A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: dustyvalentino on September 05, 2023, 10:03:51 AM
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Lengthy Ed Bicknell interview covering his whole career - DS don't enter the conversation until 90 minutes in so skip ahead if that's all you want to hear!
https://open.spotify.com/episode/2SjCIemyt4JkrAbdu5kpTl?si=4ba831635a804968
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Thanks for sharing. :thumbsup
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Thanks so much. I went to the the DS section (not finished yet), but I LOVE listening to Ed. He has such a way with words and great storytelling skills. He is the one who should have written the story of DS.
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Utterly fascinating interview.
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Thank you, dusty, for this interview. I went straight in to the DS part and have been glued to it for the whole time - I have only just finished.
Ed was so interesting to listen to and I enjoyed it all. I just wish it could have gone on a bit longer into the transition with the solo band.
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Thank you, dusty, for this interview. I went straight in to the DS part and have been glued to it for the whole time - I have only just finished.
Ed was so interesting to listen to and I enjoyed it all. I just wish it could have gone on a bit longer into the transition with the solo band.
I could have listened to Ed talk for ten hours straight. There were a couple of places where he was just about getting into some interesting stuff where the interviewer interrupted. Other than that I loved everything about it. Ed may be very candid and direct, but he seems fair. And to remember all those details and figures! I loved the bit about Mark using a blackboard during rehearsals ;D
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A lot of interesting stuff for us to discuss.
He clearly was not a fan of David, seemed delighted that he left and slagged off Sacred Loving.
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I always wondered why Sid McGinnis is always credited by playing in Making Movies but he's not credited in the record itself.
Not only John mentioned him in his book but now by Ed in this interview.
I always thought that Espresso love and Hand in hand have some guitar riffs that doesn't sound Knopfleresques at all.
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I always wondered why Did McGinnis is always credited by playing in Making Movies but he's not credited in the record itself.
Not only John mentioned him in his book but now by Ed in this interview.
I always thought that Espresso love and Hand in hand have some guitar riffs that doesn't sound Knopfleresques at all.
I have the same doubts, I talked about that in my Expresso love chronicle : https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/une-chanson-a-la-loupe-expresso-love-de-dire-straits/#Sid_McGinnis_joue-t-il_sur_la_version_studio
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I always wondered why Did McGinnis is always credited by playing in Making Movies but he's not credited in the record itself.
Not only John mentioned him in his book but now by Ed in this interview.
I always thought that Espresso love and Hand in hand have some guitar riffs that doesn't sound Knopfleresques at all.
I have the same doubts, I talked about that in my Expresso love chronicle : https://textes-blog-rock-n-roll.fr/une-chanson-a-la-loupe-expresso-love-de-dire-straits/#Sid_McGinnis_joue-t-il_sur_la_version_studio
here is Deepl's translation of that part of my chronicle
two solutions :
1) Either Sid McGinnis only played "backing tracks" to allow the other musicians to set up their parts, then Mark re-recorded all the guitars, so it's really only him you hear on the album's final mix.
Or
2) Sid McGinnis played on one or more tracks, and the production company "omitted" to credit him, following disagreements over his financial demands.
We'll probably never know the whole story. On the face of it, I'm leaning towards the first solution. BUT:
In 1985, during an appearance on David Letterman's show, Mark Knopfler played Expresso Love, not with Dire Straits, but accompanied by the show's backing band... which included Sid McGinnis. Notably, on that day, the solo was played in the same way as the studio version, i.e. with two harmonized guitars, played by Mark and Sid... whereas with Dire Straits, the song had never been played live in this way.
https://youtu.be/XcckppC_SWA
Why play it this way, on this very day, in the presence of Sid McGinnis? Was it a nod to his "participation" on the album? Would he be playing a duet with Mark on the studio version? The question remains unanswered, and I'll always be in doubt...
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seen this before. but forgotten, and unclear then that Sid played in that band. they did seem to have a good "relationship" there on stage? weird story with that guy. did he ever do an interview??
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Good interview, thanks for sharing.
Information about the BIA tour is good, and I note Eds comment that he thought that was the best incarnation of the band in terms of line up. I'd agree : the most energy and excitement in my opinion in MKs career.
What is also interesting is that the MFN video was filmed on tour in Budapest. You'd hope they took the opportunity to film the whole concert, from memory that is in the very early part of the tour.
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Good interview, thanks for sharing.
Information about the BIA tour is good, and I note Eds comment that he thought that was the best incarnation of the band in terms of line up. I'd agree : the most energy and excitement in my opinion in MKs career.
What is also interesting is that the MFN video was filmed on tour in Budapest. You'd hope they took the opportunity to film the whole concert, from memory that is in the very early part of the tour.
I actually doubt it, expensive to film and they just needed a few clips for the video.
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Good interview, thanks for sharing.
Information about the BIA tour is good, and I note Eds comment that he thought that was the best incarnation of the band in terms of line up. I'd agree : the most energy and excitement in my opinion in MKs career.
What is also interesting is that the MFN video was filmed on tour in Budapest. You'd hope they took the opportunity to film the whole concert, from memory that is in the very early part of the tour.
I actually doubt it, expensive to film and they just needed a few clips for the video.
Good interview, thanks for sharing.
Information about the BIA tour is good, and I note Eds comment that he thought that was the best incarnation of the band in terms of line up. I'd agree : the most energy and excitement in my opinion in MKs career.
What is also interesting is that the MFN video was filmed on tour in Budapest. You'd hope they took the opportunity to film the whole concert, from memory that is in the very early part of the tour.
But they are taken from different moments of the show, I mean different music, or that suggests foram feitas filmagens diverse
A long time ago I analyzed the images of the band on stage in the MFN video and I noticed some interesting things, there were many cameras from different angles filming the whole band and the most interesting thing is that looking calmly you can see that they filmed other moments from the show and we did the mix, because we get to see scenes of Mark and John wearing different clothes, different, but definitely, on the same show. There is a short scene where John wears his red jacket (certainly a scene early in the show), but most of him is wearing a white tank top, towards the end of the show when MFN is playing. The scene that shows Mark without the dark blue blazer and John with the white shirt, surely is in Solid Rock or Going Home, end of the show, this implies that a good part of the show has been recorded, who knows in its entirety. maybe...
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Good interview, thanks for sharing.
Information about the BIA tour is good, and I note Eds comment that he thought that was the best incarnation of the band in terms of line up. I'd agree : the most energy and excitement in my opinion in MKs career.
What is also interesting is that the MFN video was filmed on tour in Budapest. You'd hope they took the opportunity to film the whole concert, from memory that is in the very early part of the tour.
I actually doubt it, expensive to film and they just needed a few clips for the video.
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Good interview, thanks for sharing.
Information about the BIA tour is good, and I note Eds comment that he thought that was the best incarnation of the band in terms of line up. I'd agree : the most energy and excitement in my opinion in MKs career.
What is also interesting is that the MFN video was filmed on tour in Budapest. You'd hope they took the opportunity to film the whole concert, from memory that is in the very early part of the tour.
I actually doubt it, expensive to film and they just needed a few clips for the video.
Good interview, thanks for sharing.
Information about the BIA tour is good, and I note Eds comment that he thought that was the best incarnation of the band in terms of line up. I'd agree : the most energy and excitement in my opinion in MKs career.
What is also interesting is that the MFN video was filmed on tour in Budapest. You'd hope they took the opportunity to film the whole concert, from memory that is in the very early part of the tour.
But they are taken from different moments of the show, I mean different music, or that suggests foram feitas filmagens diverse
A long time ago I analyzed the images of the band on stage in the MFN video and I noticed some interesting things, there were many cameras from different angles filming the whole band and the most interesting thing is that looking calmly you can see that they filmed other moments from the show and we did the mix, because we get to see scenes of Mark and John wearing different clothes, different, but definitely, on the same show. There is a short scene where John wears his red jacket (certainly a scene early in the show), but most of him is wearing a white tank top, towards the end of the show when MFN is playing. The scene that shows Mark without the dark blue blazer and John with the white shirt, surely is in Solid Rock or Going Home, end of the show, this implies that a good part of the show has been recorded, who knows in its entirety. maybe...
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Here
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It's just one more curiosity that I never published and I thought it appropriate to do it here now. It doesn't mean much, but it shows that they also filmed other songs from the concert in Budapest at the beginning of the BIA tour 85.
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Brunno you really know your stuff, thanks for that info. So we can conclude with some certainty at the very least different parts of the concert were filmed, if not the whole thing.
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So much to chew over. Brilliant and entertaining storyteller.
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It's just one more curiosity that I never published and I thought it appropriate to do it here now. It doesn't mean much, but it shows that they also filmed other songs from the concert in Budapest at the beginning of the BIA tour 85.
Interesting stuff, it could just be two songs though!
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An excellent interview and it backs up what Pick Withers has also said in the past regarding Dave Knopfler. I could be wrong but didn't John also mention it in the book (Pick and Mark the outstanding musicians but John didn't put himself in that bracket as well as Dave?)
Regarding Sid McGinnes this is old news. He played on Making Movies and some of his work is quite exciting. Expresso Love for example, superb. In regards to crediting him there are many many many albums from all eras that for one reason or another don't give full credits to the performers. Could be related to previous contracts, the way the person is paid, to protect the brand. This is probably an example of Dire Straits just keeping it simple. No need to credit other musicians if you pay them a flat fee and Sid probably appeared on numerous albums from other artists anyway. Most session musicians aren't credited anyway on albums. There can't have been any bad blood hence the excellent performance on Letterman. Suprised that the exceptional Hal Lindes didn't try to emulate Sid's parts but remember the band was a dictactorship lead by Knopfler, so he may have wanted Lindes to give something a bit different. What I will say is from the early peformances with the american in the band (1980-81) he was nowhere near loud enough in the mix. This was sort of rectified by the time Alchemy came out and it had to be during the massive Brothers In Arms tour.
Also It's actually quite common for debut albums to not feature the respective bands drummer, due to them being very green. Loads of examples, where session musicians (or even drum machines) have replaced the original drummers, but there's no need to mention it in the sleeve. Makes the respective drummer look bad or it just could be due to contactual reasons. Obviously Pick is all over the first three albums but sadly barely plays on Love Over Gold.
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Pick barely plays on LOG?? who plays, then?
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Actually looks like there is a great vibe between MK and Sid McGinnis in that video.
Who knows what happened, he is mentioned in the Michael Oldfield book, then John mentions him too and now Ed Bicknell so it seems that is very likely Sid played in MM but strange he's not credited while Roy Bittan is...
By the way, I saw Sid playing with Peter Gabriel in a Rockpalast from his first solo tour as well.
I'm wishing Ed Bicknell writes a biography not only for DS or MK but because everything he knows about music, all his quotes in Led Zeppelin and Peter Grant books are gold, like when he and Peter Grant scared to death Paul Crockford during the first NHB tour!
Read it here: https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=2347.msg152892#msg152892
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Pick barely plays on LOG?? who plays, then?
He means you can't listen the Pick we were used to, as he wasn't playing on his usual style and sounded like any other drummer would sound, not in his usual style.
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Pick barely plays on LOG?? who plays, then?
He means you can't listen the Pick we were used to, as he wasn't playing on his usual style and sounded like any other drummer would sound, not in his usual style.
OK, thanks!
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Pick barely plays on LOG?? who plays, then?
He means you can't listen the Pick we were used to, as he wasn't playing on his usual style and sounded like any other drummer would sound, not in his usual style.
OK, thanks!
No sorry that's not what I meant although you are right he wasn't playing his usual style because a lot of the album involved drum programming. Sorry I thought that was common knowledge. I mean Love Over Gold IS my favourite album of DS and look i'm no big fan of drum programming but listen to Telegraph Road and Industrial Disease. The "Dr Parkinson" part.... come on... listen to it properly. It's not Pick playing on a kit, or if he is it was only partially recorded on the kit and then programmed. The only songs that sound live are the title track Love Over Gold and one of my favourite songs of all time It Never Rains. But Telegraph Road and Industrial Disease, nah sorry to break the bad news. Pick was still involved of course. But that was partly the reason he left. His role diminished. The band were expanding and broadening the sound. The landscape had changed. The band were beginning to get louder and a different beast. Pick was also getting a bit tired of Knopfler. He still has lots of respect for him but that's how it is sometimes. Best wishes to you all this weekend.
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It's true that TR sounds much more live on Alchemy (well, I that's what a concert is about 😂), with Terry doing a fantastic job on drums. On the album and even on the early 1981 versions Pick sounds a bit dry...
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
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I am surprised to see that hunter has left the forum. I enjoyed reading his contributions and I'm sorry he is no longer here. Sorry to be off-topic btw!
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I am surprised to see that hunter has left the forum. I enjoyed reading his contributions and I'm sorry he is no longer here. Sorry to be off-topic btw!
Indeed/ Sometimes people just need a digital detox, hopefully Hunter returns at some point. :)
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I am surprised to see that hunter has left the forum. I enjoyed reading his contributions and I'm sorry he is no longer here. Sorry to be off-topic btw!
Indeed/ Sometimes people just need a digital detox, hopefully Hunter returns at some point. :)
indeed Dusty. that is exactly what happened- Hunter was not dissatisified on here, but wanted to get rid of various digital distractions of life, which for him included, besides the usual FB, insta etc. also this forum. so he requested me to delete his account (but i decided to leave his posts active)
he will be happy to read, as a guest, your comment Val.
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I am surprised to see that hunter has left the forum. I enjoyed reading his contributions and I'm sorry he is no longer here. Sorry to be off-topic btw!
His posts were interesting and noteworthy - not the typical Knopfler worship, which is pointless. I hope he'll be back.
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
Yeah, I hate doubting anyone but other than the Dr Parkinson bit it really sounds like real drums to me on LoG, would be interesting to hear what Pick has to say about it. The drum machines available at the time were quite primitive.
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
Yeah, I hate doubting anyone but other than the Dr Parkinson bit it really sounds like real drums to me on LoG, would be interesting to hear what Pick has to say about it. The drum machines available at the time were quite primitive.
yes I always wondered what exactly meant Ed Walsh's job "synth program"
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I remember an interview were Pick said that recording Industrial disease was a painful and non-gratifying experience for him.
And yes, he said that Mark's intention was to put more and more keyboards (1 keyboard for the OL tour, 2 were planned for the LOG tour) and that was diminishing the drums's role and he had had enough...
Pick was brillant on the first 3 albums and the first 2 tours. On the OL tour he seems a bit out of place - with the new, longer version of Sultans, you can hear that it's not his thing, and that Terry would do a much better job in this new stadium area.
Pick was more subtle, Terry was more powerful, both were great, and by the way they are the best of friends today...
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
Yeah, I hate doubting anyone but other than the Dr Parkinson bit it really sounds like real drums to me on LoG, would be interesting to hear what Pick has to say about it. The drum machines available at the time were quite primitive.
yes I always wondered what exactly meant Ed Walsh's job "synth program"
Just had a quick look at Ed Walsh's credits online, he seems to be a synth player rather than a drum programmer. Could be him playing the synths at the start of Telegraph Road.
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1TBnAlRuJM
From 39 mins, hear and see Pick tell the story himself.
Pick plays real drums along to a drum machine that played the industrial hissing sounds etc.
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Well, playing alone a prerecorded programmed drums is not the same than don't play drums I'm songs...
Correct. Although anyone can listen to Love Over Gold and tell it's real drums and not a drum machine, it's quite obvious.
That's very usual since machines like the Lin drums appeared as they allow musicians to do demos just programming and then real musicians play real drums over that demos programmed.
Yes although as Pick says, the drum machine wasn't used that way in this instance, it was used to get "industrial" type sounds for the track.
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Well, playing alone a prerecorded programmed drums is not the same than don't play drums I'm songs...
Correct. Although anyone can listen to Love Over Gold and tell it's real drums and not a drum machine, it's quite obvious.
That's very usual since machines like the Lin drums appeared as they allow musicians to do demos just programming and then real musicians play real drums over that demos programmed.
Yes although as Pick says, the drum machine wasn't used that way in this instance, it was used to get "industrial" type sounds for the track.
Didn't listened to the interview as I did back in time and more or less remember what he said.
I remember having a discussion about the sound of drums in "freeway flyer" from Local Hero who a friend of mine says is a Linn Drum machine and I always say that is Terry playing alone a prerecorded Linn recorded track, and probably equalised to sound as dry as the machine itself!
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Well, playing alone a prerecorded programmed drums is not the same than don't play drums I'm songs...
Correct. Although anyone can listen to Love Over Gold and tell it's real drums and not a drum machine, it's quite obvious.
That's very usual since machines like the Lin drums appeared as they allow musicians to do demos just programming and then real musicians play real drums over that demos programmed.
Yes although as Pick says, the drum machine wasn't used that way in this instance, it was used to get "industrial" type sounds for the track.
Didn't listened to the interview as I did back in time and more or less remember what he said.
I remember having a discussion about the sound of drums in "freeway flyer" from Local Hero who a friend of mine says is a Linn Drum machine and I always say that is Terry playing alone a prerecorded Linn recorded track, and probably equalised to sound as dry as the machine itself!
on Freeway flyer Terry is credited
but in Going Home he isn't. so I wonder if there is a drum machine in GH but not on local Hero's other tracks ? :think
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Interesting question!
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In GH the drummer is .. can't remember his name. The one who play nowadays for the Stones
Steve Jordan is credited on the sleeve for Boomtown, but not GH.
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In GH the drummer is .. can't remember his name. The one who play nowadays for the Stones
Steve Jordan is credited on the sleeve for Boomtown, but not GH.
yes exactly.
could it be a typo ?
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In GH the drummer is .. can't remember his name. The one who play nowadays for the Stones
Steve Jordan is credited on the sleeve for Boomtown, but not GH.
yes exactly.
could it be a typo ?
Could easily be a typo. I listened to an interview with Steve Nathan and he was bemoaning the fact that some of his best performances were credited to other players.
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Gh is definitely a drum machine and probably played by our local hero himself. The fills are extremely rudimentary and the final roll at the end sets the case. And the sound is good but fake, just like the Kempers in last tour.
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Gh is definitely a drum machine and probably played by our local hero himself. The fills are extremely rudimentary and the final roll at the end sets the case. And the sound is good but fake, just like the Kempers in last tour.
Yes, I have sort of always known that Going Home had drum machine on it, but I don’t know (or remember) where I have that information from.
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Linn Drums on GH is MK as per credits, see below copy of the text of the back side of the vinyl maxi single.
Going Home: Theme of the Local Hero
Mark Knopfler: guitars, Linn Drums
Alan Clark: synthesizers
Tony Levin: bass
Mike Brecker: saxophone
Smooching
as above plus Mike Mainieri, vibes
Produced by Mark Knopfler
Engineered by Neil Dorfsman
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
An interview from Pick not long ago which explains his thoughts regarding his latter years in the band . I'm surprised that many of you didn't pick up on it but again I suppose you are all mostly Knopfler fans not fans of Dire Straits.
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An interview from Pick not long ago which explains his thoughts regarding his latter years in the band . I'm surprised that many of you didn't pick up on it but again I suppose you are all mostly Knopfler fans not fans of Dire Straits.
You are new to the forum. Welcome.
But please consider using a more respectful tone.
Thank you.
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
An interview from Pick not long ago which explains his thoughts regarding his latter years in the band . I'm surprised that many of you didn't pick up on it but again I suppose you are all mostly Knopfler fans not fans of Dire Straits.
what is it you are looking for? serious discussions? or just trolling around? if it is the first, WELCOME, if it is the second, may as well drop off
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
An interview from Pick not long ago which explains his thoughts regarding his latter years in the band . I'm surprised that many of you didn't pick up on it but again I suppose you are all mostly Knopfler fans not fans of Dire Straits.
what is it you are looking for? serious discussions? or just trolling around? if it is the first, WELCOME, if it is the second, may as well drop off
Apologies to you all if I seem a little "off." I am a huge Dire Straits fan and i've followed this forum for many years. Some great, knowledgeable people on it who are always on the look out for links to various interviews from past to present.
I didn't feel like joining until recently even though I often have opinions, just becuase I know it would consume a lot of my time, as Dire Straits were the first band I really loved as a kid, 4-5 years of age. I went onto follow various rock bands including Led Zeppelin, Fleetwood Mac, The Police, UFO.... I suppose I perhaps have harder influences than many of you. All those influences were through my father who used to play me albums from start to finish on his technics record player. He owned many japanese versions of the albums from the acts above (including Dire Straits debut album, Comminique and Love Over Gold. At the age of 6 or 7 I was obsessed with the Dire Straits sound and the various members. In England they weren't that fashionable and very rarely did I see them on the TV. It changed a little around 1985/86 and of course Live Aid is an absolute joy. Seeing not only Knopfler in action but Terry Williams, the energetic Jack Sonni RIP and Alan Clark.
Of course many of you are from different backgrounds, perhaps into folk and country... so his solo career must be a joy to you all. There have been flashes for me, but sadly i'm more into the band. I appreciate Knopfler was the band, BUT still he needed the musicians around him. So I sometimes feel sad at the criticism of some of his former band mates - Chris Whitton, the lack of praise for Hal Lindes and Jack Sonni. Knopfler no doubt is a world class songwriter and guitarist, but it doesn't mean he isn't flawed. No human is, but it's difficult for some of the posters to take when there is critisism against his character. Genius's don't have to be difficult people. You can be nice and a genius, but anyway I appreciate the legend that Mark is.
In terms of my favourite album of his it's got to be Love Over Gold followed by Making Movies. So it came as a shock to me when I listened to a podcast with Pick Withers last year with regards to his latter years with the band. He spoke about drum machines and the band becoming too loud and perhaps into genres he wasn't particularly keen on. Industrial Disease, a song I particularly like, was apparently worked on a drum machine. He also mentioned Telegraph Road. It's sad in a way as I used to often visualise Pick playing these songs in the studio. But there are many secrets in the music industry. Many many albums that aren't what they seem. Def Leppard's Pyromania for example used Drum machines. Rick Allen hardly played anything on it.There are hundreds of other examples.
Finally just to add some context, for many years I worked less than half a mile away from British Grove, Knopfler's studio in Chiswick and I even came across his solo band collegues at the Mawson's arms once.... well I recognised Guy Fletcher but unusually I didn't have the guts to talk to him. Sadly that pub has closed... I remember that area well with the smell of honey/hops in the chiswick air. When the company I worked for sadly moved from Chiswick I said my goodbye's to British Grove, I realised that I could have been a "fanboy" and hung around the streets around the studio at any point... I sort of regret it but I was often afraid to meet Knopfler just in case... I didn't want my high opinion of him to be tarnished.
Best wishes to you all and again apologies for the tone of my previous messages.
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Linn Drums on GH is MK as per credits, see below copy of the text of the back side of the vinyl maxi single.
Going Home: Theme of the Local Hero
Mark Knopfler: guitars, Linn Drums
Alan Clark: synthesizers
Tony Levin: bass
Mike Brecker: saxophone
Smooching
as above plus Mike Mainieri, vibes
Produced by Mark Knopfler
Engineered by Neil Dorfsman
I'm sure I listened or read in interviews that Steve Jordan played the drums in GH while they were in Power Station together with Mike Brecker and Tony Levin but maybe it was they just didn't remember it exactly or maybe that they have the credits wrong, as it happened in other occasions.
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
An interview from Pick not long ago which explains his thoughts regarding his latter years in the band . I'm surprised that many of you didn't pick up on it but again I suppose you are all mostly Knopfler fans not fans of Dire Straits.
what is it you are looking for? serious discussions? or just trolling around? if it is the first, WELCOME, if it is the second, may as well drop off
Apologies to you all if I seem a little "off." I am a huge Dire Straits fan and i've followed this forum for many years. Some great, knowledgeable people on it who are always on the look out for links to various interviews from past to present.
I didn't feel like joining until recently even though I often have opinions, just becuase I know it would consume a lot of my time, as Dire Straits were the first band I really loved as a kid, 4-5 years of age. I went onto follow various rock bands including Led Zeppelin, Fleetwood Mac, The Police, UFO.... I suppose I perhaps have harder influences than many of you. All those influences were through my father who used to play me albums from start to finish on his technics record player. He owned many japanese versions of the albums from the acts above (including Dire Straits debut album, Comminique and Love Over Gold. At the age of 6 or 7 I was obsessed with the Dire Straits sound and the various members. In England they weren't that fashionable and very rarely did I see them on the TV. It changed a little around 1985/86 and of course Live Aid is an absolute joy. Seeing not only Knopfler in action but Terry Williams, the energetic Jack Sonni RIP and Alan Clark.
Of course many of you are from different backgrounds, perhaps into folk and country... so his solo career must be a joy to you all. There have been flashes for me, but sadly i'm more into the band. I appreciate Knopfler was the band, BUT still he needed the musicians around him. So I sometimes feel sad at the criticism of some of his former band mates - Chris Whitton, the lack of praise for Hal Lindes and Jack Sonni. Knopfler no doubt is a world class songwriter and guitarist, but it doesn't mean he isn't flawed. No human is, but it's difficult for some of the posters to take when there is critisism against his character. Genius's don't have to be difficult people. You can be nice and a genius, but anyway I appreciate the legend that Mark is.
In terms of my favourite album of his it's got to be Love Over Gold followed by Making Movies. So it came as a shock to me when I listened to a podcast with Pick Withers last year with regards to his latter years with the band. He spoke about drum machines and the band becoming too loud and perhaps into genres he wasn't particularly keen on. Industrial Disease, a song I particularly like, was apparently worked on a drum machine. He also mentioned Telegraph Road. It's sad in a way as I used to often visualise Pick playing these songs in the studio. But there are many secrets in the music industry. Many many albums that aren't what they seem. Def Leppard's Pyromania for example used Drum machines. Rick Allen hardly played anything on it.There are hundreds of other examples.
Finally just to add some context, for many years I worked less than half a mile away from British Grove, Knopfler's studio in Chiswick and I even came across his solo band collegues at the Mawson's arms once.... well I recognised Guy Fletcher but unusually I didn't have the guts to talk to him. Sadly that pub has closed... I remember that area well with the smell of honey/hops in the chiswick air. When the company I worked for sadly moved from Chiswick I said my goodbye's to British Grove, I realised that I could have been a "fanboy" and hung around the streets around the studio at any point... I sort of regret it but I was often afraid to meet Knopfler just in case... I didn't want my high opinion of him to be tarnished.
Best wishes to you all and again apologies for the tone of my previous messages.
No problem, good on you son for apologising, welcome to the forum, good to have you here. :)
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Hmm, quite an interesting allegation, would be good to hear Pick’s thoughts on it.
They are not allegations whatsoever. Pick is my source.
And that source can be checked where?
An interview from Pick not long ago which explains his thoughts regarding his latter years in the band . I'm surprised that many of you didn't pick up on it but again I suppose you are all mostly Knopfler fans not fans of Dire Straits.
what is it you are looking for? serious discussions? or just trolling around? if it is the first, WELCOME, if it is the second, may as well drop off
Apologies to you all if I seem a little "off." I am a huge Dire Straits fan and i've followed this forum for many years. Some great, knowledgeable people on it who are always on the look out for links to various interviews from past to present.
I didn't feel like joining until recently even though I often have opinions, just becuase I know it would consume a lot of my time, as Dire Straits were the first band I really loved as a kid, 4-5 years of age. I went onto follow various rock bands including Led Zeppelin, Fleetwood Mac, The Police, UFO.... I suppose I perhaps have harder influences than many of you. All those influences were through my father who used to play me albums from start to finish on his technics record player. He owned many japanese versions of the albums from the acts above (including Dire Straits debut album, Comminique and Love Over Gold. At the age of 6 or 7 I was obsessed with the Dire Straits sound and the various members. In England they weren't that fashionable and very rarely did I see them on the TV. It changed a little around 1985/86 and of course Live Aid is an absolute joy. Seeing not only Knopfler in action but Terry Williams, the energetic Jack Sonni RIP and Alan Clark.
Of course many of you are from different backgrounds, perhaps into folk and country... so his solo career must be a joy to you all. There have been flashes for me, but sadly i'm more into the band. I appreciate Knopfler was the band, BUT still he needed the musicians around him. So I sometimes feel sad at the criticism of some of his former band mates - Chris Whitton, the lack of praise for Hal Lindes and Jack Sonni. Knopfler no doubt is a world class songwriter and guitarist, but it doesn't mean he isn't flawed. No human is, but it's difficult for some of the posters to take when there is critisism against his character. Genius's don't have to be difficult people. You can be nice and a genius, but anyway I appreciate the legend that Mark is.
In terms of my favourite album of his it's got to be Love Over Gold followed by Making Movies. So it came as a shock to me when I listened to a podcast with Pick Withers last year with regards to his latter years with the band. He spoke about drum machines and the band becoming too loud and perhaps into genres he wasn't particularly keen on. Industrial Disease, a song I particularly like, was apparently worked on a drum machine. He also mentioned Telegraph Road. It's sad in a way as I used to often visualise Pick playing these songs in the studio. But there are many secrets in the music industry. Many many albums that aren't what they seem. Def Leppard's Pyromania for example used Drum machines. Rick Allen hardly played anything on it.There are hundreds of other examples.
Finally just to add some context, for many years I worked less than half a mile away from British Grove, Knopfler's studio in Chiswick and I even came across his solo band collegues at the Mawson's arms once.... well I recognised Guy Fletcher but unusually I didn't have the guts to talk to him. Sadly that pub has closed... I remember that area well with the smell of honey/hops in the chiswick air. When the company I worked for sadly moved from Chiswick I said my goodbye's to British Grove, I realised that I could have been a "fanboy" and hung around the streets around the studio at any point... I sort of regret it but I was often afraid to meet Knopfler just in case... I didn't want my high opinion of him to be tarnished.
Best wishes to you all and again apologies for the tone of my previous messages.
Welcome! :-)
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A question for Chris W if you see this thread. Hope thats ok as I didn’t want to change subject in the thread you’re active in. In this great interview with Ed Bicknell he said that in the 60s their were about 4 drummers that played on the hits and nobody played their own music in the studio. The one band he accused this of was The Kinks which surprised me. Have you heard of this before, did they really use session musicians to record their studio songs? It’s funny as I was bought up to believe the 60s bands were all the real deal and it was in the 80s that everyone was fake and lip synced.
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I know the question isn’t for me but I believe Clem Catini played on quite a few Kinks tracks. And of course in the states you had the Wrecking Crew with Hal Blaine playing for The Beach Boys, The Byrds, Mamas and Papas etc etc etc
Jimmy Page played on tons of sessions before Led Zep as well, including The Kinks from memory.
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I know the question isn’t for me but I believe Clem Catini played on quite a few Kinks tracks. And of course in the states you had the Wrecking Crew with Hal Blaine playing for The Beach Boys, The Byrds, Mamas and Papas etc etc etc
Jimmy Page played on tons of sessions before Led Zep as well, including The Kinks from memory.
All Day And All Of The Night ?
(the question mark is because I have no reliable source but I heard it was on that track)
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The session musician thing was definitely a thing in the early 60's. Bands often didn't even write their own material. It all changed with the huge success of The Beatles. By 66 onwards I think bands were playing on their records and also writing the sings - like Pink Floyd, The Who, The Doors, Jimmy Hendrix Experience etc...
I replaced a lot of band drummers in the 1980's however.
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If you can pay studio time to record 80 takes to get one good then yo can do it that way.
The interesting thing with Pink Floyd is The Wall album.
Therre are uncredited people playing on that one.
BTW does anybody have heard of Nile Rodgers interview about him playing David Gilmour's 0001 white Strat ?
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If you can pay studio time to record 80 takes to get one good then yo can do it that way.
It can be a bunch of things - not a great groove, not a great sound. It isn't always about mistakes.
Since modern technology allows you to completely change the sound AND fix the groove, hardly anyone is replaced by a studio drummer any more.
With drummers like Omar Hakim and Jeff Porcaro you had an incredible feel, tasteful fills and a fantastic drum sound.
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If you can pay studio time to record 80 takes to get one good then yo can do it that way.
It can be a bunch of things - not a great groove, not a great sound. It isn't always about mistakes.
Since modern technology allows you to completely change the sound AND fix the groove, hardly anyone is replaced by a studio drummer any more.
With drummers like Omar Hakim and Jeff Porcaro you had an incredible feel, tasteful fills and a fantastic drum sound.
The funny thing is, I think the drums are great on all those Rockpile/Nick Lowe/Dave Edmunds albums.
But BIA and OES sold 40 million odd between them so who am I to argue with MK?!
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Speaking of Ed, just stumbled across this... Video. LMAO :lol :lol :lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln_KnVyaKm8
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He obviously is a great storysteller, indeed very funny. He remembers all the details and names immediately.
Two things remarkable to me: 1) calling him Knopfler instead of Mark, 2) "he and I don't drink".
LE
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LOL :lol
Ed is a legend.
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Cried through most of that story. He’s a funny guy.
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He obviously is a great storysteller, indeed very funny. He remembers all the details and names immediately.
Two things remarkable to me: 1) calling him Knopfler instead of Mark, 2) "he and I don't drink".
LE
Yeah, what a story indeed. Regarding alcohol, maybe he was talking about heavy drinks. As in whiskey, it's like vodka in terms of strength. I don't know anyone who consumes a lot of heavy stuff like this and continues to be sane. The second thing feels like a way to reduce calling him "Mak" all the time, otherwise, that would sound like constantly Mak this, Mak that.
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I took it to mean they don't socialise.
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I took it to mean they don't socialise.
Me too.
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I know they don't socialise anyway.
Last time I saw Ed he was with Pick Withers at the London Drum Show.
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Those teeth spoke to Elvis.
LOL!!!!
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I know they don't socialise anyway.
Last time I saw Ed he was with Pick Withers at the London Drum Show.
How did you find working with Ed Chris?
He always comes across as fun and jovial in interviews but I assume he was pretty tough when it came to business and watching the cash?
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I took it to mean they don't socialise.
Me too.
Interesting how even such a minor detail can generate different perceptions. I'm of course a non-native speaker and easily and likely can be wrong here, but my thinking was like this: since Ed mentioned he had a bottle of whiskey on his table, he emphasised that both he and Mark don't drink [heavy alcohol] juxtaposing the fact Mark slugged down the whole bottle to sell the emotional impact.
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he says mark in the beginning. and he said "he and i'd drink" at least that is what i understood. Dusty?
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Definitely Ed is the best storyteller ever, he has a way to tell everything in both an interesting and funny way.
And he might have stories about many many artists, man, a book of memoirs from him would be priceless!
He's also very good impersonating Chet, LOL
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I took it that Ed had his tongue in his cheek when he said they don’t drink. I remember an interview with one of Marks sons talking about his Dads varied alcohol consumption. He implied he liked a drink.
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Definitely Ed is the best storyteller ever, he has a way to tell everything in both an interesting and funny way.
And he might have stories about many many artists, man, a book of memoirs from him would be priceless!
He's also very good impersonating Chet, LOL
Yes, that's a stand-up comedian right there. If Ed ever did something wrong, I'm willing to forgive everything just for this particular routine. Chet, on the other hand, is a natural comedian as well. With his voice, everything he says automatically becomes funny, all he needs is to add a little bit of acting and even a simple story of the retrieval of false teeth can become a masterpiece of a prank.
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I took it that Ed had his tongue in his cheek when he said they don’t drink. I remember an interview with one of Marks sons talking about his Dads varied alcohol consumption. He implied he liked a drink.
Absolutely. There are photos of Mark behind the scenes, with shot glasses, beer bottles and Smirnoff vodka all over the place, so I'd never buy the idea they "don't drink". I think when you grow older, you start to neglect strong alcohol safe for rare occasions. And something I can relate to myself, as I drink vodka and other strong drinks only in extraordinary circumstances, and I'm Russian. Chet Atkins calling could be one of these occasions and I would too drank a shot of vodka beforehand, nothing wrong about that.
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He was just being sarcastic. Everyone knows Mark enjoys a drink, there are hundreds of stories and interviews where that is mentioned.
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I took it that Ed had his tongue in his cheek when he said they don’t drink.
They don't socialise. Any other interpretation is wrong....sorry. It has nothing to do with either of them having an alcoholic drink or not.
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I took it that Ed had his tongue in his cheek when he said they don’t drink.
They don't socialise. Any other interpretation is wrong....sorry. It has nothing to do with either of them having an alcoholic drink or not.
Dear Chris... Why so serious? You are known on this forum as somebody who advocates straight facts and truths. The only man who can confirm 100% what he meant is Mr Ed Bicknell himself. Luckily, he is still alive, though I don't think it's worth it to bother him with elaborating on this little detail. I understand you are 100% sure about what he meant, though I don't understand where you get this information from.
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I took it that Ed had his tongue in his cheek when he said they don’t drink.
They don't socialise. Any other interpretation is wrong....sorry. It has nothing to do with either of them having an alcoholic drink or not.
The story is about something that happened in 86/87, why would he mean they don't socialise? They socialised back then. Unless he means they don't socialise at the time of the interview (2019), but that wouldn't make any sense in the context of the conversation.
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As far as I recall, I read somewhere, surely Chris would confirm if I recall it well, Ed was not present during the tour except on counted occasions, he was in London managing everything regarding the tour with Paul Cummins taking care of everything from inside the tour.
Neither were around much, although Paul slightly more than Ed.
As far as the tour was concerned, it was a united front. I was not aware of any rift between Mark, John, Ed and Paul.
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The story is about something that happened in 86/87, why would he mean they don't socialise?
Maybe, although as I say, everyone seemed friendly and on the same page in 1992.
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Dear Chris... Why so serious? You are known on this forum as somebody who advocates straight facts and truths.
Believe what you want.
They don't socialise, which is why Ed says they don't 'share a drink together'.
The reasons or whether it's pure co-incidence?.... I don't know, but I know they don't socialise.
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Dear Chris... Why so serious? You are known on this forum as somebody who advocates straight facts and truths.
Believe what you want.
They don't socialise, which is why Ed says they don't 'share a drink together'.
The reasons or whether it's pure co-incidence?.... I don't know, but I know they don't socialise.
A lot of people in a professional environment don't socialise, that's normal. I would say it's even welcome. You're making money together, not cooking a barbecue in a backyard. However, my problem in this situation is I'm not sure why you need to emphasise you don't socialise with someone when it has nothing to do with the dramatic flow of Ed's recalling the story. If they'd SHARE the drink with MK, that would make sense, however, Mark drank alone, hence no socialising needed, and it would be strange for somebody to emphasise something that doesn't need to be emphasised, that's all.
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it would be strange for somebody to emphasise something that doesn't need to be emphasised, that's all.
I presume he felt he needed to describe their current relationship.
Lot's of people message me to ask when was the last time I saw Mark, or spoke to him. When I say Zaragoza Oct 1992 they are shocked and disappointed.
Over the course of the DS band I'm sure they all went through a lot together. Mark has a new (sort of) manager in Paul Crockford.
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it would be strange for somebody to emphasise something that doesn't need to be emphasised, that's all.
I presume he felt he needed to describe their current relationship.
Lot's of people message me to ask when was the last time I saw Mark, or spoke to him. When I say Zaragoza Oct 1992 they are shocked and disappointed.
Over the course of the DS band I'm sure they all went through a lot together. Mark has a new (sort of) manager in Paul Crockford.
I didn’t understand what you meant at first by saying they don’t socialise. I now do as you meant Mark and Ed never socialised with each other. That doesn’t surprise me one bit.
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I didn’t understand what you meant at first by saying they don’t socialise. I now do as you meant Mark and Ed never socialised with each other.
No idea what they did until after the 1992 tour. They may have socialised a lot.
I'm saying they don't socialise now.
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Amazing how much discussion one tiny remark can generate.
In the context of the anecdote it makes no sense to suddenly imply that they don't socialise together, he was talking about the miniature of whisky.
And we know that MK does indeed drink (don't know about Ed).
So I can only assume he was meaning that he and MK don't drink whisky.
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This discussion is hilarious! ;D
As he is talking about the whiskey, the point on not drinking (whiskey? in the daytime? in the office?) would seem to underline how surprising it was that Mark then gulped it down.
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How I'd love to read Ed's account of the DS story. It'd be a tad more entertaining than Illsley's LOL
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Is there such a thing as a non-drinking Brit? So far I'm yet to meet one, and judging by the map of pubs in the UK... How dare you say you don't drink? I'm confused.
(https://preview.redd.it/8ewex5he4k0y.jpg?auto=webp&s=5c4e6e7b164e3bb84b22921fcd3b4648db8ff82d)
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You are all overthinking about a simple comment made to remark that receiving a call from Chet Atkins was very surprising...
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How I'd love to read Ed's account of the DS story. It'd be a tad more entertaining than Illsley's LOL
Judging by all his interviews and the way he tells the stories, yes, way far entertaining!
But the main thing is he not only has things to say, obviously about DS and MK, but also about many of the best people from the rock history, this man brought Deep Purple or Jimi Hendrix to play to Hull university and others in the area if I recall well!
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How I'd love to read Ed's account of the DS story. It'd be a tad more entertaining than Illsley's LOL
Judging by all his interviews and the way he tells the stories, yes, way far entertaining!
But the main thing is he not only has things to say, obviously about DS and MK, but also about many of the best people from the rock history, this man brought Deep Purple or Jimi Hendrix to play to Hull university and others in the area if I recall well!
and The Who
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Is there such a thing as a non-drinking Brit? So far I'm yet to meet one, and judging by the map of pubs in the UK... How dare you say you don't drink? I'm confused.
(https://preview.redd.it/8ewex5he4k0y.jpg?auto=webp&s=5c4e6e7b164e3bb84b22921fcd3b4648db8ff82d)
I haven't had a drink in 2024 if that helps :)
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At least if Mark reads this forum, he will get a good laugh! ;D
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How I'd love to read Ed's account of the DS story. It'd be a tad more entertaining than Illsley's LOL
Judging by all his interviews and the way he tells the stories, yes, way far entertaining!
But the main thing is he not only has things to say, obviously about DS and MK, but also about many of the best people from the rock history, this man brought Deep Purple or Jimi Hendrix to play to Hull university and others in the area if I recall well!
Exactly. Wonder why he hasn't done it actually.
Here's another story. Just unbelievably funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhyBGBVfk1M
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Imaginary interview:
"MK and Ed don't speak to each other"
AMIT forum:
"Oh, that just means they do karaoke and rave parties together".
C'mon. Not everyone is Guy Fletcher ;D
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???
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What I found more interesting than the non-socializing story (which is pretty obvious once you've heard "Let's See You") is that you're calling Paul Crockford a "(sort of) manager", Chris. Why that?
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What I found more interesting than the non-socializing story (which is pretty obvious once you've heard "Let's See You") is that you're calling Paul Crockford a "(sort of) manager", Chris. Why that?
You are all doing a big snow ball fron nothing.
They were client and customer during the DS days, maybe they got to be kind of friends, but once they broke their proffesional relationship, they don't socialize, it's pretty obvious.
Maybe that sort of manager about Crockford is because he was a promoter that worked a lot with DS and assisted Bicknell a lot too, actually he was the manager for the NHB.
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Actually Crockford was my manager during Paul McCartney and Dire Straits tours. Paul knew well the DS management (Ed and Paul Cummins).
I'm not on the inside, but I believe Crockford acts to help Mark when he needs it, like the 2019 tour, but Mark doesn't currently have a contracted manager.
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Hello everyone.
I just received, via Chris Whitten (thanks Chris), a message from Ed Bicknell, which I'm posting later.
The most important thing, he says literally "point out that I can't and won’t get into "correspondence” , that this is not going to be a regular thing"
So, what I'm posting is just something to read and he has no intention of answering, although I'm sure he would be reading, and probably having a good laugh.
I love this guy, how I wish he would write a book about all stories he knows, not only of DS and MK!!!
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Hello everyone.
I just received, via Chris Whitten (thanks Chris), a message from Ed Bicknell, which I'm posting later.
The most important thing, he says literally "point out that I can't and won’t get into "correspondence” , that this is not going to be a regular thing"
So, what I'm posting is just something to read and he has no intention of answering, although I'm sure he would be reading, and probably having a good laugh.
I love this guy, how I wish he would write a book about all stories he knows, not only of DS and MK!!!
Great!
Thanks jbaent, Chris W and of course Ed!
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I'm forwarding this message from Ed Bicknel to you.
Chris W
Hi there Jbaent, nice to meet you ,
My attention was brought to your site AMIT a while ago and I’ve followed it on and off since.
After Jack and Brendan’s passing ( REALLY REALLY sad, ) I was prompted to check out some of the threads you have going which are often unintentionally funny, wildly speculative and sometimes just plain deluded since understandably the writers do not have the information.
NOT a problem, that’s what being a fan is about and without fans where would we be? ( Probably hot and sticky. )
Being a fan is AN ADVENTURE !!!!
So I am sending a few comments via Chris Whitten on some of the topics that are currently “ running ” just to inform, NOT to criticise.
IF you publish please DO NOT EDIT and point out that I can't and won’t get into "correspondence” , that this is not going to be a regular thing and what follows is not an attempt to deal with every point that the fans/writers bring up, for instance I won’t address the Alan Clark thread, the On Every Street album content or the technical studio stuff which Guy has more than covered even though he can’t change a plug.
Guy is the BEST guy out of many guys I’ve misguyded over the years.
And what follows is subjective and from memory, I shredded everything when we closed, bin bags full of letters, telexes, faxes, emails, diaries, a history of technical communication since 1977, so I may have misremembered but I'm not going to get into factual debates, if I’m wrong I’m wrong.
So use this intro if you want
Here we go……..
A SKID MARK ON THE Y FRONTS
1. The Bob Lefsetz podcast/interview.
Thanks for the positive comments, it was fun to do. Excellent interviewer…….tip - Bob has alot of interviews on his sites worth checking out if you are real music fans ( as opposed to being locked into one thing ).
As far as not talking about the transition into MK's solo band, that was guided by the interviewer and it would have taken at least half an hour to have detailed and includes too much personal stuff for your forum, sorry.
2. "Sacred Loving” .
From memory that was on the original Pathway studios demo tape they did but I must have forgotten which says something about the song/performance…….average at best which I’m guessing is why it wasn’t used, plus the fact David wrote it, if he’d written “ Day In The Life” it wouldn’t have made it ( see Muff Winwood You Tube interview in a doc on siblings in bands. Can’t recall the title …BBC 2 maybe? Long time ago. )
3. Sid McGinnis.
Let me try and put this one to bed.
He came in “last minute” after David's departure and I'm not even sure we paid him !
I can't recall what he played on, it was 44 years ago !
Ah yes, he used his guitar.
Memory….I think MK replaced some of what D had done up to then though not much because D's departure was fairly early on while they were tracking “ Romeo and Juliet ”.
I don't think Sid was credited because I wasn't there at the time and nobody told me he'd done anything ( typical ) nor do I know how he got the gig ( through Jimmy Iovine, Lourdes maybe? )
He certainly never complained re no credit.
Roy B was there from the NY rehearsals on so completely different situation and he contributed to the arrangements and general vibe. Great guy ( all of Bruce’s band are including the singer ).
There were NO disagreements about finances or that motivating anything either re Sid or anyone else.
There was no "production company", just me and the band, and 90% of the time right up to 2000 whenever I could I did things on a handshake, especially with promoters, the BEST people I dealt with by far,( pre Live Nation/AEG ).
All these “ contracts " people keep mentioning never existed ( except records/publishing ) and I took NO notice of record companies in the unlikely event they came looking for something unless it fitted with what was happening creatively eg single choices, TV's, videos, interviews etc.
In fairness neither Warners or Phonogram ever asked when they were getting a new album, too scared to !
My policy was that if we couldn’t do it our/my way, it didn't happen at all, so you can close that line down in future…...yes, like Frank I did it MY WAY ( with all my artists irrespective of how successful they were, it’s just a matter of knowing how to protect them.
Sid’s relationship with MK was always fine but brief, I'm surprised that conflict is even hinted at.
It was played “ that way ” on Letterman because those things are always lacking in rehearsal time, you just have to get on with it FAST, maybe two run throughs at most, and just about everybody with a decent front person would use the house band since it was easier and faster technically, hence MK doing that one ( EL ) on his own minus the rest of DS.
No-one back then thought of bands as “ brands ”.
No idea if Sid ever did an interview, he was/is a studio player and they generally stay under the radar.
By the way, I doubt MK “ told " Hal what to play on EL, he was perfectly capable of coming up with his own parts, which is why he got the job until he didn't have the job ( eeeew I don't want to think of Hal's parts ).
I'm baffled by the comment re Hal not being loud enough on live shows.
I often used to sit on the FOH desk ( or monitors) and never thought the sound balance was “ out " despite some of the shit holes we played, quite the opposite.
4. Budapest. We only had time to film the live MFN bits, there was NO additional filming at all and no plan to shoot anything long-form ( way too early in the tour, nobody thought to do, I certainly didn't ).
It was all done on one afternoon ( at sound check) and then at that evening's gig (hence bits of other songs..they just wanted audience shots to drop in ), which might account for the change in sweaty shirts /jacket colours. Obviously the film crew didn't have a co ordination person with them or when they edited it together !
The record co's needed FAST.
I think the single was already out in some countries so usual mad panic, no budget by the way and the girl in it was hired the morning of the shoot by the film co.
I don't recall “ many " cameras. Maybe 3? 4?
Chris Whitten’s comment on this is correct.
5. The comment re Pick and LOG is incorrect. Pick is all over that record ( and I was gutted when he left ), if you watch his interviews it’s all there eg shitty machine on Industrial D, I completely agree with him on that.
We remain great friends to this day .....he married my secretary Linda TWICE !
He did not "change style” …great drummers can play the same song as many different ways as needed and Pick is a GREAT drummer no question.
There were several reasons he left not just that old “musical differences ” thing which is always a cover for what actually happened ie personal strife!
The Oldfield book is mediocre. ..a shame because we gave him total access., but not as bad as the other book that came out ( can't recall who by), now THAT one was rubbish…the writer was obsessed by Sting ( easy I know).
I have NO memory of Ed Walsh at all. I wonder if we paid HIM!
6. I agree with the comments re Pick and Terry ( who came from a Welsh “ jam ” band called Man I used to book as an agent early 70's hence the introduction).
He was the only drummer they “ auditioned " for about an hour after I got him in.
The LH credits on Wikipedia/the sleeve are correct.
"Going Home" is a Linn, absolutely. I know because as a drummer I loathe them. I detest ALL drum machines.
MK programmed…….there wasn't anybody else to do! And that last “roll " is a rhythmic cliche but then he's not a drummer. Ha! ( But it worked ).
Steve Jordan did originally record the GH track but it was substituted because of issues to do with syncing with the film titles/credits at the end.
There are no typos.
Michael Brecker RIP is sax, Tony L and Neil J played as credited, all brilliant, so EASY.
7. Session players.
In the late 50's and up to late 60's bands RARELY performed on their own records except for the singers.
Time = money was the rule.
So session man Andy White played drums on " Love Me Do " by the Beatles because George Martin didn't feel Pete Best was good enough.
Playing in time was key ( no click tracks back then) and you did an A side and B side in 3 hours max ( otherwise they Union rate went up ).
A full album in maybe 2/3 days incl mixing.
Whatever you had by the end came out, good or not so good ( sometimes shit ) and nothing was EVER played back to the acts/singers ever, the producers ruled back then.
The main drummers were Clem Cattini ( 48 number ones, we don’t talk about Clem’s number two’s ) , Ronnie Verrell, Andy White, and Bobby Graham who did "You Really Got Me”, “ All of the Day”, and pretty much all The Kinks stuff and Ray's solo records.
He's also the drummer on most of the Dave Clark 5 records.
There were a similar number of guitarists...Big Jim Sullivan, Jimmy Page, Alan Parker, Ray Russell, a few bass players eg John Paul Jones, Herbie Flowers, Mo Foster, sax ( eg Ronnie Scott of jazz club fame is on Eleanor Rigby ), numerous backing singers ( both sexes) , percussionists ( Frank Ricotti) and so on.
All on Wikipedia under UK session musicians, a fascinating subject if you can get off MK/DS for a minute.
Same set up in NY and LA ( Wrecking Crew), Nashville , Motown, Stax.
They all got paid diddly squat sadly, about £43 an hour x 3 hours in the UK, a bit more if you "doubled" on instruments ( so every drummer had a tambourine).
Chris Whitten is entirely correct ( and about Jeff, Omar, Manu, all absolute masters of their craft ).
Terry Williams is on all that Rockpile stuff.....the king of what drummers call "the shuffle”.
For fact seekers, he’s on the intro to MFN and all of “ Walk of Life” ( which MK always saw as a non album B side until Neil D and I insisted it was a hit song) ..he’s also on the “ Twisting By The Pool " EP . “ Alchemy ” ( obviously ) , bits of ‘ Local Hero” , I can't recall what else.
8. Drinking and socialising.
This thread is complete nonsense ( but pretty funny ).
Re the Chet story, it was an “off the cuff ” remark.
All I meant was that MK had to swig the whisky MINIATURE to get the courage to take Chet's call ( although the two already knew each other) such was the esteem in which both of us held him. I was telling and mildly embellishing a story, not lying on a psychiatrist's chair.
Pavel's comment re “ Mak " is correct.
We stopped working together in 2000, so no, we don't “ socialise '’ ( I’m not even sure what that even means, fondling each other? ) and Chris Whitten is correct again, maybe he’s stalking me.
I'd say MK and I have a respectful relationship but we both moved on from each other years ago ( even the fondling stopped eventually, shit . )
Now I spend my time hanging out with drummers, going to Drum Fairs and watching Buddy Rich solos on You Tube.
Now Buddy liked puff, how did he play like that completely stoned? A true genius on his instrument.
On that last tour I was SO busy I couldn't cover as many shows as I would have liked and listening to " Calling Elvis " every night was not the best use of my time, which is why I made sure we had the best tour manager ( Tony Wigens ), Production Manager ( Alan Hornall), and a full and brilliant crew because it's a delusion to think you can do it on your own......at one point I think we had about 200+ on the road ( the stadiums ).
Again,Chris Whitten is dead right, bands living in each other’s pockets is a recipe for disaster.
In fact he's 92.6 % correct on all his quotes which is unusual for a drummer given the banging in the head and migraines they usually suffer from.
I LOVE his “ sort of ” comment re Crockford, classic.
To be clear Mark and I “ socialised " right up to when I quit ( mostly reading “ VIZ ” together…google it ), or munching burgers at Tootsies cafe in Notting Hill or meat pies at the Cock and Balls gastric pub in Olympia.
Is any of this important?
NO.
9. I will refrain from commenting on John's book at length except that the "Portland Oregon” ( BIA tour) he mentions was actually Portland MAINE 100 miles from Boston not 4000 which would have been physically impossible to do.
Apparently he did not get the book fact checked ( there are a number of errors as I'm sure the readers have discovered), so a bit disappointing given the opportunity ( except the nice things he says about me, it’s worth getting it for that alone ).
10. Hull University.
Deep Purple…...no but I did become their agent just a few years later …great band along with Black Sabbath who I also repped. I LOVED them, hilarious bunch.
We had The Who x 2 , Hendrix, The Kinks, Moody Blues x 2 , Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Pink Floyd x 2 , Free, John Mayall’s Bluesbreakers, Family x 2 ( the best of the lot) , Ten Years After, Jethro Tull, Joe Cocker, loads of jazz and folk artists etc etc etc
11. Tribute bands.
I’ll state the obvious, they exist because the “ main “ act has ceased functioning, broken up, fucked each others wives and/or died eg Beatles, Cream, ABBA, Led Zeppelin.
They are a response to public demand and pre Beatles ALL UK bands were “ cover bands " mainly playing American stuff or copying The Shadows ( the unsung heroes to all that generation especially guitarists to whom Hank Marvin was/is king ).
Mark and I played in loads of groups like that around Leeds (some of which only lasted a month ) mid Sixties. .
“Green Onions” was our starting point, then “ Bo Diddley ” ( which led to “ Calling Elvis ”.)
MK LOVES Bo Diddley, as I do ( and his son Diddley Diddley ).
Strangely we didn’t meet then although we went to the SAME music store ( Kitchens of Leeds) at the same time! Weird!
So "Tribute bands” are an extension except it’s ONE song source not many.
Trashing them is just musical snobbery to me.
I think David Gilmour had a Floyd Tribute band play at a birthday bash ( his ), probably the Australian bunch that Crockford manages ( sort of…ha!) so obviously he’s not bothered, remember it’s just pop music, nothing else.
Until the Beatles came along no one even THOUGHT of writing their own stuff, that came from “professional songwriters” or by copying the US ‘’ hits ” of the time. ( which is what The Beatles originally did eg ’Twist and Shout” by the Isley Brothers ).
When Chris White and Alan Clark formed the first one I saw them at The Royal Albert Hall and thought they were ff……..ing tremendous and why not ? There’s no rule out there that says former members can't be in their own tribute band, nobody is forcing the public to go.
The first person I ever saw do that was Bruce Welch in The Moonlight Shadows ( who were great). Now ABBA have avatars of themselves and AI is going to impact all this.
I helped that first version with a bit of advice, mainly about a legal concept called “ passing off ” which in essence means not misleading the public into thinking you’re Bo Diddley when you're not, especially if you’re dead.
Unfortunately it isn’t always possible to stop third parties eg dodgy promoters advertising as THEY think fit, and before anybody mentions “ contracts ” , most of the contracts in music are worthless, unenforceable and too expensive to sue anybody over even if it were possible ( eg in say, China, Japan, Leeds. ).
Unfortunately one person caused that lineup to splinter and no, I’m not naming , doesn’t matter…...here comes speculation.
For me the Dire Straits Experience are almost as good as the “ real thing ” and Terence Reis is something of a genius in the way he channels MK rather than copying him. The BEST of guys and players and really folks, it’s not that important in the scheme of things.
What they’ve achieved by talent and hard work is tremendous….….there you go I’ve given you a subject to debate.
Instead of bitching about them ( or any other tribute bands ) go and see them ( DSE) because you definitely won’t be seeing Dire Straits again.
I have no thoughts about DSL as a unit, haven’t seen just as I haven’t listened to anything Alan Clark has done.
Incidentally the song MK wrote on this subject could lyrically be about ANY tribute band, I’ve no idea and I’m not going to ask him ( or listen to it ) .
Anything else is just speculation based on what ?
He and I never discussed tribute bands and I can't imagine he spends any time thinking about them ( and as stated, John Illsley has played with various lineups as has Pick ).
Remember, “ Sultans of Swing ” is about a covers/tribute band who had taken THEIR name from a 1950’s American jazz band ( Panama Francis and The Savoy Sultans ).……
Chris Whitten is entirely correct in his comments about making a living playing music.
It’s really TOUGH and has become progressively tougher. If you can't play live at a profit you're stuffed, but you can always do it for fun, something that seems to be forgotten with music, so if you like the Kinks, form a tribute band and call them The Winks and get going.
And I must add here, Chris is really irritating with his endlessly correct comments but then he did play on “ The Whole of The Moon” so I'd forgive him anything…..aaaah, The Waterboys, one I tried to get but it didn’t work out…BUGGER.
By the way, Crockford did NOT manage the NHB’s and was not a “ support “ to me ( be serious, I wear a surgical truss for that ), he promoted some DS/NHB shows across the years and met MK via that, not otherwise.
12. Lastly, there’s an old thread re my “ contract ” and the split with MK.
Again, not important (certainly now) but I was not “ fired ”, if anything I “ resigned " for numerous reasons ( same comment re selling the rights I had ) and the speculation on that subject is wholly incorrect and anyway, why so strange to sell what you own ?
Bob Dylan has sold all his songs. So? They are HIS songs …ditto the many others who’ve done the same …when you get past 65 thoughts of mortality and avoiding/reducing Inheritance Tax creep in or the accountant tells you the plusses and minuses, especially if you have kids. Maybe guitar auctions come into the conversation? ( I have zero knowledge of that ).
All I will say here is that our parting was the inevitable conclusion to everything that took place from OES on and I don't mean musical direction.
As it happens I was NOT trying to keep DS going for money or any other reason, in many ways the opposite ( from 1986 to 1990 I NEVER mentioned the band to MK or vice versa. EVER )
The one thing nearly all your members consistently miss ( fair enough because there is no way they could know), is the impact people’s personal lives and inter-band relationships have on what is going on professionally, and that applies to ALL bands in my experience,
I can't think of a single exception.
That was the case in spades with OES ………
So I guess I better write a book then…….
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Well.
Maybe the best ever post on this forum since its inception 15 odd years ago.
Thank you jbaent and Chris W for facilitating, but most importantly, thank you Ed! Count me in for a copy of that book!
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Thanks Ed for your great message. I know you are reading so I had to say it!
I totally understand you don't want to get involved directly, and that's a pity as I guess no one would ever dare to say you are wrong on anything!
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So I guess I better write a book then…….
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
THANK GOD!
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hell yes, a book is what we need. this was the best post on our forum, since i founded it with a few other get-a-lifers as mark likes to call our kind.
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hell yes, a book is what we need. this was the best post on our forum, since i founded it with a few other get-a-lifers as mark likes to call our kind.
But with all honesty, who write books in the year 2024? Ed is a phenomenal storyteller and I'd much rather listen to his voice and look at his reactions than read a book. These interviews are goldmines, I can't remember laughing so hard over an interview with a music executive on YouTube. Ironically enough, Chet Atkins's interviews are hilarious too, you can tear yourself out of laughter. Truly, laughs, and jokes, and drinks, and smokes. How about this title for a book, ey?
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hell yes, a book is what we need. this was the best post on our forum, since i founded it with a few other get-a-lifers as mark likes to call our kind.
But with all honesty, who write books in the year 2024? Ed is a phenomenal storyteller and I'd much rather listen to his voice and look at his reactions than read a book. These interviews are goldmines, I can't remember laughing so hard over an interview with a music executive on YouTube. Ironically enough, Chet Atkins's interviews are hilarious too, you can tear yourself out of laughter. Truly, laughs, and jokes, and drinks, and smokes. How about this title for a book, ey?
well a friggin audio book then for folks like yourself and a good oldfashioned book for boomers like myself.
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hell yes, a book is what we need. this was the best post on our forum, since i founded it with a few other get-a-lifers as mark likes to call our kind.
But with all honesty, who write books in the year 2024? Ed is a phenomenal storyteller and I'd much rather listen to his voice and look at his reactions than read a book. These interviews are goldmines, I can't remember laughing so hard over an interview with a music executive on YouTube. Ironically enough, Chet Atkins's interviews are hilarious too, you can tear yourself out of laughter. Truly, laughs, and jokes, and drinks, and smokes. How about this title for a book, ey?
well a friggin audio book then for folks like yourself and a good oldfashioned book for boomers like myself.
Count me in!
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But with all honesty, who write books in the year 2024?
Um, books are still HUGELY popular. In recent years we've had books from some of the biggest celebrities in the world - Springsteen, Elton John, Britney Spears, Prince Harry etc etc etc
Just because you don't read books doesn't mean there aren't millions of others who do.
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But with all honesty, who write books in the year 2024?
Um, books are still HUGELY popular. In recent years we've had books from some of the biggest celebrities in the world - Springsteen, Elton John, Britney Spears, Prince Harry etc etc etc
Just because you don't read books doesn't mean there aren't millions of others who do.
Dusty, you are 100% wrong ;D Sorry for quoting the classics. Just because I don't want a book from Ed doesn't mean I'm not reading books. More than this, I would be more than happy if you'd suggest to me some of your favourite books. I work with guitar students all over the world daily, and it's quite an opportunity to ask for some nice book suggestions, I'm enjoying reading a bunch of American authors at the moment.
An audiobook is a perfect solution indeed, I just think about the amount of time it could take to write a book and then to record it. Gonna take years. And since it never happened, then probably for a reason. And don't forget most likely it's just a joke, after all, it's a perfect closing after an epic post for comedic effect. That's, folks, is what you get when there is a disconnect with a man in question :lol
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What a post by Ed! I could have paid already for that! My favourite line "They all got paid diddly squat sadly, about £43 an hour x 3 hours in the UK, a bit more if you "doubled" on instruments ( so every drummer had a tambourine)."
By the way, DSL just played in Finland and they performance was criticized in the biggest newspaper of the country. But if the audience were happy that is the most important thing. And I guess that those who wouldn't be happy are not going to those tribute gigs...
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But with all honesty, who write books in the year 2024?
Um, books are still HUGELY popular. In recent years we've had books from some of the biggest celebrities in the world - Springsteen, Elton John, Britney Spears, Prince Harry etc etc etc
Just because you don't read books doesn't mean there aren't millions of others who do.
Dusty, you are 100% wrong ;D Sorry for quoting the classics. Just because I don't want a book from Ed doesn't mean I'm not reading books. More than this, I would be more than happy if you'd suggest to me some of your favourite books. I work with guitar students all over the world daily, and it's quite an opportunity to ask for some nice book suggestions, I'm enjoying reading a bunch of American authors at the moment.
An audiobook is a perfect solution indeed, I just think about the amount of time it could take to write a book and then to record it. Gonna take years. And since it never happened, then probably for a reason. And don't forget most likely it's just a joke, after all, it's a perfect closing after an epic post for comedic effect. That's, folks, is what you get when there is a disconnect with a man in question :lol
I tend to read only non-fiction about music or film, not sure if that's your thing?
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Fantastic! Thank you, Ed (and Chris and jbaent for making this happen). And how I'd wish it had been you who'd written that DS book, not John ...
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Re books, I think Pavel has a Master's degree in Generalization. Of course people still buy books. Printed ones. Music stores are gone, mostly, but there are book stores everywhere. I just bought Crime And Punishment (Dostovsky), at the airport no less.
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Re books, I think Pavel has a Master's degree in Generalization. Of course people still buy books. Printed ones. Music stores are gone, mostly, but there are book stores everywhere. I just bought Crime And Punishment (Dostovsky), at the airport no less.
I'd say, people are masters in missing the point in my posts :lol I agree Ed is the second person to Mark a book about Dire Straits would be worth it, not John. With that said, how popular was John's book anyway? 176 reviews on Amazon are not bad, I suppose. However, Bruce Springstee's book has 13,125 reviews. I'm not sure how popular Ed's book could be, but I doubt it would sell in spades. Hence my doubt about the success of this thing and reasoning for doing interviews/podcasts that are much easier to do. The fact that 10 people on AMIT are going to buy this book won't be enough for Sir Edward to grab a pen I'm afraid!
Congrats on enjoying Crime And Punishment! Mind you, I actually read this thing in original language! :wave
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Wow! Lots of important and valuable messages from Ed. I read with great interest. Thank you Ed, thank you jbaent :)
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I'd say, people are masters in missing the point in my posts :lol I agree Ed is the second person to Mark a book about Dire Straits would be worth it, not John. With that said, how popular was John's book anyway? 176 reviews on Amazon are not bad, I suppose. However, Bruce Springstee's book has 13,125 reviews. I'm not sure how popular Ed's book could be, but I doubt it would sell in spades. Hence my doubt about the success of this thing and reasoning for doing interviews/podcasts that are much easier to do. The fact that 10 people on AMIT are going to buy this book won't be enough for Sir Edward to grab a pen I'm afraid!
Oh, come on. John's book couldn't have been duller even if he tried to. Ed's wit, sense of humor and 'no-holds-barrred' attitude would have made people who hate DS buy the book.
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I'd say, people are masters in missing the point in my posts :lol I agree Ed is the second person to Mark a book about Dire Straits would be worth it, not John. With that said, how popular was John's book anyway? 176 reviews on Amazon are not bad, I suppose. However, Bruce Springstee's book has 13,125 reviews. I'm not sure how popular Ed's book could be, but I doubt it would sell in spades. Hence my doubt about the success of this thing and reasoning for doing interviews/podcasts that are much easier to do. The fact that 10 people on AMIT are going to buy this book won't be enough for Sir Edward to grab a pen I'm afraid!
Oh, come on. John's book couldn't have been duller even if he tried to. Ed's wit, sense of humor and 'no-holds-barrred' attitude would have made people who hate DS buy the book.
Yeah, you know what, it's possible. I wonder why he never thought about writing a book, it's so obvious of an idea in his situation after so many years of a successful and fruitful career, and more than this — he obviously has A LOT to say about these things, and he can barely stop even writing this message to AMIT, so many good words and observations.
Kudos to Ed, by the way, while he admits that we fans, as a group, are a little bit "mad", he's doing it in a very friendly and polite way, not falling into scolding and teaching about life, with the usual sense of humour and humbleness. A delightful experience.
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An emblematic and historic post, I believe it is the best I could say about Ed Bicknell's participation here on the forum, thank you Ed, Chris and Julio. :clap :clap :clap :clap
Honestly, I've been dreaming for a long time about a book written by Ed Bicknell talking about his career with Dire Straits, NHB and Mark Knopfler, I have no doubt that it would be very fun and enlightening, without waste, I hope this becomes a reality soon , I would make a point of purchasing my copy, like many here, with the exception of course of Pavel, sometimes he makes me believe that he lives in a parallel reality when he quotes things like: "But with all honesty, who writes books in the year 2024?" or "I'd much rather listen to his voice and look at his reactions than read a book." Anyway... I hope Ed doesn't think that way, it would be a waste and a sacrilege given the wealth of an eyewitness between 1977/2000, stories and information that he could offer through a book of his own, it would be a precise gift for all of us.
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"...or the technical studio stuff which Guy has more than covered even though he can’t change a plug."
I found that hilarious. :lol
LE
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Oh my freaking God, I said this line about books only about the fact that I think Ed is a better speaker and storyteller than a writer. Have you seen a lot of books written by Ed? I haven't! Not a single one. If you saw it please let me know. But I saw what he can do in an interview situation, that's all. That is all. I don't want to burn all the books Fahrenheit 451 style.
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Well I know where you're coming from with this opinion and I agree about how great his interviews are, but I found this post was brilliantly written, funny, witty, to the point and very refreshing in the way he was open about all sorts of things. In fact it was written exactly as he speaks. If he would write a book in that style, I would even buy two copies. ;D
LE
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Cool post from Ed! One could almost wonder if it's a joke, but the style seems to be his.
So it turns out that Terry plays on Walk of Life, but not John. What little we know, we mere mortals ;D
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Also interesting to me that Mark is the one who thought Walk of Life was a throwaway b-side and Neil and the band (and Ed) had to talk him into including it. The way I remember hearing it was that Neil hated it and didn't think it fit with the rest of the album and Mark and the boys overruled him.
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Cool post from Ed! One could almost wonder if it's a joke, but the style seems to be his.
So it turns out that Terry plays on Walk of Life, but not John. What little we know, we mere mortals ;D
We are very lucky fans, aren't we? :lol
I'm just amazed that EB found time to react and write down some of the thoughts, and I have to agree with Chris here, most of the stuff discussed on this forum is simply guessing and deducing, and it's great to see actual people actually react to stuff. Mark rarely gives interviews, is not present on social media and couldn't care less about writing books, John's book is not highly detailed, Ed's book does not exist at all (and my money is on the book line being a joke). All we have is Guy Fletcher and old interviews. Nice. So at least Ed now understands the magnitude of the dire straits situation we've got here.
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Also interesting to me that Mark is the one who thought Walk of Life was a throwaway b-side and Neil and the band (and Ed) had to talk him into including it. The way I remember hearing it was that Neil hated it and didn't think it fit with the rest of the album and Mark and the boys overruled him.
Surprisingly, Wikipedia gets this fact right: "Mark Knopfler had not originally intended "Walk of Life" for the album, but rather as a B-side to one of the singles. Dire Straits manager Ed Bicknell heard it when it was being mixed and convinced Knopfler to include it on the album at the last minute"
To be honest, Neil's version is kinda more plausible and makes more sense. From which planet do you need to arrive to think Walk Of Life is a throwaway B-side song? After writing it yourself? Like, what? Probably planet Knopfler. If it was a demo or something then maybe yes. But the way it sounds on the album is obvious instant hit. It could explain the random nature of bonus songs we have today if Mark is so unsure about his hits. That sounds like a good question to Mark.
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What great insights from Ed.
Aside from the DS content, a book from Ed would be a great document about how the UK music industry evolved from the 60s through to the 21st century. There aren't many people still around who worked through that entire era who still have their sanity and/or memory.
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Best post ever! Thanks so much, Ed, Chris and Jbaent. Epic. Historic.
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Ed, if you read the forum, a BIG THANK YOU for all these infos :clap :wave
and thanks to Chris and Julio for making this possible
and brilliantly written : funny and informative at the same time. I Loved it
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"Guy is the BEST guy out of many guys I’ve misguyded over the years." — Ed Bicknell
What a great line. And this is exactly my thoughts on Guy as well. I criticise him a big deal all the time because we probably have opposed tastes in everything, on the other hand, I respect Mark and understand he won't be working with an idiot for 40 years straight in a partnership lasting longer than his marriages, and I know I'm in the wrong, just sometimes can't help myself because the only idiot here is me. Not even starting to talk about Guy being practically the only window into MK world fans ever had for like 30 years.
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I'm very proud that Ed Bicknell decided, through Chris Whitten, to express himself writing to me.bindont know why I deserved such an honour, but it's a highlight for me as a Dire Straits fan, I always consider Ed as another band member, like George Martin was called the 5th Beatle, and I always defended that Ed had a big role, together with MK's talent, in the success of the band.
I also had the luck to cross my path with him twice at the RAH and he was very nice, kind and funny in both occasions.
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I'm very proud that Ed Bicknell decided, through Chris Whitten, to express himself writing to me.bindont know why I deserved such an honour, but it's a highlight for me as a Dire Straits fan, I always consider Ed as another band member, like George Martin was called the 5th Beatle, and I always defended that Ed had a big role, together with MK's talent, in the success of the band.
I also had the luck to cross my path with him twice at the RAH and he was very nice, kind and funny in both occasions.
Ed knows a good man when he sees one Julio!
Ed gave me a set list at the end of the NHB gig in Stirling in 97, what a guy.
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"Guy is the BEST guy out of many guys I’ve misguyded over the years." — Ed Bicknell
What a great line. And this is exactly my thoughts on Guy as well. I criticise him a big deal all the time because we probably have opposed tastes in everything, on the other hand, I respect Mark and understand he won't be working with an idiot for 40 years straight in a partnership lasting longer than his marriages, and I know I'm in the wrong, just sometimes can't help myself because the only idiot here is me. Not even starting to talk about Guy being practically the only window into MK world fans ever had for like 30 years.
We should print and frame this post, to hang it on the AMIT wall... Quite an unique post from Quizzy
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I'm very proud that Ed Bicknell decided, through Chris Whitten, to express himself writing to me.bindont know why I deserved such an honour, but it's a highlight for me as a Dire Straits fan, I always consider Ed as another band member, like George Martin was called the 5th Beatle, and I always defended that Ed had a big role, together with MK's talent, in the success of the band.
I also had the luck to cross my path with him twice at the RAH and he was very nice, kind and funny in both occasions.
Ed knows a good man when he sees one Julio!
Ed gave me a set list at the end of the NHB gig in Stirling in 97, what a guy.
Thats the most beautiful thing I've been told, I never expected that from a Scotish, LOL
Thanks amigo!
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"Guy is the BEST guy out of many guys I’ve misguyded over the years." — Ed Bicknell
What a great line. And this is exactly my thoughts on Guy as well. I criticise him a big deal all the time because we probably have opposed tastes in everything, on the other hand, I respect Mark and understand he won't be working with an idiot for 40 years straight in a partnership lasting longer than his marriages, and I know I'm in the wrong, just sometimes can't help myself because the only idiot here is me. Not even starting to talk about Guy being practically the only window into MK world fans ever had for like 30 years.
We should print and frame this post, to hang it on the AMIT wall... Quite an unique post from Quizzy
Just do it!
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"Guy is the BEST guy out of many guys I’ve misguyded over the years." — Ed Bicknell
What a great line. And this is exactly my thoughts on Guy as well. I criticise him a big deal all the time because we probably have opposed tastes in everything, on the other hand, I respect Mark and understand he won't be working with an idiot for 40 years straight in a partnership lasting longer than his marriages, and I know I'm in the wrong, just sometimes can't help myself because the only idiot here is me. Not even starting to talk about Guy being practically the only window into MK world fans ever had for like 30 years.
We should print and frame this post, to hang it on the AMIT wall... Quite an unique post from Quizzy
Just do it!
*proceeds to hang only the part where I say I'm an idiot* :lol :lol :lol
Seriously, misguiding people is ok. Misguyding Guy is normal, misguiding me is normal. Guy is not a weird tape-loving Hawaiian shirt lava-lamp maniac who loves to move microphones all the time. I'm not a psycho who trolls and bullies everyone on this forum and constantly criticises everything. We all have our weaknesses, but it's our strengths and light side we should ultimately be paying attention to.
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I'm very proud that Ed Bicknell decided, through Chris Whitten, to express himself writing to me.bindont know why I deserved such an honour, but it's a highlight for me as a Dire Straits fan, I always consider Ed as another band member, like George Martin was called the 5th Beatle, and I always defended that Ed had a big role, together with MK's talent, in the success of the band.
I also had the luck to cross my path with him twice at the RAH and he was very nice, kind and funny in both occasions.
Ed knows a good man when he sees one Julio!
Ed gave me a set list at the end of the NHB gig in Stirling in 97, what a guy.
Thats the most beautiful thing I've been told, I never expected that from a Scotish, LOL
Thanks amigo!
It’s true, I’ve known you a long time and you are a great friend.
I love that we argue about all this stuff but we never fall out about it, because we realise that none of it really matters one bit. :)
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Epic post!
I think what most characterizes the relationship between MK and EB, which was the glue that held the band together, is the humor they shared. MK, despite his serious and reserved demeanor, must be a first-rate joker who likes to tease and laugh. This became the fuel and energy to carry on over long distances, and it welds a group together.
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Epic post!
I think what most characterizes the relationship between MK and EB, which was the glue that held the band together, is the humor they shared. MK, despite his serious and reserved demeanor, must be a first-rate joker who likes to tease and laugh. This became the fuel and energy to carry on over long distances, and it welds a group together.
Mark once said he'd rather go to a cemetery and dig graves than work with somebody who lacks a sense of humour. I always say if God wants to punish a person, he deprives this person of a sense of humour. Mark is hilarious. He jokes nearly in all interviews from the day he started doing them. I remember watching one of the meet-and-greet videos where Mark kicked a ukulele and thought — boy, they have quite some fun.
I can't imagine how many hilarious stories and anecdotes never made it to the public. All my favourite artists, actors, musicians, scientists, poets, whoever it is, are first-class jokers. One of the reasons why I shared this Ed's interview was I just laughed so hard my jaw started hurting. Laughing is the best weapon to deal with anything, especially when you're in dire straits. It's all about optimism and joy.
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Epic post!
I think what most characterizes the relationship between MK and EB, which was the glue that held the band together, is the humor they shared. MK, despite his serious and reserved demeanor, must be a first-rate joker who likes to tease and laugh. This became the fuel and energy to carry on over long distances, and it welds a group together.
Mark once said he'd rather go to a cemetery and dig graves than work with somebody who lacks a sense of humour. I always say if God wants to punish a person, he deprives this person of a sense of humour. Mark is hilarious. He jokes nearly in all interviews from the day he started doing them. I remember watching one of the meet-and-greet videos where Mark kicked a ukulele and thought — boy, they have quite some fun.
I can't imagine how many hilarious stories and anecdotes never made it to the public. All my favourite artists, actors, musicians, scientists, poets, whoever it is, are first-class jokers. One of the reasons why I shared this Ed's interview was I just laughed so hard my jaw started hurting. Laughing is the best weapon to deal with anything, especially when you're in dire straits. It's all about optimism and joy.
So true man, he's always made little jokes, but they're terribly effective, especially the famous "is anyone hurt?", "let's go girls" or "you and I'll go first, then the others, good luck"...and so on....
But at the end of the day, we're all like that, we do a job that we may or may not like, but if we do it in good company and with a laugh, it's much better!
But Ed ! Man thx for the video, Ed is a killer 😂😂
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MK, despite his serious and reserved demeanor, must be a first-rate joker who likes to tease and laugh.
I only ever saw the serious.
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MK, despite his serious and reserved demeanor, must be a first-rate joker who likes to tease and laugh.
I only ever saw the serious.
You know better than anyone that timing is everything.
Seems to me you were unfortunate in that you worked with him at maybe the most unhappy he has ever been in his life.
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Yes.
There were a lot of smiles on stage during the BIA tour and probably a lot of laughs. OES was pretty grim from beginning to end. Not only Mark, but Alan was also a dark presence.
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Yes.
There were a lot of smiles on stage during the BIA tour and probably a lot of laughs. OES was pretty grim from beginning to end. Not only Mark, but Alan was also a dark presence.
So much more impressive knowing this, that you guys gave us such superb live experiences back in 1992. Knowing that the working experience was not exactly a fun place to be. I would never have thought that back then, it was hidden very well.
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MK, despite his serious and reserved demeanor, must be a first-rate joker who likes to tease and laugh.
I only ever saw the serious.
Sorry to hear that, maybe it's because he wasn't happy and decided to move on?
However, as the leader of a group, I'll be responsible for making sure everyone, at least as many people as possible (because you can't please everyone), I'll make sure the mood and atmosphere at work is pleasant and bearable, at the end of the day, we don't have to be best friends, but getting along for the trip is cool! Sad.
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Especially being so long, more than a year.
Anyway, most of us made the best of it. Many of the shows were fantastic. Fabulous arenas and stadiums, thousands of crazy enthusiastic fans.
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Another message from Ed B:
Hi there Skid Marks,
I'm going to break my own rule and send this response, more as a thank you for the gratifying and kind comments about my previous post than anything, they were much appreciated ( and genuinely surprised me.)
There seems to be uncertainty about who played bass on the BIA trax.
After checking with Neil Dorfsman, and from my own direct observations and putting the credits together ….
John played on SFA, MFN, WOL (yes),YLT, TMTS
Tony Levin played on RATR, WW, BIA.
Neil Jason played on OW.
I’m sure you can figure out why the credits were done the way they were …..and now you know what drum bits Terry did and were kept and what Omar Hakim REdid in Montserrat.
That just leaves Jack RIP who put guitar synth on TMTS ( for which, incidentally, M wrote a completely different set of lyrics just to entertain the crew at soundchecks ie filthy, disgusting, REALLY disgusting and hilarious. )
Pottel is entirely correct re Chet’s personality.
The FIRST time I met him in Nashville airport, he introduced himself “ hi, ah’m Chet At At At uuurgh Atkins, sheeeeet I got me the biggest dick in N N N….Nashville. “
Since M and I had only just arrived I don't know how he knew that but you get the picture ( no I don’t mean of his dick).
The absolute BEST guy.
Out there Elvis stories , a true gent RIP and a privilege to have fondled his teeth.
WOL.
I had been travelling and when I got back to NY I popped into the Power Station where Neil and Mark were recording his vocals ( no, not together! )
They had just put up WOL which I'd not heard before.
“ What’s this?” I said.
“ Ah, nothing, it's just a B side “ responded M. I don't recall Neil saying anything and I’ve no idea where this idea that he ‘hated” it came from ( maybe he does, he’s 99% deaf anyway…that’s good in his line of work ).
“ But that’s a hit song” …I squeaked which led to a 5 minute debate about whether it should be included on the album or not.
“ So it's good enough to be a B side but it's NOT good enough to go on the record?” I asked.
Sheer brilliance on my part, I mean COME ON …...M rarely if ever took a commercial view of his music so just as well I was around. Ha! ( The band weren’t there so not involved ).
So it went on the album and the single A side version sold more Worldwide than MFN.
It was “inspired” by the organ sound of The Animals…...a fave of both M’s and mine when we wuz yung, a Farfisa I think.
That’s a v kind comment Jabent.
George Martin was one of my closest, closest friends up to his passing …a bit of a hero as a person (not because of the FABS ).
Same goes for Peter Grant ( def not because of Zeppelin but because I have a natural affinity with thugs and gangsters ).
Incidentally Pavel, how do you know Guy has lava lamps, that’ s supposed to be a secret ?
Now, today’s star prize, YOU, Pavel, get 11 out of 10 for your comment re humour , the never stated ingredient that makes it all work or in the absence of, not work.
Absolutely crucial and we all had …well maybe not ALL, but most of us did until around 1990 when certain members of our family lost theirs big time.
Again Chris W is 100% right.
He only saw “serious” because that was all there WAS to see and Dusty Springfield’s comment is extremely perceptive.
Extremely, as is Chris’ about BIA and he wasn’t even on that !
That was a career highlight for sure.
LOTS of laughs , great lineup, great music, amazing audiences and once in a while, a girl with no teeth and a wooden leg would lurch into view and tap dance ( no offence intended to the one legged).
Camerado is right, absolutely, the BAND and CREW made OES work and became experts in disguising the sheer misery and toxicity of it and ultimately that’s why I eventually quit ( it had a quite “disturbing” effect on us all I think, mentally and physically ).
And Chris very subtly refers to another “issue” which you can now speculate about.
I hinted about that in the Tribute band bit of the previous post and I’m NOT trying to be coy, but all this really needs to go in a movie, a TV series, hardback book, paperback book, audio book, DVD, CD, an AI version of someone who isn’t me reading it to someone who isn’t you, all for £9.99 including VAT , AND a book tour.
That’s it. I’m out of here, apologies for being a bit more serious in this one. .
The Colonel.
No, not that one.
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More fantastic stuff for us keyboard detectives to pick through, thanks so much to Ed and of course Chris for facilitating. :)
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More fantastic stuff for us keyboard detectives to pick through, thanks so much to Ed and of course Chris for facilitating. :)
People say laughing prolongs your life. Well, Ed has already given me a couple of extra years to live, thank you very much :lol
Regarding lava lamps, you don't need to be Hercule Poirot to notice Guy loves them, besides, I studied the history of their creation and they are AWESOME. A completely analogue experience, it warms up like a tube amplifier, each of them is genuinely unique, and it looks cool. I'd like to have one.
It's a combination of attention to detail, good memory and experience of being a fan and like everybody else here doing, according to EB, "what being a fan is about".
I never make stuff up and usually back my reasoning and deduction if not completely by facts, but with at least something real, either a quote I remember, a photo, a fact or the absence of a fact because it's also always a good clue. That's why I'm so offended when I get told I live in fantasy. If anything, I steer AWAY from fantasy as much as possible.
There's no smoke without fire and simple deduction can go a long way. For instance... A severe lack of facts and first-hand evidence multiplied by the ongoing real engagement towards the band that ceased to exist 30 years ago multiplied by a lot of controversy and speculation on forums = the man who cares steps up and clears a lot of the misconceptions. Thanks for being this man who cares, Ed, and of course, Chris. You rock!
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I could read Ed's comments and listen to his interviews for hours. He truly has a knack for storytelling and keeping one engaged.
Write a book, Ed! I'll buy it!
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Thanks very much Ed for writing again a post for us, we really appreciate all you've done for the band in the past and the great influence and role you had in their success, I always insist in considering you as another DS member almost of importance like MK, I'm sure that in some situations even more!
I guess that the person you are mentioning in your comments is Alan. As I posted in other thread as far as I know The Straits divided in two bands because Alan wanted to write songs for the band and play them (they got to play one titled "Jesus street" in several concerts) and Chris and Terence only wanted to play the hits. Whitten 's comment about Alan darkness during OES tour makes me think he's the one you are talking about.
That darkness comments remind me that Phil Palmer wrote in his book that Alan was a joker and did some ones during the tour like painting a wall in a Spanish hotel (Cáceres) with joke draws of certain members of the band, being MK the star of those joke draws! As Phil mentioned in his book, Alan payed very happily to the hotel for all the damage telling it worthed every penny!
I hope we can read more from you Ed, as I also told, nobody here is going to put in doubt anything you tell us, who would dare!
Also, man, you are full of stories, and have the funniest way to tell them, please think about that book of memories!
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I was scrolling through this post reading it and hoped it would be endlessly long. I was sad seeing it end which is not the usual reaction with long posts ;D
Thank you very much for taking the time, really clearing things up and being so precise about everything. It seems that the combination of MK and you made a big unique world wide success unevitable. You seem to be the best thing that could have happened to the band, Ed.
Feel free to come back here whenever you like. It is such a joy to read your stuff that I would also be happy to read about anything else from you. All this knowledge about musicians, bands, the industry is so precious.
So again thanks a lot!
LE
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I LOVE you, Ed. Marry me.
That was Fantastic.
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I completely agree with others! Would be great to read more, not just about Dire Straits but your journey in general.
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Thanks Chris and Ed. The part regarding the recording of WOL totally makes sense and Mark still appears to be deaf at times. Guy may be a loyal right hand but he's no EB.
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Thanks Chris and Ed. The part regarding the recording of WOL totally makes sense and Mark still appears to be deaf at times. Guy may be a loyal right hand but he's no EB.
I have always thought that the style and feeling of Walk life was quite different compared to general atmosphere of the album and thus the consideration for a B side.
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That's why I'm so offended when I get told I live in fantasy. If anything, I steer AWAY from fantasy as much as possible.
I think Ed's first message was to clear up a lot of discussion on the forum that was wide of the mark regarding the facts.
I feel I have corrected a lot of misinformation in my time at the forum, from the perspective of someone who was there for 1.5 years.
I think you can celebrate Ed's contributions this week without seeking to gloss over some past missteps.
Fact is, fans do a lot of guess work, especially when there is a dearth of fact available.
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I have always thought that the style and feeling of Walk life was quite different compared to general atmosphere of the album and thus the consideration for a B side.
One of DS' biggest early hits was 'Twisting By The Pool', a record they seem to have wanted to distance themselves from since. I see Walk Of Life in the same mould as 'Twisting...' albeit a lot better. Again it was a big hit. Strange that Mark kept writing obvious hit records in that 'rock and roll' style, but wasn't that confident about them.
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many thanks again Ed ! :thumbsup
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Just catching up on this, thanks to Ed for his insights and to CW and Julio for facilitating. Amazing stuff. I'd definitely buy a book written by Ed!
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That's why I'm so offended when I get told I live in fantasy. If anything, I steer AWAY from fantasy as much as possible.
I think Ed's first message was to clear up a lot of discussion on the forum that was wide of the mark regarding the facts.
I feel I have corrected a lot of misinformation in my time at the forum, from the perspective of someone who was there for 1.5 years.
I think you can celebrate Ed's contributions this week without seeking to gloss over some past missteps.
Fact is, fans do a lot of guess work, especially when there is a dearth of fact available.
Another fact is, even by reading your and Ed's messages you can tell fans often get a lot of facts straight despite the lack of information and first-hand evidence, and frankly, given how little fans truly have, a whole bunch of stuff IS known and correctly observed. I think this miracle should be as celebrated as the fact Dire Straits' manager and drummer stepped up into the discussion.
We are all human beings and we are all making mistakes sometimes, and dare I say it — I don't think even you and Ed are 100% right all the time, it's just a perspective. A valuable, first-hand, indisputable, but still a perspective. We have a mutual enemy which is misbelief, and we're all brothers in arms here to fight it with all we've got so as not to end in dire straits. So why worry?
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It's just sad when guess work is used to lambast people....often quite abusively.
If you weren't there, it's not a crime to post positive guesses and positive thoughts.
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"Dusty Springfield’s comment" :lol
Ed, if I die out of laughter, it will be your fault.
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It's just sad when guess work is used to lambast people....often quite abusively.
If you weren't there, it's not a crime to post positive guesses and positive thoughts.
Chris, you have to understand that what you would read in a fan forum is a mix of opinions and "facts" that we've read or listen in articles or interviews, and most of that opinions are influenced by those articles and interviews, and many times is needed more than one side of the story to know what are accurate facts and what not.
I understand that you still feel hurt by some of our opinions about your time in the band, and you're right as we knew very little or almost nothing about your time in the band until you came here and enlighten us with everything regarding your period in the band, and we're thankful about it. Fans we are always looking for facts so when we discuss in the future we can base on that more than about rumours and opinions based on false facts.
Again, thanks for help us to understand better your period in the band, and everything related about you, with the band, before and after. We can be more positive now as we know facts we didn't when we only related to our opinions. We own you gratitude.
There's a million things all of us we would like to ask Ed specially after John Illsley's book that have a lot of facts quite contrary to things we've read in articles or interviews during all this years, most of them probably for the past of time that mix memories. Specially about Terry Williams not being in the OES record, only at the beginning of it, and not being considered for the tour, being known for being a great rock drummer for the band, and also all that happened between MK and Jack after the BIA tour, that we know from Jack Sonni podcast and made us feel so sad about how MK treated him. I'm sure someone could point to that podcast, I can't now as I'm on my phone and it's hard to have multiple tabs at the time, lol
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Also interesting to me that Mark is the one who thought Walk of Life was a throwaway b-side and Neil and the band (and Ed) had to talk him into including it. The way I remember hearing it was that Neil hated it and didn't think it fit with the rest of the album and Mark and the boys overruled him.
Surprisingly, Wikipedia gets this fact right: "Mark Knopfler had not originally intended "Walk of Life" for the album, but rather as a B-side to one of the singles. Dire Straits manager Ed Bicknell heard it when it was being mixed and convinced Knopfler to include it on the album at the last minute"
To be honest, Neil's version is kinda more plausible and makes more sense. From which planet do you need to arrive to think Walk Of Life is a throwaway B-side song? After writing it yourself? Like, what? Probably planet Knopfler. If it was a demo or something then maybe yes. But the way it sounds on the album is obvious instant hit. It could explain the random nature of bonus songs we have today if Mark is so unsure about his hits. That sounds like a good question to Mark.
WOL was first issued as SFA flip side.
It was a surprise to me to see it re released as a main single later.
And I quite understand that WOL wasn't the kind of song Mark was focusing on during that time.
Let's do a little uptempo country song and have some fun time.
BTW BIA seems to be an album without song recorded and left out from the CD.
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Thank you Ed B and Chris W
Have been a member forum for 12 years, since Privateering was launched. Reading time after time, enjoying debate, posts and news
When i registered, this was only a chat space between fans
But now, we are the luckiest fans in the world
Thank you Ed and Chris
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Yes, it's a great joy to read posts by musicians of your beloved band. Amazing time. Thanks again Ed and Chris.
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Very glad to have another entertaining and enlightening post from Ed.
Glad to hear about John's playing on BIA. It seems hard to understand why they would go with another player for BIA rather than YLT, but there it is. Hard to guess. And Neil Jason's comments on playing on other songs turn out to be misleading ultimately.
As for WOL, I have come across the idea of the band overruling the producer to include it many times, so that was an old established myth. Glad to learn the facts.
Chris, not sure that Twisting was a hit, but it was the single from the EP. Two Young Lovers remained a staple live though (BIA and your tour of course), and was definitely the better choice.
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It's just sad when guess work is used to lambast people....often quite abusively.
If you weren't there, it's not a crime to post positive guesses and positive thoughts.
Chris, you have to understand that what you would read in a fan forum is a mix of opinions and "facts" that we've read or listen in articles or interviews, and most of that opinions are influenced by those articles and interviews, and many times is needed more than one side of the story to know what are accurate facts and what not.
I understand that you still feel hurt by some of our opinions about your time in the band, and you're right as we knew very little or almost nothing about your time in the band until you came here and enlighten us with everything regarding your period in the band, and we're thankful about it. Fans we are always looking for facts so when we discuss in the future we can base on that more than about rumours and opinions based on false facts.
Again, thanks for help us to understand better your period in the band, and everything related about you, with the band, before and after. We can be more positive now as we know facts we didn't when we only related to our opinions. We own you gratitude.
There's a million things all of us we would like to ask Ed specially after John Illsley's book that have a lot of facts quite contrary to things we've read in articles or interviews during all this years, most of them probably for the past of time that mix memories. Specially about Terry Williams not being in the OES record, only at the beginning of it, and not being considered for the tour, being known for being a great rock drummer for the band, and also all that happened between MK and Jack after the BIA tour, that we know from Jack Sonni podcast and made us feel so sad about how MK treated him. I'm sure someone could point to that podcast, I can't now as I'm on my phone and it's hard to have multiple tabs at the time, lol
I must confess I do have a bias towards some people or things, and all of them have provided reasons for me to have a bias which I can always elaborate on, rarely do they do something to get rid of this bias, as people generally do not change much, and I feel happy each time this bias gets destroyed when it seldomly happens. I do not feel good about having a bias in the first place, but I can't stop it from appearing either. Most importantly, I realise I'm an easy target for biased attacks myself just because I'm so straightforward and active, so I do my best to address any complaints and clear out any misconceptions about me.
Getting a bit philosophical here, my point is there's always a person behind ones and zeros and forum posts, a person behind a tribute band, a person behind legendary hits and classic lines, and people aren't perfect. Far from perfect, in fact. It's important to call people out when they are wrong and praise them when they are right, it's something the AMIT forum has gotten very good at lately thanks to all of us, CW and EB included. Ed's message is nothing but calling us all out, and there's nothing better than a healthy doze of quality, just-what-the-doctor-ordered criticism, everybody's happy about that.
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Sometimes I don't understand a single word that I read.
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Wow, it's pretty hard for me to keep up with all the new information.
Thanks Ed and Chris for all your contributions that keep me on my toes. :thumbsup
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Sometimes I don't understand a single word that I read.
I'm not sure it's an answer to my post, as it doesn't contain any quotes and names, just in case here's a simplified (haha) map of my thinking for you (I'm truly sorry):
Chris said he's upset when people guess stuff and "quite abusively" lambast somebody they never knew and commit a crime (apparently) by writing negative thoughts about them if you "weren't there" —> You (jbaent) wrote a polite answer explaining it's not about offending people but expressing opinions —> My addition to that is I do sometimes tend to criticise a person based on what they said, did or never did, their ACTIONS affect my attitude, it's not guessing. Actions speak louder than words.
Actions speak louder than words even when Chris and Ed find time to write messages on this forum, work on clearing misconceptions, getting facts straight. They care about Dire Straits, they care about fans, they care about truth, they care about legacy. You can't take this away from them just like you can't take away the fact Mark was able to pull off an entire 1.5-year world tour without a flinch while being in probably the shittiest place in his life since becoming famous. It's an ACTION.
I wonder what I need to guess if a misleading name of a tribute band misleads fans into thinking it's the real deal. They did this action, they got a response. Where guessing is involved here? Where exactly guessing is involved in any of the "controversial" topics for that matter? People do bad things, people get bad responses. People do good things, people get good responses. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Newton's third law. It's not rocket science!
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"Dusty Springfield’s comment" :lol
Ed, if I die out of laughter, it will be your fault.
I only wanna be with you Quizzy :)
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WOL.
I had been travelling and when I got back to NY I popped into the Power Station where Neil and Mark were recording his vocals ( no, not together! )
They had just put up WOL which I'd not heard before.
“ What’s this?” I said.
“ Ah, nothing, it's just a B side “ responded M. I don't recall Neil saying anything and I’ve no idea where this idea that he ‘hated” it came from ( maybe he does, he’s 99% deaf anyway…that’s good in his line of work ).
“ But that’s a hit song” …I squeaked which led to a 5 minute debate about whether it should be included on the album or not.
“ So it's good enough to be a B side but it's NOT good enough to go on the record?” I asked.
Sheer brilliance on my part, I mean COME ON …...M rarely if ever took a commercial view of his music so just as well I was around. Ha! ( The band weren’t there so not involved ).
So it went on the album and the single A side version sold more Worldwide than MFN.
Sorry Ed. I will stop posting stuff like this, as I obviously misremember or conflate stories I heard 25-40 years ago.
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Thanks again, Chris and Ed! Second best post in the history of AMIT. May we get a third best? ;)
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That's why I'm so offended when I get told I live in fantasy. If anything, I steer AWAY from fantasy as much as possible.
I think Ed's first message was to clear up a lot of discussion on the forum that was wide of the mark regarding the facts.
I feel I have corrected a lot of misinformation in my time at the forum, from the perspective of someone who was there for 1.5 years.
I think you can celebrate Ed's contributions this week without seeking to gloss over some past missteps.
Fact is, fans do a lot of guess work, especially when there is a dearth of fact available.
i keep hoping you stay on and not get demotivated too much by the little amount of negativism that pops up every now and then (some may interpret this as a grave understatement, up to you)
the insight you keep delivering is like being on a treasure hunt for us fans.
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The problem is when you treat public forums like you're walking in the forest with your buddies, talking nonsense you think will never reach who you talk nonsense about (or someome close to them). Suddenly, someone with actual first hand experience enters the chat and if you used big words on just guessing, you will often look (and feel?) like an idiot.
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The problem is when you treat public forums like you're walking in the forest with your buddies, talking nonsense you think will never reach who you talk nonsense about (or someome close to them). Suddenly, someone with actual first hand experience enters the chat and if you used big words on just guessing, you will often look (and feel?) like an idiot.
Ed is polite, very in-depth, extremely mindful, very funny and smart in his responses. He notices and understands everything, almost shockingly so. I noticed that the most "big words" and nonsense on this forum come from people being offended, usually in response to an even harsher attack or misunderstanding. If the discussion stays within polite borders and is properly carried out, surprise, surprise, nobody gets offended. It's not a miracle that I haven't seen a single negative comment about Ed or Ed's thoughts yet.
And who said this magical someone who enters the chat never talks nonsense, never uses big words, is never wrong, never misinterprets words, and is always right? Ed in a 2012 interview said something along the lines that The Rolling Stones will stop playing live in the next 10 years. Was he wrong? Technically, maybe, but he meant a completely different thing. Another ball game is when you (not you personally) think that everything that anyone besides you thinks is nonsense and guesses by default.
What you mean by "big words" is a big question as well. I said "Having a pizza delivery guy in your lineup" and for some reason, I was accused of offending Alan. I wasn't talking about Alan at all, I meant that a lot of acts/companies/people in general use the fact of having sometimes not crucial part of something bigger on hand as an exaggerated advantage. Do I say it about Alan precisely? No, I never meant that. People get to their conclusions themselves. A lot of lessons to learn here.
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That was an entertaining read. Ed clearly has balls (or at least he likes to mention them).
My all-time favorite posts on the matter, however, remain the ones called "Let's See You" and "Terminal of Tribute to". I'm hoping for more of those!
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"Skid Marks" ;D
This is truly amazing. Thanks again, Ed, for taking the time. (And thanks so much to Chris and Julio.) And as for audio book: I'd buy it even if the voice belonged to someone with a heavy Indian accent, released on Betamax and had to be ordered from North Korea. Though a printed version will do just fine :-*
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The problem is when you treat public forums like you're walking in the forest with your buddies, talking nonsense you think will never reach who you talk nonsense about (or someome close to them). Suddenly, someone with actual first hand experience enters the chat and if you used big words on just guessing, you will often look (and feel?) like an idiot.
Ed is polite, very in-depth, extremely mindful, very funny and smart in his responses. He notices and understands everything, almost shockingly so. I noticed that the most "big words" and nonsense on this forum come from people being offended, usually in response to an even harsher attack or misunderstanding. If the discussion stays within polite borders and is properly carried out, surprise, surprise, nobody gets offended. It's not a miracle that I haven't seen a single negative comment about Ed or Ed's thoughts yet.
And who said this magical someone who enters the chat never talks nonsense, never uses big words, is never wrong, never misinterprets words, and is always right? Ed in a 2012 interview said something along the lines that The Rolling Stones will stop playing live in the next 10 years. Was he wrong? Technically, maybe, but he meant a completely different thing. Another ball game is when you (not you personally) think that everything that anyone besides you thinks is nonsense and guesses by default.
What you mean by "big words" is a big question as well. I said "Having a pizza delivery guy in your lineup" and for some reason, I was accused of offending Alan. I wasn't talking about Alan at all, I meant that a lot of acts/companies/people in general use the fact of having sometimes not crucial part of something bigger on hand as an exaggerated advantage. Do I say it about Alan precisely? No, I never meant that. People get to their conclusions themselves. A lot of lessons to learn here.
It's more in the sense of downplaying people's contribution in DS, making "bold" (as in ridiculous) statements about people's carreer choices, accusing them of things without solid evidence and so on. We don't know who will read and interact with this chat/forum. Like, there were people who obviously never thought Chris W would enter this forum when they commented on his contribution the OES tour. Critiquing someone who is not here will always be something else than doing the same to someone who is around to defend themselves and to actually read what someone writes. And then it's really easy to look like a fool when the big words come back at the author.
I think the biggest lesson is to be precise, so people won't have to guess what you actually mean.
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The problem is when you treat public forums like you're walking in the forest with your buddies, talking nonsense you think will never reach who you talk nonsense about (or someome close to them). Suddenly, someone with actual first hand experience enters the chat and if you used big words on just guessing, you will often look (and feel?) like an idiot.
Ed is polite, very in-depth, extremely mindful, very funny and smart in his responses. He notices and understands everything, almost shockingly so. I noticed that the most "big words" and nonsense on this forum come from people being offended, usually in response to an even harsher attack or misunderstanding. If the discussion stays within polite borders and is properly carried out, surprise, surprise, nobody gets offended. It's not a miracle that I haven't seen a single negative comment about Ed or Ed's thoughts yet.
And who said this magical someone who enters the chat never talks nonsense, never uses big words, is never wrong, never misinterprets words, and is always right? Ed in a 2012 interview said something along the lines that The Rolling Stones will stop playing live in the next 10 years. Was he wrong? Technically, maybe, but he meant a completely different thing. Another ball game is when you (not you personally) think that everything that anyone besides you thinks is nonsense and guesses by default.
What you mean by "big words" is a big question as well. I said "Having a pizza delivery guy in your lineup" and for some reason, I was accused of offending Alan. I wasn't talking about Alan at all, I meant that a lot of acts/companies/people in general use the fact of having sometimes not crucial part of something bigger on hand as an exaggerated advantage. Do I say it about Alan precisely? No, I never meant that. People get to their conclusions themselves. A lot of lessons to learn here.
It's more in the sense of downplaying people's contribution in DS, making "bold" (as in ridiculous) statements about people's carreer choices, accusing them of things without solid evidence and so on. We don't know who will read and interact with this chat/forum. Like, there were people who obviously never thought Chris W would enter this forum when they commented on his contribution the OES tour. Critiquing someone who is not here will always be something else than doing the same to someone who is around to defend themselves and to actually read what someone writes. And then it's really easy to look like a fool when the big words come back at the author.
I think the biggest lesson is to be precise, so people won't have to guess what you actually mean.
That's very well articulated, Knut. I can say for myself I feel really bad discussing someone behind their backs, that's awful. I literally feel physical pain, and honestly, I should probably stay away from social media and discussions as I'm extremely, desperately inclined to fight for truth all the time even in 1-1 discussions, and as you can witness here, can do it forever, often using exaggeration, proof by contradiction and other logic tricks to get somewhere. And when I clash with people who take it too seriously, it turns into a nuclear explosion and a negative loop.
I just love Mark's music, the history around it and truth, and like everybody else, that's why I'm here. It's a good place, and I'm happy that even such important people as you-all-know-who-by-now chimed in and spoke, that's awesome. Getting to the truth without people in question is impossible anyway, and if anybody else drops by to clear misconceptions or say that I'm an a-hole, that would make us all happy.
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"I just love Mark's music"
Like all of us. But not everyone has the ease and lightness in writing as you do. I think of myself :(
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Heads up, there’s a really good feature on Scott Walker’s Climate of Hunter album in the current issue of Mojo with some great contributions from Ed.
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Chris Whitten sends me the following message:
Ed wanted me to forward these podcast links to you. You can post them on the forum I think:
iHeart: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-the-bob-lefsetz-podcast-30806836/episode/ed-bicknell-181077899/?cmp=web_share&embed=true
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ed-bicknell/id1316200737?i=1000657274743
Spotify: https://spotify.link/qwZ2vE7z1Jb
Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/9ff4fb19-54d4-41ae-ae7a-8a6f8d3dafa8/episodes/8cd3cdf9-6826-4e69-ac53-a807ce7ef17e/the-bob-lefsetz-podcast-ed-bicknell
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Yes it was that podcast that started this thread off.
Great ep and there are some other good eps as well. The Linda Rondsadt one was funny, seems she does not give one single fuck, lols.
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Chris Whitten sends me the following message:
Ed wanted me to forward these podcast links to you. You can post them on the forum I think:
iHeart: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-the-bob-lefsetz-podcast-30806836/episode/ed-bicknell-181077899/?cmp=web_share&embed=true
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ed-bicknell/id1316200737?i=1000657274743
Spotify: https://spotify.link/qwZ2vE7z1Jb
Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/9ff4fb19-54d4-41ae-ae7a-8a6f8d3dafa8/episodes/8cd3cdf9-6826-4e69-ac53-a807ce7ef17e/the-bob-lefsetz-podcast-ed-bicknell
Thank you! I'm only 1/3 in, but I'm ASTOUNDED by Ed's memory. The names, the places, figures ... Unbelievable. Lots of interesting nuggets.
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Chris Whitten sends me the following message:
Ed wanted me to forward these podcast links to you. You can post them on the forum I think:
iHeart: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-the-bob-lefsetz-podcast-30806836/episode/ed-bicknell-181077899/?cmp=web_share&embed=true
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ed-bicknell/id1316200737?i=1000657274743
Spotify: https://spotify.link/qwZ2vE7z1Jb
Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/9ff4fb19-54d4-41ae-ae7a-8a6f8d3dafa8/episodes/8cd3cdf9-6826-4e69-ac53-a807ce7ef17e/the-bob-lefsetz-podcast-ed-bicknell
Thank you! I'm only 1/3 in, but I'm ASTOUNDED by Ed's memory. The names, the places, figures ... Unbelievable. Lots of interesting nuggets.
This is pure gold!
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Yes it was that podcast that started this thread off.
Great ep and there are some other good eps as well. The Linda Rondsadt one was funny, seems she does not give one single fuck, lols.
Spotify says it's from 30th May...
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Yes it was that podcast that started this thread off.
Great ep and there are some other good eps as well. The Linda Rondsadt one was funny, seems she does not give one single fuck, lols.
Spotify says it's from 30th May...
Ah OK, seems to be a new, second interview then, great news!
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Yes, it's a new interview, over 3 hours long and so informative and funny at the same time that I think I'll listen to it several more times. Towards the end, the depressive mood of the last tour becomes really tangible (Paul Frankling and sleeping pills, Mark Knopfler's assessment of the last record ...) - I was moved.
At the same time, Ed Bicknell's humour keeps flashing through: I often had to laugh out loud (ZZ Top, Bobby Womack ...)
Fantastic!
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Listening now, essential listening for all DS fans!
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Dear Ed, if you are reading this, come on, this deserves a book !
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Dear Ed, if you are reading this, come on, this deserves a book !
Ed, I know you sometimes check in on our inane ramblings, if you are reading this, thank you so much.
Running out of superlatives to throw Ed’s way. I already said that he made (through jbaent) the best ever post on this forum.
Now this might be the best podcast episode I ever listened to.
SO much in there for DS fans.
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PS Ed, I’m sorry you have to pick up the tab constantly, if we ever meet I’ll buy you a cup of tea. :)
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ha, the guy sure knows how to tell a story!!
I completely understand the succes with him as the manager (apart from the great music of course ;-)
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This is a really good interview, thanks for sharing and thanks Ed (and all involved) for getting it to us.
Haven't finished all of it yet but have done parts and some really interesting bits:
- 2hr 50. A completely different angle on the inception of the OES album and not as told by MK or John. Sounds like someone, not named but possibly Alan, was going to leave the group so MK initiated bringing the group back together for the album
- Really warm words about when Terry joined the group, like this bit a lot
- OES and the wind up of management duties for MK really quite sad in places
Interviewer has a good way of keeping the conversation on the rails, could listen to Ed all day. Wonderful stuff, would urge all DS fanatics to listen to.
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He said it was a member of staff in Damage that was leaving, not Alan.
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He said it was a member of staff in Damage that was leaving, not Alan.
Yeh I think you are right, not a musician, have listened again
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He said earlier that Alan had to give up the Clapton gig to come back to DS.
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Incredible interview, all the rumours about David, OES era and MK’s split with Ed seem to have been quite accurate. Stuff like MK’s amazement with Elton and Rod being happy to go on TV and talk about personal stuff are gold. Then MK saying he wrote a shit DS album (I won’t spoil that gem for those who haven’t listened). Theirs loads and loads of stuff that any DS fan will find fascinating. Ed really needs to write a book. What a story he has got to tell. It won’t just be for DS fans as his time in the music business would be pure gold to read. Especially with his sense of humour.
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starting now. shit, a work meeting has started...what to do now...?
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starting now. shit, a work meeting has started...what to do now...?
Resign?
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I completely missed this
"Then MK saying he wrote a shit DS album"
Can anyone share the timestamp?
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starting now. shit, a work meeting has started...what to do now...?
Play the interview for your work colleagues
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starting now. shit, a work meeting has started...what to do now...?
Resign?
done
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Highly entertaining and insightful interview, but two things I still don't quite understand:
1. Ed paints the One Every Street tour as a complete disaster in terms of human interactions. Isn't it strange that watching the concerts (one of them, Basel, in person, front row), I never got that impression at all? The playing was absolutely outstanding, and they often clearly did have fun. There was no lack of emotional moments (in a positive way) - just think of Mark playing You and Your Friend. Also, he did seem to show a lot of respect for the band, watching Danny/Chris during Calling Elvis, for instance, or having these wonderful interactions with Paul Franklin. If they really had such an awful time, who was struggling with whom? If Paul Franklin had to take sleeping pills to avoid everyone, why then was his playing so inspired? Why did Mark play so absolutely brilliantly, at the very top of his game, if he couldn't care less about the new songs and everything was just awful? I don't doubt that there were tense moments, but to say that the whole experience was just one huge disappointment is not what I see and hear when I watch and listen to One Every Street, the album, and the tour.
2. I still don't know why Ed was fired or ready to quit, as he puts it. "Strangest meeting ever", "Mark said something very upsetting" -- why and what, Ed? The only hints I have come from the song Let's See You, but that doesn't tell me much more, either. "Tonight we pushed the border just a little too far for comfort" -- understood, that's what I gather from listening to Ed. But how exactly? Ed says that the whole situation with Mark (until today) is just strange; he makes it sound almost inexplicable. But I have this feeling that he knows exactly why they broke up and no longer "drink". Also, I have a hard time believing that Mark just wrote to Ed from the tour with Dylan completely out of the blue. Ed's memory is amazing, but I also get the impression that he remembers (or tells) exactly what he wants to.
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1. Ed paints the One Every Street tour as a complete disaster in terms of human interactions. Isn't it strange that watching the concerts (one of them, Basel, in person, front row), I never got that impression at all? The playing was absolutely outstanding, and they often clearly did have fun. There was no lack of emotional moments (in a positive way) - just think of Mark playing You and Your Friend. Also, he did seem to show a lot of respect for the band, watching Danny/Chris during Calling Elvis, for instance, or having these wonderful interactions with Paul Franklin. If they really had such an awful time, who was struggling with whom? If Paul Franklin had to take sleeping pills to avoid everyone, why then was his playing so inspired? Why did Mark play so absolutely brilliantly, at the very top of his game, if he couldn't care less about the new songs and everything was just awful? I don't doubt that there were tense moments, but to say that the whole experience was just one huge disappointment is not what I see and hear when I watch and listen to One Every Street, the album, and the tour.
it's a job, and professionnal musicians can force to have a nice behaviour during 2 hours a day, especially if they know they are filmed ! it's like acting...
and to be honest, on many videos of the tour, I find Mark tired and bored to death
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and to be honest, on many videos of the tour, I find Mark tired and bored to death
Isn't that just Mark being Mark? I don't think someone can play THAT well when being tired and bored. Not even Mark. Just imagine what level of concentration such a show requires. Calling Elvis is not Broken Bones!
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1. Ed paints the One Every Street tour as a complete disaster in terms of human interactions. Isn't it strange that watching the concerts (one of them, Basel, in person, front row), I never got that impression at all? The playing was absolutely outstanding, and they often clearly did have fun. There was no lack of emotional moments (in a positive way) - just think of Mark playing You and Your Friend. Also, he did seem to show a lot of respect for the band, watching Danny/Chris during Calling Elvis, for instance, or having these wonderful interactions with Paul Franklin. If they really had such an awful time, who was struggling with whom? If Paul Franklin had to take sleeping pills to avoid everyone, why then was his playing so inspired? Why did Mark play so absolutely brilliantly, at the very top of his game, if he couldn't care less about the new songs and everything was just awful? I don't doubt that there were tense moments, but to say that the whole experience was just one huge disappointment is not what I see and hear when I watch and listen to One Every Street, the album, and the tour.
it's a job, and professionnal musicians can force to have a nice behaviour during 2 hours a day, especially if they know they are filmed ! it's like acting...
and to be honest, on many videos of the tour, I find Mark tired and bored to death
Agreed.
PS I always thought it was "tonight we pushed the boat out" but can't be bothered to check :)
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Incredible interview.
Bad part about being it so long and having so little time to listen to this is I had to listening it while working so I got lost many times as, no matter how well I think I understand English, I have to pay special attention and sometimes I lost that attention so I'm under the impression I lost many things.
Ed, come on, hire someone to write your memories, and told that person eveything so it can be translated to a book!
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Re OES tour, I think that it shows how professional and capable a band that they were at that time that they were able to carry on and proceed to deliver a quality performance. But if you listen to recordings those earlier in the tour have more 'vibes' and energy, like Munich 1991 compared with the later 1992 shows which just feel like delivery of a well rehearsed performance to me. Poles apart from BIA tour which actually was not as polished musically in places (think BIA...) however just sounded warmer and full of good energy. All to my ears of course.
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Wolverhampton 1996 : pure energy and a wild crowd ! Vaison 96 for a soundboard though, this is top
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Highly entertaining and insightful interview, but two things I still don't quite understand:
1. Ed paints the One Every Street tour as a complete disaster in terms of human interactions. Isn't it strange that watching the concerts (one of them, Basel, in person, front row), I never got that impression at all? The playing was absolutely outstanding, and they often clearly did have fun. There was no lack of emotional moments (in a positive way) - just think of Mark playing You and Your Friend. Also, he did seem to show a lot of respect for the band, watching Danny/Chris during Calling Elvis, for instance, or having these wonderful interactions with Paul Franklin. If they really had such an awful time, who was struggling with whom? If Paul Franklin had to take sleeping pills to avoid everyone, why then was his playing so inspired? Why did Mark play so absolutely brilliantly, at the very top of his game, if he couldn't care less about the new songs and everything was just awful? I don't doubt that there were tense moments, but to say that the whole experience was just one huge disappointment is not what I see and hear when I watch and listen to One Every Street, the album, and the tour.
I get exactly the opposite feeling. OES shows feel dark, heavy, robotic and everyone looks tired, bored and angry.
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Re OES tour, I think that it shows how professional and capable a band that they were at that time that they were able to carry on and proceed to deliver a quality performance. But if you listen to recordings those earlier in the tour have more 'vibes' and energy, like Munich 1991 compared with the later 1992 shows which just feel like delivery of a well rehearsed performance to me. Poles apart from BIA tour which actually was not as polished musically in places (think BIA...) however just sounded warmer and full of good energy. All to my ears of course.
Interesting take. To me, the Brothers in Arms tour -- as great as the performances obviously were -- had a very "80s" sound (not surprising) which already felt awkward to me when I first heard it as a teenager in the early 90s. Whereas the 1991/1992 sound was a big step away from that -- not in the direction of what was to come in the 90s (Grunge, Britpop etc.), but uniquely well-rounded, full, polished and, yes, warm. It had a lot to do with the pedal steel and Mark's Pensa, I guess. In terms of sound, my favourite Dire Straits tours are the very first one and the very last one.
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I agree, but have to see my introduction to DS was On The Night, so I'll always have a soft spot for that record.
The pedal steel and indeed the pensa makes it sound pretty unique, and more coherent to me than de BIA tour. Although I can feel the more 'joyous' vibe of that it also feels a bit more sloppy.
And the first 70's tours are phenomenal anyway, the first 2 records are my fav DS's.
Re OES tour, I think that it shows how professional and capable a band that they were at that time that they were able to carry on and proceed to deliver a quality performance. But if you listen to recordings those earlier in the tour have more 'vibes' and energy, like Munich 1991 compared with the later 1992 shows which just feel like delivery of a well rehearsed performance to me. Poles apart from BIA tour which actually was not as polished musically in places (think BIA...) however just sounded warmer and full of good energy. All to my ears of course.
Interesting take. To me, the Brothers in Arms tour -- as great as the performances obviously were -- had a very "80s" sound (not surprising) which already felt awkward to me when I first heard it as a teenager in the early 90s. Whereas the 1991/1992 sound was a big step away from that -- not in the direction of what was to come in the 90s (Grunge, Britpop etc.), but uniquely well-rounded, full, polished and, yes, warm. It had a lot to do with the pedal steel and Mark's Pensa, I guess. In terms of sound, my favourite Dire Straits tours are the very first one and the very last one.
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This are the 1991/1992 vibes that I'm referring to when I say it can't have been quite as gloomy as Ed makes it sound.
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This are the 1991/1992 vibes that I'm referring to when I say it can't have been quite as gloomy as Ed makes it sound.
There's a saying that the musicians play for free and get paid for all the travelling etc in between and I think this applies here.
Relatively easy to get up and do your favourite thing, ie play music, even if you are playing the same song in the same way for the 110th time.
The rest of the touring lifestyle, not so much.
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This are the 1991/1992 vibes that I'm referring to when I say it can't have been quite as gloomy as Ed makes it sound.
There's a saying that the musicians play for free and get paid for all the travelling etc in between and I think this applies here.
Relatively easy to get up and do your favourite thing, ie play music, even if you are playing the same song in the same way for the 110th time.
The rest of the touring lifestyle, not so much.
yes exactly. and the gig is only 2hours in the day
it remains 22h per day for travelling, hotels, restaurants, taxis, etc... not so fun moments but forced to be with your "collegues"
at the end of the 2 years tour, it's normal that Ed recalls more of this moments than the shows
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This are the 1991/1992 vibes that I'm referring to when I say it can't have been quite as gloomy as Ed makes it sound.
only few snapshots of a 2 hours gig.
When you're looking at the basel or Nimes video in a row... well you can't see Mark smilling all the time :lol
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The only person who has been even vaguely positive about the OES tour was John and even then it felt like he kind of skipped over it in his book.
Everyone else who has spoken about it has talked of the friction, going all the way back to that Vox magazine article that was published while the tour was still ongoing.
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Now I'm getting curious; what article's that?
The only person who has been even vaguely positive about the OES tour was John and even then it felt like he kind of skipped over it in his book.
Everyone else who has spoken about it has talked of the friction, going all the way back to that Vox magazine article that was published while the tour was still ongoing.
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Now I'm getting curious; what article's that?
The only person who has been even vaguely positive about the OES tour was John and even then it felt like he kind of skipped over it in his book.
Everyone else who has spoken about it has talked of the friction, going all the way back to that Vox magazine article that was published while the tour was still ongoing.
I put scans on here a few months back, just do a search.
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Incredible interview.
Bad part about being it so long and having so little time to listen to this is I had to listening it while working so I got lost many times as, no matter how well I think I understand English, I have to pay special attention and sometimes I lost that attention so I'm under the impression I lost many things.
Ed, come on, hire something to write your memories, and told that person eveything so it can be translated to a book!
If only this interview could be read it would be easier for me.
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If only this interview could be read it would be easier for me.
Maybe you could use some software to get a rough transcript? Something like turboscribe.ai ?
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If only this interview could be read it would be easier for me.
Maybe you could use some software to get a rough transcript? Something like turboscribe.ai ?
Was going to say, should be straightforward to rip the audio and getting AI to transcribe?
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When you're looking at the basel or Nimes video in a row... well you can't see Mark smilling all the time :lol
That's true. But it has been true for the other 600'000 hours of his life, too.
I was in the front row at that Basel concert, and remember thinking how awfully cool Mark was. You can't be cool AND smile all the time.
But yes, it will have been the touring (not the playing) that wore them out. It would be so much easier today – everyone would just stare at their phones constantly, no need to interact. Downside: Paul Franklin would need even more sleeping pills, because digital light is bad for your sleep.
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"I was in the front row at that Basel concert, and remembering thinking how awfully cool Mark was. You can't be cool AND smile all the time"
Wow! You're lucky :) I was also sitting in the front row, but in front of the TV:) A very important Sunday.
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and to be honest, on many videos of the tour, I find Mark tired and bored to death
Isn't that just Mark being Mark? I don't think someone can play THAT well when being tired and bored. Not even Mark. Just imagine what level of concentration such a show requires. Calling Elvis is not Broken Bones!
Calling Elvis live for 199x MK was like Smoke On The Water for any intermediate guitarist, total autopilot mode and zero risks at all.
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and to be honest, on many videos of the tour, I find Mark tired and bored to death
Isn't that just Mark being Mark? I don't think someone can play THAT well when being tired and bored. Not even Mark. Just imagine what level of concentration such a show requires. Calling Elvis is not Broken Bones!
Calling Elvis live for 199x MK was like Smoke On The Water for any intermediate guitarist, total autopilot mode and zero risks at all.
Listen closely. The solos in the (looooong) middle sections are different every time. Actually, I can't remember Mark improvising nearly that much on most other songs. It's just the "signature" bits that stay the same. Musically, he was out of this world on that tour.
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stratmad
"Maybe you could use some software to get a rough transcript? Something like turboscribe.ai ?
dustyvalentino
"Was going to say, should be straightforward to rip the audio and getting AI to transcribe?
Yes it's a good idea. Thanks :)
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and to be honest, on many videos of the tour, I find Mark tired and bored to death
Isn't that just Mark being Mark? I don't think someone can play THAT well when being tired and bored. Not even Mark. Just imagine what level of concentration such a show requires. Calling Elvis is not Broken Bones!
Calling Elvis live for 199x MK was like Smoke On The Water for any intermediate guitarist, total autopilot mode and zero risks at all.
Listen closely. The solos in the (looooong) middle sections are different every time. Actually, I can't remember Mark improvising nearly that much on most other songs. It's just the "signature" bits that stay the same. Musically, he was out of this world on that tour.
Can't really agree :) IMO 80% of the solo consists of these 4 or 5 long phrases he plays in pretty much every single version, and harmonically speaking Calling Elvis allows to pretty much shove any B dorian / Bm Pentatonic / B maj lick without lots of risks of messing it up - the complete oposite of PONO for example , where he quite frequently put blops -
"Musically, he was out of this world on that tour."
I do agree on this tho, it would be interesting to have a thread / poll to discuss what was peak MK in terms of guitar playing :)
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I do agree on this tho, it would be interesting to have a thread / poll to discuss what was peak MK in terms of guitar playing :)
I’d say technically 91-96, but most passioned/interesting in 82-83
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I do agree on this tho, it would be interesting to have a thread / poll to discuss what was peak MK in terms of guitar playing :)
I’d say technically 91-96, but most passioned/interesting in 82-83
+1000 :thumbsup
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I'd also say '92 is ultimate peak. The precision, phrasing, speed even feel of his playing is unrivaled there, IMHO.
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Alchemy era for me.
By 92 he was using distortion on the Pensa and it's easier to play faster under those circumstances. The clean picking on Alchemy is much more impressive to me.
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Totally agree, the peak with his own bands was in the 90s, including the NHB gigs.
But for me, his best work as a guitarist only is in the late 80s, the tour with Clapton. Maybe it's because he didn't have to sing and was able to focus just on the guitar. They were all top-rate musicians on that stage, one top-class guitarist (Eric), and then there was this alien robot playing the "second" guitar - it's like something from a different galaxy! And most of the time you get the impression that he's playing with the brakes on, so that poor old Eric can keep up with him! :lol
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Alchemy era for me.
By 92 he was using distortion on the Pensa and it's easier to play faster under those circumstances. The clean picking on Alchemy is much more impressive to me.
That's right. The Strats and Schecters are much harder to play. And the solos on Alchemy, especially, are somehow tighter, more constructed. I don't know how much of it was actually improvised, but it comes across like it's just one giant, mapped-out symphony, no fillers or rough edges.
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I do agree on this tho, it would be interesting to have a thread / poll to discuss what was peak MK in terms of guitar playing :)
I’d say technically 91-96, but most passioned/interesting in 82-83
It's hard to say. But he should receive a special mention for Sultans Of Swing in aLCHEMY.
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Totally agree, the peak with his own bands was in the 90s, including the NHB gigs.
But for me, his best work as a guitarist only is in the late 80s, the tour with Clapton. Maybe it's because he didn't have to sing and was able to focus just on the guitar. They were all top-rate musicians on that stage, one top-class guitarist (Eric), and then there was this alien robot playing the "second" guitar - it's like something from a different galaxy! And most of the time you get the impression that he's playing with the brakes on, so that poor old Eric can keep up with him! :lol
In my opinion, MK's late 80's playing were the worst.
That 88/89 tour with Clapton, i felt that MK was smashed by Eric.
Well, its not a competition. Really.
Mark's tone dureing these years were the worse ever, same as his playing.
Clapton was on fire, giant tone, great playing.
Mark had his kind of brilliance playing on Can't Find My Way Home, Holy Mother and more one or two countrish style songs.
People often talk how great MK was soloing on Badge.
I think just the opposite.
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Alchemy era for me.
By 92 he was using distortion on the Pensa and it's easier to play faster under those circumstances. The clean picking on Alchemy is much more impressive to me.
That's right. The Strats and Schecters are much harder to play. And the solos on Alchemy, especially, are somehow tighter, more constructed. I don't know how much of it was actually improvised, but it comes across like it's just one giant, mapped-out symphony, no fillers or rough edges.
I think that Sultans of Swing solos of BiA tour run circles around Alchemy ones. OES tour sultans are rather bland IMO - though ofc he was playing super clean back then -
If you ask me peak MK is 1996, sure not as flashy as 91 but his lick vocabulary and sensibility playing was of charts. Indeed I would say that SoS and TR solos from GH tour are much more elaborate and interesting than these of the OES. But perhaps it's also a matter of state of mind / burnout.
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Totally agree, the peak with his own bands was in the 90s, including the NHB gigs.
But for me, his best work as a guitarist only is in the late 80s, the tour with Clapton. Maybe it's because he didn't have to sing and was able to focus just on the guitar. They were all top-rate musicians on that stage, one top-class guitarist (Eric), and then there was this alien robot playing the "second" guitar - it's like something from a different galaxy! And most of the time you get the impression that he's playing with the brakes on, so that poor old Eric can keep up with him! :lol
In my opinion, MK's late 80's playing were the worst.
That 88/89 tour with Clapton, i felt that MK was smashed by Eric.
Well, its not a competition. Really.
Mark's tone dureing these years were the worse ever, same as his playing.
Clapton was on fire, giant tone, great playing.
Mark had his kind of brilliance playing on Can't Find My Way Home, Holy Mother and more one or two countrish style songs.
People often talk how great MK was soloing on Badge.
I think just the opposite.
fully agree. Mark plays minor pentatonic on Badge, while than Eric plays major myxlodian.
Eric is right (of course it's his own tune, he knows what to play !) Mark is wrong here, he doesnt play the right mode, and his solo doesn't fit the song flavour imho
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Alchemy era for me.
By 92 he was using distortion on the Pensa and it's easier to play faster under those circumstances. The clean picking on Alchemy is much more impressive to me.
fully agree :thumbsup
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Totally agree, the peak with his own bands was in the 90s, including the NHB gigs.
But for me, his best work as a guitarist only is in the late 80s, the tour with Clapton. Maybe it's because he didn't have to sing and was able to focus just on the guitar. They were all top-rate musicians on that stage, one top-class guitarist (Eric), and then there was this alien robot playing the "second" guitar - it's like something from a different galaxy! And most of the time you get the impression that he's playing with the brakes on, so that poor old Eric can keep up with him! :lol
In my opinion, MK's late 80's playing were the worst.
That 88/89 tour with Clapton, i felt that MK was smashed by Eric.
Well, its not a competition. Really.
Mark's tone dureing these years were the worse ever, same as his playing.
Clapton was on fire, giant tone, great playing.
Mark had his kind of brilliance playing on Can't Find My Way Home, Holy Mother and more one or two countrish style songs.
People often talk how great MK was soloing on Badge.
I think just the opposite.
"Top-class guitarist"; "smashed by Eric". You're kidding, right? Eric Clapton is a severely overrated guitar player. Plain boring playing, lots of (blues) cliches, mediocre songwriting. MK was and is lightyears ahead of this mediocre player. But because someone once wrote that EC is god, you're not allowed to critcise him, right?
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Speaking of the 96 tour, I always assumed that the reason that it was in small theatres was due to a decision by MK to scale things back.
Turns out it was because Ed was scared after booking venues that were too big in 96.
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"Top-class guitarist"; "smashed by Eric". You're kidding, right? Eric Clapton is a severely overrated guitar player. Plain boring playing, lots of (blues) cliches, mediocre songwriting. MK was and is lightyears ahead of this mediocre player. But because someone once wrote that EC is god, you're not allowed to critcise him, right?
Clapton has certainly been overrated for many years, and he didn't like that Clapton-is-god nonsense eiher. But he is better than a lot of others, and he's written a few songs that are just very, very good ;-)
As a guitarist, MK is simply on a different level, a level that most "ordinary" blues/rock guitarists will never reach. It's not just the tone and the technical control of the instrument, but the vast musical knowledge, about harmonies and different playing styles that sets him apart from most guitarists.
In those shows, he was trying to be a member of the band, to bring out the best in Clapton, so he stayed in the background a lot.
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Speaking of the 96 tour, I always assumed that the reason that it was in small theatres was due to a decision by MK to scale things back.
Turns out it was because Ed was scared after booking venues that were too big in 96.
Huh? The shows that I went to in 96 were pretty much sold out, as far I can remember.
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At least in Germany smaller venues but several dates (Hamburg 5000x2, Munich 5000x3). Good choice from my point of view. Much better than all those hangar arenas later.
LE
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At least in Germany smaller venues but several dates (Hamburg 5000x2, Munich 5000x3). Good choice from my point of view. Much better than all those hangar arenas later.
LE
Oh yes, some beautiful places, like the old opera house in Frankfurt. It's a bit like the Albert Hall, well almost ;-)
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Sorry, typo, Ed said he booked venues that were too big in 92, hence the small venues in 96. :)
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Sorry, typo, Ed said he booked venues that were too big in 92, hence the small venues in 96. :)
Okay. Did they actually have problems selling out venues in 92? I remember the places were pretty much packed, they even played small stadiums. Or was it because Mark wanted to play in smaller places?
The funny thing is that from 2001 on, he went back to the same venues that were "too big" in 92.
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Sorry, typo, Ed said he booked venues that were too big in 92, hence the small venues in 96. :)
Okay. Did they actually have problems selling out venues in 92? I remember the places were pretty much packed, they even played small stadiums. Or was it because Mark wanted to play in smaller places?
The funny thing is that from 2001 on, he went back to the same venues that were "too big" in 92.
Yes this is covered in the interview where Ed speaks about the gigs in the interior of the US like Kansas where you "needed a hit". He comes across as a pretty dynamic bloke who was able to switch to smaller venues in this event, though the tour had to be rearranged twice due to the Gulf War which didn't help matters.
Also interesting observation from Ed that the 6 year hiatus was too long and music had moved on significantly in that time. Also that there were hangers on in Nashville in that interval. I often wonder what an album of DS wwould have been like immediately after the Mandela gig or around that time... pretty special probably.
And on one final gem from the interview, confirmation that "a ton" of songs were recorded for Love Over Gold intended originally to be a double album buy costs were prohibitive.
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Yes I think the album was ready in 1990. I also used to think about it. What sound would I have had with this album in 1989. But I think MK's “love affair” with Nashville, country music was inevitable.
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Sorry, typo, Ed said he booked venues that were too big in 92, hence the small venues in 96. :)
Okay. Did they actually have problems selling out venues in 92? I remember the places were pretty much packed, they even played small stadiums. Or was it because Mark wanted to play in smaller places?
The funny thing is that from 2001 on, he went back to the same venues that were "too big" in 92.
Listen to the interview, it’s all there. Europe was fine but there were issues in Australia and the US.
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Are we putting in doubt what Ed Bicknell and most of the people involved told about the oes tour, just because we are fans and they smiled and interacted on a stage for two hours every show?
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Are we putting in doubt what Ed Bicknell and most of the people involved told about the oes tour, just because we are fans and they smiled and interacted on a stage for two hours every show?
I don't think there's any reason to doubt it. I mean, why should Ed, John, Mark or anyone, 30 years later, tell the world a lot of nonsense about the tour? And, by and large, they're all saying the same thing, namely that it was all too much for everyone involved.
After all, there must have been a reason why Mark took six years to get the band back together, and why he decided to put an end to it after that tour.
I'm sure that there were also good bits, and they enjoyed being on stage and interacting with audiences, because that's what being a musician is about. And of course, they were/are all highly professional about it, which means you just keep going and do the job you're being paid for.
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"I'm sure that there were also good bits, and they enjoyed being on stage and interacting with audiences, because that's what being a musician is about"
Of course it is, but it is rarely mentioned.
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"I'm sure that there were also good bits, and they enjoyed being on stage and interacting with audiences, because that's what being a musician is about"
Of course it is, but it is rarely mentioned.
I find that surprising, too! It's only in recent times that Mark has suddenly started talking about how much he enjoyed DS and that he is proud of what they achieved.
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"I'm sure that there were also good bits, and they enjoyed being on stage and interacting with audiences, because that's what being a musician is about"
Of course it is, but it is rarely mentioned.
I find that surprising, too! It's only in recent times that Mark has suddenly started talking about how much he enjoyed DS and that he is proud of what they achieved.
Yes, I noticed that too.
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Just a reminder, this is what Chris had to say about the effect the tour had on him.
Excellent question.
I retired hurt after the tour. Hardly touched my drums for a few years. I was writing music for film & tv.
The most positive thing was my ongoing friendship with Chris White, who got me through the tour actually. Secondly the money I made and saved allowed me to only work on projects I wanted to work on from thereon.
Bandwise, I guess it taught me a new level of attention to detail. It was like playing in an elite orchestra, not a rock band.
Through the experience I became very critical of myself and often others (musically), which has been more of a curse than a positive. I was confident and professional going in. Afterwards I started to second guess everything I played.
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Just a reminder, this is what Chris had to say about the effect the tour had on him.
Excellent question.
I retired hurt after the tour. Hardly touched my drums for a few years. I was writing music for film & tv.
The most positive thing was my ongoing friendship with Chris White, who got me through the tour actually. Secondly the money I made and saved allowed me to only work on projects I wanted to work on from thereon.
Bandwise, I guess it taught me a new level of attention to detail. It was like playing in an elite orchestra, not a rock band.
Through the experience I became very critical of myself and often others (musically), which has been more of a curse than a positive. I was confident and professional going in. Afterwards I started to second guess everything I played.
Thank you, Dusty, that's interesting.
So it wasn't only physically demanding and stressful, but also technically. Organising a nine-piece band is no easy feat, I imagine. The pressure must have been immense on everyone, band, crew and management.
What I'd like to know is: what did MK do differently with his solo band? They've been playing together now for almost 30 years, with few changes in the line-up (except for drummers, for some reason). Nobody ever appeared to be stressed or angry. What's the secret? Yoga? Tea?
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Shorter tours perhaps
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Shorter tours perhaps
That may be a factor, and fewer gigs per week.
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What I'd like to know is: what did MK do differently with his solo band? They've been playing together now for almost 30 years, with few changes in the line-up (except for drummers, for some reason). Nobody ever appeared to be stressed or angry. What's the secret? Yoga? Tea?
Chad Cromwell left for personal/family reasons. He also confirmed that there was no conflict with MK or the band. This makes Danny the only drummer who was replaced. Strictly speaking, he was a substitute for Chad, who may have stayed somewhat longer (though I loved him as a drummer, especially in 2010).
I think the main reason it works is that they are having fun while all being a bit older. I'm sure MK pays them very well, as confirmed by Ed that these guys aren't cheap, but they could very well make a living without MK, and that's an understatement I think. So, why would they stay in a band they don't like? Who wants to fight at that age, at that level? They must surely disagree every now and then, and everybody shall have his days off on a tour, but they have huge respect towards each other. MK also got a bit wiser over the years. I guess he's more tactful than during the DS days.
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Hello everyone, I HAVE A NEW MESSAGE BY ED!!!!
After the firsts posts from Ed, I dared to asked me throught Chris if I can ask him a few "get-a-lifer" questions and he said yes, so I'm gonna try to reproduce it here the best I can, as further than ask my questions he added things here and there, which I thanks Ed for doing it, and I posted him my questions with a little intro, he gave me all his answers straight but he thought it might be better to be posted as a question-answer thing, I'll do my best to put it here the whole thing.
My questions are in italic and his answers in bold, as it's what's really interesting.
His first answer is more like a continue from the last things he said in his previous posts and what we talked consequently, just to put it in perspective:
Hello Ed
I'd like to ask you about two period of time of the MK solo career, that are very interesting not only for me but also for most of the fans. I would start begging your pardon because the questions are going to be elaborated with long introductions, I hope your answers are long too, lol
I can confirm that John Illsley played bass on WOL ..I asked him just to check .
I also watched the Neil Jason interview.
I have NO recollection of meeting him but so much of what he said rang bells and he has zero motivation for making it up, that I’m mystified but not so much that I can spend any more time on it. I suppose there is a possibility that he DID play on the tracks he mentions but his stuff wasn’t used. I wasn’t there so that is speculation on my part.
So that it’s definitely John ( who also confirmed Neil did "One World" which I don't think is in dispute )
FIRST QUESTION:
The first period is of the very early years of MK solo career, and it comes from two sources:
- the first one is a tape that a friend of mine bought from a street seller that had some studio recordings of MK playing unreleased songs, one of them titled "No wonder he's confused" which remains unreleased, "Secondary waltz" that many many years after was released although in a very different version (the first one was quite rock and the released one was indeed a waltz), three instrumental tracks that appeared later in the Swan Hunter Documentary for British TV and some demos of songs that ended in Golden Heart. The band of the tracks was unknown further than listening to MK talking with the drummer and telling something like "What happened Bobby?", there was keyboards, a mandolin, a bass and guitar. The instrumentals were just guitar and synths, so we all thought it was Guy playing.
- the second source comes from a magazine from 1994, "Record Collector Magazine January 1994", in that magazine MK talks about playing with different bands those days, an Irish one, a Nashville one and a British one, and about that British one in one of his answers says:
"I wrote a song about shipbuilding in England and you have to do that with a British band”
In other answer he says:"I had a great time in Air Studios a couple of weeks back - with Nick Lowe on bass, Bobby Irwin on drums, Paul Carrack on keyboards, Don Orleano on bouzouki and mandolin, who's on the Irish sessions as well, and Kevin Brown on guitar, and Brian Masterson from Mill Studios in Dublin came over to do the stuff”
That shipbuilding song must be "My claim to fame" that talked about the Swan Hunter shipyard and appeared at that documentary (also in the Darling Pretty cd single) together with those three instrumental tracks on the tape mentioned before, so I guess the band who played in that song are the same musicians that MK mentions in the next answer. I think are the same than the two unreleased songs on that tape as MK says in the interview the drummer was Bobby Irwin, and in one of the songs MK talks to the drummer and says "Bobby". I also guess that the interviewer missunderstood the name of the bouzuki and mandolin player and it's not Don Orleano but Donald Lunny that indeed played also in the Irish sessions.
It was also said that this British band recorded more songs like "Batting for England" which remains unreleased and an early version of "Speedway TO Nazareth" (instead of Speedway at Nazareth).
The question is what do you remember about all these things, about that British band, everything they recorded, why the band songs were discarded for the Golden Heart record and nothing appeared (not even on bootlegs further than that tape with those two songs and the three instrumentals...), only one of those songs saw the light of day, "My claim to fame", as a bonus track in the "Darling pretty” cd single and years later appeared on a Studio Albums Box with the credits wrong as it says it was recorded by the Nashville musicians, and accordingly to that interview mentioned before, it was that British band who recorded it. These period of time seems very interesting as MK was having a band with such people like Nick Lowe and Paul Carrack, but apparently that band was quickly discarded by Mark. Do you remember more songs that they recorded than the one already mentioned? Everything you could tell us about this period would be great as further than that interview, we know nothing.
I started many years ago a thread with song titles that appeared on ASCAP and ISWC sites for that record: https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=6199.0
FIRST QUESTION. Ie the question before the SECOND QUESTION.
I do recall MK recording some songs at AIR, London as he says, which were never released but I don't remember the titles or how many.
My memory is that the tapes “ went missing ” ( as in “ stolen ” ) but we never found out by whom or recovered them.
“ Secondary Waltz”… MK has loads of school exercise books going back fuck knows how long full of lyrics and I was leafing through one in an idle moment ( no VIZ copies around ) and saw the lyric to that which I completely identified with since it perfectly described the dreaded school dance our generation were required to go to at Christmas time. .
I asked him what it was and he kind of dismissed it and I made some comment that he should record it and he said he couldn’t remember the tune ( so he wrote another one)!
I’m musing here on how a “street seller” would have got hold of that material …from the thief obviously.
I’ve never heard or even heard OF “ No wonder…” and IF I've heard the instrumentals it will only have been in the context of the SH doc which I’d completely forgotten about until now.
No idea which songs ended up on GH ( if any ).
His quotes re musos etc are correct ( obviously).
It’s DONAL Lunny…google him.
I've no reason to dispute anything you quote here or the events.
My memory….like any musician/writer I think Mark was just trying things out, experimenting with different instrumentations, different musos, and he’s always loved Celtic music ( as I do ) and WHEN you experiment stuff gets dumped, changed, sometimes morphs into something else.
So the live version of “ News “ developed into bits of “ Private Investigations ” and “ Love Over Gold " was originally going to be a double album until I pointed out it was a "good double" but a GREAT single album ( and no…before you ask…I can't remember what songs got left off OR if any were subsequently used ) and it ended up as you all know ( TR being my top top choice for top DS status along with BIA song ).
At that point M was very generous in asking my opinion and I’d usually give him two…what I thought of the songs artistically, and what I thought commercially , not always the same thing eg I thought “ Hand In Hand ” was a hit song but we never released so….
That’s in part what a good manager does ( or should ), and part of the job is sometimes to save the artist from themselves ie from putting out crap, but ultimately it's all subjective and down to personal taste ( I can’t stand ~"Ticket to Heaven'' for instance ..dreary, overlong, doesn’t go anywhere, but I lost that argument…...ha! ) .
I can’t remember us ever disagreeing until OES, nor with John.
I don’t know about “ Batting for England” ( good lyric ) or early “Speedway” …nope the little grey cells haven’t produced anything.
I didn't go to those sessions and I’m 99% I never heard any of it ( because the stuff was stolen which was pretty alarming at the time ).
Just to finish..that “band” was just some mates esp Nick and it's not a question of discarding. M is quite prolific as writers go and ALL writers self edit ( some not enough), so with hindsight I’d almost call those recordings up market demos and I don’t know if his intention was to release with that band, keep, try something else, add, subtract …..it all became academic when the tapes disappeared.
MCTF was def not recorded by the Nashville bunch and I have NO recollection of them or anyone else from Nashville being involved in this but I could be wrong esp if M made ref to it in an interview ( guess what, I didn’t read his interviews! )
Nor do I think anything additional to what you describe was recorded, if so I never heard anything.
I had a look at your thread.
I have a vague memory of Cold Turkey and only the title.
The others I’ve covered.
I think you are looking for material that doesn’t exist and if I’ve confused you even more, apologies.
SECOND QUESTION:
This question is about the STP sessions years, between 1997 and 2000 probably that ended with the record "Sailing to Philadelphia", as far as we know because Terry Kilburn was publishing news on his site MKNEWS about it, a number of 29 songs were recorded during that sessions, 25 to be considered for his record, and the rest maybe covered by other artists (if you remember anything about this, it would be so great)
I did two threads years ago about it:
Chronology: https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=8319.0
Songs that appeared on ASCAP and ISWC: https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=6200.0
Another thread about all those songs: https://www.amarkintime.org/forum/index.php?topic=7214.0
The question about it is more related about all the length of time of the sessions and the number of songs recorded, and about the songs that remains unreleased from that sessions, if you remember any of those songs, how they were, how sounded, if any appeared later on other MK records that you remember, anything you remember about those years and all those songs. This period is also very interesting for us as it ended with you leaving your role as MK manager. There is an old story that I don't know from where it came about you and MK arguing in the street, with MK in a motorbike still with his helmet on that ended with you telling him you didn't want to be his manager anymore. Probably it's not a true story but as long as we don't know about the reality, that's the story we have, We also heard that apparently you thought that "Golden Heart" was just MK trying how it would be playing solo, but you thought he would like to go back to Dire Straits after that, and realising MK wanted to keep his solo career with a different approach that the band style was also a reason. Again, rumours that I don't know where they come but are in circulation among fans for years and years.
SECOND QUESTION ie being the one after the FIRST but before the THIRD.
Before I get to STP ……a word about movie soundtracks.
I know it’s translation but M didn’t “refuse” to write for certain films, let's just say he “passed” or I did on his behalf because of conflicting schedules.
By this point scripts were literally raining down on us, maybe 30-40 a year, mostly mind boggling CRAP, so the ones he did do combined interest and availability nothing more, ( and I didn't always agree with his choices eg Last Exit, Metroland, Wag the Dog, Shot at Glory all of which failed utterly ( most were rubbish films in my opinion ) especially since he passed on things like Legend, The Last Emperor, Maverick, A River Runs Through It and literally dozens I can’t remember .
I just stopped reading them ( I’m sure he did as well).
It was always that we were SO busy and these things usually came up at very short notice, so there was no possibility to fit in the ones he might have wanted to do anyway, and then it was on to the next thing ( some of the scripts were SO bad the films didn't get made).
Sailing To Portsmouth.
Memory again…29 songs! Really?
If Terry says so then he must have got that info from me.
Incidentally Terry is a stickler for detail, for getting everything right, is completely reliable and for the record you can always believe what he says.
Liz Whatley was the same …did a fantastic job …she got the info from me and then she was on her own until sadly she quit in 1995 out of sheer frustration at what WASN’T going on.
By the way, we are all still in touch, ditto Jean, John Horwood, most of the musicians and many of the crew ( and one or two musicians not ..I don’t need negativity in my life so fuck ‘em).
Again I think a double CD (as it would have been by then) was planned at least by MK in his head, but not communicated to me which was becoming a bit of an issue by then ie his lack of interaction, a kind of studied vagueness.
Your comments in the threads about “rescuing songs” is bang on and I’d say that's true of ALL the acts I've managed or worked with, especially the songwriters eg Gerry Rafferty, Paul Brady ( who has a great interview on Lefsetz’s site), Bryan Ferry ( for sure), Scott Walker ( my hero) and Paul Buchanan ( The Blue Nile who took 7 years to make an album now much loved by Taylor Swift apparently !) .
It's part of the creative process and M has probably dumped way more than he’s used, or just not finished, or changed in the process.
I know it took him over 3 months working every day to write “ Romeo and Juliet”. You get out what you put in, always.
In that long list on the thread are many titles I don’t remember/recognise.
DMG’s comment about my input on album content is pretty close and I’ve alluded to it above re LOG.
The first 3 albums defined themselves, every song that was recorded made it on including a few fillers eg Les Boys and we were always scratching away for “ B ” sides back then.
I do recall hearing a huge number of songs all at one go at the Mews studio, a bit silly in itself because no one can absorb 100 mins plus of music in one play, only to be asked as the last note fades away, “ what do you think?”
I thought and said that we had a good single album ( not a great one) , that alot of previous musical ideas were being recycled and that putting out the whole lot as a double CD was a mistake ( this also involved a dialogue about retail pricing ie too high, cost of paper inserts ( yes ..record co’s tried to claw back everything) and the usual drone about singles ( I didn't think there was one ).
This did not go down well AT ALL but what’s the point of asking for someone’s opinion if you are going to object to the answer ?
And I honestly don’t know the answers to your last set of questions eg were any used subsequently or how long the sessions took etc, sorry, too long ago.
What I can say here is that he and I did not “argue in the street” which is laughable/ridiculous BUT there is an essence of truth to that tale ( and not as per the bonkers rumours I’ve heard).
M is not someone who “argues” , that’s not his personality.
He and I didn't shout at each other EVER that I can remember, it might have been better if we had.
He avoids confrontation ( understandable ) and alot that went down from 1988 post Mandela concert on would have been better dealt with IF he had confronted things, Jack and Terry not being rehired at least for the OES tour which I’m still baffled by, other stuff that’s too personal to get into here.
I will say that all the theorising on your site about me wanting to keep DS going after the BIA tour, returning to DS post GH etc is wholly untrue as is the nonsense about me wanting to “ direct ” his musical development , presumably for money.
As a manager you work with what your artist gives you and if you don’t like it you should quit and get out.
I thought we were done in April 1986 hence the Greatest Hits to wrap it all up ( that was a contractual requirement but WE chose the “when” not the record companies.)
With hindsight I wish it had been.
GH was a first solo album to me, not a precursor to another DS record.
Psychologically I thought the band was done, that we had quit at the top although that was NEVER discussed and I was pretty sick of the “ scale ” it had become, all that “ biggest band in the World " stuff.
Utter rubbish and put out there by lazy journalists who don’t know how to write about music ( that includes most music writers ).
THIRD QUESTION
Let me dare to add another question.... please, would you consider to write that so much expected memoir book? We all know it would be pure gem!, top stories narrated in a great style mixing facts with humour, please!
Thanks for reading this, and if you decide to take some time answering, millions of thanks again!
THIRD QUESTION which comes before the FOURTH you haven’t asked yet.
IF I were to do a book it would be a memoir NOT a book solely about DS/MK and it would be warts and all otherwise why bother ( or worry? )
Looking at some of your threads , for instance ( in Jack Sonni content ) the stuff about me calling the solo band "The Dullards" ( which I absolutely deny and I'd LOVE to know where that came from and the context if there is one, and IF I did that would be my sense of humour ) and, since I’m on that, I have NO chip on my shoulder regarding Mark or Dire Straits ( I quit, I wasn’t “ dumped ” …..I’d likely still be doing it now if I hadn’t ), and I went on to set up and become Managing Director and Senior Vice President of William Morris Endeavour International with 55 staff in London, although I imagine Dust My Broom may not think that’s “doing anything’ post MK. .
Google them, they are the World’s largest and best known talent and sports agency who rep MK in North America.
Best to all
Ed
PS since I wrote the above the second epic Lefsetz interview has come out.
I've read the comments up to page 18.
I may or may not comment on those but i'm travelling right now.
I will say that some folks appear to either be deaf or plain stupid but that’s the human condition.
As Dusty Springfield says “ listen…it’s all there” and the stuff about Clapton v Mark is nonsense. REALLY stupid. THEY ARE DIFFERENT KINDS OF PLAYER just like Buddy Rich and Keith Moon were different kinds of drummers.
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To jbaent - Thank you for reaching out and for posting this, very much appreciated.
To Ed - thank you again and my sincere apologies, I'm an idiot spouting nonsense on the internet, and like all idiots spouting nonsense on the internet I'm ignorant and had no idea about your post Damage career with William Morris so I stand 100% corrected.
Love, Dust My Broom x
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Thanks for the responses Ed and posting Jbaent.
Interesting to hear the films he turned down. I tend to think he would make time for them now after he postponed recording his latest album to make a silly TV series.
I really could be doing with STP as a double album and Privateering a single though!
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I knew about Maverick, from memory Randy Newman ended up doing it and was no doubt better suited.
Again from memory he also turned down Point Break because he thought it sounded silly.
BTW, going by the search function this is the first reference to The Dullards...
Thanks DS1984.
The OES tour still sounds lengthy and gruelling, especially if cracks were appearing before this.
Did Ed Bicknell continue post the OES commitments into Golden Heart or did he and Mark cut loose before Golden Heart? Ed features quite extensively in a book on Peter Grant I read recently - seemingly be attended gigs by the Notting Hillbillies, taking the "role" of Ed's manager (in a joke on another attendee) and also went to a few DS gigs, with them being friends thereafter on the UK south coast. Is Ed still active in management?
Mark and Ed split up after Sailing to Philadelphia was recorded, but before the STP tour. I believe, just from second-hand info, that Mark was tired of Ed pushing so hard to tour and possibly to record what he thought was saleable music. I heard that Ed wanted DS to re-form and do a big tour to support the Private Investigations best-of album, but Mark wouldn't hear of it. Ed also liked to call the 96ers "The Dullards" - lol.
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I remember an interview when Last Exit To Brooklyn came out that he did it because German film producer Bernd Eichinger who he said was a friend of him asked him to do the music for it, he also mentioned that he knew the Hubert Selby novel.
He mentioned a request for a "ridicoulus" movie where bank robbers were wearing masks of US Predidents (Point Break) and imitated Bernardo Bertulucci's Italian accent when he had asked him to do the soundtrack for The Last Emperor..All in one interview... busy times indeed.
LE
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Okay, so the number of possible reasons for the Knopfler/Bicknell split seems to have narrowed down to two:
1) Disagreement over the quality of the STP material.
2) Personal stuff that Ed won't get into.*
*not until the memoir comes out. I'm looking forward to that. ;D
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Okay, so the number of possible reasons for the Knopfler/Bicknell split seems to have narrowed down to two:
1) Disagreement over the quality of the STP material.
2) Personal stuff that Ed won't get into.*
*not until the memoir comes out. I'm looking forward to that. ;D
From the last podcast I understood it was that they looked at things in different ways, like when Ed wanted MK to do a lot of promotion but MK didn't wanted, and ended doing even more with PCM...
From what I read from Ed, he was used to be honest with his opinions to MK, and it arrived a moment when MK didn't want that honesty no more, just wanted his manager to agree with him.
I might be wrong but that's my impression.
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From the last podcast I understood it was that they looked at things in different ways, like when Ed wanted MK to do a lot of promotion but MK didn't wanted, and ended doing even more with PCM...
I just went back to double check this.
Ed says that MK "agreed" to do all the promo appearances.
Ed set them all up.
Then MK said he didn't want to do them anymore, because he didn't want to be a "public figure".
Then they had a meeting, MK said something that really offended Ed, and they went their separate ways.
Then MK went and did all the promo anyway.
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From the last podcast I understood it was that they looked at things in different ways, like when Ed wanted MK to do a lot of promotion but MK didn't wanted, and ended doing even more with PCM...
I just went back to double check this.
Ed says that MK "agreed" to do all the promo appearances.
Ed set them all up.
Then MK said he didn't want to do them anymore, because he didn't want to be a "public figure".
Then they had a meeting, MK said something that really offended Ed, and they went their separate ways.
Then MK went and did all the promo anyway.
Yeah, the real reason must be the "personal stuff". It always is, isn't it? When you criticize someone professionally but reassure them that you still like them as a person, that's never a problem. I'm sure Ed will tell the world one day what exactly happened between them. Unfortunately, Mark never will, so we'll only get one side of the story.
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Yeah, the real reason must be the "personal stuff". It always is, isn't it? When you criticize someone professionally but reassure them that you still like them as a person, that's never a problem. I'm sure Ed will tell the world one day what exactly happened between them. Unfortunately, Mark never will, so we'll only get one side of the story.
I think the "real reason" is exactly what Ed said it was. The relationship had run its course on both a personal and business level, and it was time to move on following a long and successful career together.
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Well, it seems that at least they're still on speaking terms.
Thanks to Ed, for the time you put into answering all these questions! Not a lot of ex-managers would do that, thirty years later.
What I found shocking is the story about those demotapes. MK has really been unlucky a few times, having the guitar stolen, then the tapes, and wasn't there also a laptop that disappeared on tour or something?
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Would like to know from Ed is there are any other multirack live tapes or there we don't know about. Eg like The Rainbow which we only discovered when the box set came out.
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I wonder what was on the tapes, it seems like the demos we all know were a part of it?
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Thank you jbaent for your messages from Ed.
I remember my surprise that "The Lily Of The West" was on Golden Demos.
Those were fantastic times. You could officially buy “Golden Demos” in the store. Today it's impossible.
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Yesterday when I answered Ed to thank him for sending me that message and allowing me to post it here, I slipped some other comments and questions, which I know I shouldn't but as Ed was so kind it felt natural for me, maybe I was pusihing my luck too far but in the contrary, Ed was again very very kind and answered me as kind and funny than in the previous mails and allowed me to post his comments.
I know they would read weird out of context but this is what he told me, I hope you find it interesting. I thanked him for provinding as with accurate information as we always had to rely on articles on magazines, and things in this or that web site, and he answered me the following:
I understand your difficulty with source material and yes, much of what is written in the web is rubbish, complete nonsense.
For instance there was never ANY discussion about a second Hillbillies record.
Not once and the tours we did after the first long one , plus the Ronnie Scott's residencies were just for fun really, nothing more ie we weren’t “promoting” anything and hardly made any money on any NHB live performances so that wasn’t a motivation.
The album sold way more than any of us expected..I think about 2.5m Worldwide ( back then) and the proceeds of that were divided 4 ways ( MK, SP, BC, GF ).
And there is nothing to “read into that” ie no subplots, no arguments ( AT ALL ) , it was never intended to be more than a “one off”.
As you have realised a good part of what I’ve sent you is an attempt to correct the “facts” BUT occasionally I can’t remember eg the Neil Jason stuff..his interview baffled me and he had no reason to make that up but what came out on BIA is as I have indicated.
You are welcome to post this comment if you want.
I also made him a little comment about John's book being too polite and sometimes not going as deep as we would had liked specially with some ex members departures, and Ed answered me this:
I was very disappointed by John’s book ( which was ghostwritten by the way ) and the numerous mistakes eg the Portland Oregon when it was Portland, Maine example I’ve quoted previously. There are many more.
But really, who cares? ( I know you lot do!)
He could easily have fact checked with me or Terry Kilburn but didn't.
Why I don't know, we are pretty friendly.
His opinions are different than facts so on that front, good for him for expressing.
“Polite”…I can only guess that he didn't want to “offend” Mark but I don't really know.
The “departures”.
This needs a much longer response than I can do here.
Pick I’ve explained and he’s more than hinted in several You Tube interviews he’s done ,the ‘' why. “
"Personality issues" is the main one .
Hal…John’s book gives his version which is correct but there is quite a bit more which he didn't describe and I’m not going to here..I’ll save that for now.
"Personality issues " you might call it.
The Terry stuff is NOT correct.
This one is complicated because neither Terry nor I understand what happened or why he was “let go” and I’ve been trying for several months now to find out EXACTLY what went on. Chuck’s comment is mystifying.
Terry told me he did NOT play on any OES songs at all.
Jack. That is a sad tale, especially given he’s passed.
His podcast is pretty accurate I think but I wasn’t there.
He was pretty bitter about the way his friendship with Mark just disappeared and again, other than asking MK I don't know and I’m not going to do that.
It could have been handled alot better.
I will say that excluding Pick , ALL those players were “ hired sidemen” ( ditto Guy, Alan, Chris W ) and as such it was TOUR BY TOUR. It was NOT a permanent position ( Guy's did become that).
Thanks Ed by your generosity.
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More helpful info, thank you both!
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Very funny when Ed was laughing at MK going on a show hosted by a "market gardener".
(This is what he was referring to BTW)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0j_uCdt8Y0
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Very funny when Ed was laughing at MK going on a show hosted by a "market gardener".
(This is what he was referring to BTW)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0j_uCdt8Y0
Well, there's a lot to be said for plants in a time of climate change. And this is a beautiful rendition of a wonderful song. Thanks for, erm, digging it out.
And thanks to Ed, yes, for being so open, even if he still has to reveal (and eventually will) what when on exactly between him and Mark. It will need to be a bit more specific than "the relationship had run its course".
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"This is the best band we've ever brought to Australia, by an enormous margin." - Ed Bicknell, 1991
https://youtu.be/4xJva5tE00Y?t=402
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"This is the best band we've ever brought to Australia, by an enormous margin." - Ed Bicknell, 1991
https://youtu.be/4xJva5tE00Y?t=402
Marketing!
It's like how every new Rolling Stones album is spun as "their best since Black and Blue" :)
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About Ed's comment on DS members as hired sidemen, hired "tour by tour"...
It's just that this seems so odd with someone like Terry, who played a monumental role on Alchemy and that tour, played on BIA, did the world tour, did the Mandela show... At some point, one stops being the hired help, and Terry simply cannot have been seen as such, by anybody.
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About Ed's comment on DS members as hired sidemen, hired "tour by tour"...
It's just that this seems so odd with someone like Terry, who played a monumental role on Alchemy and that tour, played on BIA, did the world tour, did the Mandela show... At some point, one stops being the hired help, and Terry simply cannot have been seen as such, by anybody.
I would imagine that Ed wasn't referring to Terry's artistic role, because Terry and also Alan certainly played a major role in the band, in the studio and on stage. Maybe it was more about money, work contracts and the like.
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About Ed's comment on DS members as hired sidemen, hired "tour by tour"...
It's just that this seems so odd with someone like Terry, who played a monumental role on Alchemy and that tour, played on BIA, did the world tour, did the Mandela show... At some point, one stops being the hired help, and Terry simply cannot have been seen as such, by anybody.
I would imagine that Ed wasn't referring to Terry's artistic role, because Terry and also Alan certainly played a major role in the band, in the studio and on stage. Maybe it was more about money, work contracts and the like.
I think Ed is talking more in contractual terms than spirit, I.e they were on some kind of fixed fee or day rate on a tour by tour basis rather than some wider stake in royalties etc. This arrangement would have made departures more eat.
Personally I agree with the sentiment Terry was a big part of a soul of the band in the time he was involved, regardless of contractual terms
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About Ed's comment on DS members as hired sidemen, hired "tour by tour"...
It's just that this seems so odd with someone like Terry, who played a monumental role on Alchemy and that tour, played on BIA, did the world tour, did the Mandela show... At some point, one stops being the hired help, and Terry simply cannot have been seen as such, by anybody.
I would imagine that Ed wasn't referring to Terry's artistic role, because Terry and also Alan certainly played a major role in the band, in the studio and on stage. Maybe it was more about money, work contracts and the like.
I think Ed is talking more in contractual terms than spirit, I.e they were on some kind of fixed fee or day rate on a tour by tour basis rather than some wider stake in royalties etc. This arrangement would have made departures more easy.
Personally I agree with the sentiment Terry was a big part of a soul of the band in the time he was involved, regardless of contractual terms
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About Ed's comment on DS members as hired sidemen, hired "tour by tour"...
It's just that this seems so odd with someone like Terry, who played a monumental role on Alchemy and that tour, played on BIA, did the world tour, did the Mandela show... At some point, one stops being the hired help, and Terry simply cannot have been seen as such, by anybody.
I would imagine that Ed wasn't referring to Terry's artistic role, because Terry and also Alan certainly played a major role in the band, in the studio and on stage. Maybe it was more about money, work contracts and the like.
What Ed says makes a lot of sence. Terry was hired for two tours and played only on the EP and the intro of MfN (and Alchemy, of course). IMO he was not the soul or sound of DS at all, but fun and loud at gigs. Alan was also hired for tours, but played on several records and played a major rolle in what became «the new» DS sound. But since Making Movies, DS has just been MK’s solo project with different session and touring musicians. You can hear it in the music too. The first two records had a very consistant and distinct funky, bluesy and jazzy sound, driven by the rhythm section (the band). After Making Movies, the DS sound was gone, but MK came forward with rock, a different kind of jazz (New York style?), symphonic pop, country and a lot of synths.
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Didn't Terry play on LOG, same as Alan?
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Didn't Terry play on LOG, same as Alan?
It’s Pick.
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Legally talking, the band DS were MK, David, John and Pick at the start.
When David and Pick left, the band was just MK and John, the rest were always hired musicians for the band, with contracts to play in studio or live, or both, with the band, but legally no part of the band at all.
Spiritually, musically, yes, there are more members of the band, but legally talking, two.
did Guy's position not get improved at some point? (DS period i mean)
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Guy and Alan were full members on the OES Album. See credits. ("Dire Straits are ...")
LE
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yeah, but from a "Dire Straits Ltd." perspective?
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Guy and Alan were full members on the OES Album. See credits. ("Dire Straits are ...")
LE
I'd say that was probably an arrangement for the economical part regarding the record sales, the producers percentage etc, remember the record also says produced by Dire Straits. And who are DS who produce it? Here you have it.
Everything regarding the tour was done by DS Overseas or/and DS Limited, whose members were according to sites that state which persons own each company, MK, JI and Ed Bicknell. The rest were paid for the tour with no further benefits (or debts...) except if when they arrange their contracts they included any clause regarding benefits percentage, of course, but every musician had his own contract, as said by Guy in his forum, Chris in his posts here and other musicians in their facebook accounts when asked by fans.
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Didn't Terry play on LOG, same as Alan?
It’s Pick.
In John's book and Ed's interview they both come across as annoyed with Pick for recording the album and then leaving, the implication being that he would get royalties for the record but wouldn't have to do the tour to promote it.
In those days live work was more to promote the album than make money, kind of opposite to how things are now.
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Re Terry and OES, on a question raised on Guy's Forum in March 2023, he appears to confirm that Terry was present at least at the very start of the OES sessions. See below from 9 March 2023. Like Ed says this is complicated.
"Dear Doc: I got to watch a long interview with Chuck Ainlay. Seems like a great guy and it is a very amusing chat with him. Great stories and kind words for Your Docness. He says that the very first thing he had to do with Dire Straits was to record some OES tracks in London with the drummer ‘who was with them in their last tour (I’m assuming that was BIA tour and he was talking about Terry). He says that it didn’t work out and so the drummer had to be dismissed. First time that anybody ever heard about TW involvement in OES whatsoever. Is this accurate? Thanks a lot
» https://www.guyfletcher.com/2022-studio-diary-week...
A: Guy
Yes. That was when we pulled in Jeff Porcaro."
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Pretty savage ditching Terry not once but twice. If they thought he wasn't suitable for BiA what made them think he would be suitable for OES?
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Pretty savage ditching Terry not once but twice. If they thought he wasn't suitable for BiA what made them think he would be suitable for OES?
Yes, probably would have been more fair to just not ask him again. I'm glad it didn't work out, though. Just imagine how much less great On Every Street would have been without Jeff Porcaro ...
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Hello everyone, a new message by ED BICKNELL.
This time is because something I did wrong here in AMIT, so this message from Ed is my fault and I take the blame of it.
When SOS compilation was released back in 1998, David Knopfler and his the wife Anna released on DK site some notes regarding issues with the DK royalties of that compilation in which they mentioned that Ed and MK were involved in that. I wongly took that as facts and I never checked if that was true or not further than what they put on their site, and in some old threads I refered to that information, sometimes directly without refer to the source. Ed read that posts and obviouly was pissed off by that, because IT WASN'T TRUE and wrote me.
Obviously I appologised about that mistake, for which I'm very ashamed and also I have to apologize to all forum members by providing false information to AMIT.
Dear Ed, again, I'm very sorry for this.
Also Ed talks about the way we talked about and we interacted with Chris Whitten. In that I had an important part because of a very stupid post by me regarding how Chris played Sultans. After he started to interact with us I apologized to him in a private message, but just in case he didn't read it at the time, CHRIS, I'M SO SORRY FOR BEING AN ASS WITH THAT STUPID AND IGNORANT COMMENT, you explained very well of what happened and clearly you didn't deserve such a comment.
I'm so ashamed about all of it than from this very moment, I'm putting me on stand by in this forum and thinking seriously about leaving, as this great forum deserves better than me.
ED BICKNELL'S MESSAGE:
This after-noon I was idly doodling thru the AMIT “ General Discussion ” pages as far back as they go and came upon several references to David Knopfler’s claims about him being “ cut out ” of royalties on the DS Best Of that came out in 1998 ( SOS).
When I read the first entry way back which contained several false statements by David and his then wife, plus the comments you made, I decided to let it go.
Not worth rehashing something so long ago, as in “ who cares”, it’s not as if many people are even reading his site.
But when I saw your comments on page 1 February 11 2020 which is way more recent, I thought I should drop you this note.
Firstly, how do you know about the minutiae of the band’s royalty arrangements and on what basis are you repeating what is essentially a libel against Mark and myself?
Where did you get this information and with whom did you fact check it or did you just take those statements as being 100% accurate and not bother?
A fan website is not a forum to make wild and legally unsupportable statements let alone ones which are ethically and morally bankrupt and really hurtful to those in the firing line.
David Knopfler received, and as far as I know continues to receive, his full royalty entitlement ie one quarter of Sultans and Lady Writer WHEREVER those tracks are used ( and everything he played on) , be they on the original albums, compilations, synchronisation licences, in movies, on TV commercials, in public toilets, anywhere, INCLUDING the “Money For Nothing “ Best Of and the SOS compilation.
Not ONCE in the entire time I worked with him did Mark ( or John ) ever ask me to “manipulate" any royalty entitlement for any musician ie the original four, and I would have refused if either had done so, not least because it would have breached the original inter band agreements they entered into in, I think, early 1978 ( a four way equal split including of advances ).
The idea is offensive, absurd and grossly insulting to all of us.
In any case, rule two of management ( self preservation being rule one) is "DO NOT HANDLE YOUR ARTIST’S MONEY” and I never did ( except touring up to 1986 via separate client’s accounts.)
That was done by Harris and Trotter their accountants since 1978, so THEY would have to have been party to what would essentially have been a fraud, presumably along with Mark and John’s lawyer.
That makes the allegations even more surreal.
In the 2022 post YOU ARE REPEATING the allegations along with the claim that David “ took legal actions ” which he did not.
In fact David benefited every time I renegotiated that original deal ( both with Phonogram and Warners) because unusually I improved the terms backwards as well as forwards, so the first and second albums WENT UP to the rate that the NEXT one would be.
I didn't need to include him in that after he left ( I wasn’t representing him) but it would have been churlish and mean spirited not to do so.
So his royalty rate more than quadrupled from the original deal which I didn’t do, to the one I left them with.
The same applies to Pick, with whom incidentally I have a warm and enduring friendship.
You are stating in a public forum that I was party to a conspiracy between Mark and myself to act dishonestly which neither of us would ever do, let alone involving a family member.
He and I may be many things but dishonest we are not.
Record companies account BY TRACK/SONG, not by album, so he would have received one quarter of the sales of Sultans on the first compilation and one quarter of Sultans and Lady Writer on the second.
When David’s alleged claim first arose I met with his then lawyer and accountant and invited them to audit the statements held by Harris and Trotter but pointed out David would have to pay for that ( as would any artist ).
As far as I know no audits took place and wouldn’t have produced anything ( excluding human error) even if they had.
Interestingly he had no complaints about the MFN compilation which had similar terms eg royalty rates, recoupment ( or not) of TV advertising if I remember correctly, which brings me to…..
David was the beneficiary of my negotiating NO recoupment of TV advertising costs in any territory eg UK, Australia, South Africa, France etc etc etc where TV was used.
That would normally have been 50% of the TV spend ( not in the USA where it wasn’t used ).
So literally hundreds of thousand of £ THEN (well over £1 million Worldwide I’m sure.)
Probably a unique arrangement at the time ( I’ve never heard of anyone else getting that. Obviously TV advertising is no longer used.
So contrary to what you are repeating, David HUGELY benefited from my efforts as was explained to him when this arose. Whether he understood I can’t say ( but he’s certainly not stupid ).
His royalty had roughly quadrupled for instance, so much for “ not seeing a penny ”.
I notice that you and quite a few others set yourselves up as having some inner knowledge of stuff you know NOTHING about , especially since you have no clue as to the context of most of what you pontificate about, like you have an “inside track” that set’s you/they above the other members.
Well you don’t.
Most of the time that doesn’t matter, it’s too trivial to even bother correcting, but you crossed a line here and I expect you to print this exactly as I have written it.
In future, think twice before you make wild and unsubstantiated allegations based on hearsay which demean and undermine someone else’s reputation.
I think I told you and your group very early on that you should NOT believe what you read on the internet about MK or DS. It is 90% rubbish, put there by people who know even less than you do for whatever motive, usually self aggrandisement, “ look what I know, I’m on the inside” kind of thing, where speculation morphs into fact.
The David Knopfler situation is complicated precisely BECAUSE he and Mark are brothers.
If he was just a guitarist spouting lies it would be different and would have been dealt with legally but with him we had to take a less confrontational approach, the essence of which was to ignore it.
The allegations were definitely not ironic and sarcastic and even though you are Spanish you know English well enough to recognise what was being said.
In this case you should have asked yourself “is this true” before repeating it just so that it fits in with your ignorant and mistaken theories about the relationship of the two of them, which many on the site seem to thrive on speculating about when you know diddly shit about it.
Before putting this out into what is a PUBLIC forum ( which could have been picked up by the press for instance) you should have asked yourself how can I check this and if I can’t should I be repeating remarks which are basically accusing Mark and Ed of theft, because IF I had manipulated his royalties ( and by the way I had no means of doing that technically ) where would that money have gone?
To Mark? To me? Really?
And also ask yourself ( as I had to), what’s the motive behind this from David’s point of view …that never crossed your mind did it?
Something to beat up his brother with perhaps?
Greed?
Or a genuine misunderstanding of how contracts and record company accounting works?
In the creative arts, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and there is no better example than this mess.
Moving on.
You and your pals need to cease your uninformed criticisms which frequently drift into just being rude and toxic.
Some of the posts about Chris Whitten and the way they are written are just nasty, mean and mean spirited and I can tell you he is rightly upset about them as I would be.
Too many of your flock seem to think that they can second guess Sir Paul McCartney, The Waterboys, Mark Knopfler and the dozens of artists he’s worked with nearly all Division One.
The same goes for Pick and Terry, Chad and Ian.
Well FUCK them!
They are a bunch of ignorant, self-indulgent wankers who couldn’t survive behind a drum kit if they were plugged into the mains!
They are ALL great players with different styles.
End of subject.
You and many of the AMIT bunch need to take this on board .
It’s JUST pop music, and that’s ALL it is, and by definition that’s disposable, generational and for the most part mediocre.
Constructive criticism is fine but it’s not a vehicle to personally insult people. ….I saw a thing about me the other day ( I don't think it's on AMIT..can’t remember ) saying that I was drunk in the NHBs and can't play in time!
I don't drink and as for playing in time if it was good enough for Mark and the other guys, fuck it. I do not care ( that was pretty funny actually ).
In conclusion.
I do not take kindly to having my reputation rubbished and although Mark and I certainly have had our differences, I’m not going to stand by and have him falsely accused on the fan site dedicated to him!
Oh and by the way, you folks should get off discussing people’s private lives eg Mark’s girlfriends ..it’s none of your business, it’s intrusive idiotic gossip and it has nothing to do with the music.
That's it and that’s all ,
ED.
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Thanks to Ed for setting the record "strait" (boom fucking boom) and well done Jbaent for holding your hands up.
Our interactions with Ed, Chris and other DS members who have been kind enough to post on here should certainly give us pause. Yes, it is legitimate to offer opinions and they can be negative, but when we are typing something about someone we should probably pause and think about how they would feel if they read it before hitting send.
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I have deleted some posts today but just wanted to add that anyone can report a post at any time if they are unhappy with it and we can remove it.
Ed, I know you are not a forum member so if there is a post you would like deleted just email me at dustyvalentino@hotmail.com.
I may be in the middle of nowhere, but I only wanna be with you.
Love, Dusty x
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i see a bromance popping up...
great that Julio stands up to his mistakes.
still Jboy, DO NOT LEAVE!
@Ed, pls keep idly browsing our wicked platform, your insights have given us so much.
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@ed: but one thing, when you write:
You and your pals need to cease your uninformed criticisms which frequently drift into just being rude and toxic.
that is not the way it works, also, most on here are not "our pals" but just people that like Mark's music, be it in DS, NHB, solo or collabs with other artists.
they come here to spout there opinion, which is what a forum is all about.
Do i agree with all the comments on here, holy hell no, but we do try to keep the freedom of speach mantra alive on here, unless people start insulting or saying illegal stuff (racism, spam, etc..)
i got annoyed when i saw some on here "attacking" Chris, but,..see line above. also, Chris, as much as i loved his input, is a grown up who can defend himself (which he did) and is not forced to stay (pls do Chris, just being theoretical)
sometimes it is just not worth it replying to some of the dumb s§"#" some "fans" have posted on here
BUT most of us on here just genuinely love the music and want to know more about all that comes with it. that does include said artist.
That's it and that’s all
MvP
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I love when this messages from Ed comes but at the same time I feel like I'm being watched by the policeman...
It sucks when fans have to stick to whatever we read as facts, but we don't have any way to know the real truth anyway.
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Ed is right and makes me feel ashamed of being part of this group. The mentioned "Mantra of free speech" should be renamed or added by "Mantra of the responsibility of free speech." Free speech seems to mean "I can say whatever I want as I am allowed to because we are all in for free speech here". Also the forum rules should be added about the fact checking point that Ed mentioned. Write the way you could take responsibility for it in case you had to defend yourself in court.
LE
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I understand Ed being pissed-off with the royalties thing.
However, I don't really understand his part about the criticism. I mean, this is a fan forum, what do you expect? Everyone to only say positive things all the time about everything? Of course, if it comes to personal attacks or insulting that's different.
But I honestly don't see what's so wrong about a fan saying he or she doesn't like Chris Whitten's drumming or Ian's drumming, or Mark's playing on ODR, or David Knopfler's playing abilities or Alan Clark's contributions, etc. As Pottel said above, I also don't agree with some of the opinions here, but that's what a fan forum is for, I think.
If we have to come here with rose-tinted glasses all the time and say how we love everything that was or is being done, just because someone might get offended, we might as well not have a forum at all.
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Ed is right and makes me feel ashamed of being part of this group. The mentioned "Mantra of free speech" should be renamed or added by "Mantra of the responsibility of free speech." Free speech seems to mean "I can say whatever I want as I am allowed to because we are all in for free speech here". Also the forum rules should be added about the fact checking point that Ed mentioned. Write the way you could take responsibility for it in case you had to defend yourself in court.
LE
all very nice, and you and i, and most of us on here DO. but you are not realistic if you expect all to keep to that mantra. just not the way people are when they are online, mostly anonymous.
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New message by Ed:
Hi there Julio,
Thank you for putting that up.
Look…..maybe I overreacted but it’s annoying and very HURTFUL to see old and long settled issues being rehashed years later as if they are FACT.
It was tedious enough when David and his then wife made their allegations years ago and eventually that was sorted out as I described ( I’ve no idea how David feels about it now or back then.)
The relationship between Mark and David is what it is but to ascribe that to the incident we are talking about is wrong and in part I was , maybe clumsily , trying to correct that notion.
Anyway, you have done the correct and honourable thing and as I told you yesterday your apology is accepted.
There is no need for you to leave the forum, certainly not on my account, your contributions rank among the more sensible so hang in there, stop beating yourself up, have a sausage and a glass of sangria.
Anyway it’s not as if I’m going to be corresponding regularly so I’m perfectly happy to maintain our contact, I don't need anyone else ( thanks for volunteering Dusty Particles ).
One other thing which relates to the comments today on your/my post.
As I have said being a fan is an adventure.
I completely understand why people seek information and when I first contacted you it was to provide some fact checking which seems to have been welcomed. I know that was Chris Whitten’s motivation as well.
I think the real issue here is when the dialogue between you crosses over into what is perilously close to character assassination ( Chris W ) OR seeks to delve into personal aspects of people’s PRIVATE lives ( Mark’s girlfriends, ex wives ) when that information is NOT already in the public domain as , for instance , the Holly Vincent episode is.
Chris did not ask me to intercede.
As Pottel says he’s a big boy ( you have no idea quite how big ) and can and did defend himself.
I just thought the comment about his playing on Sultans was way beyond acceptable, especially since the way he played it was how Mark wanted him to.
I have shared his experience ( in the NHB’s ) and can entirely relate, I still wake up in a cold sweat thinking about blackboards with NO ticks on them and wondering if anybody has eaten the sausages they are saving for me in the NOMIS canteen and does the mustard dispenser need refilling again?
All I’m saying is when you are commenting or criticising, and there’s nothing wrong with that, just remember that there’s a difference between being civil and plain rude.
None of you want to be rude do you?
You can be passionate without being abusive.
Pottel, I completely “get “ that this is a FORUM and why it exists and I totally support the notion of a free exchange of thoughts, opinions and ideas, certainly criticisms, but repeating false allegations which imply that Mark and I deliberately sought to disadvantage David financially is way way out of order ( that becomes part of the illegal stuff you mention. )
But that’s settled as far as I'm concerned , let’s move on.
Wayaman. I’ve no interest in being a “policeman” ( pretty funny but do you really think that I spend my time trawling thru AMIT looking for “crimes” ? )
You don't have to “stick” to anything and both Chris and I have been trying to help all of you with the “real truth” as you call it.
Surely you understand that the real truth in this case was not as Jabent had repeated and which I was bound to correct since it was way more serious than the usual banter between you and included Mark to whom your site is dedicated as well as me.
Your forum is PUBLIC.
I value my reputation such as it is and I will defend myself when and if I feel that’s necessary.
For what it’s worth that was the first and only time I’ve ever had to do that which might be why it rankles so much.
The drummer thing I’ll freely admit is just something I feel strongly about because it’s personal to me and as a player I know that ALL of the drummer’s Mark has worked with are talented craftsmen who spent years honing that craft.
He can be almost draconian sometimes in getting the results which is the music you love, why you're on this site in the first place.
If you're going to be a bandleader there is a responsibility that comes with that and in his case and many others ( Miles Davis, Springsteen come to mind) the results are there for all to hear.
One last thing.
There is SO much I’d like to tell you ( I know “write a book, write a book” ) but in my ( now former, thank God) profession there’s an unspoken line ….and I don't know where it is…concerning what I’ll call the CONTEXT of how what you hear/consume, arises.
In many many of the threads I read , mostly the General Discussion but a few others, I see discussions, questions, theories, speculation …..what Pottel refers to as "wanting to know more about all that comes with it “ where I have had to literally bite my lip because the answers cross that invisible line between the personal and the professional.
It’s what’s stopped me publishing a book ( and presumably others because I can’t think of ANY manager who’s done a book from the “inside” ) because it is IMPOSSIBLE to remove the creative bit from the personal bit and make no mistake, the creative would not exist if it were not for the personal , that’s obvious.
So what happens is that the personal bits come out like a dripping tap and you seize on those and they get spun out of all recognition ..what wayaman refers to as “whatever we read as facts” which are NOT the facts and were I to give you the the context you would be stunned at best and disbelieving at worst and what would that achieve?
Anyway. Let's get past this and Jabent , pop out to the local patisserie and get yourself some Lamb Merguez sausages and pretend your Peter McKay secretly gorging yourself on a sausage intended for your hero in some cold Canadian arena , not realising that you are committing the SIN OF SINS and putting your very livelihood at risk.
Take care all , these are precarious times.
ED
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Well, all's well that ends well then. :)
For the avoidance of doubt, I wasn't attempting to usurp Jbaent as Ed's point of contact, merely offering a straightforward way to get any posts deleted for anyone who is not a member, members just report the post as per usual. :)
Carry on!
On the question of civility in posting, I guess a good rule of thumb is asking yourself if you would say what you are about to post to someone's face if you met them in person...
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"On the question of civility in posting, I guess a good rule of thumb is asking yourself if you would say what you are about to post to someone's face if you met them in person...
Very good comment. It's always worth thinking about it.
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I finally finished the interview. Took me ages but listened to it in chunks.
It’s fascinating and brilliant. One comment that I picked up on was that MK and DK haven’t spoken in about 30 years. I know that Guy F has met DK, we can infer that from his opening sentences of the DS live box set diary. I wonder the context in which they met.
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I finally finished the interview. Took me ages but listened to it in chunks.
It’s fascinating and brilliant. One comment that I picked up on was that MK and DK haven’t spoken in about 30 years. I know that Guy F has met DK, we can infer that from his opening sentences of the DS live box set diary. I wonder the context in which they met.
well spotted, i had never thought about that sentence more then about the pick part in it, not that it actually meant he must have met Dave:
"Indeed, until six months ago, I hadn’t even met every member of the historical lineup. This was finally rectified when I was found myself chatting with Pick Withers at a Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame event at Abbey Road Studios in London. "
someone should ask him! (where and how he got into touch with DK)
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Oh my dear, has Jules quit the forum? His signature and avatar look like he has. That would be very sad indeed!
Jules, if you read this: thank you for all your posts, and I do hope you'll soon be back!
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I've just caught up with Ed's podcasts, and I just have to add my name to the chorus of thanks. What a raconteur!
Ed, if you're reading this, please write that book. I'd love to hear more about your entire career.
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I finally finished the interview. Took me ages but listened to it in chunks.
It’s fascinating and brilliant. One comment that I picked up on was that MK and DK haven’t spoken in about 30 years. I know that Guy F has met DK, we can infer that from his opening sentences of the DS live box set diary. I wonder the context in which they met.
well spotted, i had never thought about that sentence more then about the pick part in it, not that it actually meant he must have met Dave:
"Indeed, until six months ago, I hadn’t even met every member of the historical lineup. This was finally rectified when I was found myself chatting with Pick Withers at a Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame event at Abbey Road Studios in London. "
someone should ask him! (where and how he got into touch with DK)
Yeah! That’s exactly it. I mean, we are only inferring here but we can take that to assume he’s met DK.
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Oh my dear, has Jules quit the forum? His signature and avatar look like he has. That would be very sad indeed!
Jules, if you read this: thank you for all your posts, and I do hope you'll soon be back!
Oh dear oh dear.....
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I finally finished the interview. Took me ages but listened to it in chunks.
It’s fascinating and brilliant. One comment that I picked up on was that MK and DK haven’t spoken in about 30 years. I know that Guy F has met DK, we can infer that from his opening sentences of the DS live box set diary. I wonder the context in which they met.
well spotted, i had never thought about that sentence more then about the pick part in it, not that it actually meant he must have met Dave:
"Indeed, until six months ago, I hadn’t even met every member of the historical lineup. This was finally rectified when I was found myself chatting with Pick Withers at a Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame event at Abbey Road Studios in London. "
someone should ask him! (where and how he got into touch with DK)
Yeah! That’s exactly it. I mean, we are only inferring here but we can take that to assume he’s met DK.
I took it as Pick was the las person he met from the group, so, he may have met David decades ago, not necessarily recently.
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I finally finished the interview. Took me ages but listened to it in chunks.
It’s fascinating and brilliant. One comment that I picked up on was that MK and DK haven’t spoken in about 30 years. I know that Guy F has met DK, we can infer that from his opening sentences of the DS live box set diary. I wonder the context in which they met.
well spotted, i had never thought about that sentence more then about the pick part in it, not that it actually meant he must have met Dave:
"Indeed, until six months ago, I hadn’t even met every member of the historical lineup. This was finally rectified when I was found myself chatting with Pick Withers at a Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame event at Abbey Road Studios in London. "
someone should ask him! (where and how he got into touch with DK)
Yeah! That’s exactly it. I mean, we are only inferring here but we can take that to assume he’s met DK.
I took it as Pick was the las person he met from the group, so, he may have met David decades ago, not necessarily recently.
I remember Guy said once that he worked for David, I guess in a demo, same as Jack Sonni, as Guy is not on any of DK records.
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Oh my dear, has Jules quit the forum? His signature and avatar look like he has. That would be very sad indeed!
Jules, if you read this: thank you for all your posts, and I do hope you'll soon be back!
no he has not. he still has his bigly high post count and the adios on the avatar comes from a Spanish DS poster and i am assuming it was from the last zaragossa show?
he was last active today at 12:43...calm down people...the annoying spaniard is still with us!
:-)
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That's good :-)
But jbaent is not, or are they the same person? Because if I click on a message from jbaent, I get directed to Jules. Confused :hmm
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I finally finished the interview. Took me ages but listened to it in chunks.
It’s fascinating and brilliant. One comment that I picked up on was that MK and DK haven’t spoken in about 30 years. I know that Guy F has met DK, we can infer that from his opening sentences of the DS live box set diary. I wonder the context in which they met.
well spotted, i had never thought about that sentence more then about the pick part in it, not that it actually meant he must have met Dave:
"Indeed, until six months ago, I hadn’t even met every member of the historical lineup. This was finally rectified when I was found myself chatting with Pick Withers at a Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame event at Abbey Road Studios in London. "
someone should ask him! (where and how he got into touch with DK)
Yeah! That’s exactly it. I mean, we are only inferring here but we can take that to assume he’s met DK.
I took it as Pick was the las person he met from the group, so, he may have met David decades ago, not necessarily recently.
I remember Guy said once that he worked for David, I guess in a demo, same as Jack Sonni, as Guy is not on any of DK records.
DK recently said on his facebook page that he had written songs with Hal Lindes years ago.
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That's good :-)
But jbaent is not, or are they the same person? Because if I click on a message from jbaent, I get directed to Jules. Confused :hmm ;)
He simply has changed his profile name .. ;)
LE
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That's good :-)
But jbaent is not, or are they the same person? Because if I click on a message from jbaent, I get directed to Jules. Confused :hmm ;)
He simply has changed his profile name .. ;)
LE
Right, thanks for the info.
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That was a roller coaster of a thread. I spent a bit over two hours reading it, from start to end, since I missed it when it first came to life.
It felt like reading a novel, with its ups and downs, the revelatory pieces and then the last but one response by Mr. Bicknell, that was the dark twist before the end, plus the happy ending.
I think that this was the most intriguing thread I have read so far and in hindsight I am glad I read in one go, after it was finished (?) (Hopefully not. Thank you Mr. Bicknell, Mr. Whitten and Julio)
I don't know if you have even thought about it, but apart from the times some members from AMIT met in gigs, we mostly communicate through posts, written messages that we usually spend little time to think and type and even less reading them. We could have been AIs (or ASs as in stupid - pun intended) exchanging quotes and thus creating dialogs. The human element in this thread was overflowing, but it might as well have been a figment of a very rich imagination and maybe this is a possible explanation of the rumours been replicated without caution.
Perhaps it can be explained by the lack of real human contact, but also by the human nature that makes this quote sound so true:" If you have to chose between history and the legend, print the legend". And going a step further, without wanting to excuse any wrong doing, by me or anyone else, fans are prone to creating the legends because they like to think that their favourite musicians/actors/writers/painters/photographers are out of the ordinary. Of course the easiness and openness with which we exchange messages, sometimes makes us forget that this is in writing and in public and stays this way as long as a server runs. Of course, in passing, this involves political correctness, but it is a different issue, for a different thread, maybe even too heavy for the general discussion thread.
I know that the written word gets plenty of its meaning from the readers imagination, experience in life and personal development. So if 1000 people read this thread and are asked, we will most probably get 999 different perspectives. So, in a way, most things that are not backed by a definitive and unchanging fact, are just ghosts, figments of our imagination, road signs for roads we have never taken, but dare to imagine simply by looking at the names on the signs . This is why good story telling is so revered and valued. The best ones manage to transcend reality,even by using elements of it and intentionally paraphrasing it, actually going for the hardest thing of all, truth.
But this has nothing to do with this thread anymore.