A Mark In Time
Mark Knopfler Discussion => Mark Knopfler Discussion Forum => Topic started by: the visitor on January 15, 2013, 12:46:20 PM
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DS 1988
Hello all and Happy New Year
I was watching a video of Tunnel of Love being played at the Hammersmith Odeon warm up gigs back in June 1988 and it is phenomenal compared with the versions on the OES tour which sound a bit deflated. For me Dire Straits were on their top form during the June 88 shows, more advanced musically than the BIA tour, yet not so clinical sounding as the OES tour, and still with drummer Terry Williams in place.
I know that around this time the Money For Nothing compilation was released, deemed by many as the best compilation released of DS works to date and perhaps truly represents the juncture at which Dire Straits stopped being Dire Straits.
I wonder what an album recorded around this time would have sounded like. My suspicion is it could have been better than Brothers In Arms. What do you guys reckon? Do you think there was any prospect of an album being recorded at this time or was MK really focussed on other activities at this time? I think there must have been a desire from other band members as around this time I see from Discogs there is a release (that I have never heard) of KB Wallis and the Dark Shades (or something like that), comprising of all members of DS with the exception of MK.
Something happened, I know not what, between 1988 and 1990 that changed the DS sound distinctively. I think that playing with Chet Atkins must have had a massive impact upon MK, because since Neck and Neck, everything has sounded a little too country for my liking. OES as an album, whilst very listenable, has a country rock gloss to it that is out of proportion with previous DS material. That element had always been present, but once Terry had been dispensed with, that country element became over-riding for me.
Just some thoughts I have been musing over whilst listening.
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A very interesting point. There was a big lapse or gap between BIA and OES and MK seemed to be more interested in playing with other people and various other projects like film scores etc. Perhaps he had writers block or something, but he always says he has plenty in his "scrapyard."
Personally I thought he saw it as a way to open his eyes to other artists' way of playing and working/touring, although as far as I am aware he first met Chet in 1984 (pre-BIA).
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100% agree with all The visitor said
I thiik that if BIA had been the last DS album, the band would have been more "cult", and more "legendary" ;)
the OES come back gave a more "commercial" impression, and it's maybe because DS doesn't have the aura like other bands...IMHO
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There's a lot of really great stuff in OES. Perhaps putting it on as a CD I prefer it to BIA personally because it has a greater number of good tracks. Songs like WOL, OW and WW I can skip any day of the week, but OES has some great treasures and very few skippers - even My Parties is a good fun listen.
I do wish though that MK was more focussed on DS during that '88 period and then perhaps we could have had another great record. Maybe we'll never know the real reason for the five year hiatus...
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I know what you mean about OES - like I said very listenable, though personally I can't say I've every listened to My Parties and Planet of New Orleans more than a handful of times. In fact I really dislike them, but that's down to me. It sounds stupid, but they're just a bit too Americana orientated for me and really embody what is out of place for me in Dire Straits at this time. No offence to my US friends, but I mean that statement in the sense that MK is adopting a caricature that doesn't suit him, but one that he has taken on really since post Mandela.
On Every Street as a song is tremendous, as is Iron Hand and You and Your Friend, but all these songs are bittersweet and mourning the loss of something.
There's a key line in Your Latest Trick which takes on a more telling significance on the OES tour...."the bottles empty and there's nothing left".
The wikipedia article covers the BIA aftermath well:
1987
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I can understand My Parties being a love or loathe piece, but PONO!!! Fabulous song.
Thanks for the Wiki entry but I don't really get just what MK means in the quote; I mean, just how long a rest does one need if a band is too big? Did he want to lose some of the fan base in order to make the band less popular (and hence smaller) and think that that would make the music better? Doesn't necessarily ring true as far as I'm concerned. The ironic thing is, they came back for a bigger tour in '91/'92 and with a bigger band??? And your reason for the break Mark was... :hmm
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http://www.discogs.com/K-Wallis-B-And-The-Dark-Shades-Of-Night-Diamonds/master/265099
Just two songs really, so not really a big thing.
dmg, I completely agree with you about PONO , but I guess it is a matter of taste. And I agree with your views as well. Let me elaborate:
I remember reading in 1989 an article where MK stated that he doesn't even think of DS. If you see what he has been doing these 3 years, you will understand that he was both enjoying himself by working with artists he admired. Randy Newman, Joan Armatrading, Brendan Crocker, Eric Clapton (alas, only on tours), Chet Atkins (appears on three of Atkins records before N&N, two of them released during that period) Willy deVille and many many more! Actually he was never away, since after the end of BiA tour in 1987, he played again in 1988 and 1990 as DS, issued a fantastic compilation (my first DS record) and two soundtracks, produced Miracle and most of Land of dreams which are quite good and well, he had a personal life to catch up with!
In retrospect I do understand the point about changing musical directions, but the Americana-folk-country influences were right there from the first DS LP. Setting me up was remade as a country song both by Albert Lee (in his solo album in 1978-9 and on E clapton's live album) and Waylon Jennings, in 1983. WoL without the synth part is country song. SFA can be heard as a country ballad and many finger work on various songs bring country in mind (even Freeway flyer...) So if OES has 3 country songs (the bug, when it comes to you and How long) It had become about average, for a DS album.
I guess splitting DS really had to do with his getting older, and releasing OES, apart from contractual obligation, was about songs that were written during the 80ies that would have been better with the DS approach, rather than the Notting Hillbillies.
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Very interesting, has anybody heard these songs?
http://www.discogs.com/K-Wallis-B-And-The-Dark-Shades-Of-Night-Diamonds/master/265099
My favourite era too, imho the best version of BiA come from Mandela (Terry W.'s snare drums are phantastic).
Also don't forget about the Egham charity gig that was in 1989... (listened to it ages ago though).
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Very interesting, has anybody heard these songs?
http://www.discogs.com/K-Wallis-B-And-The-Dark-Shades-Of-Night-Diamonds/master/265099
My favourite era too, imho the best version of BiA come from Mandela (Terry W.'s snare drums are phantastic).
Also don't forget about the Egham charity gig that was in 1989... (listened to it ages ago though).
What happened boboDS ? I thought your favourite era was 83-84. ;)
K Wallis B, that's John Illsley, isn't it ? I think I once had that disc but I can't remember exactly how it sounded. Probably not good enough to remember. :think
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K Wallis B is John Illsley
I always considered that On Every Street was the first step in MK solo career. It reflects many thinks that will be his fingerprints in his solo career, new kind of sounds with more presence of country and some celtic flavours in the songs.
Also it reflects what MK
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So to try and make some conclusions here then: MK took a break to downsize DS because he felt it too big, did projects with other artists to enlarge his musical knowledge (perhaps) and learn other ways of working and came back from it all with a worse album (arguably), bigger band (of mostly hired session musicians) and then goes off on an even bigger tour than the last one! He should never have gone away!
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;D ;D ;D dmg!
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In retrospect I do understand the point about changing musical directions, but the Americana-folk-country influences were right there from the first DS LP. Setting me up was remade as a country song both by Albert Lee (in his solo album in 1978-9 and on E clapton's live album) and Waylon Jennings, in 1983. WoL without the synth part is country song. SFA can be heard as a country ballad and many finger work on various songs bring country in mind (even Freeway flyer...) So if OES has 3 country songs (the bug, when it comes to you and How long) It had become about average, for a DS album.
I think you are right the country influence has always been there, but in my mind it became the over-riding influence on OES when in previous albums it had been more balanced. Yes WoL stripped back is a country song - but on the album it's not stripped back, it's a pop song with an organ hook line that is its' character. And there are other influences on BIA too. For instance, MK talks about listening to a lot of music like reggae when recording the album, in one interview specifically referring to listening to a lot of Ijahman Levi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ijahman_Levi) at the time of recording the album.
I found a really good interview here, of MK being interviewed prior to the release of OES where he talks about the inbetween time between BIA and OES (http://www.odabasi.net/dsint3.htm). Later in the interview he talks about 'writing proper songs' - to me, conforming to a more rigid framework of songwriting. Perhaps for MK working with his heroes put him into their shadows...just look how much he refers to Chet in that interview.
Jbaent, I think you are right too - OES was probably the first step in MKs career, but I don't think he knew it at this point. Look at this part of the interview where he talks about the possibility of recording the OES tunes withour DS: -
"Oh yeah, I mean, I wouldn't write... if I'd written all those tunes and wanted to record 'em another way I would have done it, I mean no sweat at all, I would have just done it. But I find, I think, with all the other work that I do, hanging around with the Hillbilly thing, with Brendan, people like that, I get plenty of outlets, more than enough for a healthy boy. I'm not looking for anything else at the moment; I mean, certainly I wouldn't be *that* interested in doing solo records - it's more fun in a band anyway. You get all the best jokes. If you're on your own... I just wouldn't like to ride around the world, when it was time to play, with a bunch of hired guns." Ironic really,when you read this in hindsight, but there you go.
So for me, if they'd have cut an album fairly soon after getting back off the BIA tour, the energy that you hear and chemistry between the band at the Mandela would have made its way onto the record. As it is, as dmg identifies, by 1990 MK just seems to have got everything he didn't really want on the OES project. Too much time had passed.
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Hey Visitor, thanks for the links! Nice interview! IFirst time I saw it!
Proper songs! ;D I think that he means something in a SOS, TR, ToL vein, no conquering riffs and repeated refrains, like MFN or SFA, and WoL.
I like that his biggest reply is about a political action. Maybe reporters should do an interview for such matters and not his music. After all, he doesn't like to analyse his lyrics...
I don't know about hired guns. I always thought that DS and MK are the same thing. And in a way DS were hired guns. The steady members were never more than 4, more or less like the recent band.
The change in direction was mostly a matter of getting old (er) and going back to the roots, which are usually childhood memories revisited. The eternal return.
My first live DS record and at the same time my first bootleg vinyl, was the Mandella live. I simply adore it. I like the arrangements of the songs that are different from Alchemy but not overblown like OTN. Of course, if he was forced to record with DS during that times, (contractual obligations etc) the result might not have been as good as we imagine. Mostly because he didn't feel like it but I guess we will never know.
I also like the way he talks about his hits and his misses.
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Very interesting, has anybody heard these songs?
http://www.discogs.com/K-Wallis-B-And-The-Dark-Shades-Of-Night-Diamonds/master/265099
My favourite era too, imho the best version of BiA come from Mandela (Terry W.'s snare drums are phantastic).
Also don't forget about the Egham charity gig that was in 1989... (listened to it ages ago though).
What happened boboDS ? I thought your favourite era was 83-84. ;)
K Wallis B, that's John Illsley, isn't it ? I think I once had that disc but I can't remember exactly how it sounded. Probably not good enough to remember. :think
Hey Tunnel, you know me well :)
but considering that in 1988 there were just a very few real gigs with TW and with the best versions of BIA and WoL for me then I gotta love this era too.
K Wallis B?? What in the world? (Sounds like a rapper name.) I've never heard this name before, and I thought that I knew more about DS than an average person. So this is something completely different than Glass and Never told a soul then?
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K Wallis B was a single and maxisingle edited by John Illsley with two instrumental tracks, the musicians were John Illsley, Terry Williams, Phil Palmer, Chris White, Alan Clark and others.
Its easy to find in ebay.
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Also don't forget about the Egham charity gig that was in 1989... (listened to it ages ago though).
I don't have the recording of this charity gig right now with me so I can't check if MK introduces the band members, but who is playing 2nd guitar on this show?
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I asked once John Illsley, he can
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I adore every era to be honest. The sheer precision and skill that Knopfler brought to the OES tour was simply incredible. Granted I love the '88 era too but considering the break since '86 until the full tour of '91/2, it's no wonder the level of skill rose to another level. Knopfler for me was remarkable on the OES tour. Blew me away seeing the band live as a 16 year old too
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The first album is far more country influenced than OES - Setting me Up and Southbound are pure country songs.
The only real country track on OES is The Bug - which is also the only decent song on it.
Personally, I think OES is a terrible album - if it was representative of DS I would have never liked them.
It feels like MK couldn't really be bothered. I always like to think of Sailing to Philidelphia as the last DS album - it's a far more worthy epitaph.
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Even though I think that his guitar playing in OES tour was exceptional, better than ever, it is somehow unfair and not really comparable things with previous tours. Another time another man, a different guitar player. How Long is a country song. When it comes to you is a country song as well. And the Bug is of course a country song, but like the other 2 international singles were not good. In fact they looked more like a desperate attempt to copy the single success of the BiA WoL, MfN and SFA followed by Y&YF (and TTH) like the BiA single. It didn't work, in the expected extend.
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Even though I think that his guitar playing in OES tour was exceptional, better than ever, it is somehow unfair and not really comparable things with previous tours. Another time another man, a different guitar player. How Long is a country song. When it comes to you is a country song as well. And the Bug is of course a country song, but like the other 2 international singles were not good. In fact they looked more like a desperate attempt to copy the single success of the BiA WoL, MfN and SFA followed by Y&YF (and TTH) like the BiA single. It didn't work, in the expected extend.
perfectly said, they are all great stages. It's why I love Knopfler so much, seeing him evolve to current day. I get very excited for the future :)
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The only real country track on OES is The Bug - which is also the only decent song on it.
Eh, How Long maybe? WICTY also.
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The first album is far more country influenced than OES - Setting me Up and Southbound are pure country songs.
The only real country track on OES is The Bug - which is also the only decent song on it.
Personally, I think OES is a terrible album - if it was representative of DS I would have never liked them.
It feels like MK couldn't really be bothered. I always like to think of Sailing to Philidelphia as the last DS album - it's a far more worthy epitaph.
??? I like most of the songs on OES. The only two I'm not too keen on are My Parties and Ticket to Heaven. :)
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Some songs are hard to define strictly in terms of genre, but I'd say that The Bug is more rock 'n' roll while When it Comes to You is more blues than country. I love the feeling of the latter. Great guitar playing.
The great mysteries about the OES album are why Knopfler never recorded the fantastic I Think I Love You Too Much, and why he dismissed the great tunes Kingdom Come and Millionaire Blues but included My Parties.