Paul Simon - So Beautiful or So What

[goldenheart96]

One thing I need to know: What exactly makes Bob a "Genius"? There are plenty of great songwriters on this planet! They just didn't happen to be around at the right time around Vietnam to record some cute protest songs and stuff. There are fantastic lyricists on earth, too, except they don't sing. There are a lot of fantastic composers around. So WTF makes Bob so special? I need to know!

[Jackal]

[The original 450-word post was written about 4 AM and was at that time considered by the author as insightful and well-written.

Upon rereading it at 9:40 AM, the author discovered it was utter trash and thus decided to delete it.]

 

[Jackal]

Just found this fantastic interview with Paul Simon http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/8569 . The interviewer is the terribly irritating Charlie Rose,  but this time he let's the interviewee speak. What a great and interesting person Simon is.

[superval99]

And Superval, I see. I understand why Bob has a special meaning to you.

Actually, it has nothing very much to do with the many years I have listened to Bob's music.  It is more about the songs, eg "Blind Willie McTell". Whenever I listen to this song, once is not enough - it has to be about 6 times and every time I listen, I get the shivers!  His voice is essential to the atmosphere of this song. Of course, there are many more examples - too many to mention!  That is something Paul Simon could never do for me and never has done, except in connection with Art Garfunkel, but we are not talking about that connection are we!   MK can do it, though, with a multitude of his songs!   BTW I am not one of those who call Bob Dylan a genius - I just enjoy his work!   

Regarding Paul v Mark.    You say Paul is more versatile than Mark.  I don't think so!   Mark has written hundreds of wonderful songs in a great variety of genres - lyrics and music!   He sings them all and personally I love his voice.  Then, of course, his wonderful guitar playing and this is where he gains the most points over Paul Simon, because although Paul plays very well,  he is not in the same street as Mark and never will be!  

Another thing I am curious about is why you stayed a "fan" of MK and his music for so many years, after the cultural shock of hearing STP's simple song structures!    

I respect the fact that you are a greater fan of Paul than Mark, but I will always remember you for your drooling posts about Mark and I wonder, does Paul do those things for you too, or does Mark gain a point or two in that department?    

[Fletch]

"WTF makes Bob so special?"

You're bound to enjoy Bobs, Slow Train Coming and Infidels albums. Great, great songs and lyrics and of course, Mr Knopflers tasteful guitar all over them. And you might learn more about the mystery of Bobs "genius". Well, you did ask!

Blood On The Tracks is probably his most accomplished work, and not a hit single in sight! You gotta love it.

I really dig Pauls first solo album, it has beautiful guitar work and songs. After that, up to Graceland, I only had his 'Negotiations & Love Songs' collection. Can you recommend any other PS solo records from that era?

[goldenheart96]

 BTW I am not one of those who call Bob Dylan a genius - I just enjoy his work!  

Good to hear that!  
I always think it's presumtuous to say that. I also wouldn't say Paul is a "genius". He is a fantastic songwriter and I *personally* think he's better than Dylan musically, but I wouldn't generalise and put him over the top of everybody else just because he is the legend  

Regarding Paul v Mark.    You say Paul is more versatile than Mark.  I don't think so!   Mark has written hundreds of wonderful songs in a great variety of genres - lyrics and music!   He sings them all and personally I love his voice.  Then, of course, his wonderful guitar playing and this is where he gains the most points over Paul Simon, because although Paul plays very well,  he is not in the same street as Mark and never will be!

 

Hmm, then Paul and Mark are probably versatile in different ways. I also enjoy the way Mark has woven all those celtic, folk, blues and rock elements into his songs. And of course you're right - his guitar playing is unsurpassed. Paul has probably found more interesting ways to combine all that stuff he has learned from foreign cultures, especially rhythm. For example those powerful drums on "The Obvious Child", or that 7/8 beat in "The Cool Cool River". He mixes the best of both worlds: His sense of melody which he probably developed in his folk past, pop, rock, jazz.. And he has always had plenty of fantastic musicians around him. Michael Brecker, Steve Gadd etc. As for Paul's guitar playing, he sure is no MK, but I do think he is quite underrated... Listen to his acoustic guitar work on his first solo album for example. "Peace Like A River" is awesome.

Another thing I am curious about is why you stayed a "fan" of MK and his music for so many years, after the cultural shock of hearing STP's simple song structures!

Very interesting question! Probably because of his guitar playing which makes the songs special.

I respect the fact that you are a greater fan of Paul than Mark, but I will always remember you for your drooling posts about Mark and I wonder, does Paul do those things for you too, or does Mark gain a point or two in that department?    

Hehehe! Believe it or not, I had a Paul Simon drooling phase, too... But now I think MK is more handsome  
The thing that puts Paul over Mark for me is that Paul was the first "real" songwriter I listened to. He opened my ears for good music. If it hadn't been for Paul, I probably would never have discovered MK, who knows!

[superval99]

Thanks for answering my queries, Goldenheart!   

[goldenheart96]

"WTF makes Bob so special?"

You're bound to enjoy Bobs, Slow Train Coming and Infidels albums. Great, great songs and lyrics and of course, Mr Knopflers tasteful guitar all over them. And you might learn more about the mystery of Bobs "genius". Well, you did ask!

Blood On The Tracks is probably his most accomplished work, and not a hit single in sight! You gotta love it.

I really dig Pauls first solo album, it has beautiful guitar work and songs. After that, up to Graceland, I only had his 'Negotiations & Love Songs' collection. Can you recommend any other PS solo records from that era?

Okay, let's see... "There Goes Rhymin' Simon" features The Dixie Hummingbirds; you probably know songs like "Loves Me Like A Rock" or the famous "Kodachrome". The whole album has a great bluesy, gospel-y New Orleans kind of feeling, if you like that.

I don't listen to "Still Crazy After All These Years" that much but it has some nice gems like the title track of course, and "My Little Town", the duet with Garfunkel. Oh, and "50 Ways To Leave Your Lover" of course!

"One Trick Pony" is the album that goes with the movie of the same title Simon produced AND acted in   in 1980. The movie is probably bad from the perspective of a non-fan   but "Jonah" is a fantastic song. Also features "Late In The Evening" of course. What a horn section!

Then there is "Hearts and Bones" which was supposed to the the highly anticipated Simon and Garfunkel comeback album. There is a bootleg with Garfunkel's vocals on it but then Paul decided to erase Art's vocals. The album was a huge flop... It has a strong 80's sound (synthesizers, arrrgh!) but I wouldn't want to miss the title track and "Train in the Distance."

So, I don't know which description sounds most appealing to you but I'd probably start with "There Goes Rhymin' Simon"  

[Love Expresso]

Yes LE, there is a nice Paul Simon forum. Sorry for criticising your divine Bob here, heading over to paul-simon.info where people understand me  

I thought this was a pro-Paul Simon thread???
 

I had a very similar "450 words" post ready to post, but I preferred not to post it and deleted it. Yes, this is a thread about Paul Simon's new album, and it is part of the General Discussion Thread of the A Mark In Time Mark Knopfler forum.

Btw, Bob is not "my divine", probably just as little as Paul Simon is "your divine". But comparing the artistic power of Bob Dylan and Paul Simon is absurd, that's all.
 
So long,

LE

[goldenheart96]

Btw, Bob is not "my divine", probably just as little as Paul Simon is "your divine". But comparing the artistic power of Bob Dylan and Paul Simon is absurd, that's all.
 
So long,

LE

No, it's not. To state that you cannot compare their artistic power is presumptuous.
Besides, they are the same generation, they have the same profession, so of course you can compare them, unless you think Bob is a genius who can't be compared to other songwriters... Which is presumptuous. And silly. But that's just my POV  

Pity you deleted that 450 words post, I'm sure it contained the explanation why my tiny brain can't process Dylan's oevre, and first and foremost, the explanation WTF makes him a genius and superior to other songwriters 

[goldenheart96]

 

"I've lost my harmonica, Albert..." 

[Jackal]

Dum-dee-dee-dum-dum-day ...

Anyone for tennis?

[Love Expresso]

Dum-dee-dee-dum-dum-day ...

Anyone for tennis?

 

I could be Roger then, will you be Rafa? Of course, you can't compare two geniuses, but... anyway...

that guitar part on Dizzling Blue is the best thing on the album.

LE

[Jackal]

Yeah, it's great. My favorite song so far is rewrite. Just love the lyrics and the FUN way he delivers the song. 'Rewrite, that's right' and 'Thaaaank you'. Just love it. 

[dustyvalentino]

I got obsessed with Paul Simon around the same time I got obsessed with MK, about aged 13/14.

Over the years my interest has waned, partly because of a lack of productivity, partly because of the diminishing quality of his work IMO.

I've always generally preferred his solo work and would rank his solo albums like this:

Still Crazy After All These Years (an absolute classic and one of my favourite albums ever)
Graceland
There Goes Rhymin' Simon
Hearts and Bones
One Trick Pony
You're The One
The Rhythm Of The Saints
Paul Simon
Surprise

I've only listened to the new one once so not sure where it would go.

One thing I would say about Simon is that he is one of my favourite guitarists ever. He's not far behind MK IMO (seriously). If you go and listen to the intricate and imaginative fingerpicking parts from his early career, well, they are spectacular. Just my opinion, but I would rate him as a better guitarist than Clapton, who I get bored of easily, playing the same blues licks all the time.

For Simon and Garfunkel albums I would go:

Bridge Over Troubled Water (another stone cold classic)
Bookends
Sounds of Silence
Parsley, Sage Rosemary and Thyme
Wednesday Morning 3AM

With Dylan, I liked him as a kid but as I have got older I have come to appreciate him more and more.

I think it is absolutely fair to compare the two - they are both two of the greatest songwriters of their generation.

Simon has always been more "pop" orientated with more of an emphasis on melodies.

Dylan is more about the lyrics.

The production of Paul Simon's records have been consistently excellent throughout his career. Dylan records are all over the place, although I will concede that it can add charm. Some of his greatest records have mistakes all over them - listen to the organ part on Like a Rolling Stone. Al Kooper was a guitar player really and either he didn't know the chords or was hesitant about playing them because he is a few beats behind on the verses. Vision of Joanna, which may be my favourite record ever, towards the end the band play wrong notes all over the place as they don't know Dylan is extending the verses. A big difference to the intricate production on, say, Bookends.

But as I say, I lean towards Dylan more these days, not least because of the truly excellent Theme Time Radio Hour series. I'm still trying to work through them all but they are truly brilliant. Dylan is hilarious on them.

PS Seen Simon live 3 times (once with S&G) and Dylan once, Simon is better live, if more predictable.