Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email


News: - Make sure you know the Forum Rules and Guidelines

Also check out these related sites:

Author Topic: seat exchange between BD/MK slots  (Read 49474 times)

OfflineJules

  • Honorary Knopfler fans- Editor
  • Mark F. Knopfler
  • **********
  • Posts: 13350
  • Location: Gone
  • Registered: August 2008
Re: seat exchange between BD/MK slots
« Reply #60 on: August 21, 2011, 03:22:56 AM »
I like your post a lot, even I still find hard to accept that anyone consider that what BD does is singing.
So Long

Offlinetwm

  • Romeo
  • *****
  • Posts: 1089
  • Registered: August 2011
Re: seat exchange between BD/MK slots
« Reply #61 on: August 21, 2011, 11:10:23 AM »
I fully accept that, nowadays, Dylan's vocal range is limited and his enunciation is gruff.  I can understand why some (many?) in his audience may go away disappointed, maybe even angry but, as I said before, there is an objective level to this and a subjective level.

I also accept that Dylan's performance is variable from show to show and, indeed, from song to song within a show. You will not get the sort of consistency that you experience with an MK show. Some in the audience may find that hard to take, too, but most Dylan fans go to shows knowing that in advance. Indeed, many Dylan fans go night after to night and travel vast distances to catch as many shows as possible, partly because there is variation in the set list and partly because they want to be there when, in their eyes and ears, he delivers.

As I think I said before, Dylan is not always an easy listening experience. You have to work at it and, in my view, it's harder now than it used to be.

Moving on, someone mentioned Dylan The Legend. Yes, there is an element of this. It is my personal view that, in 100 years time, say, people will still be listening to and analysing Dylan and his works. Those who attend his shows (even the more recent shows) will be telling their children and grandchildren (and the way the actuarial tables are going, perhaps even their great grandchildren) that they saw Bob Dylan once - and maybe saw him more than once! It is almost too glib to say that he changed popular music forever, that he showed that one can bring a wider range of words, thoughts, ideas, emotions to popular music and so on and so on. That's music journalism stuff and, in my opinion, the music critics so often review his new album in the light of its predecessor as much as on its own merits. And, it's all essentially opinion but there are some objective indicators, such as winning an Oscar and being invited to play before the (last) Pope.  He may not sell albums in the huge quantities that others do but his albums can sell enough to get him pretty well up the charts even in the last few years. He can turn out albums of out-takes, alternate takes and the like (in The Bootleg Series releases) that other recording artists would love to have had as their frontline releases. While there is some dispute as to the actual number (depending on the criteria you use), he has approaching 50 albums to his own name. His body of work is simply prodigious.

Call him legendary if you wish. He's done as much as anyone performing today to deserve such an accolade. To some degree, he seems to treat it as irrelevant anyway, even a joke. I don't know if he has continued the practice at this year's shows but, for some years, he has had his tour manager open the show by reading out a summary of his life, taken from a newspaper review. You might find it funny and, I guess, a rather un-showbizzy way to announce a performer.




 

Offlinesuperval99

  • Erwin Knopfler
  • **********
  • Posts: 7609
  • Location: UK
  • Registered: August 2008
Re: seat exchange between BD/MK slots
« Reply #62 on: August 21, 2011, 11:32:29 AM »
I feel that there is an analogy with Dylan and the story of "The King's New Clothes"!    Nobody has the nerve to stand up and actually say he can't sing, they just continue saying how amazing he is, until one day an unsuspecting child attends the show and says in a very loud voice "Daddy, why can't that man sing?"   ;D  That day may come!

That being said, I do love his songs and I am going to the concert to enjoy myself and to see what the fuss is all about!   :)

« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 11:37:41 AM by superval99 »
Goin' into Tow Law....

Offlinetwm

  • Romeo
  • *****
  • Posts: 1089
  • Registered: August 2011
Re: seat exchange between BD/MK slots
« Reply #63 on: August 21, 2011, 11:59:09 AM »
Yes, there may be an element of the King's New Clothes but there is a difference. The existence or otherwise of the King's clothes was a matter of objective fact. The ability to put over a song is not to be measured objectively - certainly not when attending a concert.

I have been to Dylan shows that have been well received but, for reasons to do with my position and the actions of audience members around me, I simply did not enjoy. I have been to other shows where I have been seated way at the back in a flat area and in a huge venue, but have had my socks knocked off.

If you say that, as far as you are concerned, Dylan can't sing, then who am I to deny that's the way you hear him? All I am suggesting in these posts is that listening to Dylan is a very different experience from listening to Knopfler. Myself, I can listen to both. And, if Dylan doesn't do it for me on the night, I shall say so.

Offlinesuperval99

  • Erwin Knopfler
  • **********
  • Posts: 7609
  • Location: UK
  • Registered: August 2008
Re: seat exchange between BD/MK slots
« Reply #64 on: August 21, 2011, 12:10:19 PM »
Even though I don't think he can sing, not well anyway, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy some of the clips I have seen of the tour.  I find myself, after a few listenings, quite enjoying the new arrangement of Blind Willie McTell, although I would really love to hear it played, as originally, with MK, when I hear it in concert.  It is the banjo, though, rather than Bob's voice that I find enjoyable.   I also enjoyed A Simple Twist of Fate, including Bob's guitar.   
Goin' into Tow Law....


Offlinesuperval99

  • Erwin Knopfler
  • **********
  • Posts: 7609
  • Location: UK
  • Registered: August 2008
Re: seat exchange between BD/MK slots
« Reply #66 on: August 21, 2011, 02:38:06 PM »
http://bangordailynews.com/2011/08/20/living/music-concerts-live-bands/dylan-thrills-capacity-crowd-on-bangor-waterfront/

Many thanks twm!   It was certainly a very good review and I'm looking forward to the opportunity of giving my own thoughts on the concert in October.  It was a pity that the reporter didn't say a word about Leon Russell, though.  After all, he performed too! :-\
Goin' into Tow Law....

Offlinetwm

  • Romeo
  • *****
  • Posts: 1089
  • Registered: August 2011
Re: seat exchange between BD/MK slots
« Reply #67 on: August 21, 2011, 05:51:48 PM »
I've not heard good reports of Leon Russell but can't really say.

Getting back to an earlier posting and by wonderfully curious coincidence, I was looking through some Bob Dylan stuff from 1964 (don't ask why, it is pretty boring) and came across a report by Ralph Gleason (who was the jazz and popular music critic of the SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE and the man who, as I recall, inspired Jann Wenner to set up ROLLING STONE magazine in the first place). The article was entitled "Bob Dylan, Poet of the '60s" and concerned a recent Dylan concert in San Francisco, at which Joan Baez had guested. Gleason ended his article with the following:

Dylan, Baez and the new youth are saying 'the emperor has no clothes'. They are saying 'we want to live, not be killed and we want to be free'. Their morality is not new but a return to the basiscs ..., a rejection of sham and of pretense, and a determination to say what you mean, be what you are and to remain honest. More power to them. Friday night's affair was one of the most enjoyable evenings I have ever spent in a concert hall. At the very least, these young people, so young, so wise, so honest, are inspiring. At the most, they may represent the new beginning of sanity in this society.

It was the "emperor has no clothes" phrase that caught my eye.

Offlinesuperval99

  • Erwin Knopfler
  • **********
  • Posts: 7609
  • Location: UK
  • Registered: August 2008
Re: seat exchange between BD/MK slots
« Reply #68 on: August 21, 2011, 05:57:40 PM »
Thanks for that, twm!   ;)
Goin' into Tow Law....

Offlinedustyvalentino

  • Not Quite The Movie Star
  • Founder
  • THE Sultan of Swing
  • *********
  • Posts: 7189
  • Location: Donkeytown
  • Registered: August 2008
Re: seat exchange between BD/MK slots
« Reply #69 on: August 21, 2011, 10:00:34 PM »
I've not heard good reports of Leon Russell but can't really say.

Getting back to an earlier posting and by wonderfully curious coincidence, I was looking through some Bob Dylan stuff from 1964 (don't ask why, it is pretty boring) and came across a report by Ralph Gleason (who was the jazz and popular music critic of the SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE and the man who, as I recall, inspired Jann Wenner to set up ROLLING STONE magazine in the first place). The article was entitled "Bob Dylan, Poet of the '60s" and concerned a recent Dylan concert in San Francisco, at which Joan Baez had guested. Gleason ended his article with the following:

Dylan, Baez and the new youth are saying 'the emperor has no clothes'. They are saying 'we want to live, not be killed and we want to be free'. Their morality is not new but a return to the basiscs ..., a rejection of sham and of pretense, and a determination to say what you mean, be what you are and to remain honest. More power to them. Friday night's affair was one of the most enjoyable evenings I have ever spent in a concert hall. At the very least, these young people, so young, so wise, so honest, are inspiring. At the most, they may represent the new beginning of sanity in this society.

It was the "emperor has no clothes" phrase that caught my eye.

Ah, but Dylan was so much older then - he's younger than that now. ;)

Baez stuck to her guns though. :)
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

Offlinetwm

  • Romeo
  • *****
  • Posts: 1089
  • Registered: August 2011
Re: seat exchange between BD/MK slots
« Reply #70 on: August 21, 2011, 10:57:13 PM »
I presume you mean that Baez has stuck to her political view of the world. By late 1964, the period in question, Dylan had moved well beyond that stage in his life. Indeed, in the November 1964 issue of SING OUT! magazine, the editor wrote an "Open Letter to Bob Dylan", bemoaning his move away from songs of social comment.

Only last night, by chance, I spoke to somebody who interviewed Dylan in early December 1964 and, soon after, wrote a letter in support of what the editor had written. This interviewer then said to me that he had been very "straight" at the time but, within a year or so of the interview, had revised his view entirely. He told me that he had come to realise that Dylan was far ahead of most of his audience at the time and, to paraphrase his words, that Dylan was the coolest cat on the planet.  This guy, incidentally, is an absolute music buff, having well over 10,000 albums, CDs, DVDs and the like, as well as a complete run of ROLLING STONE and other music magazines. I say this only to emphasise that he isn't your average interviewer.

Ralph Gleason had a splendid track record as a music critic and commentator and much of what he wrote then still applies - not about being young  of course (and, as Dylan himself said, times were changing and people would need to change) but certainly about being true to yourself.

OfflineJules

  • Honorary Knopfler fans- Editor
  • Mark F. Knopfler
  • **********
  • Posts: 13350
  • Location: Gone
  • Registered: August 2008
Re: seat exchange between BD/MK slots
« Reply #71 on: August 22, 2011, 09:11:00 AM »
My one and only experience with Bob Dylan was because of the legend factor. I own many of his cds, and I love them, but I went home quite unhappy because I only noticed that I witnessed some of my favourite songs the next day when reading the newspapers, and in many of them, I was about to call emergencies number because that man at the stage looked like suffering terrible pain when singing...

And thats the reason why I didnt attend any of the 3 or 4 next shows that BD played at my town, one of them with very very cheap prices. My first time with him was more than enough, and honestly, I
So Long

Offlineds1984

  • Rüdiger
  • *******
  • Used to be...
  • Posts: 3775
  • Registered: February 2009
Re: seat exchange between BD/MK slots
« Reply #72 on: August 22, 2011, 10:32:17 AM »
This is the thing with BD : the gate between his recorded work and his live gig if far greater than the casual artist.

The fan loves it but a number of  Mme Michu concert goer being there because Bob is a legend and had delivered great records may be left with expectation about what and how he actualy performed. Add the fact that the man can be in a "good" or "bad" night.

And this is something that I personally never witnessed with Mark after over 50 gigs attended : there have been some show better than others (the third night of the 2002 residency @ Shepherd's Bush for example) but even the average nights were still on some level contrary to some other artists that I can tell that I saw them one night litterally "on fire" (David Gilmour and Rick Wright at the great Vienne Antic Roman Theatre or the 1999 Rolling Stones saturday night's gig at Wembley Stadium).
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 04:54:38 PM by ds1984 »
The haters are those who write shit

Two weeks in Australia and Sydney striptease

Offlinedustyvalentino

  • Not Quite The Movie Star
  • Founder
  • THE Sultan of Swing
  • *********
  • Posts: 7189
  • Location: Donkeytown
  • Registered: August 2008
Re: seat exchange between BD/MK slots
« Reply #73 on: August 22, 2011, 02:17:02 PM »
I presume you mean that Baez has stuck to her political view of the world.

Absolutely. It wasn't meant as a critiscm of Bob at all, just something that struck me when reading that quote. Personally I love the way Bob's career unfolded, would have been quite boring if he'd stuck with all the sanctimonious political stuff for 50 years. And of course then we wouldn't have even had My Back Pages, which is one of my faves (especially The Byrds version).
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

Offlinedustyvalentino

  • Not Quite The Movie Star
  • Founder
  • THE Sultan of Swing
  • *********
  • Posts: 7189
  • Location: Donkeytown
  • Registered: August 2008
Re: seat exchange between BD/MK slots
« Reply #74 on: August 22, 2011, 02:24:46 PM »
From Washington Post review of recent Dylan concert: "The 70-year-old
legend's once-iconic snarl has been ravaged and reduced to something
resembling a cranky carnival barker on a good night, a Muppet with a
serious respiratory infection on a bad night."

 :)
"You can't polish a doo-doo" - Mark Knopfler

 

© 2024 amarkintime.org
This is an unofficial website dedicated to Mark Knopfler developed and maintained by fans.
Top banner design by Dutchessy.
This theme is based on the SMF theme Carbonate by Bloc.
SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Page created in 0.061 seconds with 39 queries.