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Author Topic: Dire Straits Sultans of swing, Live in Germany  (Read 5038 times)

OfflineSilvertown

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Dire Straits Sultans of swing, Live in Germany
« on: February 19, 2011, 08:18:50 PM »
Hi there!

I remember that we have talked about that Rockpalast recording before. And we know that it isn

OfflineDutchessy

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Re: Dire Straits Sultans of swing, Live in Germany
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2011, 12:44:51 AM »
In the Netherlands it is available in the record shops...
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OfflineJules

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Re: Dire Straits Sultans of swing, Live in Germany
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2011, 02:07:37 AM »
Its illegal anyway, MKNEWS posted about it time ago.
So Long

OfflineSilvertown

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Re: Dire Straits Sultans of swing, Live in Germany
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2011, 09:14:37 AM »
Yeah, in record shops also here. It

Offlineherlock

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Re: Dire Straits Sultans of swing, Live in Germany
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2011, 10:43:37 AM »
Well, it may chock many of you, but here is my take on this:

I have bought this DVD (From "Immortal"). In France it is -widely- available in all major shops, just like Alchemy and On The Night.
I would not have bought it, should have I felt that I was taking something away from Mark, even very small.
The thing is, Mark and Paul Crowford Management are not the least interested in releasing old stuff. This concert will never see the light of the day officilially. They are not even interested in attempting to block this distribution - I think severall of you tried to email PCM will little success...
So, giving money to people who do not deserve nearly that much for just packaging and distribution ? yes. Taking away money from Mark ? Definitely, not.
So, why not just downloading the booleg for free and make my own packaging ? Well, two reasons:
1/I am lazy and clumsy, and the result I would come up with would not be as nice as this "product",
2/Call me a fool, but I can't help but liking the idea that any average fan, not just the technically aware one, can see/listen to this concert at home...

The day PCM wakes up and blocks these products, I will stop buying them. And above all, the day they start to release quality official products, I will of course buy those... There are so many nice things that were filmed and never released: Wembley 85, Sydney 86, Mandela, TR, SoS, TOL and others from the OES tour, NHB concerts, Madrid 2001, Charity gigs 2002, GL tour in Montreux, just to say a few...

Fighting piracy is everybody's job, including the powerful guys, not just the poor fans !!



Offlinelocalhero1986

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Re: Dire Straits Sultans of swing, Live in Germany
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2011, 09:58:24 PM »
Hmm, well... It's listed on a half-official DK site as well in the discography, I wouldn't worry about it. High taxes, gas prices and being able to complete my education are things in life I'm really worried about. ;) Besides complaining about it doesn't help anyone but only causes heartattacks. You don't have to expect ANYTHING from any copyright/anti piracy organization but earning money. Two years ago a chap had to pay 700 euro's to use a song me and my band wrote and performed in a documentary. You guess, I didn't get one single penny...

I'd say, just download, copy or whatever this bootleg. I ordered a copy about a year ago and yes, it's a nice recording I don't want to miss. ;D Few days ago I discovered a nice DK live recording in the iTunes store, is that illegal then? Come on guys! It's only the government making us think we're all criminals nowadays. ;)

OfflineBanjo99uk

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Re: Dire Straits Sultans of swing, Live in Germany
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2011, 11:41:25 PM »
I agree, if it was released officially I would buy it.  As it is not I have no choice but to buy it illegally.  There is no way I have the time to download, burn and make a nice cover etc for a dvd.  So I do not feel guilty especially as I have paid alot of money to MK over the years.  Don't get me wrong as it is worth every penny but I can't get all the great live stuff that is out there without paying a bootlegger.  I am only talking about video footage as I do use the tracker for audio which is amazing. Also I have tried a few times (admittedly over 8 years ago) to pay other fans for footage but each time they were only interested if i had something to trade which I didn't and that left me in a catch 22 position.  (no win situation)

Offlineds1984

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Re: Dire Straits Sultans of swing, Live in Germany
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2011, 11:17:52 AM »
One thing to remind : bootleg companies use the work of the fans who did record and  author the DVD. 

This show is available for free distribution but if you are too lazy to move your **** for that and prefer to buy from a bootleg compnay DON'T CRY when upset tapers won't share their stuff anymore or artist will forbid free distribution among its fans.

Of course the best thing would be to see all these treasures to be fully officially released uncut and top notch quality.
The haters are those who write shit

Two weeks in Australia and Sydney striptease

Offlinesuperval99

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Re: Dire Straits Sultans of swing, Live in Germany
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2011, 11:25:35 AM »
In the past, when I posted on MKNews Forum there was the "tree" system, which was fine for those who couldn't or wouldn't download from a torrent.   Perhaps this would be useful again!     :)
Goin' into Tow Law....

Offlineherlock

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Re: Dire Straits Sultans of swing, Live in Germany
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2011, 11:29:30 AM »
As I said, where did the artist and/or his management company showed any interest in blocking the release ? I'm sure they could do it if they cared. "You are selling unauthorized material, we are going to sue you...".
I remember when FNAC was selling the "Goldorack" cartoon DVDs, they sold like hot cakes until the author, Go Nagai, treatened to sue because these were illegal copies; the next day they were gone from FNAC.
Plus, most people are completely unaware that this is a bootleg, and are buying it out of good faith from their favourite shop. Why should they be punished for not carrying themselves deep investigations prior to buying ? who would imagine that FNAC would sell illegal stuff ??

Offlineds1984

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Re: Dire Straits Sultans of swing, Live in Germany
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2011, 11:46:18 AM »
But you have to make a difference between buying them unaware that it is a bootleg and buying them fully aware of their illegal nature.

FNAC are closing eyes and make money of it but one day they will get busted again and this will be costly for them. Regarding the law this is under selling counterfeit goods section...

The haters are those who write shit

Two weeks in Australia and Sydney striptease

Offlineherlock

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Re: Dire Straits Sultans of swing, Live in Germany
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2011, 12:05:11 PM »
The main issues is not  the (small) die-hard fan market anyway... I have purchased every *single* CD and DVD that DS/MK has ever released officially, so I really don't think of myself as a thief. And I would *also* of course purchase any official copies of the bootlegs I own... I'm sure many of you did the same.
The main issue is that MK/PCM do not care the least - be it to release stuff or to prevent people from releasing it illegally. Why ? Because the market for music DVDs is very very small, all the more for artists who are not (or not any more) targeted at the mass marget. It may still be an interesting market for Laday Gaga and U2, but not for MK. Rememeber that the RLRR was a very nice product but did not sell well. Not sure about Alchemy sales, though... Plus this aversion he has for anything video-related these days, which I don't know the exact reason but I'm pretty sure has nothing to do with money. 

OfflineBanjo99uk

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Re: Dire Straits Sultans of swing, Live in Germany
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2011, 03:22:44 PM »
One thing to remind : bootleg companies use the work of the fans who did record and  author the DVD. 

This show is available for free distribution but if you are too lazy to move your **** for that and prefer to buy from a bootleg compnay DON'T CRY when upset tapers won't share their stuff anymore or artist will forbid free distribution among its fans.

Of course the best thing would be to see all these treasures to be fully officially released uncut and top notch quality.
[/quote
Im certainly not lazy I just have a thing called a life. Getting upset about bootleggers literally doesn't even reach my radar.

Offlineds1984

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Re: Dire Straits Sultans of swing, Live in Germany
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2011, 05:15:56 PM »
@ Banjo99uk
Tapers also have a life  ;)
Without them, I, you, and bootleggers would get nothing.
Some of them did spend countless hours and money to track the best source and make the best release and share it for free.

The reason of such site like Knopfletk is to provide the stuff for free to a maximum of fan not to see them sold.
And when you are not a releaser, torrenting is not that much life consuming  ;D


@ herlock
We are talking about Dire Straits, a 100 million album copies sold worldwide, not Mark Knopfler.

Not sure that Dire Straits brand being that small even 17 years after they officially disbanded.

And to last, commercial bootleg are not always the best quality version available.
The haters are those who write shit

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Offlinevgonis

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    • greece in dire straits, life in greece
Re: Dire Straits Sultans of swing, Live in Germany
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2011, 02:12:41 AM »
Wow, just saw the thread and i have to say this: I did buy both DVD and double CD from big stores in Athens, and even though i had strong indications and suspicions that this was not completely official, i had to buy it. Let's face it, after countless hours of listening to poor recordings and watching hazy videos, this was a quality package, even as a bootleg. I would buy it anyway, to tell you the truth, but that is not the fan speaking, but the collector. The other truth is that I do believe that some things are for too few people to be commercial viable. Who would want 300 versions of Brothers in arms song? Don't be hasty to raise your arms, your vote is already considered. Well i would too, but i would never have the time and nerves to listen to all of them and to grade them and decide which one i prefer. It is a nightmare. So if you think of it logically, what's the use of having it if you never listen to it? But collectors are not rational! And for the radical thinkers, you have Christopher Small saying that recorded music harms the musical experience. And  Todd Rundgren actually suggesting that the only way for new artist to live from their music, is not to legally chase the bootleggers but by PLAYING LIVE GIGS. Now we are on the verge of a new way of thinking. The younger generation will certainly see the world from a different ankle. If I say vinyl and a 30 years old says WHAT?, imagine a 5 year old saying the same thing about CDs in 10 years time. But back to the topic: if you break down the ownership and royalties pyramid behind each song, you wouldn't know from whom to hide. Record companies, royalties collectors, composers, performers, producers, etc. The sense of legal, logical and right to do, should always go hand in hand. Here we can deal with the logical part, but not with the rest. It is like an empty- abandoned house that you get in. You don't  bother anybody, but the owner can have the police arrest you for trespassing. You can't see logic from his side, but it doesn't matter since he has the law on his side (pan intended) . Have you ever considered what you pay for when you buy a CD or record? I have ten versions of the every DS record and i paid for each and everyone of them, more than the value of the vinyl, plastic or aluminum. The "license" to listen to the songs is always limited to me, so in that sense i am crazy, since I bought this license ten times. Would you buy the same song from itunes ten times? The answer to this is easy, No you wouldn't but you recognize that the reason i bought  there records are the slight differences in the cover art. So we step into the collector's world with other laws and logic. But at the same time this is the answer to the dilemma of bootleg recordings. You can have rules, but one set for each world, never mixing them up. You can even set your own rules but it makes no difference, since you are just the last wheel, always right and always outlawed. Having a bootleg recording on CD or downloaded is equally illegal. They don't allow you to have it, they just tolerate it and it's on their discretion to revoke this "tolerance".   
As for the "ethical"dilemma" of people profiteering from somebody else's bootleg recording, i believe it is not an issue. First of all because the market is way too limited to make a profit, so it is fan based therefore money go just to cover expenses. And you get something solid and sometimes beautiful, better from the official releases. Bootleg companies are relatively short lived for one reason: to make some profit you have to release many recordings from many artists. Thus increasing the possibilities that one of them will come after you and close you down.  Secondly because the choice is always yours, not to buy. You can't fall into temptation if it doesn't exist, but true characters are the ones that deal with the temptation. The others are like the stickers on records "Parental advisory...". A hole in the water. (a Greek proverb). Third you can't be asking for ethical rules among bootleggers, even if the driving force is money.Especially if it is money.But if they are collectors it may be even worse. Have you ever read the Antigua stamp by Robert Graves? A collector is a peculiar creature. Collecting is the art of adding value to things that normally don't have any. And since value is added only when many more others are after the same things, then you can guess where we are going. An original silver bootleg has a high priced, when an exact copy (CDR) has none.What are you buying the recording or the medium that we call record or CD?
Anyway to conclude in a lighter tone:  I was reading the book "vinyl junkies" (an exquisite read) and he was describing the following situation. A man going to a record annual fair with a few records to sell:Styx, Reo Speedwagon, Boston and so on. These records have sold by the truckload, so when the shopkeepers see them they burst out laughing and usually refuse to buy them at all. When they do buy them, they usually offer 10 cents a piece, which is ridiculous when you consider how much you have paid for them in the first place. But the ridiculous is yet to come. Go again, after a while to the same vendors and ask if they have the same records for sale. Most of them will quickly shuffle through their stock and give you the record. The price will be several dollars! Dare to ask them why and they will give you the usual good cop "it is in mind condition/promo copy/rare printing/has the singers fingerprints-sweat-saliva on it/the guitarist breathed on it and the drummer looked to the direction of the very copy you hold" and the bad cop "don't waste my time, take it or leave it, you don't know the expenses/trouble/sacrifices etc." It is always like that. Go figure!               
Come on, it is not funny anymore.

 

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