you know JF, I would like to say that viewing these "best of " lists under the prism of logic, is a secret pleasure for me.
I, too, think that when it comes to such matters, personal taste is all that matters. I believe that you totally got me about this being my favourite list, but they are important for me! I will try to elaborate, with some logical statements though. You can consider it a game!
Let's re-examine some parts of your post, just for the brain teasing experience!
"It's always difficult to answer to the question : is this musician /artist a "reference" in his art ?"Well, no it is not easy, but on the other hand the whole triviality of this matter for us fans, is a paying job for some people, namely the critics, historians, fellow musicians, record companies, etc. This means that if there is an "objective" truth, we, as fans would be probably unable to know it, simply because we can not fully explore the subject due to lack of time and knowledge. This leaves us with one option really: choosing who to believe from the aforementioned people in the business, adding some of our favorites.
"IMHO, an "important" artist is a one whom we can say : art has been different after him. The way to create art changed after him. He influenced other artists.So, in our case, the question is : has the way of playing guitar changed after this or this guitarist ? Can we say there was guitar in rock music before him, and after him ? Has he influenced other guitarists ?
I like your term of "pioneers", it's exactly what can "describe" an "important" guitarist. If he is a "pionneer" in his category, it means that nobody else did what he did before him"ONE of the criteria to define if an artist is "important" can be if art has been different after him. But it is merely one of the criteria, not everything. I believe that an artist is a man who tries to create art and art is a vague thing, more like an emperor's crown some people award to the results of an artists work. So in fact artists, their creations and art are three completely different things.
I find that there are several paradoxes if we go down to "pioneer" path. Of course, if you read again my post you will see that I have other two factors in the same sentence:
"Exquisite records, in the beginning of the rock era". So I guess, the word "pioneers" is not good by itself. You can be a pioneer that nobody listens. If an obscure guitarist/composer plays/writes dozens of pieces of music, but none is able to listen to them, they are not going to influence anybody. Is he an artist? If after his death his music is discovered because the trends have gone the way he was composing, would he be considered a paradox or a contemporary artist? But his music hasn't influenced anybody!
That is why, I think consistency of work is a great clue abi\out artists. There are many artists with small body of work that have been in the right place and time and influenced the world. However it is not difficult to have one or a couple of nice songs (see the one hit wonders). So with a little luck, you can influence the world of art. But when the factor luck enters, it means that the "artist" had little control over the produced work. So can we consider him an artist? I could include many musicians here, but the point is that usually we don't know most of the artists that actually conveyed the changes, only the popular ones.
We also have to consider the fake art labels that are placed upon some arts, before they can stand the test of time. Since music, cinema and some other arts are major money making businesses, the companies have been using many marketing tools to convince people about the goodness and artistry of their product. Some times it works so good that it actually influences people.
"... EC has not "revolutionized" the way of playing guitar, such as Jimi or BB King ; but I think that we could say that he had a big influence on many guitarists after him, and I think we can say "there was guitar in the rock music before EC and after EC", I don't think he such to high."I like EC recordings up to 1970. Yardbirds, Bluesbreakers, Cream, Blind Faith. Derek and the dominoes is still one of my all time favourites. After that he had 3-4 fine albums and then an abyss. It is not only his compositions, but the way he plays the guitar. I don't like his tone, his rhythm, nothing. I don't know why they said EC is a god, but surely if he was he has lost his deity status long ago. I believe that EC was the guitarist that was benefited the most from the use of new technollogy/ equipment for the electric guitar. Introducing the new sound has influenced a great many. If we can split (I know we can't because it is very unfair) the luck from the actual ability, Clapton was very lucky.
"K.Richard is THE rhtyhm rock guitarist IMHO, and I think he deserves his place. Rock riffs would never ahve been the same without him. Can we imagine that the Young brothers would have found all these riffs without listenig to K.Richards ?"Hate to admit it but I have a strange relation with the Stones. I have most of their records (I don't have 3 or 4 of them maybe), but fail to see why they still have such a following. Their last fantastic record was "Exile on main street"! After that they had some good ones, but from the 80ies onwards they just had one or two goodish songs in every album. Richards is a damn fine player and I understand your comment and his value, but since I can't enjoy the final outcome, I can not rate him that high. What I mean is that if their career ended in 1979, Richards would be up there. Now he is just mining from these days of old!
"Page is not only a great guitarist, he' also a great producer-arranger-composer. His guitar parts are very tastefull on many recordings, and I like how he blend the blues with prog and oriental music. His influence on many guitarists is obvious. As Louis Bertignac said about Page's solo on Since I've been loving you (recorded in one take in the studio corridor !) : "it's the first time I cried listening a guitar solo"...even if I didn't cry, it's indeed one my all time fav solo , and I think one of the best rock solos IMHO"I like Page very much, even though his last great recordings were with Led Zeppelin, 33 years ago. After that we had very sporadic recordings, that have not aged well, and well, very few people listen to them anymore. I am very fond of Led Zeppelin, and I think that Page was a fantastic arranger-produced for the group. Right time, right place. I am even willing to let his numerous "loans" from other songs and artists go under the radar. But what happened after 1982? Where is the talent?
"I did'nt listen many Green recordings, so maybe my judgment is not valable, but I'd say that his influence is less obvious."Leave everything you do and go out and buy all the Fleetwood Mac records from the Green era and some of his solo material from the mid 70ies to mid 80ies. If I had to pick one from each I would go for "Then play on" and "In the skies". He had influenced many guitarists, (Gary Moore, Santana, Snowy White, and many more like Judas Priest!!!!
) but also influencial was the structure of his original songs and use of some new technology that have used creatively, by incorporating it in the song (listen to Supernatural
from his collaboration with John Mayall) .
"And , don't kill me, but I find that Mark is not such an "important" guitarist in rock music.
It's my favourite one, but it's not the same thing. I love his playing, his tone, but I don't think that he had a great influence on rock guitar "evolution"
I don't like Cobain or Johnny Marr, but I must admit that they had influence in rock music."No, probably he is not, but he has a unique tone (more than Richards, Clapton or Page) that is harder to copy than other guitarists and is based on skill rather than effects, he also composes the songs and produces the albums and he is popular (even if they don't appreciate it because he became known in the mid 80ies baby boomers era-with others like Phil Collins
) and his songs are covered by many artists as diverse as Killers and Kenny Rogers. And he still produces music of quality! A unique tone (which by definition is sort-of breaking new ground) when used with great effect to produce a fine tone is as important to me as changing the route of music (now is that always good?), maybe even more important, because I can actually enjoy the results!
"It's maybe a harsh statement, but I realized this, when I talk with family, friends, co-workers.... when I say "Dire Straits", everyboy says "ah yes, it's just this 80 band", and the only argument I have is that I love them, but in terms of "objective-musical-analysis", I think they can't suffer the comparaison with Dylan, Hendrix, beatles, Stones , Zappa (which I love) or with Bowie-The Cure-Nirvana-... (which I don't like), and I don't find examples to proove their impact and influence in rock history."Same problem over here mon fr
