Keyboards in BIA & OES tours

[herlock]

I was watching SoS from Basel'92 yesterday, I and realized that for the first 7 minutes, Alan and Guy were not even on stage ! I then watched SoS from Live Aid, and saw (and heard) the keyboards were very present. I always thought the OES tour had more complexity than the BiA one, with 9 people on stage, but then I realized than during the OES tour SoS, save for the piano break and the sax, was played more like today, as a 4-piece band...
More generally, the BiA tour is full of synths, whereas in the OES tour it now seems to me that the keyboards were downplayed - for the benefit of Paul Franklin's steel guitart...
I read somewhere that the BiA tour was criticized for 1) too much synth and 2) overdriven drums. Dou you know if  Mark heard these critics and took them into account for the following tour ? About the drums, the OES tour drums sound much less overdriven to me that the BIA tour ones.

But overall, I think the BIA tour has the better sound, more keyboards and no pedal steel. Take BiA (the song). As much as I like the "On the night" version, I still prefer Wembley'85 with the romantic use of synth.
Am I the only one ? Am I some kind of obsolete nostalgic stuck in the 80's ? Which tour do you guys prefer ?

[Love Expresso]

I am biased because I saw Dire Straits for the first time when I visited three OES concerts - I liked them all three, and they blew me away. I also love to watch and listen to the London Wembley 85 show and wished I would have been there. Paul Franklins contribution is always a great topic around here now and then, but I never thought of him playing too dominantly - in fact I liked his parts in Calling Elvis, Walk Of Life, Your Latest Trick and above all, Brothers In Arms very much!

During Sultans, it was on the second let of the tour, during the Open Air concerts 1992, that they changed the performance a little bit. While they played it with the full band during the first half in 1991, they used to bring up a little drum riser on stage so that they could start as a little "four piece" - it was a nice effect and was described as "back to the pub band" by some reviews I read around that time. The other band members used to come up on stage during the quiet part of Sultans and it was a bomabastic finale - I really love this version of Sultans the best - just have a look at Nimes 1992 - even Chris Whites saxophone has a really great part in it.

About the keys and drums I think you are right that it was a little bit too much during the BIA tour. Guys "sound effects" during The Man's Too Strong - awful! And Terry's drumming at the beginning of Expresso Love is also too much 80's - but it WAS at the 80's... So this might be the first time that MK was giving in to the "zeitgeist"...  While the keyboards on Alchemy all sound very unique, age- date- and timeless, you can clearly hear Guy's Contribution of Synth in 1985, they changed that thankworthy in 1991.

LE

[herlock]

Thanks LE for all this info, I did not know that they removed the keyboards half way through the OES tour on SoS !
I guess you are not fond of Live Aid SoS then (the only one on official video besides Alchemy) ? You must prefer Alchemy SoS then ?
You like Pedal Steel in BiA ? Gosh, I have a real problem with that one. I just wish that Wembley'85 was officially released, BiA is very rocking, and even if i'm the only one I really love these synth part... so much better than the pedal steel... I'm 80-ish

[herlock]

Actually I just wanted to listen to the 1991 "full band" versions of SoS. I found Munich and Dortmund 1991 - no keyboardists on stage... I wanted to find an olded one, found Dublin'91 (audio only), and as far as I can tell I could not hear any keyboards either... are you sure they started with a full band ? if yes, could you refer me to one such "full band" version ? Thanks !

[Love Expresso]

Well, I thought about the surprise I felt when they brought in the little drum riser so I thought that was a change from 1991!  
But the longer I think about it, I remember that they already played it at a four piece in 1991, only with Chris Whitten behind his big "official" drum kit. So
he was maybe a little lost there ... and it was a little more "lively" for him to get closer to John, Mark and Phil. Sorry for this wrong info, but you know, I am from the 70's  , and it is nearly 20 years since I visited those shows...

I stand by my word however that if I had to choose ONE best concert of MK/DS I would probably choose Wembley 85. It is perfect.
These preferences change with the years, I used to love Vaison, but nowadays I love Locarno 2010 the most, but still ... Wembley 85 is my all time favourite. But there is so much stuff to love from MK, isn't it. I never had reservations against the contributions of Paul Franklin. I would be happy if he would reappear on one of the next MK albums...

I think I have a DVD from the Munich 1991 show somewhere, but I am not very tidily with these things. I must have a look...

And, they did NOT remove the keyboards from the stage,  , only the keyboard players...  

LE

[dmg]

I've been listening to Sultans from Milan 09.09.92 a lot lately - great version.  Although Marks guitar goes missing for a few seconds near the end??

Does anyone here know if they changed amps or anything during the tour because I think there are three distinct sounds:  European/Australasian leg,  North American leg and 2nd European leg.

[herlock]

Thanks LE ! You're forgiven fo the wrong info
I'm watching Wembley'85 now, it's true it is wonderful. So full of energy (more than Sydney'86) and more spontaneous than On the Night...
I don't quite see what you mean with "Guy's awful sound effects" in the Man's too strong, the song sounds fine to me... ?
For official releases of the BIA tour we only have Live Aid... which I find a bit inferior to Wembley'85. What do you think ? Maybe it is it being in day time rather than at night that makes me feel that way, I don't know. SoS is great, but it seems that the keyboards are too high in the mix compared to Wembley (I think they could not perform a soundcheck in Live Aid, as many musicians would just use the same equipments with no break). And Sting's voice on MFN is... well... substandard Luckily we have the Montserrat version, which blows all the others away !
I did not say they removed the keyboards from the stage, I said "keyboardists"
Cheers

[Love Expresso]

Did you? 

Honestly, I watched Live Aid one or two times and decided that I didn't like both songs. Have heard Sultans much better many times, and Money For Nothing is a real "skip"-tester for me: How fast can I push that "skip" button... Mark's musical universe has much more and better stuff to offer than Sting on stage barking and howling...

It struck me only today that there were only three days between these two shows. The TV show was from July 10th, and three days later they had Live Aid. I prefer the complete band performance. Very special and exiciting mood and vibes in that Wembley Arena.

During "The Man's Too Strong" there are these loud "harmonica"-like sounding bits in the beginning, and for me this nearly spoils the song. Marks singing is
great, and the "Boom" during the refrain, when the full band plays and Chris plays flute, is very powerful. The synth sound did not fit in.  However, only in my opinion. High standard critizing, on this phantastic show.

LE

[herlock]

What do you reproach to Live Aid SoS actually ? quite good to me, almost on par with Wembley, if not for the keys to high in the mix...Yes, the two performances were only 3 days apart, they cannot be THAT different ?
MFN is another story. At least, Sting "barked" better 12 years later for the Montserrat version
I don't mind those harmonica sounds, there are only at the beginning anyway.... great show ! Too bad it was not broadcaster completely. Ride Across the River was certainly great. TOL is great, but there was no FM broadcast, we have to be contented with the TV sound and the change of pace half way through, which is... shocking !
Cheers

[dmg]

From the BIA tour I think the concert in Seattle 20.09.85 contains versions of Sultans and TOL that are hard to beat.

Was it in the Myles Palmer biography where I read that Mark was apparently unhappy with the Live Aid performance?  Of course someone got the lyrics mixed up on MFN.  

[Love Expresso]

Wembley Arena 1985 has to be released on DVD/BluRay. Period.

Sultans, ah, I don't know. Just don't like it. 

dmg, obviously Mark and I have something in common on this case, haven't we... 

If it was broadcasted on TV today, I would watch it nevertheless. The song itself and  Mark's live quality is so much better than almost everything you can see nowadays... on TV... and even if Mark is only giving 70, 80 %, he is still awesome.

LE

[Love Expresso]

To get back on topic: The keyboards on both tours made their biggest impression on me during "Private Investigatons". Just listen to On The Night's version of it - really sinister and breathtaking "sound carpet" if you know what I mean... And there are those Harmonica sounds again, in the beginning...
This time I think they fit in... 

LE

[dmg]

The biggest problem I think with Live Aid was that it was like a conveyer belt of musicians and they didn't get time to warm up.  At least for the Mandela concert they were on stage for a good few songs so it was like a mini concert almost.

[herlock]

The biggest problem I think with Live Aid was that it was like a conveyer belt of musicians and they didn't get time to warm up.  At least for the Mandela concert they were on stage for a good few songs so it was like a mini concert almost.

Exactly, that's why I said that SoS was a good performance, but the issue was more the soundcheck and the mix.
So, do you know what Mark said exactly about both songs ?
If he is unhappy with it... then there is something he can do about it: release a proper BIA tour blu-ray, so that Live Aid will not be the only official document of the tour !

[dmg]

Not sure exactly what Mark said but the Biography is said to be full of inaccuracies so take that with a pinch of salt.

The mix-up in lyrics during MFN is unfortunate though and Sting's vocal at the beginning is totally out of tune.