throughout from Dylan but it's another development, another phase in his stage career. Recently, we've had almost none of the country-based style that peppered his sets not too long ago.  At some shows, apparently, he has done the occasional ballad, such as "Nettie Moore". Personally, I'd wish he would do at least a couple of these at every show.

Roughly half the 42 songs performed so far on this tour come from the 1963 - 1974 period and, when you've played 100 shows a year for the last 23 years or more, you really do have to vary things a bit to stay interested. And you try to find something new and different in songs you've sung hundreds of times.

Dylan is less concerned about technical perfection and more concerned with "feel" and the moment. There are flubs even on some of his official releases but he keeps them in, if he judges that the particular take selected matches best what he is trying to put over in the lyrics. Some might regard this as slapdash (comical, even) but it has resulted in a body of work nonpareil for a solo artist in the last 50 years. As an example, we are told, by those who have heard the session tapes for BLONDE ON BLONDE, that he recorded several different versions of most of the songs: some slower; some faster; some in different keys; and so on. It was described by someone as being more like the recording session of a jazz musician.  He has often bemoaned the current recording techniques by which recordings are constructed, element by element, to produce the finished product. He much prefers to record "live" in the studio (or, at least, as "live" as possible). He likes that kind of sponaneity.

 

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