A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: JF on August 24, 2024, 06:32:51 PM
-
40 years ago, on August 24 1984, Pat O'Connor's film “Cal” was released in American cinemas. The soundtrack is by Mark Knopfler, his second film score.
here is my chronicle, with, of course, the version of the long road by AMiTers :
https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/la-b-o-du-film-cal-par-mark-knopfler-a-40-ans/
-
Great review JF!
The first time I listened to Cal was on a vinyl my childhood friend had brought back from Oslo, an incredible memory, it was so much what I wanted to hear from Mark, pure Celtic music mixed with the sound of Dire Straits.
-
I put my Cal vinyl on last night after reading JF's nice review. I bought it back in 1988 (back then the main purpose was to record it to cassette) and it is with me ever since. Some minor crackles here and there but the nostalgic trip was worth it.
I remember how I gave it to a friend to record it for me on tape back then. When he gave it back to me he had played it on 45 rpm. He had thought that was the correct speed as it otherwise sounded too boring and slow to his ears. He was hardly to convince that 33 rpm was correct. It was a running gag between us ever since. I often think about him when listening to the last couple of solo albums.
LE
-
Lol
-
Did anyone notice that the version of "The long road" that can be listened at the ending credits is DIFFERENT than the one in the record?
-
Did anyone notice that the version of "The long road" that can be listened at the ending credits is DIFFERENT than the one in the record?
yes it's often the case in film music. And it makes me angry all the time that we can't have on the record what we hear in a film.
when I was a teen, I recorded tons of films musics directly on TV during the movies (recorded on VHS). And when years later I bought several soundtracks I was upset to not hear excactly the same music.
But sometimes remasters editions ith bonus tracks gave me the graal (e.g. once upon a time in the west, once upon a time in America...)
-
I put my Cal vinyl on last night after reading JF's nice review. I bought it back in 1988 (back then the main purpose was to record it to cassette) and it is with me ever since. Some minor crackles here and there but the nostalgic trip was worth it.
I remember how I gave it to a friend to record it for me on tape back then. When he gave it back to me he had played it on 45 rpm. He had thought that was the correct speed as it otherwise sounded too boring and slow to his ears. He was hardly to convince that 33 rpm was correct. It was a running gag between us ever since. I often think about him when listening to the last couple of solo albums.
LE
:lol :lol
-
Great review JF!
The first time I listened to Cal was on a vinyl my childhood friend had brought back from Oslo, an incredible memory, it was so much what I wanted to hear from Mark, pure Celtic music mixed with the sound of Dire Straits.
yes exactly my impression too
-
There is a question about the Cal soundtrack that I don't have the answer
Maybe some of you know... or Ed, if you read us... ;)
why Alan Clark isn't on the record ? (Terry and John are)
wasn't he available at the time of recording (february-march 84) ?
was it the reason why managers/producers introduce Guy to Mark ?
or is it a coincidence ?
it would be a question for our dear Ed ;)
-
There is a question about the Cal soundtrack that I don't have the answer
Maybe some of you know... or Ed, if you read us... ;)
why Alan Clark isn't on the record ? (Terry and John are)
wasn't he available at the time of recording (february-march 84) ?
was it the reason why managers/producers introduce Guy to Mark ?
or is it a coincidence ?
it would be a question for our dear Ed ;)
It is known that Alan and Hal did a small tour with Tina Turner, she was opening form someone else I can't remember, maybe it coincided with that?
-
There is a question about the Cal soundtrack that I don't have the answer
Maybe some of you know... or Ed, if you read us... ;)
why Alan Clark isn't on the record ? (Terry and John are)
wasn't he available at the time of recording (february-march 84) ?
was it the reason why managers/producers introduce Guy to Mark ?
or is it a coincidence ?
it would be a question for our dear Ed ;)
It is known that Alan and Hal did a small tour with Tina Turner, she was opening form someone else I can't remember, maybe it coincided with that?
I didn't know that, thanks fro the info :thumbsup
-
Great, JF.
It was a pity that you cannot record with us.
I recommend you to change the YT video for the one that was "officialy released" by the AMIT channel.
-
Thank you JF:)
I'm listening to Cal right now. It's still beautiful music.
Today I noticed that the song Father And Son is 6:45 but the description says 7:41.
-
And on the earlier album "Comfort And Joy" there's also Guy Fletcher. Not Alan Clark.
-
I recommend you to change the YT video for the one that was "officialy released" by the AMIT channel.
done :thumbsup
-
And on the earlier album "Comfort And Joy" there's also Guy Fletcher. Not Alan Clark.
yes indeed
recorded in march, so after the recording of CAL soundtrack, but released on 27th july, so before the Cal soundtrack...
I didn't found the release date for Cal "album", but I assume it was after the film was released in theaters...
-
There is a question about the Cal soundtrack that I don't have the answer
Maybe some of you know... or Ed, if you read us... ;)
why Alan Clark isn't on the record ? (Terry and John are)
wasn't he available at the time of recording (february-march 84) ?
was it the reason why managers/producers introduce Guy to Mark ?
or is it a coincidence ?
it would be a question for our dear Ed ;)
It is known that Alan and Hal did a small tour with Tina Turner, she was opening form someone else I can't remember, maybe it coincided with that?
I didn't know that, thanks fro the info :thumbsup
https://www.the-world-of-tina.com/world-1984---tour.html
-July 18 - September 3: Headlining all over the U.S. and Canada (40 concerts)
-September 20 - October 20: Major television in Europe and England
-November 15 - December 13: Australian concert tour, appearing in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and the Gold Coast (36 concerts)
-December 15 - December 25: South East Asian concert tour, appearing in Hong Kong, Bangkok, Manila and Japan
-
And on the earlier album "Comfort And Joy" there's also Guy Fletcher. Not Alan Clark.
yes indeed
recorded in march, so after the recording of CAL soundtrack, but released on 27th july, so before the Cal soundtrack...
I didn't found the release date for Cal "album", but I assume it was after the film was released in theaters...
Wikipedia says Cal was released on August 24th 1984.
LE
-
Hey, the Amiters version!! Wonderful effort!! :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap
I remember when Cal was released, I was in bed with the flu, but had the news that Confort and Joy was released. So I begged my daddy to go buy it, but in the music shop in Rome they never heard of any Confort and any Joy. At the same time, thanks God, they suggested my daddy to buy Cal, which I never heard about.
What an incredible surprise, that day (hey, I still remember after 40 years, it must be something ;) ;)
-
I’d like to see the film again. I last saw it about 30 years ago.
-
And on the earlier album "Comfort And Joy" there's also Guy Fletcher. Not Alan Clark.
yes indeed
recorded in march, so after the recording of CAL soundtrack, but released on 27th july, so before the Cal soundtrack...
I didn't found the release date for Cal "album", but I assume it was after the film was released in theaters...
Wikipedia says Cal was released on August 24th 1984.
LE
yes the movie :)
that's why I pusblished my chronicle on saturday ;)
-
Well, the Wikipedia entry is explicitly about the album and says release date of the album.
LE
-
In my archives ;) the album release date is: September 21. But that's not important :)
-
Well, the Wikipedia entry is explicitly about the album and says release date of the album.
LE
Yes but I think it's just a copy/paste from the Wikipedia entry about the movie :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cal_(1984_film)
I find strange if the soundtrack would have been released the same day the movie was in theaters only in US, and before the european theatres release
Just my speculation of course :)
-
Yes. On Every Bootleg also says Sept 21st so I believe that it's true. I just saw the date in Wikipedia and thought that it might be correct.
LE
-
Did anyone notice that the version of "The long road" that can be listened at the ending credits is DIFFERENT than the one in the record?
yes it's often the case in film music. And it makes me angry all the time that we can't have on the record what we hear in a film.
when I was a teen, I recorded tons of films musics directly on TV during the movies (recorded on VHS). And when years later I bought several soundtracks I was upset to not hear excactly the same music.
But sometimes remasters editions ith bonus tracks gave me the graal (e.g. once upon a time in the west, once upon a time in America...)
Although I have not watched it for a while, in the film of Metroland there is a beautiful and short acoustic fingerpicked piece that is not on the soundtrack.
-
Did anyone notice that the version of "The long road" that can be listened at the ending credits is DIFFERENT than the one in the record?
yes it's often the case in film music. And it makes me angry all the time that we can't have on the record what we hear in a film.
when I was a teen, I recorded tons of films musics directly on TV during the movies (recorded on VHS). And when years later I bought several soundtracks I was upset to not hear excactly the same music.
But sometimes remasters editions ith bonus tracks gave me the graal (e.g. once upon a time in the west, once upon a time in America...)
Although I have not watched it for a while, in the film of Metroland there is a beautiful and short acoustic fingerpicked piece that is not on the soundtrack.
yes indeed.
I think it's in the audio clip in my article :
https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/la-b-o-du-film-metroland-par-mark-knopfler-a-25-ans/
-
Friend of the forum Ed Bicknell asked me to post this to the thread on his behalf:
Hi there pop pickers,
It’s CAL anniversary time.
A few fact checks as requested, by numbered responses ( and from memory).
P2. Absolutely classic re the 45rpm. ..the first time an AMIT post has made me rush to the toilet and pass gas.
An aside…many ( many ) years ago the then presenter of the Old Grey Whistle Test (UK music TV show), one Richard Williams, REVIEWED the drone on the BLANK side of a Lou Reed vinyl test pressing in the Melody Maker music rag and never lived it down ( mind you I can understand why).
P4. That would have been the film editor filling an empty space on the credits roll.
P5. Correct. What is used on film is RARELY what appears on the soundtrack album, Vangelis’ brilliant score for the first Blade Runner is a classic example.
You’ve mentioned 2 others.
That’s to do with test marketing and re-editing of pictures.
P8/9/13 Alan and Hal were “moonlighting” with Tina who was opening act on a Lionel Richie tour ( of US I think) and from memory that overlapped with the Cal recording and C and J.
BUT you could flip that round and ask WHY AC would have been on it even if he had been available?
He is a piano/organ player and doesn’t know any Celtic jigs so might not have fitted the musical bill in any event.
In 1983-4 I was dating the delightful Anne Marie Mackay who was managing Guy who I seem to recall was tinkling the synthesised ivories with Roxy Music at the time.
One evening as we enjoyed a Wimpy burger and fried egg she mentioned him to me. Coincidentally MK had been musing about where we might find someone who might know how to plug his Synclavier in since he couldn’t follow the instruction booklet.
BE BOP A LULA.
Incidentally we had stopped using third party producers by then., Making Movies was the last time.
Since Guy was really inexpensive it was logical that he’d join DS and thence to a lifetime of helping MK with instruction booklets eg How to Install a Microwave Oven …which is the real source of the MFN lyric, not all that rubbish about going to a NY electrical store and seeing Motley Crue on 50 TV sets.
Anne Marie went on to run a VERY successful LA Video and Film production company ( they made “So Far Away” for instance…Propaganda I think they were called. ).
P16. Back then albums were generally released Worldwide simultaneously.
Movies NEVER are.
In fact I don't think Comfort and Joy was released ANYWHERE other than the UK, which is why no one had heard of it in Rome.
I would usually schedule the soundtrack release to coincide with the FIRST territory that released the film which in the case of Cal was the UK.
WHAT have I told you about believing Wiki entries?
I doubt very much that a movie or that ST would have come out in mid August anywhere let alone UK and neither the film or the ST were ever commercially released in North America despite that Wiki entry.
I don't think it came out ANYWHERE other than UK and maybe Eire.
So September is much more likely.
The movie completely bombed and was one of the factors in the production company Goldcrest going bust ( not the only reason).
But we did get to meet and know Helen Mirren so it was all more than worthwhile and MK came up with some nice tunes which 40 years on are still giving pleasure, which is more than will be said about Oh Ay Sis 4 decades from now 🥁
-
thanks very much Ed ! :wave
you're kidding about MFN lyrics, right ? ;) :lol
-
thanks very much Ed ! :wave
you're kidding about MFN lyrics, right ? ;) :lol
I haven't seen pictures or interviews of "the meathead" from Money For Nothing or the instruction booklet, so both versions are equally likely.
If this version is correct, it all can be explained. Mark knew he was going to be asked about the origin of this song A LOT (which is true even to this day), and knowing he's not a fan of giving away the exact inspiration behind his songs, he came up with a beautiful story, which must be based on real experience because you can hardly imagine Mark straight up lying for 40 years, it doesn't make any sense. And you don't need me to know that you can often find stupidly simple explanations behind the greatest of things IF the author is willing to share them.
So as it always happens, the truth must be somewhere in between. The same applies to Sultans.
-
you're kidding about MFN lyrics, right ? ;) :lol
MK wrote the lines taken from the Electro shop on the same napkin that he designed the Pensa Suhr ;D
-
Yep, and on the same napkin, if you turn it around, you will find the lyrics for Sultans, written in that Deptford pub by none other than Paul McCartney, who didn't want his name to appear on the record, because the song had too many words. :lol
-
Yep, and on the same napkin, if you turn it around, you will find the lyrics for Sultans, written in that Deptford pub by none other than Paul McCartney, who didn't want his name to appear on the record, because the song had too many words. :lol
Years later this napkin was discovered by paleontologists who were digging for dinosaurs and "Cannibals" was born.
-
A further update from Ed:
I GIVE UP!!!!
Yes JF I was joking about the MFN lyrics but not about Guy and the synclavier, or was I?
Apply what you know about your hero and solve that puzzle.
Time allowed 48 hours.
Prize ATMOS Instruction booklet.
Pavel..wise words but as you can see….. I love the comments on the napkin which wasn’t a napkin ( counter receipt pad ).
I will tell you this for your gold collection ….
on the first American tour the question MK was MOST ASKED by journalists ( by far) was “ who is Guitar George?”
And he would always respond “ He’s a coal-miner from Leeds”.
One day I said to him,
"GG isn’t a bloody coal-miner from Leeds, what are you going on about ? ”
Big smile
“ No, George rhymes with chords but that’s too simple for them”.
Just like “dark “ and “park” or “ we got chicken in the barn, what barn, who’s barn, my barn”.
( Wow this is good shit).
-
Well, here we go, another brilliant comment from Ed. The fact he's been so active these days is certainly the best thing that happened to the MK/DS community in years. His comments on AMIT posts and corrections made on oneverybootleg website are priceless and he knows it. And Chris too!
Your story about Guitar George reminds me of Chet Atkins and his teeth and how one of his favourite lines was "fooled them again", which I heard both from MK and Chet. Another golden line. Because the truth is often ugly, and because the artist has no obligation to be 100% honest, and because it's the entertainment business, little white lies from my favourite artists will always take precedence over boring, mundane and sometimes obvious, although correct information.
-
A further update from Ed:
I GIVE UP!!!!
Yes JF I was joking about the MFN lyrics but not about Guy and the synclavier, or was I?
Apply what you know about your hero and solve that puzzle.
Time allowed 48 hours.
Prize ATMOS Instruction booklet.
HAHA, This is hilarious.
Thank you, Ed.
...Because the truth is often ugly, and because the artist has no obligation to be 100% honest, and because it's the entertainment business, little white lies from my favourite artists will always take precedence over boring, mundane and sometimes obvious, although correct information.
Yep! The truth won't sell.
A good story perpetuates. And generates "fuel" for the product.
John Suhr came to this forum and told us the true story about the Pensa Suhr. Wicht was very simple. But Rudy is a business man and great storyteller.
Once i heard an interview with John Scofield and he said things like: "- Anyone can be great at the guitar, but people prefer to hear that, being good t it is a god's gift. They ask me: What do you thinked when you played that line? Well, i was thinking in harmony and arpeggios, but they prefer to believe that an angel played it for me."
-
A further update from Ed:
I GIVE UP!!!!
Yes JF I was joking about the MFN lyrics but not about Guy and the synclavier, or was I?
Apply what you know about your hero and solve that puzzle.
Time allowed 48 hours.
Prize ATMOS Instruction booklet.
Pavel..wise words but as you can see….. I love the comments on the napkin which wasn’t a napkin ( counter receipt pad ).
I will tell you this for your gold collection ….
on the first American tour the question MK was MOST ASKED by journalists ( by far) was “ who is Guitar George?”
And he would always respond “ He’s a coal-miner from Leeds”.
One day I said to him,
"GG isn’t a bloody coal-miner from Leeds, what are you going on about ? ”
Big smile
“ No, George rhymes with chords but that’s too simple for them”.
Just like “dark “ and “park” or “ we got chicken in the barn, what barn, who’s barn, my barn”.
( Wow this is good shit).
a big big thank you Ed for your comments, your sense of humor, and your informations that give the graal to us :thumbsup :wave
-
I'm glad too and thank you Ed for your memories and stories. :)
-
Hello Ed
I'm happy to know I was right about Alan and Hal not being in Cal or Comfort and Joy because they were with Tina Turner, one can't never be sure of what one believes to be true!
Also interesting how Guy get the job, Ed, if you're reading this, is it true that Guy was offered the LOG tour, that resulted in Alchemy record, but refused because he was committed with Roxy Music? And how Tommy Mandel, an American musician, got that job?
Thanks for keeping sending your comments, I only wish we could have a dedicated thread with all the info gathered by themes, lol.
-
A further reply from Ed, and might I say, it’s a classic of the genre :)
Wire Crates fans…..bringing joy , laughter and facts here is the AMIT policeman again👮♂️.
Ages ago I said I wouldn’t get into correspondence but I must tell you folks that not only are you a very appreciative audience, this is fun for me, rather like a colonic can be fun.👩🦯
It's such a long time ago I find myself treating it like an exam paper ie what and how much can I remember and will I pass the AMIT examination board.
Or should that be bored…?
Let's pick up with P34 from Deliciously Quizzy.
Yep. Priceless.
As in £9.99.
All night.
“ Fooled them again, Josey”. The Outlaw Josey Wales one of the great westerns.
You are correct.
Most artists get asked the same questions over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and …...eventually start embellishing the answers, then exaggerating, then making them up, then taking the piss just to see if the interviewer is even listening and suddenly the piss take BECOMES the answer, hence GG being a coalminer ( he was actually a failed condom tester who ran around the factory in Leeds with a pin ).
P35 from Roll Me Over and Tickle My Willy….ancient blues song by Blind Peg Leg Loser.
I agree about Rudy.
That's a great John Schofield tale. Completely get it. Great player. Good to see you listen to guitarists other than MK, EC, JH, JP ,Terry Kilburn and my all time least favourite DK ( who is he I hear an echo? )
And the “deeper” the lyric the more people seek hidden meanings where there are none, just the bars of a rhyme .
Terence Trent D’Arby came to see me for management once and told me his next album had been written by Marvin Gaye who was dead and transmitted to him by ESP. SERIOUSLY.
I passed. He changed his name to Bhagwan Arse Trumpet and disappeared. Sad. Great talent that got completely overwhelmed by …you know…fame and celebrity, money and people taking it off him. .
P38.
No. I’m not reading this.
I’m Terence Trent D’Arby.
I probably shouldn’t say this but Tina’s manager Roger Davies called me somewhere on that tour and said Tina wanted to know if I would mind if she fired Hal. ( Tina and I first met in 1974…….a real lady I miss greatly.)
I told him it was her band, I didn't manage him ( he was an independent sideman) and to go ahead, didn't matter to me. .
Which she did.
I can't tell you why but I came perilously close to firing him twice for similar reasons.
Let's just say it all went to his head a bit.
John Illsley’s wonderfully accurate almost scientific book will give you a partial clue.
I imagine he’s sorted himself out by now.
By the way , MK’s soundtracks were not and were never intended to be DS records so including all of whatever the DS lineup was at the time would really have blurred that line.
Guy. Hmmmmm…..
Do you know I can't remember.
As I said his inclusion came about because I was seeing his manager romantically ( “slightly to right ought to …..aaaaaaaaaah , YES “ ) and I don't think that was as early as LOG.
No. Def not. So he didn't refuse, he wasn’t asked , I/we didn't know about him yet ( "YES, don't stop, just do that thing with the rubber band again ….thwack, boing bish” )
Tommy was recommended to MK by Neil Dorfsman and Bob Clearmountain and was a delight to work with. Happy. Bonkers. Creative. Lovely man, no “side “ to him at all , been with Bryan Adams for years.
Who’s a great photographer ….seriously good.
If you want some thread get a sewing machine.
Have twangy guitar, will travel.
-
I probably shouldn’t say this but Tina’s manager Roger Davies called me somewhere on that tour and said Tina wanted to know if I would mind if she fired Hal. ( Tina and I first met in 1974…….a real lady I miss greatly.)
I told him it was her band, I didn't manage him ( he was an independent sideman) and to go ahead, didn't matter to me. .
Which she did.
I can't tell you why but I came perilously close to firing him twice for similar reasons.
Let's just say it all went to his head a bit.
John Illsley’s wonderfully accurate almost scientific book will give you a partial clue.
I imagine he’s sorted himself out by now.
AHHAHAHAA!
I cracked on this one.
Too many informations with such sweetness.
This is not Ed, it's an impostor for sure. I miss a bit o vinager thru his sentences.
HAHAHAHA.
Thank You, Ed.
You are THE BEST!