seat exchange between BD/MK slots

[Jules]

From Washington Post review of recent Dylan concert: "The 70-year-old
legend's once-iconic snarl has been ravaged and reduced to something
resembling a cranky carnival barker on a good night, a Muppet with a
serious respiratory infection on a bad night."

 

 

 

[twm]

I make no bones about the effect of time and touring on Dylan's voice (and probably the cumulative effect of smoking, drinking etc).

I dare say that a carnival barker would be flattered by the comparison drawn, though quite why it was necessary to add "cranky" to the description is a bit beyond me. As for "Muppet", was that humour? If I were to draw a similar comparison (and I have used this one in conversation myself), it is that Dylan has been known to move more like a Thunderbirds' puppet - with small, slighty jerky movements and an "almost-floating" effect. Maybe, it's the result of doing a bit of sparring in boxing gyms, along the way. [Oh, yes, he does].

Anyway, here's an over-the-top review, with the opposite perspective from The Washington Post:-

http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2011/08/bob-dylan-in-bangor-by-heather-hyatt.html

Moving on to the question of consistency, I agree absolutely and think I said that earlier. Dylan's performances are not of a consistent standard, either between shows or between songs in the same show. Some would describe this as quirky or something similar. And, yes, Knopfler is nothing else if not consistent. He and his band are generally so rehearsed that they come across as a well-oiled machine. That is not intended as a criticism, as it is a very professional approach to performing, though I would prefer, as I said before, a bit more spontaneity and variation.  Then, I came into popular music through blues and jazz, both of which (especially jazz) absolutely thrive on the music of the moment, rather than what was worked out in the rehearsal studio some months before.

Going back to Dylan's voice, I came across MK's 1984 interview in, I think, GUITAR PLAYER (I think I said that I am going through some old papers at present). MK's comments on Dylan's musical ability and his singing may be worth your reading (or re-reading). The short version is that whatever Dylan lacks in technical ability is more than compensated by his soulfullness - that's a paraphrase but close enough, I believe.

[Love Expresso]

  I would prefer, as I said before, a bit more spontaneity and variation.  

twm, I think you nailed it here and I am sure that the greater part of forum members around at AMIT would second that when it comes to MK. 
There is, however, some sort of "killer phrase" that often comes across, saying that we can be happy that he is still doing something AT ALL because he doesn't need to for any artistical nor financial reasons, so if someone says that to me I better stop argue because it is hopeless. With Bob, we have another nice example of someone who does things because he WANTS to.

LE

[twm]

As you say, neither Dylan nor Knofler has to tour for financial reasons (and, these days, there's more money in touring than selling albums). Knopfler usually tours in support of his latest album but I'm sure he doesn't do it just for the ticket sales or the album sales touring generates. It is more likely that, having produced some new songs, he is understandably anxious to get them better known and more widely appreciated. In that sense, I suppose one could say that his tours are for artistic reasons. But, yes, he does it because he WANTS to and, presumably, to keep that connection with his audience and his fans.

As you say, Dylan does it because he wants to, as well but with a difference. Dylan just tours and tours and tours. There doesn't have to be a specific reason. He does introduce new songs on stage once an album has been released (the delay is more because he doesn't want his new songs to be bootlegged in advance) but a more sporadic way. 

In the very first year of his recording career, he said that he hoped to be like the old bluesmen of his day, performing publicly into his dotage. Another factor here is that Dylan has never had what I might term a "real" job. Apart from a couple of very short-term temporary jobs when young, he has only ever been a recording and performing artist. It's all he has ever done.

In the sleeve notes of his first album, he said he just wanted to keep singing and writing songs and on his second album, I think, he said that he didn't carry himself the way some of the old bluesmen did but hoped to do that some day. And that is what he has done. I mean, it can't be too bad to have written "Make You Feel My Love and to have had it taken into the charts by others as you're approaching 70.

[twm]

Probably not the right thread but here's an analysis (not mine) of what Dylan has sung during the U.S. tour that has just finished:-


Dylan has performed in 28 shows on the recent US tour. He

[Jules]

What worry us the most is if MK and Bob will play together some songs...

We dont like the idea of two separate concerts, looks like a nosense dont play together when both played together in two records,and also performed live in 1986 together.

[Rollergirl]

Oh, and he now has a goatee beard!

now THAT'S  some interesting info!
I wonder if the female fans of BD are as crazy at us and find him as sexy as we find MK? Do you have "drool" threads on BD forums?

[Love Expresso]

What worry us the most is if MK and Bob will play together some songs...

We dont like the idea of two separate concerts, looks like a nosense dont play together when both played together in two records,and also performed live in 1986 together.

I know what you mean, but "we" reminds me of Gollum...  (Precious...)  I for my part do not expect anything but two separate sets. Anything else would be a great "Encore" and bonus. I think it is better not to expect them both playing together on stage on a regular base during the tour.
Therefor I think Bob is too... uncommitted. 

It would be a pity of course to read about a duet in Glasgow f.e. and then go to Oberhausen and not having anything at all...

LE

[twm]

I am not signed up for any public Dylan fora.  As it happens, I was away from home recently and away from the usual distractions and did while away a little time looking at one or two of them. Mostly, I found them a mixture of, on the one hand, the inane and mundane and, on the other hand, the interesting and the useful. To answer your question specifically, there are people there who, in my opinion, do "drool" - to use your word. I added that little snippet to my post by way of something light-hearted.

As for whether they will play together, I don't know. I can't really imagine Dylan joining Knopfler's set but it is indeed possible that Knopfler may be invited to join Dylan's set, especially the encore songs. I seem to recall, on one of the documentaries on MK, that he said that Dylan started it all for him and MK is certainly capable. Indeed, if Charlie Sexton is still in Dylan's band on the coming tour and, if Dylan gives him the opportunityfor once (not always the case in recent times), we might even get two guitarists, different in style, ripping the place apart.  If Dylan's encores are All Along The Watchtower and Like A Rolling Stone, then Mark may even get the chance to sing, too. But Dylan does unexpected things. As just one example, at a concert in Italy many years ago on a tour with Santana, I seem recall reading that Dylan took off his own bass player for the encores (six songs long ) and bringing on Santana's bass player. Dylan's bass player went off stage quietly but apparently was absolutely fuming backstage. By the way, Santana certainly came out to join Dylan on stage at the end of concerts on that tour.

[Pottel]

Thanks for the various "welcomes"; it is appreciated.

My point on stage-rushing was that, whereas MK fans tend to wait until a particular point is the show before dashing to the front, Dylan fans seek to make the move from the very start of DYlan's performance (and often succeed).

For many of the shows on the coming tour, the GA-standing arrangements will render my comments invalid anyway but, for the seated venues, it will be interesting to see what happens.

I do not wish to foster discord here but please bear with me. By and large, I have preferred the NHB and MK (solo) concerts to the DS concerts that I have attended. Why, I  wondered. My conclusion is that I don't much go for what I might call stadium rock. It isn't just Mark for me. I have attended and enjoyed a solo Springsteen concert and one of his Seeger Sessions dates but have never felt impelled to go to one of his "standard" shows. Similarly, I attended several early Pink Floyd shows in the late-1960s (at a college dance, at The Roundouse and "Games For May" at the Queen Elizabeth Hall) but just lost interest in their music thereafter. I suspect that I'm not the only Bob Dylan fan so minded. On the other hand, many Mark Knopfler fans seem to get more animated during the DS material. Certainly, at the MK solo concerts that I have attended, it is the DS material that gets the most immediate crowd response and, at The Straits concert at the Royal Albert Hall earlier this year, audience reaction clearly showed the attraction of the "old-style" DS performance.  I should add that I am not entirely against songs from the DS era. For example, I first heard R&J on a folk music radio programme (!), was much struck by it and have rarely not enjoyed it in concert.  On the other hand, that long "Calling Elvis" intro to those early 1990s DS shows used to cause me a touch of dread - I couldn't wait for it to finish. And I found the shorter "Speedway" on the last MK tour much more focussed than the longer version on the tour before last. But that's just me. I can't speak for other Dylan fans.

hi twm, also a warm welcome from my side.
nice to see you here, after seeing you during those RAH shows last year :-)

[Pottel]

I fully accept that, nowadays, Dylan's vocal range is limited and his enunciation is gruff.  I can understand why some (many?) in his audience may go away disappointed, maybe even angry but, as I said before, there is an objective level to this and a subjective level.

I also accept that Dylan's performance is variable from show to show and, indeed, from song to song within a show. You will not get the sort of consistency that you experience with an MK show. Some in the audience may find that hard to take, too, but most Dylan fans go to shows knowing that in advance. Indeed, many Dylan fans go night after to night and travel vast distances to catch as many shows as possible, partly because there is variation in the set list and partly because they want to be there when, in their eyes and ears, he delivers.

As I think I said before, Dylan is not always an easy listening experience. You have to work at it and, in my view, it's harder now than it used to be.

Moving on, someone mentioned Dylan The Legend. Yes, there is an element of this. It is my personal view that, in 100 years time, say, people will still be listening to and analysing Dylan and his works. Those who attend his shows (even the more recent shows) will be telling their children and grandchildren (and the way the actuarial tables are going, perhaps even their great grandchildren) that they saw Bob Dylan once - and maybe saw him more than once! It is almost too glib to say that he changed popular music forever, that he showed that one can bring a wider range of words, thoughts, ideas, emotions to popular music and so on and so on. That's music journalism stuff and, in my opinion, the music critics so often review his new album in the light of its predecessor as much as on its own merits. And, it's all essentially opinion but there are some objective indicators, such as winning an Oscar and being invited to play before the (last) Pope.  He may not sell albums in the huge quantities that others do but his albums can sell enough to get him pretty well up the charts even in the last few years. He can turn out albums of out-takes, alternate takes and the like (in The Bootleg Series releases) that other recording artists would love to have had as their frontline releases. While there is some dispute as to the actual number (depending on the criteria you use), he has approaching 50 albums to his own name. His body of work is simply prodigious.

Call him legendary if you wish. He's done as much as anyone performing today to deserve such an accolade. To some degree, he seems to treat it as irrelevant anyway, even a joke. I don't know if he has continued the practice at this year's shows but, for some years, he has had his tour manager open the show by reading out a summary of his life, taken from a newspaper review. You might find it funny and, I guess, a rather un-showbizzy way to announce a performer.




 

based on the last few recordings i heard, yes that is still being done. why stop?

[Pottel]

I am not signed up for any public Dylan fora.  As it happens, I was away from home recently and away from the usual distractions and did while away a little time looking at one or two of them. Mostly, I found them a mixture of, on the one hand, the inane and mundane and, on the other hand, the interesting and the useful. To answer your question specifically, there are people there who, in my opinion, do "drool" - to use your word. I added that little snippet to my post by way of something light-hearted.

As for whether they will play together, I don't know. I can't really imagine Dylan joining Knopfler's set but it is indeed possible that Knopfler may be invited to join Dylan's set, especially the encore songs. I seem to recall, on one of the documentaries on MK, that he said that Dylan started it all for him and MK is certainly capable. Indeed, if Charlie Sexton is still in Dylan's band on the coming tour and, if Dylan gives him the opportunityfor once (not always the case in recent times), we might even get two guitarists, different in style, ripping the place apart.  If Dylan's encores are All Along The Watchtower and Like A Rolling Stone, then Mark may even get the chance to sing, too. But Dylan does unexpected things. As just one example, at a concert in Italy many years ago on a tour with Santana, I seem recall reading that Dylan took off his own bass player for the encores (six songs long ) and bringing on Santana's bass player. Dylan's bass player went off stage quietly but apparently was absolutely fuming backstage. By the way, Santana certainly came out to join Dylan on stage at the end of concerts on that tour.

back in '84 right? santana was crap on that tour, Mick Taylor was way better.
but interesting story.

[Jules]

I wonder why "a legend" like Bob Dylan needs stars like Santana, Van Morrison, Leon Russell or Mark Knopfler opening his shows... I don

[twm]

You could, of course, reverse the question and ask why, as musicians, performers of the stature of Santana, Van Morrison and Leon Russel would wish to join Dylan on tour. And now Mark Knopfler.

As it happens, Dylan did share the stage with Santana and Van Morrison at times but not, as far as I can gather, with Leon Russell. Dylan has shared the stage with many of those who have shared the bill with him - Paul Simon and Patti Smith to name but two. He has also guested at the others' shows and had guest performers at his own shows. It really isn't something that is predictable.

I can also recall relatively little known musicians joing Dylan on stage, even British ones. I'm thinking of Bobby Valentino (in 1987, I think) and this was several years before Bobby Valentino guested on a Notting Hillbillies' show at Ronnie Scott's club.

[twm]

To set my mind at rest, I checked. Bobby Valentino played violin on "Lenny Bruce" at Dylan's 14 Oct 87 concert in London and very good he was, as I recall. Ronnie Wood and George Harrison guested at other shows that week.

And if your recording of the NHBs at Ronnie Scott's has a voice exclaiming "It's Bobby Valentino!", then that was me and I apologise. And, if that was a show I recorded myself, which I suspect it was, then I committed the cardinal sin of tapers - getting carried away with the music and the occasion. I am not an habitual offender in this regard (and no longer tape shows) but, quite a few years ago, in New York for a Dylan bash of some kind, I went down to the Bottom Line to catch John Stewart - great songwriter and no mean performer. When he asked for requests, I, in a booth at the rear, screamed out "California Bloodlines" which he kindly performed. It was agreat moment for me in a way but, of course, it ruined my recording but there it goes. Live for the spontaneous moment when it comes to live shows - which is what Dylan does.

That night, John Stewart was supporting Alison Krauss and Union Station. This was almost 20 years ago and the name was new to me. I had to ask someone a bit about them. Anyway, so taken was I with their performance that, in the interval, I bought a cassette of theirs - no CDs on sale - and calmly walked into the backstage area, knocked on the dressing room door and asked her to sign the cassette insert. I still have it in the rack downstairs.