Lindes sad departure (Ed's view?)

[dustyvalentino]

Chris will speak for himself, but I would imagine it would be difficult for a top, pro level guitar player to sit doing basic chords while MK is showing off with the widdly bits

It really depends on the mindset and maturity of the second guitar player. A young hothead who just can't wait to play a long, fancy solo just isn't the right person. A more mature person knows he/she isn't the one with the name on the marquee and understands he/she is there to support the star. I can imagine both Hal and Jack might have found this difficult. People like Phil and Richard not so much. Just a different level of professionalism.

But the point is that this situation isn't unique for Mark and his rhythm guitarists. I mean, it applies equally well to Eric C., David Gilmour, and many more.

Difficult? For Hal and Jack? These guys are and were accomplished players. Both were excellent guitarists in their own right. A fact, especially in Hal's case where he went onto write scores for various films and tv programs. Jack, well i'm deeply saddened at the lack of attention he has had since his death.

I absolutely love Mr Knopfler when it comes to his guitar tones, playing, songwriting and vocals pre 1991, Love Over Gold and Making Movies are top top albums, but many of you are obviously semi delusional. He was a difficult person to get on with in the Dire Straits days. If it wasn't for those days i'm not sure if we'd be here talking about his solo career.

With regards to my original point about the Terry Williams' interview a few years back, clearly there was an issue with Hal leaving the band and Mark Knopfler. Whilst I brought up the point due to it being ignored amongst various Q and A's in previous years I shall now leave it as Jon in his book nor Ed have commented substantially about it. My hunch was correct but sometimes things are better off left unsaid.

"Down the telegraph road..."

Do I remember correctly that from the last Box DS LIVE 1978-1992 the concert On The Night is dedicated to Jack Sonni? I know, it may seem strange.

No idea I’m afraid. It should be if it isn’t.

Jack Sonni story is a bit unusual.

Jack was a guitar seller working for Rudy's Music, he was not a pro tourer muso.

So is involvement with being part of the Dire Straits band is something that had 0.001 % chance to happen. And it happened. The luckiest guitar player on earth?

And may I say that he had not the deep will to be that, because after the BIA tour he could have tried to get the same seat with another bands, maybe he had tried, but actually got another seat, still performing on guitar.

The luckiest? You need to listen to the two podcasts Jack did not long before his passing.
He did try other possibilities and they just didn't pan out. ….I’m still baffled as to why he wasn’t asked to do OES ( no disrespect to Phil ) though what Jack lays out is a huge clue (especially the end of the second podcast). .

[dustyvalentino]

Thousands of musicians could only dream about playing with the likes of Oscar Peterson, Buddy Rich, or M Knopfler. And if you think playing the second fiddle offends you, go ahead and show people how it's done.

As usual (sadly) your take on the subject is wildly wrong.
I have spent an entire 40 year career as a support player to bigger name artists.
Working with Paul McCartney immediately before Mark, Paul would be upbeat after every show, complimenting us all on a job well done. In rehearsals for the tour Paul announced he wanted everyone to have a moment in the show. I worked up an intro to 'Coming Up'.
If you study any corporate handbook, about running a business successfully, it's about building a team so everyone feels valued. then rewarding the team for the things they are doing right. No one wants to work for someone when you don't feel valued and when everyday starts with a scowl.
Your last sentence in the quote above is so crazy bad.
It's a creative life, it isn't about who has the biggest balls. The support players absolutely understand 100% what their role is. For example, after a two hour show with McCartney or Straits, I never felt like the standing ovation had anything to do with my role, I felt it was all about Paul and Paul's songs, or Mark and Mark's songs.No problem whatsoever, I was just thrilled to be up there....part of the team.
If you are made to feel disposable, not valued, not part of a team, then you'll probably drift away and work with someone who does value what you bring to the job.

Hm. I can't see how Quizzaciously states anything other than you, in a nutshell. Just in his own words. Maybe there was a little misunderstanding on your side?

LE

I don't see any misunderstanding at all.

I imagine it must have been a fun gig being the second guitarist on the OES tour.

Yes. famously the OES tour was a fun time for all involved.

I always think of the Beach Boys “ Fun, fun, fun” when I think of OES.

I imagine it must have been a fun gig being the second guitarist on the OES tour.

Yes. famously the OES tour was a fun time for all involved.

Specially when you would had liked to be with Eric Clapton instead.

I am busting my bladder trying not to comment here. Oh dear…I just wet the bed.

Speaking of EC, wonder how he enjoyed being MK’s number two on a famous occasion. Seemed to like it alright.

You are way, way overthinking this.
EC and MK were ( are longtime mates). M playing with E was a random, unplanned, FUN thing which developed into more tours than I think either of them had anticipated.
M was free, E needed a second guitarist, why not?
I will tell you M received NO payment for ANY show he did with Eric, not even a per diem! Consequently I wasn’t paid anything either…more than happy to do and to travel with them and Eric’s great band .

Speaking of EC, wonder how he enjoyed being MK’s number two on a famous occasion. Seemed to like it alright.

MK has also been a sidekick to him on occasions. Probably just down to mutual respect.

As usual Peter says in a few words what I seem to need to write an essay about .

Speaking of EC, wonder how he enjoyed being MK’s number two on a famous occasion. Seemed to like it alright.

MK has also been a sidekick to him on occasions. Probably just down to mutual respect.

I still remember telling how great was to scape to waching scenes of violence (he was then working with Guy on "Last Exit to Brooklyn" score) to have fun playing with Clapton during his RAH residences. I guess that fun helped a lot to convince MK to go on tour with Eric.

Fucking DREADFUL film. Absolute shite ( I wonder how many of you have actually seen it…I bet none!) It had nothing to do with MK and EC ..that was RANDOM. Got it? RANDOM.
From memory it was Eric’s idea as he lay in the bath looking down at the unemployed one cold and sparkly evening, or it might have been M trying to remember the chords to “ Badge”…"ah, I know, I’ll call Eric “ and so it started.

Hm. I can't see how Quizzaciously states anything other than you, in a nutshell. Just in his own words. Maybe there was a little misunderstanding on your side?

LE

Really, then you are equally misguided.
Professional musicians go into a sideman gig fully aware of the conditions. You are there to support the artist. It has ZERO to do with ego and needing to show people how you are as 'good' as Mark Knopfler.
Like I said - go and study any manual on team building and a happy workforce. There are thousands out there. In business we know there are chairmen and managers, also plain old employees. But the BET way to get the BEST out if your employees is to make them feel part of the team, let them know they are valued. If you don't, they'll go and find a different job where they DO feel valued.
I don't think most second guitarists in Dire Straits ever felt valued enough. Especially if (like the drummers) you aren't included in the recordings.

Speaking of EC, wonder how he enjoyed being MK’s number two on a famous occasion. Seemed to like it alright.

MK has also been a sidekick to him on occasions. Probably just down to mutual respect.

More like a guest star. Has any artist in their own right committed to Dire Straits for a year long world tour?
Every single one has been a career support player, even Paul Franklin.
Bruce Springsteen has kept the same 'support players' for decades. probably because they all feel a valued member of his team.

Young Chris again.
And again, 110% correct ( I had to laugh re the drummers comment).
Yes, once it became a regular thing M got “billed” as “guest" (to help E sell tickets, ha ha ha).

[dustyvalentino]

Then again there's Richard Bennett who's stuck with Mark for Mark's entire solo career, including studio work and touring. I think we can and should differentiate between DS Mark and solo Mark.

Let's not forget there's Glenn Worf and Guy Fletcher. Paul Franklin and Danny Cummings are always around.

I dealt with those guys in the Q and A.

In my experience, Mark treated Chris White and Paul Franklin very well.
Both Paul and Chris created a lot of their own parts in the songs and were encouraged to do so. It was clear to me that Mark highly valued their input.
It has to be said (on the flipside) that some people hang around because it's a good gig, it pays well, the conditions (venues, travel and hotels) are very good and it suits their needs for exposure and sponsors.
In the end I'm not making a blanket judgement on Mark, my original input was about the revolving door of second guitarists. I think it's true to say it's a very tough gig, living up to Mark's standards and often not being appreciated for what you DO bring to the gig.
The whole tangent about 'being too big for your boots', so you should start your own band and see how well you do..... is just a nonsense.
The point remains.... If you obviously value a side musicians input to the music, and you encourage an atmosphere that we are 'all in this together', when we do well it's to all our credit, if we do badly we should ALL look at ourselves, that encourages people to stick around.

Sometimes people just weren't called back, like Terry Williams for the 'On Every Street' tour.
I'm told that Mark is of a lighter, less intense mentality since the early 90's. I have no doubt, if you fitted in, that recording and touring with Mark in the solo years might have been musically rewarding and a fun experience.

Fuck it’s Dave Weckl AGAIN….
Correct 110%.
Totally agree re Chris White and Paul Franklin.
Yes..one person definitely “hung around” like a fart in a two man submarine but I’ve covered that in the Q and A …..
Agreed re second guitarists starting with David for sure and I’d say Chris is correct ( answer 37) and my experience with Richard, Glenn, Jim etc was wholly pleasurable, professional and yes, fun. They are a great bunch.

Sometimes people just weren't called back, like Terry Williams for the 'On Every Street' tour.
I'm told that Mark is of a lighter, less intense mentality since the early 90's. I have no doubt, if you fitted in, that recording and touring with Mark in the solo years might have been musically rewarding and a fun experience.

The above totally explains why some "Solo MK" musicians are coming back regardless of studio recording or tours.
Makes good sense. Thanks Chris.

Well not anymore I think….

So…I hope that’s sorted that thread and now you can move on to multi-tracks. You know, WHERE ARE THE TAPES?
Now THAT’S a FUN topic ( and will never be resolved).

[Elin N]

Dusty, could you write it at the beginning of the post when you reply on behalf of Ed? I did catch it early this time, by "wet the bed" 

[wayaman]

Hahahaha where are the tapes???

Lol.

Thanks Ed.

[Chris W]

At least you've heard from two people who know many of the people involved, rather than the conjecture from a far off land.

[dustyvalentino]

Dusty, could you write it at the beginning of the post when you reply on behalf of Ed? I did catch it early this time, by "wet the bed" 

I did write a post stating that the following answers were from Ed

[Elin N]

Ah, sorry, I missed a whole page! My fault 

[JF]

a big big thank you to Ed for all this value informations 

very much appreciated

[Billy’s Tune]

Re the solo guys coming back …

Well not anymore I think…..

If you take that together with Guy saying a new MK album isnt currently planned then my guess is ODR is the final MK record - I suspect he is quietly retiring and dealing with whatever health issues currently trouble him. It’s sad but part of ageing. Of course this could be seen as wildly speculating…

[dustyvalentino]

Re the solo guys coming back …

Well not anymore I think…..

If you take that together with Guy saying a new MK album isnt currently planned then my guess is ODR is the final MK record - I suspect he is quietly retiring and dealing with whatever health issues currently trouble him. It’s sad but part of ageing. Of course this could be seen as wildly speculating…

Yes, kind of shocking to think that it's the end after all this time. 

[Pottel]

Bear in mind that being the second guitar to Mark Knopfler has got to be the hardest gig in music.
It's like being the second pianist to Oscar Petersen or second drummer to Buddy Rich.

But why exactly? Because of Mark's high expectations (are they so much higher than other A-list artists?)? Or do you refer to Mark's personality? Buddy Rich for instance could be downright nasty to his band. This may have applied to Mark in the past, but I don't think Richard Bennett for instance would have stuck with Mark for nearly 30 years if that were the case after disbanding DS. Or is there something musically that makes it particularly challenging?

Don’t be naive.
I dealt with the Nashville bunch in the Q and A. The answer re Richard, Glenn, Jim, Chad etc is in there.

Chris will speak for himself, but I would imagine it would be difficult for a top, pro level guitar player to sit doing basic chords while MK is showing off with the widdly bits

Got it. Yes there’s been alot of widdling over the years, especially down the porcelain bowl.

Chris will speak for himself, but I would imagine it would be difficult for a top, pro level guitar player to sit doing basic chords while MK is showing off with the widdly bits

It would be difficult for anybody suffering from egomania If everybody wanted to play the first fiddle, we wouldn't have an orchestra. I always thought all the controversy surrounding Mark's musicians was simply the battle of egos or, in rare cases, other personal reasons.

Thousands of musicians could only dream about playing with the likes of Oscar Peterson, Buddy Rich, or M Knopfler. And if you think playing the second fiddle offends you, go ahead and show people how it's done.

Reply 15.
See later.

I wonder why there are always people with a cloth polishing MK's ego without the slightest need? Everyone is self-centered, except MK, everyone has flaws, except MK, someone may have a personal problem with MK, except MK... it's so predictable, sorry for being blunt, but things can be different, especially when things point in another direction and I know someone might say... But we never hear what MK has to say about each case (in fact, he has spoken in the past about DK and PW's departure, but it was all very superficial). In the end, silence can be very convenient and I'm not here to criticize MK's stance on this controversial subject, but from a researcher's point of view it is inevitable to fail to analyze the facts, how the story was constructed. By the way, I have an interview from 1985 where it is categorically mentioned that Hal was fired from the band by Mark, it is in Portuguese, (Portugal magazine), I will transcribe it into English:


"Mark, what's left of the original line-up? Who are the members of the 85 version of DIRE STRAITST? JI-Besides TERRY WILLIAMS and ALAN CLARK, who were already part of the band on the last tour, there are three new members: CHRIS WRIGHT on saxophone, JACK SONNI, replacing guitarist HAL LINDES, who left us, and finally GUY FLETCHER, who you may know as he was part of ROXY MUSIC. I think we now represent a much more solid team and the work demonstrated on this album may well be the best proof of that. M&S-What were the reasons that led HAL LINDES to leave the group? J.I.-HAL LINDES is part of the group that is currently accompanying Tina Turner on her world tour, but it was Mark who made the decision to fire him. I think he must have other projects, since his interest has always been in forming his own group. M&S-Do you think that these personnel changes could jeopardize, precisely through the introduction of new instruments, the success that was once (and continues to be) attributed to the DIRE STRAITS sound? J.I-No, on the contrary. There is necessarily a new exchange of ideas and that contributes to a certain progress. But the most important thing is the extraordinary atmosphere of camaraderie that exists within the group, which is understood to be fundamental when we spend more than a year on tour!"


I love this type of period material, it helps us understand how history and its narratives were constructed, sometimes we find coherence and contradictions.

That interview you quote is odd.
It seems to be with M and J but only J answers?
John’s answer re Hal is completely wrong re dates.
Hal and Alan played with Tina in May 1984 NOT 1985 and Hal never mentioned forming his own group when I was around.
Tina fired him by the way….she actually called me personally to ask if I minded ( bless) as did her manager Roger Davies.
Since I wasn’t representing him I said “no” I didn't mind ( especially when Roger told me why). I’ve no reason to think Hal didn't see his future with DS until he was let go.
John’s comment re camaraderie is 100% bang on.

Chris will speak for himself, but I would imagine it would be difficult for a top, pro level guitar player to sit doing basic chords while MK is showing off with the widdly bits

It really depends on the mindset and maturity of the second guitar player. A young hothead who just can't wait to play a long, fancy solo just isn't the right person. A more mature person knows he/she isn't the one with the name on the marquee and understands he/she is there to support the star. I can imagine both Hal and Jack might have found this difficult. People like Phil and Richard not so much. Just a different level of professionalism.

But the point is that this situation isn't unique for Mark and his rhythm guitarists. I mean, it applies equally well to Eric C., David Gilmour, and many more.

Correct and perceptive.
Both Hal and Jack suffered a bit from the lack of maturity you refer to, both musically and the way they behaved personally ….snapping fingers at waiters kind of thing, yelling at hotel receptionists.
They were cured of that!

no mr. B. i meant Hal went to see MK at the RAH. it may have been poorly construed but that IS what it says there ;-)

[dustyvalentino]

The reply below to Pottel is from Ed:

[dustyvalentino]

no mr. B. i meant Hal went to see MK at the RAH. it may have been poorly construed but that IS what it says there ;-)
[/quote]

I think you are mixing up Phil with Hal ( your posts Jan 27 ).
I have no idea ( or interest) in what either does and haven’t claimed to.
 I don’t mind being corrected (at all ) but I only queried Phil “regularly” going there ( which HAS been corrected ) , I didn't mention Hal in that context.
Funnily enough the last time I saw Hal was one of the Cream reunion concerts in, I think, 2005  at the RAH, and we had a nice chat.
I hope that clears things up.

[Viervalen]

Amen


And know, Ed please write that book.