About "In the sky"

[dmg]

I think it's because we all have our own interpretations of them and they can have mean different things to each of us, perhaps even in a personal way.  Maybe these threads are rendered pointless in view of this;  I think one can overanalyse a songs' meaning.  To a point we can discuss where the idea came from and what some of the lyrics mean but at the end of the day the song as a whole is always open to interpretation and that, I think, is why Mark doesn't discuss this.

Of course, you're right with everything, dmg. But what is a great advantage of this forum, that there are many interested and clever members, who like to think about the meanings. And who are interested in that exchange. I know that there are songs that will stay unclear to a certain point. "In the sky" is a good example for this. But then i'm even more interested what other listeners are thinking about it. And also "In the sky" becomes in that way  clearer to me - in very little steps. For me it's not only about a perfect understanding, but also a way to reflect upon the own life. And it was a good motivation to listen to the song for many times and to get very deep into it. Without this discussion i wouldn't have paid too much attention to it. But now: I love this song! And the variety of thoughts it produces! And the documentation of it!
And another advantage: the threads keep staying. Who knows? In ten years we get the decisive hint and the songs become clearer. Then we've a good documentation about our way of thinking and the way it was supposed to be. Could be funny and interesting.   

Yes, I see where you're coming from YTC.

May I add also that I agree with Foma's point and would further add that I think the melody is probably more important to me than the lyrics because you can listen to a tune blocking out the words (sometimes can't make them out anyway ) but the melody is an ever-present that cannot be ignored.

[Hophead]

I think it's because we all have our own interpretations of them and they can have mean different things to each of us, perhaps even in a personal way.  Maybe these threads are rendered pointless in view of this;  I think one can overanalyse a songs' meaning.  To a point we can discuss where the idea came from and what some of the lyrics mean but at the end of the day the song as a whole is always open to interpretation and that, I think, is why Mark doesn't discuss this.

Of course, you're right with everything, dmg. But what is a great advantage of this forum, that there are many interested and clever members, who like to think about the meanings. And who are interested in that exchange. I know that there are songs that will stay unclear to a certain point. "In the sky" is a good example for this. But then i'm even more interested what other listeners are thinking about it. And also "In the sky" becomes in that way  clearer to me - in very little steps. For me it's not only about a perfect understanding, but also a way to reflect upon the own life. And it was a good motivation to listen to the song for many times and to get very deep into it. Without this discussion i wouldn't have paid too much attention to it. But now: I love this song! And the variety of thoughts it produces! And the documentation of it!
And another advantage: the threads keep staying. Who knows? In ten years we get the decisive hint and the songs become clearer. Then we've a good documentation about our way of thinking and the way it was supposed to be. Could be funny and interesting.   

I agree with you yontwocrows that the exchange of ideas here may lead us to a clearer understanding of his songs..but I don't think that there will ever be a 'decisive hint'..I think Mark will keep that one to himself. The only person that will ever understand Mark's songs completely is Mark himself. Yes..we can discern where his inspiration came from..whether it was a person, work of art...or an event. But we will never know  the underlying meaning behind the song..that's his to keep.

[JF]

I totally agree with dmg and Foma.

I pay far much more attention to melody/music than lyrics, mostly when it's a song not in my native language.

of course, when I listen to french songs, lyrics are important....but even in this case, I think that a nice melody with subtle arrangements, a good "groove", "swing", "feeling", "flavour", or whatever you name it, would catch my mind at first, more than lyrics.

And I can say like Foma that I listen songs for decades, that I don't understand a word, sometimes, even not the title !     

Like most people I think, the first thing Iremember from a song is the melody.

I was listeing to Let it be and past masters just now with my daughter, and I said to her : Macca is one of the finest composer. He composed tones of gorgeous melodies, and that's why so many of his songs are well known, not for the lyrics.

On the other hand, Dylan wrote fabulous lyrics, far more developped than Beatles (well I only guess, because I don't understand all), but sometimes the melody is...well where is it ?

[yontwocrows]

Haha,
no guys, I'm not against you, my dear tune, melody and music-lovers! 
There must be space to discuss the lyrics and the music. And for me a dream would be to combine it!
dmg, blocking out the words is as wrong as blocking out the music. They both belong together. Didn't - by the way - Mark refers to the way Bob Dylan uses lyrics as a rhythm-element and how he adopted that in his songs? Please don't block them out! But what i miss now in the Back to Tupelo thread is a music-analyses of the song, because the lyrics are now well discussed. I can't do it, but would be interested, what is going on there from a musical point of view. I'm - by the way - also reading fomas tab sheets, and try them out on my guitar. But, dmg, you're right, i can give better input about the lyrics.
(if there will be a song section it would be cool to have a lyric thread and a music thread to each song, but i don't know, if it too complicate) So everbody could go very deep into the songs! 

[yontwocrows]

Ah, by the way, when we're going to discuss lyrics and music in general, i think, it would be better to start a new thread, so that the about "In the sky thread" is not interrupted.

[Lestroid]

As far as the music and song goes - I have always thought that MK puts as much thought into combining the two elements as he does into the lyrics themselves.  I always think of him as singing a duet with his guitar.  Sometimes the guitar emphasizes what is said in the lyrics, and sometimes the guitar works like a "greek chorus" - in other words, the character in the song may say one thing that may or may not be the truth, but the guitar always speaks the truth.  Like in "Boom Like That", Ray Kroc is being a smooth talker, acting charming, but the aggressive guitar gives away his true nature.  To get back to "In the Sky", the music almost sounds like a lullaby, very soothing and full of love, which is at the heart of the lyrics. 

My thoughts on that troublesome verse about the "hard bitten stranger, deaf as a post" - it seems to me that he is talking about critics who will say negative things about his loved ones' creative work, but he wants her to know that he will always support her efforts and to not let the jerks stop her from continuing with her passion.

[dillzh123]

Death to the author and all that, but it's likely that the lyric was composed in a steam-of-conscious, Astral Weeks-esque style, with a communication of feeling being its' primary concern rather than the conveying of thematic meaning.

[yontwocrows]

it's  certainly about feelings! at the moment i can't contribute to the thread much, although i keep thinking about the song. My last thought was:
"If it is a love song, it's a beautiful love song!" 

[yontwocrows]

I put aside some of my initial thoughts about the lyrics and, reading again all your opinions, I got to a conclusion, with some possibilities.

Nababo, What have been your initial thoughts? Just curious?

[nababo]

I put aside some of my initial thoughts about the lyrics and, reading again all your opinions, I got to a conclusion, with some possibilities.

Nababo, What have been your initial thoughts? Just curious?

Well, I didn't wrote because I thought I could confuse myself more when my aim as I was writing was to clarify my ideas... Sometimes it's hard not being a English-speaker. Words don't come easy...

I had two contradictory thoughts about the song, and a third, "neutral" one. Or it was Mark talking about himself or he was putting himself in the place of a woman waiting for his "soul baladeer". The third is that he was thinking about his own brother. That was it, weak theories.

I discharged the first one because it came to my mind that MK is humble and shy enough not to put himself in such a high position. As someone wrote afterwards, he doesn't consider himself a poet, despite we know he truly is.

The second theory is gone because, paying closer attention to the lyrics, the words doesn't seem to me "too feminine", (can I say this?). To my senses, the lyrics lack sensibility...

And the third doesn't cope in because yet the brothers are not in good terms. But this meaning came to mind because I always felt a Van Morrison feel in the song, but I also think the "In the sky" could be easily written by David or at leas twould perfectly fit in his latest albuns.

And about what I DO think the lyrics are about, a poet, I still think he wrote it to his wife. A love declaration from a man to a woman, with not ordinary "love words" but still strong ones, words of respect and recognition, written by someone who don't just love his lover, but also admires her and acknowledges the importance or her presence to help him to stand in the course.

Anyway, thanks for asking. And you and in this forum all have a good weekend!

[yontwocrows]

And about what I DO think the lyrics are about, a poet, I still think he wrote it to his wife. A love declaration from a man to a woman, with not ordinary "love words" but still strong ones, words of respect and recognition, written by someone who don't just love his lover, but also admires her and acknowledges the importance or her presence to help him to stand in the course.

Thinking about all the last posts i get the impression that we all "feel" this meaning you summarize now, or am i wrong? I mean, even I - who was initially against it - admit that it's a love song!

What do you think about my new theory, which is an old theory but slightly modified? Today i read an interview with Mark - can't find it now - where he again expressed that he feels like beeing a captain on a boat crossing the oceans when he is touring. (That statement was not in connection with privateering but years before).
Verse 1 - 3: I can't get this out of my head when listening to the first three verses. I think they are said by the waiting person to the one who comes home. They describe the high feeling, the proud, the freedom the travelling person has. It's like a hero (a viking) coming home. But i think there is also a lot of criticism shining through.
Verse 4: The perspective is changing: The hard-bitten stranger is the person coming home. (LE said that she can imagine MK talking about himself as deaf stranger, and i agree. Have the same feeling) This are the feelings this person has. Beeing away for a long time and somehow a kind of a stranger. Coming home to the fire-place where the poet's dreams (the dreams of the person who stayed at home) roast. All of the sudden he is confronted with something else. With the story of the other person, he doesn't know what happened all the time, he doesn't know about the sorrows, sometimes pain, because he had adventure and so on. And so all the glory (of touring etc) is falling off like rain. It's not a true value.
Verse 5: Are spoken by the person coming home to the other person. You're as strong as a sea boat. You're my beacon, without you I can't do it. And all of the sudden all the songs, and the good mood and laughters of the tour are not so important as they were, they are carried away in the sky.

What do you think about this theory?

[nababo]

And about what I DO think the lyrics are about, a poet, I still think he wrote it to his wife. A love declaration from a man to a woman, with not ordinary "love words" but still strong ones, words of respect and recognition, written by someone who don't just love his lover, but also admires her and acknowledges the importance or her presence to help him to stand in the course.

Thinking about all the last posts i get the impression that we all "feel" this meaning you summarize now, or am i wrong? I mean, even I - who was initially against it - admit that it's a love song!

What do you think about my new theory, which is an old theory but slightly modified? Today i read an interview with Mark - can't find it now - where he again expressed that he feels like beeing a captain on a boat crossing the oceans when he is touring. (That statement was not in connection with privateering but years before).
Verse 1 - 3: I can't get this out of my head when listening to the first three verses. I think they are said by the waiting person to the one who comes home. They describe the high feeling, the proud, the freedom the travelling person has. It's like a hero (a viking) coming home. But i think there is also a lot of criticism shining through.
Verse 4: The perspective is changing: The hard-bitten stranger is the person coming home. (LE said that she can imagine MK talking about himself as deaf stranger, and i agree. Have the same feeling) This are the feelings this person has. Beeing away for a long time and somehow a kind of a stranger. Coming home to the fire-place where the poet's dreams (the dreams of the person who stayed at home) roast. All of the sudden he is confronted with something else. With the story of the other person, he doesn't know what happened all the time, he doesn't know about the sorrows, sometimes pain, because he had adventure and so on. And so all the glory (of touring etc) is falling off like rain. It's not a true value.
Verse 5: Are spoken by the person coming home to the other person. You're as strong as a sea boat. You're my beacon, without you I can't do it. And all of the sudden all the songs, and the good mood and laughters of the tour are not so important as they were, they are carried away in the sky.

What do you think about this theory?

Well, my much aprreciated forum fellow, you have added so many rich inputs I don't know even where to start from.

But one think you wrote back in page 2 summarized not only what can be said about "In the sky", but more or less about Mark's entire catalogue: his lyrics are metaphors for the struggle of life. In this case is more obvious, but MK sees life as a journey, and creates beautiful imageries around it. "Telegraph road", in my opinion, is perfect in this aspect. Some writers do this talking about time - Tom Waits, some Gilmour. Some, like Sting, one of my favourite lyricists, do by using snapshots of places. Some, like MK, uses the idea of the eternal return, the journey wya and back home - himself.

My opinion itself about the song had become clearer when I read Love Expresso ideas, so I just wrote in order to put myself in the line of agreement with the general consensus of the forum.

Back to the track, I agree that MK may see himself as a captain, but I don't think it's the case here. In "In the sky", the main character is not him, but the subject of his description.

I also second you regarding to the first parts of the song. But I go in another direction from the middle on. I think that the "hard-bitten stranger" is someone else, who had criticized Kitty. He's "deaf as a post" because he doesn't understand the words that she had produced. "He can't know the story" of the struggle Kitty had done to reach where she is. Then he finishes with words of affection, in a way that tries to make her don't mind about criticisms. And shows her how strong, bright, she is.

Um grande abra

[yontwocrows]

Thank you for your kind words. I hug you back, fellow 
And a lot of hugs to all of you, i like every idea and way of thinking that was posted. I've listened to the song now really really often. At least i've the feeling to understand it better. I tried to understand every reading that was comunicated. This was very successful, because I now understand why a few are of the opinion he is talking to a kid, others he is talking to his wife, and so on - which i didn't before. I don't know which version is "right", listening to the song every version touches me somehow. I think this is the power of this song - it can be used for so many situations where two human beings love each other. (I think this is consense: It's a song about two persons who care for each other / Some kind of problem shines through and irritates the situation / one tries to console the other).

A few questions, fellows:

Who stands at the fire where a poet's dreams roast

Do you really think that this has a negative meaning?  Because for me it can be positive!
Do you think that the stranger roasts the dreams?

[Rkd]

I was driving along today and "Into the Sky" came on my car system. It has always been one of my fav songs by MK, but I never took time to analyze it. All of the interpretations that you have posted have been fasinating to me. It's like a literature course - MK 101!  At any rate as I listened to the song, I reflected on all of your thoughts and it brought bountiful meaning and pleasure to me with the added bonus of letting me forget for a few minutes about the environmental threats I am currently fighting in my backyard so Thank You Everyone!